← LEADERSHIP TERMINAL

UK PARLIAMENT · SITTING

Matthew Pennycook

MP for Greenwich and Woolwich · Labour · United Kingdom

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Dame Siobhain. I congratulate the right hon. and learned Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Sir Jeremy Wright) on securing this debate.

GREY BELT LAND: DEFINITION AND APPLICATION · 2026-09-15 · READ IN HANSARD

I will address the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s specific question in due course. Before I do so, I want to put on the record the policy in relation to villages. He can rest assured that I will address the point; if he is unsatisfied, he is more than welcome to intervene again. A number of hon. Members mentioned villages.

GREY BELT LAND: DEFINITION AND APPLICATION · 2026-09-15 · READ IN HANSARD

I will say two things in respect to that, and I will come on to detail how the approach works in relation to decision making very shortly. In general terms, developers can make whatever claims they like about any particular site across the country; it is for the local authority to assess whether, in its view, that site constitutes grey be…

GREY BELT LAND: DEFINITION AND APPLICATION · 2026-09-15 · READ IN HANSARD

and learned Gentleman’s point about what is likely to constitute grey-belt land. Let me directly address his other two specific points. Is this a significant policy? Absolutely, and it has been judged as much by the Office for Budget Responsibility and other external commentators. Is it deliberate? Absolutely. We want, as the right hon.

GREY BELT LAND: DEFINITION AND APPLICATION · 2026-09-15 · READ IN HANSARD

Where authorities may wish to restrict development in villages for other reasons, a range of tools are available, such as conservation areas or normal development management policies. On the right hon.

GREY BELT LAND: DEFINITION AND APPLICATION · 2026-09-15 · READ IN HANSARD

We have to put in place policies that, through the decision-making route, allow homes still to be brought forward in that interregnum, but then we have to push heavily to drive towards universal plan coverage. At that point, the protections are in place.

GREY BELT LAND: DEFINITION AND APPLICATION · 2026-09-15 · READ IN HANSARD

The complete record

Every one of 5,181 lines we hold for Matthew Pennycook, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 79 of 104.

  1. From that point of view, let us not let perfect be the enemy of the good, but leasehold must stop and, with leasehold, we must get rid of its toxic forms so that everyone has a share of the freehold from day one. As we heard from Nick Hopkins, it would be much easier for those guys to convert to commonhold later, but we should give people the ability to have the freehold to begin with. It is not just me who says that; in 2006, an academic who is on the Commonhold Council—this is in my written submission—expressed the view that, if people have super-long leases of 990 years and zero ground rent, it is asking nothing of developers to hand over the freehold, because the freehold is valueless. They might as well give the freehold, as opposed to expecting leaseholders to go through the rigmarole, stress and cost of buying it later.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  2. They need to be able to get a 990-year lease from the beginning, given that Parliament has already got rid of ground rents—two years ago, it got rid of ground rents—and our argument is that the value in the freehold is now valueless. Ground rents have gone, so why do you not just require developers to hand over a freehold with a resident management company? I understand that Matthew Pennycook is halfway there with an amendment to bring in resident management companies; we just need the freehold. If we do not have the freehold, we will allow the expensive middleman, the rip-off freeholder, to have some form of control going forward. I know of developments with an RMC, where you might think, “Bob’s your uncle, they’ve got control,” yet they are still being ripped off on things like insurance, even though they appoint the managing agent.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  3. However, one thing we can do, which is a pragmatic halfway-house compromise, is to say that all new leasehold flats come with a share of the freehold. That still persists with the leasehold system, but residents have control from day one. They are like Alan Sugar on “The Apprentice”: if they are being ripped off, they say, “You’re fired,” and they get a better company in—that is capitalism, that is choice and that is the right way forward for now if we are not doing commonhold, which is obviously too meaty. Secondly, all new leases must be 990 years. At the moment, shared ownership leases under the new model lease through Homes England and the Greater London Authority must be 990 years. I think it is obscene that, after this Bill comes in, people can buy a brand-new flat from one of these developers and be hit with a 99 or 125-year lease.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  4. They flew officials out to Australia and Singapore, where I grew up and where we lived under strata title, a form of commonhold where residents are in control. But there is no point crying over spilt milk. There is a good alternative, interim measure before second-generation commonhold eventually comes through. Bear in mind that I have been campaigning now for six years—that is six years of my life that I have wasted trying to abolish leasehold. The fact is that the time to have brought in commonhold was now. We did not even necessarily have a guarantee that this Bill would be here. After the Queen’s Speech in 2022, it was dropped at the last minute because of pressure from No. 10. So I am not going to hold my breath for commonhold.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  5. Are we attempting to, if you like, ameliorate an historic law that should really just be freehold forfeiture and should be done away with? On part 4 generally, we have sought to introduce by amendment an RTM regime for private estates. Are there any other tweaks to part 4 that we could reasonably look to make? Harry Scoffin: In terms of the commonhold point, obviously, attitudinally, I have accepted that it will be seen as out of scope of the Bill. But we also have to remind ourselves that England and Wales are the only two jurisdictions in the world that persist with this fundamentally unfair system. The Law Commission—we heard from Nick Hopkins earlier—gave a big endorsement of commonhold in 2020.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  6. Q Thank you all for coming to give evidence. I have two questions—one for Harry and Karolina and then one for Cathy and Halima. Harry and Karolina, we heard earlier from Professor Hopkins from the Law Commission, which had 121 recommendations on commonhold. It is clearly not feasible to add all those to the limited Bill we have in front of us at Committee stage. Professor Hopkins says there is a risk of partial commonhold legislation that might create unintended consequences. Are there any of those recommendations that we can reasonably add in that might make things easier in the future and pave the way for commonhold? That is my question to both of you. Cathy and Halima, clause 59 in part 4 of the Bill seeks to amend the Law of Property Act 1925. Would you agree that section 121 of that Act needs to be done away with?

