Clive Efford
MP for Eltham and Chislehurst · Labour · United Kingdom
“Thank you for allowing me to take part in this statement, Madam Deputy Speaker, given that I was not here at the beginning—I was carrying out my duties elsewhere in the House. I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement. What is she likely to do in my part of south-east London for technical and vocational places?”
“I rise to speak to amendment 97 in my name, which would remove clause 10 from the Bill. Clause 10 gives powers to the Secretary of State to vary the proportion of public and private provision of health services if they consider that to do so is in the interests of the health service.”
“Labour’s 2024 plan to make work pay set out a welcome desire to bring more essential services back into public control—something that is welcomed by health workers across the country, because so far the “biggest wave of insourcing in a generation”, as was promised, has felt more like a trickle when it comes to the NHS.”
“The explanatory notes for the Bill say that this new flexibility is necessary “where there may otherwise be a breakdown in provision of a health service.” Can we imagine a situation where the Secretary of State has concerns about a health service and that an approach to assist a local provider would be rebuffed?”
“There are ample powers to enable the Secretary of State to intervene and resolve breakdowns in the provision of a health service. On clause 10, we must balance what it adds in those situations against its potential misuse by an ideologically driven Government that are determined to privatise our NHS.”
“It was a pleasure to join my right hon. Friend at Greenwich council’s development of 435 council properties in my constituency for the launch of the social and affordable housing programme. Some 70,000 homes are planned, and that is welcome and overdue.”
The complete record
Every one of 3,378 lines we hold for Clive Efford, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 58 of 68.
“Such an approach would bring about the stated objective of the Department, which is to eradicate the use of HFCs. That view still applies today. Following the presentation of my Bill last year, my hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs wrote a letter to the EIA on 11 November in which he accepted that supermarkets were the “big emitters” and that “reducing their emissions is a key focus of Defra’s work to reduce HFC emissions overall.” He went on to say that in the short term the Government anticipate that “with the comprehensive EU and GB regulatory framework now fully in force, significant reductions”— in the use of HFCs— “will be achieved in the next few years.” I am sorry to say that there is little evidence that that is moving companies in the right direction.”
“Its report was prompted by the announcement by a group of large supermarkets that they intend to move away from the use of HFCs. The EIA carried out its survey to monitor progress in August 2008. Its conclusions were not encouraging—the best-performing supermarket succeeded in reducing its HFC use in only three out of 620 stores. The figures for other supermarkets were just four out of 1,700 stores and one out of 2,250 stores. I shall not name and shame the supermarkets involved, because the response in this area has been so mixed. The stated view from many in the industry is that regulation in this area would create the confidence across the industry to plan ahead, knowing that the supermarkets are all operating within the same framework.”
“The potential impact of gases on global warming is averaged over 100 years, which reflects the extraordinarily long time that gases responsible for global warming remain in the atmosphere and add to the problem. HFCs do not last for 100 years. The evidence is that global warming is accelerating. Prompt action now to remove gases that are 4,000 times more harmful than carbon dioxide and do not linger as long as other harmful gases has the attraction of buying much-needed time for other greenhouse gas mitigating measures to take effect. I hope the Minister will accept that the time to act is now. I presented my Bill last year in response to a report from the Environmental Investigation Agency on the use of hydrofluorocarbons in supermarket refrigeration units. I commend the agency on its work.”
“The most common gas used in supermarket refrigeration, HFC-404A, is 3,800 times more harmful than carbon dioxide. It is predicted that by 2020 HFC emissions will be equivalent to between 2 billion and 2.6 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide, approximately four times the level of the United Kingdom’s annual greenhouse gas emissions. In 2005, stationary refrigeration units were the biggest source of F-gas emissions in the UK, and within that total, supermarkets account for more than half the emissions. Phasing out the HFCs in supermarkets has the potential to save more than 175 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalence between now and 2050. That is equivalent to a quarter of the UK’s annual carbon dioxide emissions.”
“Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last year, I presented a similar Bill in an attempt to persuade the Government to regulate for the complete phasing out of HFCs in large supermarkets. Today, I shall attempt to impress on them three facts which I hope will convince them that it is time to act. HFCs are extremely harmful in terms of global warming and represent a growing proportion of our emissions. There is little to suggest that current European Union and United Kingdom regulation in the field has encouraged large retailers to speed up the process of eradicating the use of HFCs in their stores, and there is nothing in EU regulation to prevent the Government from regulating in this regard. According to Greenpeace, HFCs can be up to 20,000 times more damaging in terms of global warming than carbon dioxide.”
“In outer south-east London, when the proposals in the “A picture of health” programme were first put forward in October 2007, we were told that they had come from a conference of clinicians, doctors, nurses and midwives who had got together and come up with them. It was on that basis that they were supported. They were reviewed by Dr. George Alberti, who gave them his bill of health, for want of a better expression. The hon. Gentleman says that he is not in favour of top-down planning for our local NHS services, but if our local clinicians have drawn up the proposals, what is the basis of his objections?”
“The hon. Gentleman surely cannot base his argument entirely on one anonymous e-mail that he claims to be a leak. We have all had concerns about the proposals in south-east London, but they were put forward in the autumn of 2007 as a result of a conference held by clinicians—doctors, nurses and midwives. They came up with them and it was on that basis that NHS London decided to move forward on the proposals, which were also reviewed by Professor Alberti on a clinical basis. On what does the hon. Gentleman base his argument that the proposals have nothing to do with local practitioners or local decision making?”
“On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. In response to the rebuke that you just gave to me, I want to tell you that I was reading something that had just been pointed out to me. The Evening Standard seems to have a report on today’s debate that is in the past tense in a newspaper that was printed before the debate took place.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for setting out how the consultation took place. She, like me, will have worn out her shoes campaigning against many Tory cuts in the NHS. It is worth reminding the House that in the period between 1979 and 1997, 10 hospitals were closed in Greenwich. In comparison, a brand new community hospital is being opened in the heart of my constituency in 2011.”
“May we have an urgent debate on matters that are before the Electoral Commission? There is concern that some issues of significant public interest—the activities of people such as Lord Ashcroft in trying to influence the general election, and the illegal use of foreign money to finance political parties—might not be reported on until after the general election. A debate would give us an opportunity to stress to the Electoral Commission that these matters are in the public interest and should be reported on before the general election.”
“The document was drawn up following a meeting at which virtually every leading exponent of housing policy for the Tories was present. The leader of the Conservatives has failed to distance himself from it and to deny that it is Conservative party policy. On behalf of the tenants in my borough, I want to hear from the Minister today that they will have secure tenancies under a future Labour Government, that we will not go down the path of the folly of moving towards market rents and impoverishing 8 million tenants up and down the country and that we will make that a policy in the next general election and that tenants will hear it loud and clear.”
“During a debate last week in the Greenwich council chamber, Tory councillors challenged the Labour party on scaremongering in respect of council tenants, yet all they were able to say was, “This is not the policy of Greenwich Conservatives.” They were not able to say that the policy is not national Conservative party policy. We have a group of Conservatives in Greenwich who are distancing themselves from their national party and their leader because they are so embarrassed by the policy. In Greenwich, tenants have the third lowest rents in London—the average is around £80—but they would nearly triple to £225 if we were to impose market rents. It is not some maverick group of Conservatives that has come up with the policies, but the leader of the Conservatives’ innovation unit.”
“I draw attention to the two letters from the Minister for Housing, who wrote to the Leader of the Opposition, the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron), in July and again in September, asking him to distance himself from the policy and to state that it is not national Conservative party policy. The only response that we have had from him so far came during a visit to Hammersmith and Fulham on 5 January, when he stated: “I believe in strong local government. It’s not my job to run Hammersmith and Fulham but when I look at this borough I’m very proud of what they have done.” That is the only response to a challenge to distance himself from a policy that says to 8 million tenants up and down the country that they face market rents and losing their secure tenancies.”
“There is no lack of ambition to be a home owner and to make that choice; the issue is about choosing whether to remain a tenant or move on. That opportunity should be there for future generations, and I think that all parties have failed in that endeavour in the past, so I am delighted that that has changed. The Prime Minister has clearly indicated that he wants more social housing and has put the money in to make that happen. It is essential that that continues. We have seen the documents from Hammersmith and Fulham council, and I will focus on that issue briefly to allow other Members to speak. We have been highlighting to council tenants in my constituency the threat that the document from Localis poses. It would take away secure tenancies and move rents to market levels. Tenants are extremely alarmed by that policy.”
