Clive Efford
MP for Eltham and Chislehurst · Labour · United Kingdom
“Thank you for allowing me to take part in this statement, Madam Deputy Speaker, given that I was not here at the beginning—I was carrying out my duties elsewhere in the House. I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement. What is she likely to do in my part of south-east London for technical and vocational places?”
“I rise to speak to amendment 97 in my name, which would remove clause 10 from the Bill. Clause 10 gives powers to the Secretary of State to vary the proportion of public and private provision of health services if they consider that to do so is in the interests of the health service.”
“Labour’s 2024 plan to make work pay set out a welcome desire to bring more essential services back into public control—something that is welcomed by health workers across the country, because so far the “biggest wave of insourcing in a generation”, as was promised, has felt more like a trickle when it comes to the NHS.”
“The explanatory notes for the Bill say that this new flexibility is necessary “where there may otherwise be a breakdown in provision of a health service.” Can we imagine a situation where the Secretary of State has concerns about a health service and that an approach to assist a local provider would be rebuffed?”
“There are ample powers to enable the Secretary of State to intervene and resolve breakdowns in the provision of a health service. On clause 10, we must balance what it adds in those situations against its potential misuse by an ideologically driven Government that are determined to privatise our NHS.”
“It was a pleasure to join my right hon. Friend at Greenwich council’s development of 435 council properties in my constituency for the launch of the social and affordable housing programme. Some 70,000 homes are planned, and that is welcome and overdue.”
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“The Prime Minister said that his forthcoming anti-corruption summit will consider whether doping in sport should be made a criminal offence, but before anyone can be convicted, we have to have an effective testing regime in place. Despite the billions that go into sport through TV rights and sponsorship, precious little money is going to fund research into sports science, which would keep us ahead of the cheats. Will the Secretary of State join me in calling on the Prime Minister to discuss research funding at his summit, with the aim of setting up a funding body that is independent of sports governing bodies, so that we can have effective testing in place and stay ahead of the cheats?”
“Albert Kennedy Trust research has identified that 24% of the homeless youth population are LGBT. That is a disturbing figure, and the Government are planning to cut housing benefit for people under the age of 21. Does the Secretary of State think that the situation is going to get worse or better for those young people?”
“As my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) pointed out, we have had lots of honeyed words from the Government about how they are going to deal with this matter. However, is that not belied by the fact that they appointed someone as the executive chair of HMRC who thinks that taxation is “legalised extortion”? Does that not demonstrate the attitude that exists in this Administration?”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but he accused me of smearing this individual when I was actually quoting him word for word. He went on to say that tax is legitimised “only to the extent of the law.” If the bar is set too low, fewer people will pay tax and more will be able to avoid it. My point—I stick by it—is that this Government’s attitude towards tax avoidance is lax and their words are more honeyed than their actions.”
“My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. Would she care to reflect on performance in Greenwich, which has become one of the highest-performing education authorities in the country without the enforced academisation of a single primary school, and in which only three secondary schools have become academies? That performance has been achieved without enforced academisation. Parents in our borough are concerned about why they have been removed from the process and will not be consulted about changes to their schools.”
“The public would be more inclined to take the Prime Minister at his word when he says that he wants to clamp down on tax avoidance had his Government not appointed Edward Troup as executive chair of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs in 2012. This is someone who said: “Taxation is legalised extortion and is valid only to the extent of the law.” Will the Prime Minister say what source of money he got to pay Mr Troup? Does someone with those views belong in HMRC?”
“On the issue of community services, to which the hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (James Berry) referred, my local clinical commissioning group is facing a 20% cut in its funding. It has to make savings of £20 million—a fifth of its income—so services that are meant to prevent people from going into tertiary healthcare are being depleted. The Minister said that we should not alarm people, but how do we hold the Government to account if not by bringing these issues to this House for debate?”
“On the threatened closure of St Helier hospital, perhaps I have been in this place for longer than I should have been—[Hon. Members: “No!”] Thanks, I was hoping to get that response. I seem to remember that a Minister resigned in order to fight the campaign to defend St Helier hospital. He should have known what he was talking about, because he was a Health Minister at that time.”
“The CCG says that a number of the patients affected are from Lewisham, but they are not; they are actually from Greenwich, but they are considered Lewisham NHS patients. It is madness that they are to be penalised for living too close to the border with the neighbouring borough. That is just another failure in the planning of our health services. I hope the Minister will take that issue on board.”