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  7. I do believe that there are things that could be done with commonhold in the Bill to pave the way and say that we have a future with commonhold and it will happen en masse.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  8. The Bill could also be amended to introduce a sunset clause for existing flats. There could be some sort of agreement between the commercial and the leasehold residential blocks to pave the way for how this will be defined when we get to commonhold and people can convert. That would prepare people and get them ready, in practical terms, for how to run and maintain their blocks. There could be long-term maintenance plans and we could give people real, practical skills in how to do that. Commonhold is so much easier. Having a strata, I know that. You do not have complex laws. You talk to each other and work problems and disputes out. You have meetings. Laws are prescribed, so it is easy for people to know what to do each step of the way.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  9. Q Halima and Cathy, on part 4 and rent charges—unless you have something to say, Karolina. I am leaving it to you to self-police. Karolina Zoltaniecka: The Bill is very welcome. It does remove a few of the barriers to commonhold, but I feel that a few more things could be done, through amendments, to take steps towards commonhold and to make it easier to convert once we enfranchise and buy the freehold. We could lower the agreement rate from 100% to 75%. They have that in Australia already; you only need that amount to have a special resolution. There is already a trial for 20 blocks in the country. We cannot say it is not working, because it is working. There is a lot of miscommunication around commonhold in the industry. There could be an education and awareness campaign.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  10. Cathy Priestley: I do not really have anything to add except to say, would all the measures in the Bill really be necessary if the fundamental, underlying problem of private estate management was addressed? The estates we are talking about are not gated; they are not private. They contain public facilities, public open space, play parks and community centres. They might have private sewage systems and pumping stations. They almost always have sustainable urban drainage systems, because that is the way that flooding is mitigated these days. In the past, all these areas would have been adopted by the local authorities, but they are not being. If they were, there would not be any need for regulating managing agents or for the abolition of section 121.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  11. Q Thank you. Halima and Cathy on part 4, please? Halima Ali: Overall, I want to say that the model of maintenance that has been implemented is a scam, and all this Bill is really doing is legitimising the scam. Homeowners are being fleeced. This needs to be brought under control. In terms of the Law of Property Act, this is a positive step, but I would argue as a homeowner that a management company should not have its foot on my neck. This is my property. It is my hard-earned future for my family and kids, and no management company should have any rights over it. I feel that the model should be abolished altogether. There are two different tiers—fixed rent charges and variable rent charges—that are being allowed to continue in the private estate model. This needs to be abolished altogether.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  12. The Government are insisting on regulating, but realistically the Bill is not doing anything for us. Literally all it is doing is maintaining a scam.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  13. Q I agree with you about the underlying point, and we may seek to address that, but if we have to work with this new regulation of estate management regime, are there any ways you would like to see it strengthened or tightened? Cathy Priestley: It would be helpful for those who are on truly private estates and who do have private management, but we do not see any reason why homebuyers on estates should suddenly become estate managers for their local community. Halima Ali: It is exactly as Cathy said: normal homebuyers are not qualified to manage estates. If we are given the right to manage, if we are looking at a development of over 100 homes, it is really hard to get in touch with 100 people who will agree and be on the same page. It is not workable.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  14. It could be unfair to freeholds, it could be unfair to leaseholders, but the problem with fixing the rate is that it does bring unfairness.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  15. If you are going to fix the rates, that will bring an unfairness, either to the leaseholder or the freeholder, depending on what rate you are going to fix. It also ties in with capitalisation rates, if you are going to fix the capitalisation of the ground rent. There was a case on capitalisation rates—Nicholson v. Goff in 2007—that set out very clearly how the capitalisation rate should be assessed: so, the length of the lease term, security of the recovery, the size of the ground rent and the rent review provisions, if any. Every ground rent is different; every circumstance is different. Again, if you are going to fix the capitalisation rate in the same way that you are going to fix the deferment rate, that could certainly bring about unfairness.