“When I talk to people in my constituency, or to those in some of the larger houses who are now home owners, I find that the vast majority of them started out in social rented accommodation when they were young, either as family members or as tenants themselves, so the idea that being in socially rented accommodation is a dead end and is somehow a barrack of the poor, as it is referred to in some Conservative quarters, is completely wrong. The housing market has changed and we will no longer see 100 per cent. mortgages, or even 125 per cent. mortgages, on the value of properties, so it will be even more essential that we have affordable rented accommodation for people to live in while they are saving the deposit that they will need to buy a house, which will take a considerable time in this housing market.”
“It is a pleasure to take part in the debate under your chairmanship, Mrs. Humble. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush (Mr. Slaughter) on securing this important debate. To allow other Members to speak, I will curtail my comments and not give them the benefit of my full contribution. My hon. Friend said that he welcomes the change in the Government’s approach to social housing, as do I. Some of us have been campaigning on the need to get local authorities building houses again for a long time. The fact that we are investing £300 million in building council housing again and starting the biggest building programme for 20 years is extremely welcome. The economic downturn and its impact on the housing market make social housing even more important for many of our constituents.”
“There was no warning for the people waiting on the platform that there would be no opportunity for them to get on the trains. The whole episode smacked of panic, and Southeastern’s explanation for what happened between 6 and 8 January was not satisfactory.”
“We are all affected, even on the shortest of journeys, because such incidents may cause severe delays. The recent cold weather exposed the lack of resilience in our rail services, particularly on 6, 7 and 8 January, when services at peak times were reduced to two trains an hour, and the rail service closed down at 8 o’clock in the evening. Southeastern’s response did not reflect customers’ experience, and certainly not my experience as one of its customers. I was one of the passengers at Eltham station who were left waiting in the freezing cold with no information about what was happening, only to see one train come in so overcrowded that only a few people could force their way on to it from a packed platform. The next train was so packed that it did not even stop.”
“I applied for this debate to highlight the need to increase capacity on our road transport network in south-east London, and our passenger transport network. I acknowledge that there have been some improvements—too many for me to go through in this short debate—but recent events have highlighted that the system teeters on the edge of collapse daily due to demand. The slightest defect in the system has enormous consequences for commuters in delays and congestion. During the period leading up to Christmas, several events on the roads leading to and in the Blackwall tunnel highlighted the problem. Each event resulted in gridlock for south-east and east London. The impact on the economy and the lives of thousands of people in that area is impossible to calculate.”
“I should add in response to the intervention from the hon. Member for Castle Point (Bob Spink) that for a considerable time we have been promised 12-car trains on Southeastern. I have a simple question: when will they arrive? They have been promised, they are essential to increase capacity, and we need a date for when they will be delivered. The main commute for my constituents has always been from south-east London to central London, and that will continue to be so, but as docklands, the Olympic park, Stratford and other developments in the east Thames corridor develop, more and more of my constituents will want to go directly north across the river.”
“I accept that, and the Government have attempted to do just that. The purpose of this debate is to urge the Minister in a friendly way along that route. I do not accept Southeastern's argument, and the penalties to prevent train operators behaving in that way are not sufficiently severe. Its response to the cold spell suggested that it had not planned for it, and it was not prepared to make any effort to deal with it. The Government’s response should be a severe penalty. The Oyster pay-as-you-go system was introduced in January, and was welcome. It streamlines ticketing between London transport and mainline rail services, but there is a surcharge for using it on Southeastern’s trains, which is not paid on other parts of the network that had pay-as-you-go before January. That is unacceptable, and the Government should address the matter.”
“For many years, I have advocated the use of our urban motorways as corridors to introduce light rail, hence my suggestion that we could bring the DLR to Eltham via the A102 and A2 and use the land adjacent to it or even above it for that purpose. We need to deal with congestion on our roads and overcrowding on our trains. The expansion in capacity is essential, but building roads alone will not be the solution. We also need to expand our public transport network. The biggest cost in all this is to do nothing.”