“More than 20 years ago, the local district health authority closed the doctors’ surgery on that estate because it was a single practice, and it was moved in with another practice. That left the people there with no direct access to a GP surgery. A lot of the patients affected lived on the border, so they went to GP surgeries in Lewisham. Later, in partnership with the health authority, a local regeneration programme paid for a nurse-led practice on that estate to provide support to elderly people and families. As part of the cuts, the Source, on the Horn Park estate, now faces closure, which will yet again leave the community with no health services on that estate. That is completely unacceptable. People will have to travel a long distance to the nearest service if the Source is closed.”
“We have a right to be kept informed in such circumstances, because we are talking about a public service. Some 3,800 people are affected, most of whom are probably my constituents, and I would really like to be kept informed and know what is going on. I would be grateful if the Minister told whoever has failed to keep me informed to keep me informed from now on, and to take that point on board, so that in future other Members are kept informed of such serious matters in their constituencies. We can look at the consequences of the savings that my CCG has to make. I have been in my constituency for many years as a councillor and as an elected Member of Parliament—I am in my 30th year as an elected representative of one type or another in my local community. There is an estate in my constituency on the border with Lewisham.”
“I would like to hear why Members of Parliament are being overlooked in such circumstances, because I am elected to represent my constituents. The surgery has been closed. We are told that additional resources are being made available to a neighbouring surgery—I will not name it now, but I will talk to the Minister after the debate—but what does that mean? As I understand it, the surgery that has been closed has to turn its service around within six months. How does it do that if it has been closed? What does that mean for the patients? What services are being moved into the neighbouring surgery? There are all sorts of questions. Who is communicating with my constituents? Do I get a copy of any letters, so that I know what is going on? The Minister really should look into the situation.”
“I shall not take much longer, but I want to discuss a couple of local matters. I have been advised by a local councillors that one of my local GP practices was summarily closed over the weekend. There was no notice or advice; the Care Quality Commission went in and literally put a stop notice on the practice. There are 3,800 patients at that practice. I am the locally elected Member of Parliament; can the Minister tell me why no one has been in touch with me to explain what is going on? What on earth is going on? Why do I not know about it? Why has no one from the CCG been in touch with me? Why have I not had an explanation of what will happen to my constituents because the surgery has been closed? I am really angry about this. I accept that the Minister cannot answer me right now, but will she look into the matter?”
“Meanwhile, our NHS bill for nurses—in some circumstances nurses who were formerly employed in the NHS but have chosen to work as agency nurses—is growing. As my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes) said, the trusts could not recruit from overseas because nurses were not on the list of people whose professions allow them to come to the UK to work. That exacerbated the shortage and added to the demand for agency staff, and it is a major source of the problem. The lack of foresight and planning has led to this situation. Deficits are growing, and as I pointed out earlier, my local CCG is having to find savings of up to £1 in every £5 of its income to balance its budget. The knock-on effect on partnership working, for example on long-term care in the community, is frightening.”
“She said that there was a failure in planning for the number of nurses that the NHS was going to require, and that because not enough training places had been made available, not enough nurses were becoming available for employment in our hospital trusts, which in turn meant that the trusts were having to look to agency nurses. I have spoken to a number of nurses who live in my constituency. They point out that, taking into account the stress they are working under in the NHS and the pressure that they come under from management, it is easier for them to work for an agency. As an agency nurse, they can manage their time more effectively, because they are not under direct management and pressure to work extremely long hours, and earn more money, because of the shortages.”
“May I start by saying what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Buck? We have been colleagues here for nearly 20 years, and this is the first time I have spoken in a debate under your chairmanship. It really is a pleasure to see you in the Chair. I was not going to contribute, but as we have some time before 4.30 pm, I thought I should take a little time to discuss one or two issues relating to my constituency and the situation in London. Most of London’s hospital trusts are facing serious deficits, and this is an extremely worrying time for our national health service. When the London group of MPs met Dr Anne Rainsberry the other day, we asked her what the major sources of stress on our hospital trusts’ budgets are.”
“We need urgently to increase our number of armed officers so that we can rapidly respond to the sort of incident that tragically happened in Brussels. It would be a shame if that were delayed in any way by the need of police forces to take decisions about competing demands on their resources. Can the Home Secretary give an assurance that she is confident that the police have the resources they need to rapidly increase the number of armed police officers, as they are requesting?”
“During the Chancellor’s opening speech, we heard him say that the Government have legislated to make £12 billion-worth of savings within the welfare budget. That means that this £4.4 billion attack on PIP was in addition, and it was based neither on social justice nor on compassion. Does that not show that this Government are mean-minded and prepared to attack people who have disabilities? It is not necessary to make these cuts in welfare and they should guarantee that they are not going to return with this cut.”
