Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“Ar dhóigh amháin, cuirim fáilte roimh an rún atá os ár gcomhair inniu, ach, ar dhóigh eile, aisteach go leor, fógraíodh straitéis i gClár Rialtas an Choiste Feidhmiúcháin cheana féin. Cibé ar bith, tacaím leis an rún agus leis an leasú. <BR /> <BR />Ach, ar ndóigh, tástáil na putóige a hithe. Cuir i gcás foras uile-Éireann ár dteanga, Foras na Gaeilge. I dtaca le comhaoiniú an fhorais, tá Rialtas na hÉireann toilteanach a chuid a íoc, ach Coiste Feidhmiúchán na bhfocal deas — beidh le féacháil. <BR /> <BR />Fillimis ar an straitéis agus ar na tosaíochtaí. Ar an chéad dul síos bhí an teanga le haitheantas oifigiúil agus creatlach dlí a fháil. Ba chóir go leanfadh an straitéis ar aghaidh leis na forálacha a tugadh isteach faoi Acht Féiniúlachta agus Teanga (Tuaisceart Éireann) 2022, a thug stádas oifigiúil don teanga.”
“As we have heard, the barriers to the full participation of women in agriculture are multifaceted and require urgent action. The under-representation of women in agriculture not only affects their rights and interests but undermines the development of more inclusive, effective and efficient policies and practices. The imbalance limits the sector's potential for growth, innovation and diversification. <BR /> <BR />I fully endorse the recommendation of the Committee's March 2022 "Breaking the Grass Ceiling" report, and I support the motion and, indeed, the amendment.”
“<BR /> <BR />Additionally, we need to ensure that women in agriculture have the same access to training and education opportunities to enable them to develop skills that could enhance a farm management or agri-business or make it more effective and efficient. Historically, agricultural training programmes have been tailored to men, and that needs to change. To assist, we need to ensure that there are adequate mentorship opportunities for women. Feedback that my colleagues and I have received from stakeholders highlighted a lack of networking opportunities to meet other farmers or industry leaders. <BR /> <BR />Women's contributions to farming are all too often underappreciated or, indeed, overlooked, especially if they are not considered as primary farm managers.”
“Crucially, women are also under-represented in key agricultural organisations and policymaking bodies. That perpetuates problems, leading to policy bias, inequality and the reinforcement of gender stereotypes. It also reduces political engagement and trust. Such situations ultimately slow progress and prevent more comprehensive and well-rounded solutions that benefit the sector and society. Furthermore, agriculture is, without doubt, a demanding profession, often requiring long hours and a heavy physical workload. That can make it difficult for anyone to achieve a healthy work-life balance but can be particularly problematic for women, especially, as previously mentioned, those who are primary caregivers, when trying to balance work and family responsibilities.”
“However, we support the amendment because it crosses many fields. Indeed, the innovative work that is being done at CAFRE and some of the work that is being done in the further education (FE) colleges has to be considered and factored into any policies going forward. <BR /> <BR />As has been established, agricultural land is typically passed through male lines, and women sometimes have less access to inheritance or ownership rights. Furthermore, obtaining financial support from banks or funding bodies can be much more difficult for women, particularly if they lack experience in certain areas. Similarly, there are limited leadership opportunities for women. The top positions in agricultural businesses or organisations are frequently dominated by men, with a number of notable exceptions.”
“However, despite those efforts, the issue persists. Women in agriculture face too many barriers that can limit their involvement and success in the sector. As we know, the Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs published its 'Breaking the Grass Ceiling' report in March 2022. It identified key challenges, including our traditional view of agriculture. We know that traditional views see agriculture as a male-dominated industry, but, as the report recommended, those views need to be challenged. Likewise, access to land and finance needs to be increased. <BR /> <BR />I listened carefully to the speech on the Alliance Party's amendment, but I am not sure at this stage that loans are high on the list in some farmhouses, especially now that they face the challenges of inheritance tax.”