“By introducing faster transport links such as those along our urban motorways, we can encourage more people on to public transport. Hard-shoulder running on our motorways to provide bus lanes is another issue. The M6 scheme has proved very successful at relieving congestion when the road is heavily congested. We could consider providing bus lanes on our urban motorways where appropriate. Park-and-ride schemes around our major cities are something that we have not developed, but if we really want to reduce congestion on our motorways, we, and the Mayor, should look at proposals for car parking around routes such as the M25 and for bringing people in on our motorway networks. Perhaps it would be a good use of the bendy bus to bring it along those motorways.”
“There are certain things that we need to consider. For instance, in relation to some of our urban motorway networks, we need to assess how we use the space and use motorways to provide more rapid transport networks. One issue is guided buses or express bus routes. I have been successful in lobbying TfL to introduce the 132 bus from Eltham to North Greenwich, which is a direct bus route that goes down the motorway. The bus gets caught in traffic jams at certain times, but it has been an enormous success. It has opened up a new commuter route for people who want to travel into London via London transport systems or into the docklands. The bus route is now about 15 minutes from Eltham, whereas the previous route took 45 minutes because it was such a circuitous journey.”
“As I have already said, that station is now a major transport interchange. Similarly, there was the Crossrail row over Woolwich. The idea that the line would go under Woolwich but that there would not be a station was ridiculous. It is a major transport hub for south-east London, and we won the argument to force people to recognise the improvements. The first two of those schemes are now among the busiest stations on those networks, and it is unthinkable that we would not have had them. That highlights some flaws in how we assess the value of investing money in such schemes. Let me make one or two suggestions. We need to think the unthinkable. We need to think about things that until now have not been considered viable or have been considered slightly off the beaten track, if hon. Members will excuse the pun.”
“First, when the docklands light railway was going to Lewisham, there was no plan to have a station at the Cutty Sark location. Greenwich town centre is the biggest tourist destination in London outside central London. Today, the idea of not having a DLR station at the Cutty Sark is frankly ridiculous, but that is what was planned. Thanks to the council taking on the Government and putting in its own resources, we got the station. There was a similar story with the Jubilee line. One could not imagine having no Jubilee line station for the O 2 today—I do not know how most people would have got there on the night of the millennium celebrations if we did not have the Jubilee line. Again, that is thanks to local politicians, who forced the Government of the day to accept that it was necessary to have a station at North Greenwich.”
“When the infrastructure is built, and if it is possible to impose a toll for people who are travelling long distances, I would like to see local people favoured and either not charged or charged a minimum amount. Charges for road space might be necessary, but figures show that people will make the switch if we improve our public transport network. We have had experience of that in Greenwich, and before I conclude, I want to point out to the Minister that we need to review the way in which we assess the cost benefits of major schemes. There are three examples from Greenwich in which we have had to take on the Government of the day—including this Government over Crossrail—to get ourselves included in major infrastructure projects.”
“However, if one looks at the figures before 2002, when the congestion charge was introduced, we see that the reduction in the number of cars entering central London was greater before the congestion charge than it was after its introduction. The number went from 155,000 to 105,000 cars per day during the peak period of 7 am to 10 am between 1993 and 2002, while from 2002 to 2006, it went down to 78,000, which indicates that where public transport is available, reliable and efficient, people will make that choice, even without the stick of the congestion charge. We can achieve a modal shift. We need to invest more in public transport and not focus so much on the necessity of charges, although they may be necessary in certain places.”
“I caution against the grand project of building huge new infrastructures such as new river crossings in new locations. Inevitably, that will create new problems and suck in more resources to deal with those problems. We need to look at the existing road network and make maximum use of the space that we have. Where we identify pinch points, such as the Blackwall tunnel, we should deal with them and try to make efficient use of our resources. We must ask how we are going to contain growth. The figures in the Transport for London travel report of 2007 show some remarkable facts. For instance, the number of cars entering central London in 1993 was 155,000 per day. That is now down to 78,000—almost half.”
