Clive Efford
MP for Eltham and Chislehurst · Labour · United Kingdom
“Thank you for allowing me to take part in this statement, Madam Deputy Speaker, given that I was not here at the beginning—I was carrying out my duties elsewhere in the House. I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement. What is she likely to do in my part of south-east London for technical and vocational places?”
“I rise to speak to amendment 97 in my name, which would remove clause 10 from the Bill. Clause 10 gives powers to the Secretary of State to vary the proportion of public and private provision of health services if they consider that to do so is in the interests of the health service.”
“Labour’s 2024 plan to make work pay set out a welcome desire to bring more essential services back into public control—something that is welcomed by health workers across the country, because so far the “biggest wave of insourcing in a generation”, as was promised, has felt more like a trickle when it comes to the NHS.”
“The explanatory notes for the Bill say that this new flexibility is necessary “where there may otherwise be a breakdown in provision of a health service.” Can we imagine a situation where the Secretary of State has concerns about a health service and that an approach to assist a local provider would be rebuffed?”
“There are ample powers to enable the Secretary of State to intervene and resolve breakdowns in the provision of a health service. On clause 10, we must balance what it adds in those situations against its potential misuse by an ideologically driven Government that are determined to privatise our NHS.”
“It was a pleasure to join my right hon. Friend at Greenwich council’s development of 435 council properties in my constituency for the launch of the social and affordable housing programme. Some 70,000 homes are planned, and that is welcome and overdue.”
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“I have seen no evidence suggesting that any white-listed countries have a significantly lesser regulatory system. Indeed, the position appears to be quite the opposite when it comes to protecting vulnerable people. The Bill, however, opens the market to people who currently cannot operate within the United Kingdom, and that is one of the main points of concern. What steps does the Minister expect the Gambling Commission to take, and at what stage does she expect it to intervene if operators fail in their duty to monitor gambling activity? There is widespread concern about pre-watershed gambling advertising. Although most gambling is not advertised before the watershed, there are exceptions for betting during sports fixtures that are televised before 9 pm.”
“If I place a bet on Tonga and it loses on shirt supremacy by 23 points, I will be liable for 23 times my stake money. Action on spread betting is strongly urged by sports bodies including the English cricket board, the Football Association, the Premier League and the Rugby Football League. They are experts in this field and work together on sports betting. Will the Minister accept an amendment to the Bill to require those who offer spread betting and who advertise to comply with licence condition 15.1, or will she give a commitment to work with her ministerial colleagues at the Treasury, who have responsibility for the FCA, to get it to introduce its own version of licence condition 15.1 as soon as possible?”
“Spread betting is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority, but it currently has no licence condition 15.1, although compliance with that code is cited—rightly—as one of the main justifications for the Bill. Just today I looked at the Sporting Index site. It offers a range of sporting spread bets, including on shirt supremacy. The specific example I looked at involved the Tonga versus Cook Islands match in the rugby league world cup. For anyone who is unclear, I should explain that shirt supremacy bets are about the difference between the totals of the numbers on the shirts of the try scorers of each team. Unlike traditional bets where people can win or lose a set amount, spread betting allows potentially unlimited losses.”
“We should be expecting matters to move on considerably as a consequence of the Bill. Why should we miss this opportunity to give the commission the full range of powers? Why should we risk being behind the game and having to wait again for time in which to legislate? It is surprising that the Bill contains no measures to ensure that spread betting is licensed in the same way as other forms of betting. It rightly requires all betting operators, wherever they are based, to comply with Gambling Commission licence condition 15.1, which means that betting operators will have to share irregular betting patterns with the commission and with sports bodies. The licence condition will then be integrated across the industry, with one notable exception.”
“Does the commission have enough scope within its powers to take action to protect consumers? What does it mean when it says that the provision of a kitemark will effectively happen? What form will the kitemark take, will it be easy to recognise, and will it provide links to information and advice from the commission, particularly information about the dangers of using unlicensed sites? According to the Select Committee’s report, when asked why the Bill did not include measures on enforcement, such as provision for financial blocking or the blocking of specific internet protocol sites, the Government assured the Committee that “most were already available”. What does that mean? Will the commission have the power to request financial blocking? Will it be able to request an internet service provider to block an IP address?”