“Agriculture is one of our most crucial industries. It contributes to our economy, our rural communities and, of course, our food security. I concur entirely with the motion's sentiments, particularly that the under-representation of women is a major concern, despite their playing a pivotal role in the sector and in many farmhouses throughout the North and further afield. <BR /> <BR />Important efforts have been made to address gender imbalances, and I encourage more women to become involved in the sector. Notably, organisations such as the Ulster Farmers' Union (UFU), with its Women in Agriculture programme, have hosted important events, seminars and networking opportunities to empower women in the sector. We commend their efforts to challenge stereotypes and to encourage more women to consider farming as a viable career path.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis na Comhaltaí a mhol an rún.”
“Thank you for your statement, Minister. I see that a good bit of it is already on the website, almost verbatim. <BR /> <BR />Will the Minister please comment on measures, particularly on animal health and welfare, being taken to ensure all-island security? Such measures worked previously. I represent an area where, unfortunately, there was a bad outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease before, which was catastrophic for the farmer concerned. At the time, however, my party colleague Bríd Rodgers worked very closely with the then Minister to ensure animal security and biosecurity.”
“Minister, the number of working days lost in the Civil Service due to sickness went up from 72,000 in July 2024 to 81,600 in December 2024, with an additional estimated cost of £1·8 million. According to the figures, stress, depression and anxiety accounted for the largest proportion of that at 41·5%. As the Minister in charge of the Civil Service, what measures is your Department taking to introduce a safer environment for people to work in and one that is more conducive to good mental health?”
“Under the heading, "Sustainable Travel and Transport", the Minister referred to collaboration on policies and projects. Will she provide details on what those policies and projects are, please?”
“Minister, any assessment of the Scoil Spreagtha scheme demonstrates the enormous benefit that it represents in the promotion and encouragement of the Irish language in schools. Recognising that Gael Linn believes that the scheme will cease in June, if more supporting funds are not found, will you indicate what measures your Department is taking to assist in its maintenance?”
“Some scams have become so sophisticated — "good" is probably the wrong word to use — that it is very hard to determine what the real thing is and what the scam is. What interaction or collaboration has there been between your Department, the Department for the Economy and the PSNI to make people more aware of, and thus prevent, those awful scams, which, in some instances, have cleaned out people's bank accounts?”
“Thank you for that, Minister. You will forgive me for saying that, "We will learn lessons" is probably one of the most abused phrases in the lexicon of the Civil Service. I do not anticipate that you will do this, but, given that your Department invested considerable amounts of money in that project, as did DFE and, indeed, the UK Government, will you be able to report back, or will it be left to the Department for the Economy to report on what future-proofing measures will be taken to ensure that people are not left stranded in a similar way, especially those in our more isolated rural areas?”
“Minister, you will be aware that a significant number of farms that had done a fair bit of tree planting have been affected by ash dieback. How might the scheme help those farms to replace trees that were lost in significant numbers and at substantial cost?”
“Minister, you took us into the realm of the current tripartite arrangements. Will you outline your assessment, please, of the effectiveness of those arrangements with regard to accountability and delivery, given the recommendation in the review that they should be subject to a new partnership agreement?”
“Thank you for raising that, my friend and colleague. I have to record my clear thanks to the Minister who was in situ at that time, Charlie McConalogue, for working actively and vigorously not just with us but with representatives of the meat and farming industry in the North.”
“I take the Member's point that food crosses the border daily, going up and down. The food from Ireland is good food and meets the highest standards, and the markets and customers that receive it get high-quality produce. It is important that that be the message that we send out from the Assembly today. It is the message that we must send out by rejecting the prayer of annulment.”
“It is important, however, that we arrive at the key issue, which is the message that we send out about consumer confidence in our meat industry. Let us deal with one fact, which is that the value of our food and live animal exports from the North to the rest of the island increased from £1·6 billion to £1·75 billion in 2023. What message do we want to send from here about the export market? That is the market solely within our own island. We want to send out a clear message about consumer confidence.”
“The Department has, in effect, been asleep at the wheel. In fact, an issue as important as ensuring traceability of our livestock was such an embarrassment to the Department that it asked the Committee to deal with it in secret.”
“That is in the interests of farm manageability, animal welfare and sending out a message about what our industry is about: good standards and high consumer confidence. <BR /> <BR />The issue has been lying since 2021 with no applicable legislation. We have had devolution for a year now, and there has been no action from the Department on what is a clear animal welfare issue and commercial issue for farm businesses for almost a year.”