“However, people desire to use their car for journeys to and from the point of embarkation on public transport, and that is what we have failed to facilitate in the past. The folly of the current Mayor is that he sees the car as an issue of human rights and freedom of choice, and he is blinkered to the inevitable impact that increasing congestion will have. If we, and the Mayor, do not start to plan to deal with these problems now, we will look with envy on the days of the relative high speed of the horse and cart. We must accept that our road space is finite, and whether we believe that global warming is fact or fiction—and I believe that it is a fact—we will suffer the consequences of congestion. That is why I urge us to deal with the issue where the problems occur.”
“However, I suggest that new technology will change the argument about the environmental and global warming potential of vehicles over the next generation, and increasingly, congestion will become the issue that we want to address because of its impact on people and businesses. Because of the environmental consequences, it is not fashionable to suggest that we build and expand our road network. However, as we see new technologies such as hydrogen cell, hybrid and electric vehicles on our roads, our attention will increasingly be drawn to dealing with the issue of congestion as the environmental impacts reduce. We must begin to plan for that situation. We have made mistakes in the past. It is fair to say that the previous Mayor was too anti-car and tried to design the car out of all commuter journeys to and from work.”
“London’s congestion is forecast to increase by 30 per cent. However, over the same period, congestion on highways authority trunk roads is forecast to increase by 37 per cent. My constituency of Eltham is bisected by the A2 and the A20, and we will need to address the problems of congestion and pollution associated with that. For my constituency, “business as usual” is not acceptable because the developments that are taking place along the east Thames corridor and in the Kent area will exacerbate the problems that are already experienced. Daily congestion is an environmental nightmare.”
“Unfortunately, the local Tories have decided that they are opposed to the plans, which is rather short-sighted, and it has prompted the Green party to say that we should not have the DLR, but we should have the Jubilee line. I would not dismiss either, but I am happy that the debate has started. Most significantly—joking aside—I am delighted that Greenwich council has decided to put a substantial amount of money into a feasibility study to look at the possibility of bringing the DLR to Eltham. That welcome step has a lot of support from local people. Whatever the outcome, whether it is my proposal or something else that comes out of the discussion, we cannot ignore this issue. Doing nothing is not an option. The Department for Transport forecasts that road traffic will grow by about 32 per cent. between 2006 and 2025.”
“The third point—which is probably the most important for my constituents—is that once the docklands light railway reaches North Greenwich, it would be more feasible and cost effective to bring it along the A102 and A2 to places such as Eltham, than it would be to cut a tunnel through Shooters hill from the spur at Woolwich town centre. I believe that that has been looked into, but it may have been dismissed. Those are three specific proposals: the Silvertown link, the DLR to North Greenwich, and the DLR to Eltham. I have had some success with the proposals as they have generated discussion locally, which was part of the objective.”
“North Greenwich is developing as a transport hub and interchange for south-east London, and the natural progression for that development would be to bring the docklands light railway to north Greenwich. I have responded to the Mayor with three specific proposals, on which I consulted many constituents. More than 700 have indicated their support for my proposals, and the number is growing. First and foremost, we need to deal with the congestion at the Blackwall tunnel by building the Silvertown link. Secondly, that Silvertown link should include a facility for the docklands light railway to come to North Greenwich station.”
“The projected increases in jobs and population in the Thames Gateway will increase the problem of highway congestion and road network resilience at river crossings further. The Mayor is therefore supportive of investigating options for road based river crossings in east London as part of a package of transport improvements.” Recommendation 39 in the consultation is to develop the Silvertown link between the north Greenwich peninsula and Silvertown in docklands. I have responded to the Mayor’s consultation in support of that proposal, but urged that any crossing should not be just a road crossing. It is not sufficient just to build road capacity without expanding public transport capacity. It would be folly to build just a road, without including capacity to bring the docklands light railway to north Greenwich.”
“Access to these growing destinations from southeast London can be difficult due to the barrier effect of the Thames.” He continued in paragraph 405: “However, there are still few road crossings of the Thames in east London, causing difficulties for those who cannot use public transport for their journey, and in particular business journeys. Drivers are heavily dependent on the congested Blackwall and Rotherhithe tunnels, each of which have restrictions on the size of vehicle which can use them, and the Woolwich Ferry. Beyond London, the Dartford crossing, forming part of the M25 orbital motorway, also regularly operates at, or close to, capacity. There is little resilience in the event of an incident at one of these crossings, and local businesses, particularly in southeast London, suffer from this unreliability.”