“Is the Minister aware that home ownership among people under the age of 35 is down by more than a fifth—by 21%? What will a redefinition of affordable housing to homes under £450,000 do to address that problem?”
“T6. Rather than cutting support to people with disabilities, would it not be better for the Government to cut the housing benefit bill, which is up by £4.4 billion over the past four years? Is not that due to the Government’s failure to build enough houses, which is driving up rents and heavy reliance on the private rented sector? Is it not a disgrace that the Budget did not put any money into building social housing?”
“This Government said that they would eradicate the deficit in four years. Will the right hon. Gentleman tell me when that policy changed? How long does a long-term economic policy last for?”
“I am racking my brain trying to think of a previous occasion when the Leader of the House has agreed so readily with the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr Clegg). Surely the Leader of the House must accept that the Justice Secretary’s failure unequivocally to state that he had nothing to do with this is the reason he is answering this urgent question now. Should the Justice Secretary not either make such a statement or resign?”
“The Minister said in yesterday’s debate: “Openreach must do better.””
“Yet in the last quarter, the average speed in the UK has fallen by 3.7%. The coalition Government designed a fragmented and monopolistic superfast broadband roll-out that handed £1.7 billion of taxpayers’ money to one company to roll out broadband: BT. Four years later, many homes are still waiting. Incredibly, the Government have missed their targets on several occasions. In a Westminster Hall debate yesterday, the Minister raised several of his own frustrations with the service. We have debated broadband on 45 occasions in the past five years. The Minister has answered questions on the subject at every Culture, Media and Sport questions I can recall—a total of 63 times in the past five years. There has been a constant barrage of attacks from Members on both sides of the House about the quality of the service.”
“If, as the impact assessment shows, something is worth £17 billion to the economy, surely it is a false economy for the Government not to ensure that it is rolled out properly. The European Commission set a target of universal broadband by 2013, yet we are still not there. When the Labour Government left office in 2010, they left behind a fully funded plan for basic broadband to be delivered to all within two years, and superfast broadband to 90% by 2017. The remaining 10% would have been covered by mobile broadband. We are falling further and further behind our competitors. Australia, a huge landmass, is aiming for 100 megabits per second for 93% of premises by 2021; South Korea will have 1 gigabit by 2017; and Ireland has recently increased its average broadband speed by 10%.”
“It goes on to explain how better infrastructure increases productivity by “supporting the development of new, more efficient, business models, enabling business process re-engineering to improve the efficiency and management of labour intensive jobs, and enabling increased international trade and collaborative innovation”. Broadband also allows more people to work, or to work in different ways. The failure to roll out broadband is increasing the problems for inner cities in the face of demands for public services and more infrastructure. A fully rolled out broadband infrastructure would mean that businesses could relocate, or more readily remain in rural areas to conduct their business.”
“Because BT has a monopoly in his area, it does not respond readily to his constituents’ concerns. The Federation of Small Businesses has referred to broadband as the fourth utility, as have many Members today. As broadband becomes ubiquitous and ever more vital for doing business, it becomes more important that businesses can access broadband. It is vital for all businesses, not just those in the digital economy. It is ludicrous that the Government have not been able to provide what has become the fourth utility for so many people. The Government’s own broadband impact assessment states: “It is now widely accepted that the availability and adoption of affordable broadband plays an important role in increasing productivity”, and that access to faster broadband is worth £17 billion to the economy.”
“Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Chris Davies) highlighted the problems for rural people and called for a truly national roll-out. The hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) said that by definition the hardest-to-reach areas are rural, and underlined that by discussing the ignominy of companies having to pay BT to get an explanation of BT’s failure so that they can get compensation. That is hard to stomach for small businesses. The hon. Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke (Jack Lopresti) intervened to underline how arrogant and aloof BT is when it comes to the needs of people who are not receiving broadband, especially to businesses. That was also underlined by the hon. Member for Angus (Mike Weir), who discussed BT’s failure to carry out repairs.”
“That is taking things to an extraordinary degree, but it shows the lack of service, particularly for people in rural areas, although I stress that the problems are not just in rural areas. The hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill) illustrated very eloquently the chaos suffered by one business in her constituency. When the line was reallocated, the business lost its BT broadband connection. When it came back, the speed was reduced and the gentleman was forced to travel 25 miles to another office. The impact of something like that on a small business is difficult to measure. The hon. Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon Henderson) read out a catalogue of failures over a long timeline. It is difficult to understand how BT can be so incompetent and fail in its duties so frequently. The hon.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Ms Ryan. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) on securing yet another debate on broadband. I am sure that the Minister needs no notes to respond to these debates. We heard from a number of Members about the problems in their constituencies. In an intervention, the right hon. Member for Ashford (Damian Green) read out a response that suggested BT was trying to distance itself from Openreach, which is incredible. The hon. Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) said that his constituents had dug their own channel in an effort to expedite the situation themselves.”