“There is a great deal of concern about the details of the Bill. It is easy to understand why it is desirable, and, as I have said, we support it, but its application may present problems. As my hon. Friend says, during its further consideration we need to look into exactly how it will be enforced. Any company that is paying the licence fee and doing its best to operate according to the highest standards has a right to expect the integrity of the licensing system to be rigorously enforced. There should be a kitemark on the website of every UK licensed operator to indicate clearly to the public that the company is a registered, licensed operator that is overseen by the Gambling Commission. We need to see some evidence that the Government have thought that through.”
“It is my understanding that because spread betting is seen as a financial transaction and commitment, rather than straightforward betting, it was felt it was better regulated by the FCA. However, there are requirements on those companies that are licensed to report any suspicious betting activity they identify—that is covered by licence code 15.1—and the anomaly created by this current situation is that every online gambling operator who wishes to advertise for custom within the UK will be licensed by the Gambling Commission, except for spread betting companies. The intention of this Bill is that everybody will be brought under one regime, thereby creating a system that is easily understood by the public. That intention is undermined by the lack of action in bringing spread betting into line in the same way.”
“Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock), who is no longer in his place, have recently tried to pass into law, and I hope she will listen to them. There is a considerable legal view that the Bill will require levy payments automatically, as it will bring betting operators back into the regulatory environment and, de facto, within the scope of the 1963 Act. There is much concern in the industry that this should not be left to the courts to judge, as it inevitably will be.”
“1062.] The Bill, in effect, brings online gambling under the Betting, Gaming and Lotteries Act 1963 in exactly the same way as bricks and mortar betting shops are covered. I ask her again to review the advice on this, because a simple solution may be available. The Government rejected previous attempts to regulate for a betting levy that includes online betting, which has had the support of those from all parts of the House, on the basis that it would not satisfy European state aid rules. I believe that all parties would like betting operators to pay a levy on all bets, as the 1963 Act says they should. We now have a rare legislative slot and we cannot afford not to get this Bill right. I am talking about a policy that the Minister’s colleagues, the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) and the hon.”
“At last Thursday’s Department for Culture, Media and Sport questions, the Minister said in answer to a question from me about whether she will review the Government’s legal advice in the light of the European Commission’s ruling on the French betting levy: “I agree with the hon. Gentleman to a certain extent”— so there is progress there— “because the levy was created 50 years ago and does not completely deal with modern betting and racing practices, so, as I have previously said, I will consult. We will take evidence and look at the situation very carefully indeed, and try to find a modern, sustainable and enforceable legal solution.” —[ Official Report , 31 October 2013; Vol. 569, c.”
“The Minister will know that the issue of overseas betting operators paying the horse racing levy has been a cause of frustration for Government over many years. In answer to a debate on this issue on 20 January 2011, the Minister’s predecessor but one, the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare, said: “It is absolutely right for the House to urge the Government to come up with concrete proposals before the end of the year, and I am happy to accept that challenge, in line with the mood of the House.” —[ Official Report , 20 January 2011; Vol. 521, c. 1067.] It is now November 2013, and no Government solution to this issue is in sight.”
“The Bill proposes to amend section 33 of the 2005 Act so that a person providing facilities for remote gambling without a licence in the UK is guilty of committing an offence only “if the person knows or should know that the facilities are being used, or are likely to be used, in Great Britain.” Similar assumptions should apply to the reporting of suspicious activities. If an operator has been found knowingly to be providing facilities for unlicensed remote gambling in another jurisdiction, the Gambling Commission must have the power to consider that and remove a licence. Similarly, if the operator is found to have failed to notify the appropriate licensing authority in another jurisdiction of suspicious activity, in the interests of protecting the consumer, the Gambling Commission should be able to revoke the licence of such an operator.”
“We are all now waiting for the Government to act, and we have to ask why this is: why, when we are attempting to create the most robust system for regulating the gambling industry here in the UK, would we fail to introduce this specific form of sanction? Will the Government consult the sports governing bodies to address the problem of match fixing? Given the international nature of the remote gambling industry, it is not possible to monitor how operators act in other jurisdictions when reporting suspicious activities. If they fail to notify the relevant licensing authority in any jurisdiction in which they operate of suspicious gambling activities, not just those related to UK-based sports, the commission should have the power to consider whether to revoke their licence to operate here in the UK.”