“I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on bringing south-west London into the debate. I echo his sentiments on wanting expanded public transport options. The Mayor of London recently held a consultation on a transport plan for London, to which I responded, and I want to highlight a couple of points that he made in his consultation document. In chapter 5, paragraph 403, he said: “As the economy of east London has changed, developments such as Canary Wharf, ExCel and The 02 have increased the demand for travel across the river significantly. Many of the large new economic drivers for London are located in east London, with the majority of these lying north of the river, such as the Olympic Park and adjacent Stratford City development, Canary Wharf, ExCel and City Airport.”
“I accept that all the major investments that the Minister has mentioned are in inner south-east London, but although the East London line has been called the London orbital route, unfortunately my constituency is outside its orbit.”
“Has my hon. Friend had a chance to see the Environmental Investigation Agency report, published on Monday, into the use of hydroflurocarbons in supermarkets, which demonstrates that their use is not being cut as much as we would like? They are 4,000 times more potent in terms of global warming than carbon dioxide—the equivalent in emissions of 5.6 billion plastic bags. May I urge my hon. Friend to legislate to create a level playing field, in order to reduce the use of these gases in supermarket refrigeration?”
“May we have a debate on child protection procedures in England and Wales? I do not know whether my right hon. and learned Friend has seen the report published today by Bournemouth university, but it says that violent deaths of young children have decreased by 40 per cent. since 1974, meaning that they have decreased consistently under all Governments. Such a debate would serve to prevent people from coming to the House with outrageous claims about “broken Britain”, made on the back of the tragic deaths of young people, and it would give us an opportunity to focus on an important field of social care, celebrate some of the work that is being done, and find out where improvements can be made.”
“My right hon. Friend has come under severe attack for not cutting the deficit fast enough or hard enough, but those who made those calls in this House seem to agree with him now. Does he think that that is what is meant by the statement that it is “a year for change” on the airbrushed Conservative poster?”
“The public’s response to soldiers returning from conflicts has demonstrated that they want our armed forces and the members of them to be held in the highest regard. Will my right hon. Friend ensure that part of the review is the care and rehabilitation of soldiers returning from conflicts, who often come back traumatised and needing support, and particularly ensuring that those who are injured in the service of their country get the best form of treatment and that the families of the fallen are looked after?”
“Southeastern Trains stopped running trains in the cold spell at 9 o’clock in the evening, yet the docklands light railway and London Underground continued their services throughout the day, almost without disruption. Why did Southeastern Trains stop running trains? If my right hon. Friend does not know, will he haul the company in and get it to explain why it completely disrupted the service?”
“On several occasions before Christmas, the road network in south-east London and east London came to a complete gridlock because of incidents in the Blackwall tunnel or on adjacent roads. That unacceptable situation occurs too frequently. When my right hon. Friend next meets the Mayor of London, will he put that high on his agenda, because it cannot be allowed to continue?”
“May we have a debate in the House on policing and security in London? The Mayor of London was elected on a promise to provide strong leadership for the Metropolitan Police Authority, and some of us would like to scrutinise exactly what he thinks he has achieved that makes him believe he can break his promise to the people of London and not give up his £250,000-a-year job with The Daily Telegraph .”
“Does my right hon. Friend agree that voluntary organisations in receipt of that money are best placed to provide opportunities for young people to get employment through sport and training opportunities, and that that provides people with an excellent opportunity to participate in making their communities better?”
“Can my right hon. Friend explain to me why, when the wealthy and powerful suggest things like raising rents to market levels for council and housing association tenants, or taking away their secure tenancies, it is not seen as class war? Does it not amount to a loathing of council and housing association tenants on the part of the Tory party?”
“Often, when funding organisations are looking to provide grants to voluntary community organisations, they pay too much attention to the involvement of statutory bodies when they look at those organisations’ financial viability. May I urge my right hon. Friend, when she is handing out grassroots grants, to ensure that the money is going to genuine grass-roots organisations in local communities?”
“10. How many local authorities (a) submitted successful bids in round 1 and (b) have submitted bids in round 2 of the Government's council housing new build programme.”