“Well, there must be an enormous number of problems because quite a few have been mentioned today that he has not got around to. He went on: “Why has Openreach not put in place a hit squad to deal with some of the more prominent complaints that come from MPs?”—”
“I shall just finish my point. The Minister has been in post for nearly six years. Why, when he is answering a debate that he has responded to on 45 previous occasions, is he still asking why Openreach has not put in place a hit squad to deal with MPs’ complaints? Perhaps the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds is going to tell us.”
“When a housing development is being put together, one would have thought it was the most obvious thing in the world that the people buying the houses are likely to be relatively young and likely to have children, and therefore likely to want, in this day and age, fast broadband connections. However, it took me a year to 18 months to bang together the heads of BT and the house builders to get an agreement.””
“Again, the hon. Lady very eloquently illustrates one of the problems that we have with Openreach. The Minister gave his own example: “I dealt with a factory that had been built to be ready to open specifically on the basis of when Openreach was going to connect it, but Openreach was already a year behind schedule. That cost that factory many tens of thousands of pounds. It continues to baffle me why it cannot get its act together and sort out these prominent problems.” It is beginning to baffle us why he cannot sort out these problems with Openreach. “I had to intervene on new builds.”
“I sincerely hope you will. If it takes the Minister 18 months, imagine what it is like for constituency MPs. The Minister was obviously in full flow, because he threw in one or two other items: “I, for one, would love them to get rid of this landline rental charge that they put on our bills. They put on their adverts a nice, big, juicy low price for broadband, and then an asterisk and a line saying, ‘By the way, you’ll have to pay £25 a month for landline rental.’” Is that a statement of policy, or just the Minister throwing something into the air?”
“Will the Minister tell us how he intends to ensure that that is achieved? How long does he think it will take for the market to become more competitive? What will he do if it does not work? Are all the measures still subject to further consultation and debate? Ofcom will need the Government’s political cover to make that happen, but the Secretary of State’s mind is currently elsewhere. Will the Minister assure us that addressing the issues that hon. Members raised this afternoon is a priority for him and his Department?”
“It is good news that broadband, landline and mobile customers will automatically receive refunds for any loss or reduction in service, which hon. Members have spoken about today. Openreach will be subject to tougher minimum requirements to repair those faults and install new lines more quickly. As hon. Members indicated, that is very welcome indeed. What will the Minister do if those proposals are not met? How will he ensure that those targets are achieved? For example, Openreach might decide to fix easier and quicker faults at the expense of some of the ones that have been described today. Ofcom will introduce performance tables on quality of service to identify the best and worst operators on a range of performance measures so customers can shop around in confidence.”
“The Committee pointed out in its 2015 report on rural broadband that it is by no means certain that the Government will even meet the phase 2 target. BT let the cat out of the bag: the Government are really behind the times. Let me finish by asking the Minister a few questions. Two weeks ago, we cautiously welcomed Ofcom’s strategic review of digital communications—a plan for sorting out the mess created by six years of failed policy—as a step in the right direction. It mainly proposed two things: allowing rivals to access BT’s ducts and poles to increase competition, and addressing the issues relating to service standards. Ofcom will introduce automatic compensation for customers and businesses when things go wrong.”
“He is the Minister, so he really should not put such things into speeches if he does not intend to deliver them. The Minister derided the previous Labour Government’s commitment to provide 2 megabits per second by 2012, but the Government are not delivering that minimum standard. Superfast broadband is 24 megabits per second, but the Government have moved the goalposts several times on it. It was 90% by the end of 2015; then it was 90% by the end of 2016; then it was 95% by the end of 2016; and now it is 95% by the end of 2017. When the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs was conducting an investigation into rural broadband, BT told it: “it is there or thereabouts. It may end up being in 2018”.”
“The hon. Gentleman is the Minister. If he wants to dodge the arguments by posing as an Opposition Member, fine, but that is to run up the white flag and admit defeat. The Minister said: “I hope that the Advertising Standards Authority will crack down on how providers advertise their speeds. At the moment, if only 10% of customers are receiving the advertised speed, in the eyes of the ASA that is supposed to be okay. I totally accept that the ASA does a good job—it is a great example of self-regulation—but it really needs to go further on that. In my humble opinion, at least 75% of people should be getting the speeds that the broadband providers are advertising.” —[ Official Report, 9 March 2016; Vol. 607, c. 139-140WH.] Is that another policy statement?”