“The Minister may be aware that the report of the Sports Betting Integrity Panel in 2010 chaired by Rick Parry recommended that the definition of cheating in the 2005 Act be reviewed. The power in that Act to tackle match fixing is too loosely defined and is not used. Indeed, it was not used in the case of the Pakistani bowlers. They were prosecuted under fraud laws, because the definition of cheating did not cover that form of match fixing sufficiently for it to be used in that case. The Parry report also had recommendations for sports governing bodies to improve their act. The sports have done what was asked of them.”
“The European Parliament has recently passed a resolution calling on Governments to make match fixing a criminal offence. That has been taken up by Michel Platini, UEFA president, who has called for all European Governments to legislate. The request of Mr Platini is also supported by the Sports Rights Owners Coalition and David Collier, chief executive of the England and Wales Cricket Board, who, through his sport, is at the forefront of trying to ensure that every country across the world has as effective a regime as possible. So what is the response to Michel Platini’s request? Is it possible to introduce a new clause into this Bill to amend section 42 of the Gambling Act 2005 on cheating?”
“How will it monitor how the operators apply that? If a scheme were introduced for people with gambling problems to self-exclude, how would it be implemented across two different enforcement regimes? If the Minister cannot satisfy herself that we can safeguard vulnerable people through the FCA, she must take steps to ensure that spread betting is regulated in the same way as all other forms of betting. In the meantime, however, will she give an assurance that spread betting operators who have a betting licence will be monitored by the commission for compliance with licence code 15.1? Should they be found to have failed to notify the FCA of suspicious activity, that must call into question whether they are fit and proper to hold a UK gambling licence, and the commission should have the power to take away their betting licence.”
“It can be difficult to draw a distinction between such transactions, and the hon. Gentleman has identified one of the reasons why spread betting is treated differently from straightforward betting. Some spread betting is provided by companies that also provide betting services, however, and therefore people might be confused about how this form of betting is regulated. We should consider how to deal with that. If the FCA is going to continue to be the regulator for spread betting, we must consider how it will comply with licence condition 15.1. As I have said, there is a great deal of concern about problem gambling. Is the FCA able to deal with this issue? Is this a form of activity that would normally concern it? Does it have the power to require operators to have appropriate systems in place to identify individuals with problems?”
“I hope that the Minister will consider the issues I have raised with her today and enter into cross-party discussions, so that we can all agree on a Bill that will protect vulnerable people and create the licensing system that is the gold standard for the world.”
“The commission is consulting on a new definition for the primary gambling activity test for its licence conditions and codes of practice, and anticipates being able to deal with the issue. However, it has unsuccessfully tried to interpret the primary purpose rule to require over-the-counter betting rather than move towards automated betting shops. At a time when there are concerns about single manning in betting shops, it is unacceptable that gambling organisations are seeking to remove the necessity to have staff at all. Will the Minister consider setting out in this Bill what services should be offered by betting shops if they wish to be licensed as such, and remove this loophole once and for all? In conclusion, for the benefit of the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare, I welcome the Bill as far as it goes, but more needs to be done.”
“Unfortunately, the Gambling Commission do not hold figures on the number and size of dormant accounts.” I say to the Minister that we are missing an opportunity to require betting operators to record exactly how much and what they hold in dormant betting accounts and unclaimed winnings, so that when the Government come to legislate, as they have promised to do, they will be able to deal with the issue. The Bill could also have included a definition of just exactly what constitutes a “betting shop”. The Gambling Commission definition of the “primary gambling activity” has permitted Trafalgar Leisure to introduce self-service betting terminals alongside fixed-odds betting terminals—FOBTs—in unstaffed premises, albeit against the better judgment of the commission.”