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  16. As I say, there are two cases where there are significant exceptions. The first is that if you have an intermediate leasehold—so, you have a head leaseholder who has a reversionary period—then commonly you would agree that at something higher than 5%, normally 5.5%, to the benefit of the leaseholder. Also, with some buildings there is an element of obsolescence—so, will the building actually be there at the expiry of the lease in, say, 80 years’ time? With a building built in the 1960s or 1970s, which perhaps has a life expectancy of 50 or 60 years, is there certainty that it will be there at the end of the term? In those circumstances, you can agree—I do not think with too much controversy—a slightly higher rate than 5%, again to the benefit of the leaseholder.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  17. Angus Fanshawe: On fixing rates and the deferment rate, before the Cadogan v. Sportelli case, which you mentioned, the deferment rate was always a contentious point. In my years of practising, that case has probably been the most important; really, it removed the deferment rate as something that was in dispute. Since that case, I cannot recall that I have ever had a disagreement on a deferment rate or a problem with agreeing the deferment rate. Cadogan v. Sportelli set the rate at 4.75% for houses and 5% for flats. There are a couple of exceptions—well, maybe one or two more than that, but there are two significant exceptions where you can depart from 4.75% or 5%. My concern is that if we fix the rate, we will remove the opportunity, as is the case now, for leaseholders to agree a higher rate than 4.75% or 5%.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  18. If there is no appetite to regulate in this Bill, with its limited time going through Parliament, at the very least we should introduce minimum competency standards. It has been done already, swiftly and elegantly, following the death of poor Awaab Ishak, where mandatory qualifications were brought in in the social sector. Many buildings are mixed use. A building manager will be walking down a corridor, qualified to manage the units on the left-hand side but not the units—or homes, I should say—on the right-hand side. That is inequitable and it makes no sense. Further, it also assumes that those in the private sector are not vulnerable. Vulnerable people live in the private sector too. The argument for, at the very least, having a code of practice and mandatory qualifications for building managers is, in my view, all-compelling.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  19. We can go into the details of it, but let us be very clear that we think it is a Bill that is going in the right direction. One of the Bill’s effects is going to be empowering leaseholders to look after their own affairs, and that is a good thing. But, again, we have the leaseholder, who is not daft—they could be a brilliant surgeon, or a lead violinist—but are none the less not property experts, so, again, the move towards self-determination and self-control means that they are being driven into the hands of an agency sector that is entirely unregulated. If Lord Best’s basket of reasons were not enough, if we add to it the Building Safety Act, then we add to it the inexorable drive towards leaseholder control of their own homes and their own affairs, it is surely now time that the sector was regulated.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  20. The responsibilities and the technical knowledge that go with that are considerable. For leaseholders who are RMC directors, the Building Safety Act also makes the RMC the principal accountable person, and to whom do they turn? The first port of call is the building manager. The Building Safety Act has the unfortunate consequence of inevitably driving leaseholders, who may be very intelligent individuals—such as the lead violinist of the London Philharmonic Orchestra, a brilliant individual but not an expert in building safety management—to their building manager. That means the Act is now driving lay consumers into the hands of an unregulated sector. That is another basket of reasons, in addition to Lord Best’s basket, on why the sector should be regulated. Then we come to this Bill, which we warmly welcome and very much support.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  21. Redress and the first-tier tribunal, as well as the ombudsman, are the ambulance down in the valley, but it would be better to prevent harm occurring in the first place. Minimum competency standards and a regulated sector are the fence at the top of the cliff. Lord Best made his recommendations four or five years ago now and I wholeheartedly support them—we support them. If we take Lord Best’s basket of reasons, put it on the table in front of us and acknowledge that, we will then have to consider where the industry has moved. Since that time, we have had the Building Safety Act, which was supposed to introduce a building safety manager. That was abandoned and the building safety manager is now in effect the property manager. The property manager now has to learn half of a new profession.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  22. There were three components to Lord Best’s recommendations: first, there should be a regulator; secondly, the regulator should have a code of practice through which to hold the industry to account; and, thirdly, there should be mandatory competency standards. That applies to sales and lettings as well as to block, or leasehold block management. He made a distinction with block: because of the large sums of money and the high risks involved, block should be qualified to a higher standard—indeed, minimum level 4. There is a compelling reason why regulation is required. The way to think of it is the apocryphal tale of “The Ambulance Down in the Valley”, a famous poem. There is a large cliff, and people fall off it. Should there be a fence at the top of the cliff or an ambulance down in the valley?