“The SDLP stands in line with common sense to oppose the prayer of annulment on the identification, records, movement and enforcement regulations. To do otherwise and to support the prayer of annulment would be crazy. <BR /> <BR />Members have already referred to enforcement of the requirements for farm traceability. It would remove the — sorry, there is none at the moment. The enforceability of the livestock regime creates, at present, legal uncertainty. Officials outlined to Committee members that, in those more extreme cases, they could not legally enter farms, conduct enforcement or prepare cases for the PPS. That is an awful position to be in. We need to have the situation clarified and the proper laws and regulations in place to allow that to be done.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Minister, what potential sources of funding have you been seeking or sourcing for loss of income, particularly for some of the farmers involved? It is a devastating blow for any farm of any type to have such an outbreak inflicted upon it, so could you advise us about that. Secondly, with the Speaker's forbearance, will you give us more detail on your collaboration with the Minister in the rest of the island?”
“Minister, on that point specifically, you will know that rural areas suffered very badly as a result of storm Éowyn. Will you advise on what direction has been given to those various Departments on how they might prioritise those rural areas? What practical assistance will they be giving to services and other aspects of those rural areas?”
“Will you give an indication, please, of what has been done at an Executive level?”
“Minister, we had a sample of climate change recently with storm Éowyn. How or in what way are the Executive Office or, indeed, the Executive collaborating with utilities such as NIE, NI Water and others, especially the likes of the providers of fibre networks? We saw at one fell swoop how virtually the entire region, especially rural areas, was left without any means of communication, heating or power.”
“It is a big issue that has caused a lot of angst among farming families. It has caused a lot of angst among the young, the old and the generations in a household. That is not where we want to be. If we want to invest in the future, we need the people who own the land to still work the land and provide food for our people and to give their young people and families a future to look forward to. Go raibh míle maith agat.”
“It has been estimated — again, these are estimates — that Northern Ireland could account for over 40% of the inheritance tax intake as a result of the change to inheritance tax for farming families. That is incredible. That just shows that the Government are directing it at the wrong target, if their aim was to target it. They should really reflect on that. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to hearing from the Minister. I am sure that he has been doing his job and making the case to the Government at Westminster. It would be helpful to shed a wee bit of light on that detail. Minister, you will forgive me: I watch most of your stuff and make sure that I keep an eye on you most of the time, but I cannot do it all the time. It would be helpful if you shed some light on the case that was made to Westminster.”
“A report estimates that at least 6,000 Northern Ireland farming taxpayers and potentially up to 420 cases per annum could be affected by the change. If the Labour Government want to go after those billionaires who are "land stocking", we will call it, just to avoid tax, they should go after them. Surely, among the great and the good and the brilliant tax advisers that there are, they can find a methodology with which to go after someone who has bought land just to avoid tax and is not actively farming it. Do that instead of going after the small man, the small farmer, or others who are just trying to provide food for their families and to provide food for 10 million people. That is what Northern Ireland does in various aspects of farming and agriculture.”
“Whether or not that debt can be paid off the inheritance tax over 10 years interest free, it is still a debt. Earlier, John Blair mentioned the environment. That debt means that the young person will not be able to invest in new farming methods. They will not be able to invest in tractors, machinery or whatever it is. They will not be able to invest in maintenance of the ground. Therefore, to inherit that debt is certainly not the legacy or bequeathal that any father wants to leave to his family. There is that element to it as well.”
“Absolutely. I thank the Member for raising that point. Some do it because of their attachment and the emotional value of that land to the family. There is another element to that, as no one — it is usually the father or grandfather — wants to leave a legacy of debt to that young person.”
“People have asked what the scale of this is. Those who are not off the land, whose families are not engaged in farming and whose families have not held in ownership the land, which, we know, is a very important issue in Ireland alone, and those who are not attached to the land or are not of the land really do not get what this means. It is emotional attachment. It is a legacy, a tradition, a way of life and a way of working that has been handed down generation after generation and kept in the family. When we speak about the issue, it is not just about basic accountancy; it is about a range of emotions and a host of issues about attachment to the land and working it to sustain families and others.”
“Gabhaim buíochas fosta le mo chara Déaglán agus a chomhChomhaltaí as ucht an rún seo a chur osár gcomhair.”