“Given that the Government have provided so much money to BT Openreach, will the Minister accept that the proper checks and balances were not put in place to ensure that it delivered on its contractual obligations?”
“As someone who has run his own independent retail business, may I tell the Minister that many independent traders have few extra resources? They will be forced to open to compete with the very large stores. What about the lifestyle of those people who would end up working seven days a week in order to try to keep their businesses running?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In response to a previous intervention, the Minister said that my local authority, Greenwich, had asked for this power to be passed to it. That was not correct. My local authority said that if the change is made, it should come to the local authority, not the Mayor of London or the Greater London Authority. How do we get the Government to put the record straight?”
“If customers get a better deal down the road, they simply change supermarkets. No passion or allegiance is involved; they do not wrap a supermarket scarf around their neck when they shop. The link between a fan and a football club, however, lasts a lifetime. Some are lucky enough to support clubs that frequently play in the top flight, while some of us have heavier crosses to bear. I am a Millwall season ticket holder and, believe me, it is a heavy cross to bear at times.”
“It is the fans who are passionate about their clubs who fill the stadiums week in, week out and create the atmosphere that makes the package—for the premier league, in particular—so attractive to sell around the world. Owners who turn their backs on that tradition will do so to the detriment of their football clubs. That is why it is so important that today we are recognising the importance of the role of fans in sustaining football clubs, maintaining these traditional links, and making sure that they are not lost as clubs begin to become more profit-making and more attractive to people who are not steeped in the traditions and the history of the clubs that they are attempting to buy, or do buy. Fans are increasingly looked on as customers and as no different from someone who shops at a supermarket.”
“There is still debt in the championship, but the TV deals that have been done for the premier league have almost completely wiped out the debt there, and football clubs are looked on much more as money-making businesses. Those clubs’ links to the communities in which they are based are therefore even more important than they have been in the past. These people sweeping in on their private jets wanting to buy football clubs are not looking at the communities that have sustained those clubs through generations over many years, through the good times and the bad times, and the very strong links that they have with the communities in which they are based. It is the fans who anchor the clubs in that tradition. It is the fans from those communities who have sustained those clubs over many years.”
“If that were to happen regularly within a football league, the special nature of those international clashes and the excitement of those tournaments would be lost. Those clubs would be making a serious mistake if they moved away into a super-league. Football is no longer looked on as a way of wealthy business people having an interest aside from their business by running a football club. It has often been said in the past, “If you want to make £1 million out of football, buy a football club for £4 million”, because it has not been a way of making money; owners of football clubs have invested in them and seldom taken money out. That has completely changed. Looking back at the finances of the premier league, and, to some degree, the championship only a few years ago, there was enormous debt.”
“If clubs were foolish enough to move into such a super-league, I would be inclined to say to the FA, “Tell those sides ‘Good riddance.’ Close the doors to the FA cup to them and let them go, and let’s continue to run our football league and have the confidence in it to create new super-clubs.” There is something special about the English football league. People around the world enjoy watching it. They enjoy the atmosphere created by the fans, which is reflected in the football played on the pitches that makes it a product that people around the world so much want to watch. There is something special when one of our top clubs such as Arsenal or Manchester United is drawn against one of the big European football clubs such as Real Madrid, Barcelona or Borussia Dortmund.”
“Even the highest debating and decision-making chambers of football such as FIFA have to remember the fans who make the game so special. The way in which football is part of the communities where the football clubs are based is so important to the beating heart of football. Everyone who is involved in making decisions in the game must remember that. Fans are becoming increasingly important because big business is moving into our football clubs in a way that it never has before. We are now hearing talk, yet again, of a breakaway league of all the top clubs across Europe.”
“Investigations are going on that could determine whether the decisions awarding those tournaments were sound, and it is far too previous to conclude that the bids will not be rerun. With the FIFA reforms, we are supposed to be drawing a line over what has gone on in football, yet the two World cups coming up in 2018 and 2022 are mired in the history of what has gone on at FIFA; it is difficult to see the changes as a result of a new broom and to think that the organisation is completely clean of what has gone on in the past. I wish Mr Infantino all the best with his changes and I am sure that we will return to the FIFA issue. As Mr Infantino said at his press conference, it is the fans and the game itself that are most important.”