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  23. I have heard it put to me by people in other parts of the country that it may work in London, but it is very out of kilter with what works in different regions. If the Government are minded to remain of the view that the Secretary of State should fix the deferment rates, how best should the Secretary of State do that? What would need to be taken into account? Is there a need to set multiple rates for different parts of the country to deal with the variations? I want to explore the prescribed rates a bit more and how they can function most effectively if schedule 2 is to remain. Mr Andrew Bulmer: Thank you for the question. On the regulation of managing agents, I should also declare that I was on Lord Best’s working group.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  24. Q Thank you, gentlemen, for giving us your time this afternoon. I have a question for each of you. Andrew, in the regulation of managing agents, do you think it is necessary to ensure that the provisions of the Bill work effectively? Your Best working group report is slightly out of scope, but if we do not introduce the parts—if not the entirety—of it, on the regulation of managing agents as it impacts on the Bill, would that harm the operation of the measures in the Bill? That is my question to you. Angus, we have exchanged correspondence on valuation, and I know that you take the view that the deferment rate should not be fixed by the Secretary of State. I wanted to explore that a bit further, in the sense that the 2007 Cadogan v. Sportelli judgment, which has broadly set deferment rates, was made in the context of 0.5% interest rates.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  25. Q Just to probe you further on why, from your point of view, the Cadogan v. Sportelli rates are 4.75% and 5%, is that just for central London or is it your view that it works broadly across the country? Angus Fanshawe: Yes, you are right. The case was about a flat in Cadogan Gardens—so, London SW3, prime central London. However, it was very clear. It set out how the deferment rate should be assessed. If the rate is to be assessed, I think the Cadogan v. Sportelli case sets out very clearly how it should be assessed. That would be the starting point: if the Government decide to do that, that is the starting point.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  26. We have still not seen that and there is nothing in the Bill that identifies that.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  27. What we need mandated is what information and what data should be reviewed to identify what the relevant material information is, because without that how do we know if somebody has the information from the leasehold property inquiries or from the seller’s or the estate agent’s guesswork? Certainly, without the regulation of property agents, there is nothing to say, if they do just make it up, that anybody can take anything against them. We absolutely need that to be incorporated. It was promised and there was an announcement, I think, in 2018 that the leasehold property inquiry information should be made available at a cost of £200, with a refreshment fee for those time-sensitive elements of £50, and that that information should be made available within 10 working days.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  28. You will need to go to the managing agent to get the information about the service charges.” The managing agent says, “Right, well, we charge £400 for that, but you will need to go to the Tenants Association to get information about disputes and consents,” and so it goes on. The timescale to getting the information having paid for it is about 57 days. For the consumer, it is an absolute nightmare. As Kate says, guidance from National Trading Standards came out on 30 November 2023 which sets out the material information—the information that would be relevant to the average consumer. It is not all the information.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  29. Most of the information is standardised across the whole of that estate; nothing is going to change. Certainly, when we were looking at the regulation of property agents with Lord Best, it was clear that some of the bigger managing agents already have templated tenant portals where people can go to get that information. That needs to be put across the whole of the leasehold sector, the rent charges and the managed freehold estates, because we are seeing charges of up to £800 for the information. We are also seeing the duplication of those charges. We will go to the landlord and they will say, “We only answer the ground rent ones, but we still want £400 to answer those.