“If we all work together, we should be able to ensure that this issue does not drag on too far into the future. The Government have said that they will legislate on unclaimed winnings and dormant betting accounts held by operators —[Interruption.] I assure the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare that I will soon be coming to a conclusion, and I thank him for his contribution from a sedentary position. The 2010 report by the right hon. Member for Bath (Mr Foster) on dormant betting accounts and unclaimed winnings said: “It is important to be able to establish whether betting operators and bookmakers are able to accurately identify the number of dormant betting accounts and others, such as unclaimed winnings that their business creates.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for her question. The Government are introducing the Bill, not me. I understand that we have been given evidence sessions for the Public Bill Committee, so perhaps there will be an opportunity for people to give evidence and speak on that issue. On the 1963 Act, it would help considerably if the Minister could make a clear statement and commitments about the levy. Alternatively, she could work with all parties to consider a simple amendment to the Bill to finally address the issue. The recent decision by the European Commission approving the French levy on remote operators gives us further reassurance that a legislative approach is valid. There is considerable good will among Members from all parts of the House, and in the other place, for such a measure.”
“He also referred to the importance of getting taxation right. The hon. Member for Poole (Mr Syms), like a number of other Members, expressed disappointment at how narrowly drawn the Bill is. He, too, referred to regeneration and casinos. My hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans), the son of a bookmaker, expressed concern, as one or two other Members did, about people criticising the proliferation of betting shops. I wish to put it on the record that I have never criticised such proliferation. There are not more betting shops following the 2005 Act, but there is concern about the locating of betting shops close to areas of deprivation. Even the betting industry has recognised that that is an issue, and if we are going to deal with it, local government should be able—”
“It is not fair to accuse the Gambling Commission of that in this case, given that there is such widespread support for what we are trying to achieve in the Bill. My hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Paul Farrelly) made a passionate case for companies relocating to the UK, and highlighted the fact that bet365 has not been disadvantaged by remaining onshore. He pointed out that it has made a significant contribution to regeneration in his area, employing more than 2,000 people. It is the largest employer in north Staffordshire, and I believe he said that it achieved a profit of £180 million. He also called for sanctions to deal with those providing facilities for those who are avoiding the licensing system. Effective enforcement is something we will want to pursue in considering this Bill.”
“He described himself as modest and of course, that is a word we all immediately think of when we think of him. He expressed his concerns about taxation levels and his desire that online operators locate back in the UK. I was struck by his passionate appeal for recognition of the contribution that small companies make—particularly in innovation and the number of people they employ in this country—and the effect that overtaxing them will have, particularly when they are developing in their early stages of trading. That is an important point and the Government should take it on board. He also showed a healthy scepticism about civil servants who are empire building, which we all share.”
“Friend the Member for Bradford South (Mr Sutcliffe) for his contribution over many years, both as a Minister and in opposition. He is extremely well-informed and passionate about these issues, and I commend his commitment to education and treatment for people with gambling problems. He talked about the problems created by some aspects of the 2005 Act which were dealt with in the wash-up, and rightly said they need to be addressed. He also raised the issue of the definition of spread betting, and I hope the Minister takes that on board when considering any future amendments. He alone raised the issue of money laundering and how it affects on-course betting operators. The hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) is always fascinating to listen to. Even if we do not agree with everything he says, he makes his points eloquently.”
“As always when we discuss issues relating to betting and horse racing, this has been a good debate. It has also been very informative, as Members with a great deal of knowledge of the subject have contributed. I pay tribute to the Chairman of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, the hon. Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale), who has conducted inquiries into gambling, horse racing and betting. I was grateful for his comments on licence condition 15.1 and the issues relating to the Financial Conduct Authority, which are important and which we will have to address. I hope the Minister takes that on board. There are also important issues related to match fixing and resources for the Gambling Commission. Many Members have paid tribute to my hon.”
“Whenever we discuss such matters, the debate is always extremely well-informed because the hon. Members who contribute have a great deal of background knowledge. I hope that the Minister has been listening to what has been said today and to the calls for further amendment to the Bill so that we can reach a broad consensus on both sides of the House that will allow us to develop a regulation system for the gambling industry in the UK that has the full support not only of Members of this House but of the people we represent and that sets the standard for regulation across the world.”
“Members also called for a one-stop shop for self-exclusion across the industry, which is an important factor that we should be looking at, as this is an opportunity for us to set a standard by which we can protect vulnerable adults. A number of hon. Members called for spread betting regulation, and I hope that the Government will listen and that there will be sports betting rights for those sports that have to pay out much of the money that they generate for themselves so that they can protect their integrity when it is challenged by irregular activities in the betting industry. We must have regard to the concerns that those sports organisations have, and I hope that the Minister will consider consulting the governing bodies to consider what can be done in the Bill to address their concerns.”