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  30. The time it takes is also essential. Mandating up-front information specifically for leasehold would help us to reduce fall-throughs and reduce the time it takes, but most importantly, it would mean that people could get on with their lives more quickly than they currently can. Beth Rudolf: I am the co-ordinator of the leasehold property enquiry form and the freehold management enquiry form, which are supported by TPI, RICS, the Law Society, the Conveyancing Association and right across the sector. The intention of the forms was to create a standard template for the information required. It is noticeable that, of the questions raised, only five are time-sensitive, such as failings to pay ground rent or the current budget—the kinds of things that change over time.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  31. Although agents are supposed to understand all the property rules and regulations, from the discussion you had earlier, apparently nobody thinks that they should be qualified, and there is no regulation, so one problem is that agents have no idea about the trading standards up-front information that is coming through. A lot of good work is being done; the issue is that it is not working on the ground. On leasehold specifically, people have to get hold of leasehold packs. There is a cost associated with them, and the time it takes can be excruciating. Anything that can be done to cap those costs would be welcome, but we need to make sure that quality is still required. The danger of the cost being too low is that we do not get quality leasehold packs, and they are essential due to the complexity of leasehold.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  32. It has improved consumers’ education so that they really understand what they are buying into and that leasehold is very different from freehold, but they have now got the impression that leasehold is a bad thing. When leasehold works, it is not a bad thing. From my perspective, and certainly from all the work we do with our participants on the Home Buying and Selling Group, it is essential that information be provided up front. Fantastic work has been done by the group that worked with trading standards, who now require up-front information, but it is not mandated.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  33. Eventually, four or five months later, you might have all 20 and you can then buy and sell that property. That is the biggest problem we have. One of the massive opportunities with the Bill is to mandate the information required for people to understand what they are purchasing with a leasehold property. A key thing that we do not have in the property sector that other areas have—I have worked in the health, beauty, food and drink sectors—is an awful lot of natural education on how to buy things. We have nothing; there is no natural education of the public in our sector, apart from in the media, where any property story is particularly negative. The work we are doing now has been fantastic.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  34. Q Thank you, ladies, for your time. Unless I have overlooked them, there are no provisions in the Bill to mandate or impose any requirements on time and fee for providing home buying and selling information. Several witnesses referred to that being a problem and to not having relevant information at the point of a sale going through. Should those clauses be added to the Bill? Kate Faulkner: There are various issues. I heard one of the best descriptions of this recently, which was that, if I ask you to bake a cake with 20 ingredients but I only give you five of them, it is a bit difficult to do. Once you have made the offer and the legal companies have had a look at it and at the agreements, in a couple of months’ time you might get up to 10 of those ingredients.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  35. They cite the figure of £27.3 billion as the estimated change in asset value from calculating the loss of ground rent income on the relevant leases. Do you find that a credible figure, or is it subject to a heavy amount of caveats, assumptions and so on? Dr Maxwell: To deal with your first question, I think it is important to start by looking at how the European Court of Human Rights, the Strasbourg Court, considers applications under article 1 of the first protocol. The Court has said consistently that where a deprivation of property occurs—article 7 interprets that effectively as when your entire right to property is extinguished and all economic value is lost—there is what is called a presumption of compensation. I am not entirely sure, because we do not have the proposals set out in statute—we simply have the consultation document—