“Member for Manchester, Withington (Mr Leech) largely spoke about the importance of the Select Committee report, but he also called for a level playing field in the industry. The hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), too, expressed concern about the taxation of the industry and the impact it may have on small businesses, in particular, which might be harmed if taxes are set too high. He also referred to the clustering of betting shops, which I have mentioned. Many hon. Members have called for the Bill to be extended in relation to enforcement protection, particularly for adults at risk of developing, or with, a gambling addiction. Some hon.”
“I will not, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind, because I have been given only a few minutes to wind up. Local government should be given the powers to review whether there are too many betting shops in a given area. My hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn, too, expressed concern about the impact of taxation on the industry. The hon. Member for Rochford and Southend East (James Duddridge) spoke about the capacity for casinos to contribute to regeneration. He also talked about the need to protect online customers who may have a gambling addiction, as did the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who made a passionate plea for effective enforcement and protection from exploitation of vulnerable adults. The hon.”
“The horse racing industry is not just part of British culture; it is also essential to our rural economies. However, we have an offshore betting industry that largely does not contribute anything, through a levy, to the industry. It is therefore important that the Minister reviews the Government legal advice on the betting levy in the light of the European Commission ruling in July of this year that allows a levy to be imposed. Will she review that in time for amendments to be tabled to the Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill?”
“The shares were sold at £3.30 each and this morning they are selling at £5.32. Does the Minister agree that the taxpayer got a raw deal in the share sale, and does he accept full responsibility?”
“May I challenge the Deputy Leader of the House to come back to the House some time in the near future and explain exactly how the Government are devising policy? Yesterday’s announcement by the Prime Minister on green measures and fuel prices caught everyone unawares. Today the Deputy Minister is making a speech about education and suggesting that we should regulate with regard to qualified teachers in our schools, but only last week the Minister for Schools signed off on cuts that could deregulate the oversight of qualified teachers. The Government’s approach, and not least that of the Liberal Democrats, seems to be inconsistent, so could we have an explanation of exactly what is going on?”
“My constituency also has a business that has been affected by this. When we wrote to the Financial Conduct Authority, the response was really an apology for the banks, as though this is just some sort of error that has been made. Does that not underline the fact that there has been a lack of urgency by the regulators, on whom we rely to act on behalf of our constituents when they are wronged in this way? We need more urgency from the regulators; they must get on with their job.”
“Will the Secretary of State explain why we have had a summer crisis in A and E? We are all used to the emergency services being overwhelmed in winter. Given the crisis that we have had, what will he do to assist the NHS in averting a winter crisis this year, rather than just blaming everybody else?”
“Q4. Last week, in answer to a question on his marriage tax policy, the Prime Minister said that“all married couples paying basic rate tax will benefit from this move.” —[ Official Report , 9 October 2013; Vol. 568, c. 151.] That was not correct, was it? Will he confirm that?”
“My hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) is right to highlight the fact that south-east London is not served by the underground system and therefore is heavily reliant on the rail system. The plan to develop a road crossing at Silvertown, next to the Blackwall tunnel, will not sufficiently provide the extra river crossings and access to docklands that south-east London needs. I stress the need for extra public transport options—including, if we build the Silvertown link, a docklands light railway crossing—that will reduce the capacity on the roads.”
“It is the duty of every Member of Parliament to ensure that every diplomatic avenue has been exhausted before we put our service people in harm’s way, or put civilians at risk. It is disingenuous of the Foreign Secretary to suggest that Parliament was recalled with the intention of our taking military action within days, and to dismiss the vote in the House of Commons and its significance. There is now an opportunity for diplomatic discussions to take place, but is the Foreign Secretary concerned about the possibility that talk of military action will give one side or the other the impression that it may gain an advantage if military action goes ahead? Has he considered what the implications of that are for the success of the diplomatic discussions?”
“The Government cannot have it both ways. They cannot have a regulatory regime that allows services to be cherry-picked where profitable by the jackals that will buy Royal Mail, and then say they will protect the universal service. We all know it will be broken up, but will the Minister say whether his description of the universal service requires people to collect their mail from a central collection point, rather than its being delivered door to door?”