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  36. Q Dr Maxwell, I want to ask you about two things: A1P1 and compensation. The Secretary of State’s view is that clause 21 is compatible with the relevant ECHR provisions. I presume you agree. The Government have five options out for public consultation at present. There is a sliding scale of risk in the potential for litigation—although they might well all be litigated in due course—from the capping of the peppercorn down to the freezing of ground rents at their current levels. On the existing ground rents, to what extent do you think that any of those courses of action in the five options will be compatible with the provisions of A1P1? On compensation, how credible do you find the figure in the Government’s impact assessment?

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  37. Absent sight of those sorts of leases and the relevant facts, we are dealing only in hypotheticals here, so that brings us to another question, which is to look at the macro picture of the options as a whole and the micro application of that to certain facts. It might be that on the macro approach, looking at the totality, we are dealing with a control of use, which means that there is no presumption of compensation, but it could be that if we looked at the micro analysis, certain individual circumstances do fall into that. Again, absent the relevant facts, it is only possible to speculate. It is a very broad market and there are lots of different leases.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  38. Q But the Secretary of State has expressed a preference for the first option, so let us say it is capping a peppercorn. Dr Maxwell: In most instances, it would appear that that would fall within control of use: the freeholder’s right to property is not entirely extinguished, because they retain the ability to use, sell or whatever that property, and they retain the ability to make money through other means such as enfranchisement fees or lease extension fees. I discussed this yesterday with Professor Bright at the APPG, which I know some of you were present at, but there might be instances where it falls within the category of a deprivation, or certainly gets close to that category, where the entirety of the income is derived from ground rent and the removal of that would effectively remove the value.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  39. Q Understood. What about the impact assessment figure? Dr Maxwell: I am not an economist. I have skimmed the impact assessment figures and noted the figures that seemed to be quite substantial. I noted for option 1— correct me if I am wrong, but I do not have a copy in front of me—I think it said that in the first 10 years, the loss of ground rent might be £5 billion, and then a loss of value of about £27 billion. I am not an economist, so I cannot really comment on whether that figure is remotely correct or reflective at all.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  40. Therefore, there cannot be seen to be what the Strasbourg Court usually refers to as an “individual and excessive burden” on this foundation, and it said that a breach had not occurred. The principle is that a cap or a limit on ground rent is not necessarily a violation, but you have to apply it to the certain facts and see whether it falls within causing an “individual and excessive burden.” But we are absent from facts and again dealing in hypotheticals here. We have to look at the macroanalysis.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  41. The Norwegian Government engaged in a process like this—a very considered discussion and consideration within the political sphere of the best way forward—and they effectively set a cap, which was the equivalent of about £600 a decare—I had to look that up—which is 0.2 acres. They set a cap, which again was challenged in a case called The Karibu Foundation, and that was when the ground rent related to about 0.6% of the land’s value. In that case, the European Court of Human Rights said, “No, there is not a violation here, because the Norwegian Parliament have clearly considered this and they have what the Strasbourg Court calls a ‘broad margin of appreciation’. These sorts of questions are for Parliament”—they are for you. The EHCR said that it had been adequately considered, they have retained the property, and that is reflected.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  42. Obviously, the risk register—if you want to call it that—of the finding of a breach is effectively reduced if you go down the relevant options to the final one of freezing ground rent, and there are other questions about the proposals as set out in there. This was discussed last night with the APPG, but it is important to recognise that there is Strasbourg case authority concerning cases from Norway that went to Strasbourg on the capping of ground rent. Obviously, ground rent in Norway is not exactly the same as it is in England and Wales, but there are some similarities. There was an initial case called Lindheim where the Strasbourg Court said that a cap of 0.2% in Norway breached the right to property of article 1 of the first protocol. That was because, effectively, the value was completely lost.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  43. Q Understood. On a practical level, would you expect any of the five options that are out to consultation to be the subject of litigation on the part of landlords? Or are there some that are safe, well beyond the infringements we are discussing? Dr Maxwell: If any of the options are implemented, it will result in a significant loss in value of freeholds. As a result, there is a prospect of challenges being brought. I cannot comment on where those challenges will come from, but it would be slightly naive to say that any of those options are completely safe from challenge. However, the prospect of a challenge being brought is very different from the finding of a violation; seeking to bring or threatening judicial review is very different from the actual court finding that a violation has occurred.