“The Government were warned when they cut the money for school sport partnerships in 2010 that there would be fewer children in schools doing sport. Survey after survey has shown just that. The Taking Part survey, which was published last month, showed that there had been a 10% cut since 2009 in the number of children aged five to 10 doing sport in school. What are the Government going to do to turn that around?”
“The Tour de France is yet another major sporting event taking place in England. It will showcase one of the most beautiful parts of our countryside, but one issue of controversy will not go away: the fact that there is no women’s race as part of the Tour de France. The success of British women cyclists makes that hard to understand, particularly at a time when we are trying to encourage more women to get involved in sport. Will the Minister join me in backing women cyclists and say to the sport’s governing bodies, the owners of the Tour de France, their sponsors and the media that this is an argument that has long been lost and that they should come together to ensure that there is a women’s part of the Tour de France in 2014?”
“My hon. Friend is outlining the need for co-operation to achieve an outcome across policy areas, from health and local government to sport and recreation. That will be achieved only if there is a cross-Government message from the top. The message needs to be not only on cycling, but on sport, and on recreational and physical activities across the board.”
“I voted against a similar motion when my Government attempted this in 2003, and exactly the same things are being said today.”
“These are technical terms quite often used to make it easier for us to vote in favour of military action. We have also heard about “precision strikes”, “selective strikes”, “technical strikes” and the intention to “degrade”. We even have civilian deaths described as “collateral damage”. These are all terms used to convince us that we should vote in favour of a strike, but how do we contain a missile attack on a chemical weapons dump or manufacturing centre? How do we ensure that no civilians die? Would those deaths be acceptable? Would they somehow be laudable for having been created by us, rather than by chemical weapons? We do not have an end plan, a strategy for what we want to achieve with an incisive strike or an exit strategy. We have been here before.”
“He said that this was an atrocity that could not be ignored, which I accept, and that he did not want ours to be remembered as the generation that sat idly by, but our motion does not suggest doing that. He then said that the Government were seeking a mandate for a limited response. There we have it. That is why we are here today; the Government are seeking a mandate for a limited response, which is why our amendment is necessary and needs to be supported. Their intention was not to wait for the UN process to be exhausted, but to take precipitate action. What is a limited response? We have no mandate to punish—that is not our role—so what is the objective? Who or what is the target? It has been suggested that we aim to “deter” and “degrade” chemical weapons.”
“When the Prime Minister performed his U-turn yesterday on taking action this weekend, I wondered what we would be debating today. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition and the shadow Foreign Secretary on forcing the Prime Minister to do a handbrake turn over the action we were clearly called back to vote on today. The Prime Minister may have changed the text of the motion, but he certainly made the same hawkish speech today. I do not accept that wanting to exhaust all the avenues with the United Nations is somehow an argument for doing nothing. I heard the Deputy Prime Minister being interviewed this morning on the “Today” programme, and it was not his finest hour.”
“In his statement the Secretary of State said, “The Government have retained powers to direct Ofcom with respect to certain regulatory levers, such as reviewing the financial burden of the universal service”. What can that mean other than differential charges for a universal service in less-populated areas and in rural areas, fragmentation of the service, and casual labour used to deliver the post in areas that they have no knowledge about?”
“May we have a debate on the demands for a public inquiry into the allegations that the Metropolitan police sought to undermine the Macpherson inquiry? There are revelations today that a report has been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission that a senior officer sought to gather information on someone who was about to give evidence to the inquiry and did so with the intention of undermining that individual. If that proves to be true, it seriously calls into question the way that senior officers across the country approached the Macpherson inquiry and further undermines the process of the police investigating the police. Only an independent inquiry with the right to summon people and to have them give evidence under oath will satisfy the public that the matter is truly being looked into.”
“The revelation that the Metropolitan police may have withheld evidence from the Macpherson inquiry has rightly been met with public derision, but the Prime Minister’s answer earlier on really did not go far enough. The public are not satisfied by the police investigating the police, nor will an inquiry held in secret, no matter how eminent the QC, satisfy public opinion. Will the Prime Minister now give an undertaking to hold a public inquiry with the power to summon people and hear evidence under oath?”