    LEASEHOLD AND FREEHOLD REFORM BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2024-01-16 · READ IN HANSARD

  44. Will the Minister tell us when further funding, beyond the current grant period, will be confirmed, and give us a sense of what steps her Department and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities are taking to help LPAs to secure the skills and expertise they are likely to need to meet the requirements of mandatory BNG? [ Interruption . ]

    DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN (TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING) (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) REGULATIONS 2024 DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN SITE REGISTER (FINANCIAL PENALTIES AND FEES) REGULATIONS 2024 · 2024-01-08 · READ IN HANSARD

  45. I have mentioned them several times, because the effective operation of the new framework will rely heavily on LPAs being able to carry out their new duties and obligations, whether that is scrutinising individual biodiversity gain plans or reporting on BNG delivery more widely. The Government committed to funding all new burdens on local authorities arising from the Environment Act, and have provided transitional funding for LPAs to prepare for the mandatory net gain requirement up to the end of the 2023-24 financial year.

    DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN (TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING) (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) REGULATIONS 2024 DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN SITE REGISTER (FINANCIAL PENALTIES AND FEES) REGULATIONS 2024 · 2024-01-08 · READ IN HANSARD

  46. Off-site land used for BNG, which is recorded and verified on the biodiversity gain site register, can obviously be effectively monitored. However, the onus for monitoring and enforcing on-site improvements will lie with local authorities. Given that management plans for development are not always monitored or enforced appropriately, can the Minister give us a sense of how the Government plan to ensure that local authorities consistently maintain improvements in biodiversity value over the long term? The third concern relates to local planning authorities themselves.

    DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN (TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING) (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) REGULATIONS 2024 DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN SITE REGISTER (FINANCIAL PENALTIES AND FEES) REGULATIONS 2024 · 2024-01-08 · READ IN HANSARD

  47. That is because—if I have understood the instruments correctly—they are under no obligation to register plans in such instances, and monitoring and enforcement will fall to overstretched local authorities. Will the Minister tell us how the Government intend to guarantee that all kinds of offsetting will prioritise high-quality habitats with the greatest biodiversity potential, rather than lower-quality habitats that might be easier and cheaper to set up and maintain? The second concern relates to habitat monitoring and maintenance. The Environment Act makes it clear that habitats should be secured for a minimum of 30 years and that, when delivering BNG, the relevant planning obligations or conservation covenants should hold for at least the same period.

    DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN (TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING) (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) REGULATIONS 2024 DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN SITE REGISTER (FINANCIAL PENALTIES AND FEES) REGULATIONS 2024 · 2024-01-08 · READ IN HANSARD

  48. The statutory biodiversity metric is intended to provide a rigorous and transparent framework for assessing such value, and it is designed to ensure that the focus is on the quality of land used for mitigation rather than the quantity. However, given that BNG can be achieved in a number of different ways, there is a clear risk that sub-optimal outcomes could be produced simply because they are easier or cheaper for developers to achieve. Provided everything permitted on the biodiversity gain site register is of high quality, it should eliminate that risk for off-site BNG commitments secured via units on the market. However, the risk will remain for off-site offsetting where developers use their own land, outside the development site.

    DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN (TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING) (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) REGULATIONS 2024 DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN SITE REGISTER (FINANCIAL PENALTIES AND FEES) REGULATIONS 2024 · 2024-01-08 · READ IN HANSARD

  49. It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Sir Graham. I thank the Minister for her explanation of the instruments. We welcome both sets of regulations, which are integral to rolling out the new biodiversity net gain framework and integrating it with the planning system. Although both instruments are uncontroversial, I will take this opportunity to raise three concerns with the Minister that arise from them, relating to how the new framework will operate in practice. The first relates to outcomes. I am sure the Minister agrees that, when it comes to BNG, we should always aim for the optimum outcome in terms of biodiversity value.

    DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN (TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING) (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) REGULATIONS 2024 DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN SITE REGISTER (FINANCIAL PENALTIES AND FEES) REGULATIONS 2024 · 2024-01-08 · READ IN HANSARD

  50. I thank the Minister for her response. All the processes that she has outlined, from the scrutiny of the initial plan to the monitoring and enforcement, rely on local authorities having the skills and capacity in this very specific and technical area, as she has made clear. Is it the Department’s contention that local authorities have the necessary skills and expertise to roll out the framework? If not, what steps is the Department taking to support local authorities in finding and bringing forward those skills and expertise?

    DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN (TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING) (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS) REGULATIONS 2024 DRAFT BIODIVERSITY GAIN SITE REGISTER (FINANCIAL PENALTIES AND FEES) REGULATIONS 2024 · 2024-01-08 · READ IN HANSARD