“Minister, supporting children with special educational needs was a priority in the draft Programme for Government, yet children continue to wait nearly three times the statutory limit for an assessment. Will you outline when your Department expects to deliver an assessment for every child within the statutory 26 weeks? Is that likely to be included in the Programme for Government?”
“It is incredibly important that people get the support that they require to make sure that they are able to put food on the table. With regard to the issues around discretionary support and the contingency fund, I am not sure how many people fall into the category of ineligible, but I would like to think that just because someone has moved house and has had to get utilities and stuff sorted, they will not be caused to fall into a situation where they do not get any money, even to put food on the table for themselves or their families. I support our motion in line with the Alliance Party amendment.”
“It is our moral duty to ensure that we do all that we conceivably can to make sure that no one is placed in that position — no one. I agree with him that, following the introduction of UC, there has been an increase in rent arrears. He also referenced illegal lending from paramilitaries and legal lending from high street lenders. If I understand Mr Carroll correctly, people are becoming afraid to even apply for UC because of the fear of debt. <BR /> <BR />The Minister has taken note of a number of the issues that have been raised, and I thank him for doing so. However, it would be very helpful if he made an application to his colleagues in the Department of Finance for additional money for the contingency fund.”
“When we saw it being introduced, many of us said that there would be a lot of problems with it, and unfortunately those problems are here. <BR /> <BR />Colin Crawford referred to the problems that people are facing and the distressing challenges and financial implications for women and young people. He talked about food banks and the exploitation that ensues for people who find themselves in financial difficulties. <BR /> <BR />Nicola Brogan also made reference to bureaucracy, welfare reform issues and how people were facing difficulties, and called on Westminster for additional support. <BR /> <BR />Gerry Carroll referred to the food insecurity issue and the fact that people cannot even eat, which is just awful.”
“Thank you for that, Minister. <BR /> <BR />Brian Kingston spoke on behalf of the DUP. I think that we are all on message here when it comes to the implications and effects of UC and how it is processed. It is problematic, and people are paid in arrears. He quoted comments from the House of Lords Economic Affairs Committee on the minimum five-week wait and the fact that people could not afford to eat or to heat their homes during that wait. He referred to other engagements with stakeholders. <BR /> <BR />Colm Gildernew said that there was a need for an increase in the contingency fund. If he has any idea of who is in charge of the finances, maybe he will give them a wee nudge about allocating additional resources to the Minister for that. He called for the scrapping of UC, which is a fair enough point.”
“The person was hit with an overpayment of about a couple of hundred quid. It was not their fault, responsibility or duty. I ask the Minister to look at that too. I do not know how many cases like that might be out there, but there is, clearly, at least one.”
“For people who are captured within the monthly assessment period, their pay or, indeed, arrears of pay may fall within that period. As a result, the assessed amount goes up, and they are then ineligible for payment that month or their payment is substantially reduced. It can affect their housing payments too. That is tied in with Westminster, but it affects people. <BR /> <BR />We have had at least one case around another issue that definitely affects people. It concerns the transition from the benefits that someone is on, especially for those in receipt of tax credits. I tabled a question for written answer about one such case. In that case, an overpayment accrued, but the overpayment was not because the person had not notified HMRC about their transition to UC. The notification is supposed to come from the UC system itself.”
“In proposing the Alliance Party's amendment, Sian Mulholland referred to the fact that people have to wait for up to six to eight weeks to get a determination. Some have had to wait for as long as 11 weeks. Since the introduction of universal credit, food bank use has increased. I think that Sian cited the statistic that their use has gone up by 52%. There are issues with people taking advance payments and illegal moneylenders. Sian referred to two young mothers who had their windows put in by moneylenders, who are out there to prey on people who have no money and are exceptionally vulnerable. Those people are ripe pickings for the moneylenders. It is awful stuff. <BR /> <BR />A couple of other issues around UC are not particularly to do with the five-week wait for payment.”
“The contingency fund is useful, but it is no substitute for universal credit payments. There is a further element to that: anyone who may have been eligible for discretionary support within the previous 12-month period may not be eligible for the contingency fund. That is another aspect that has to be considered. They could have received discretionary support because of moving house and having no money, being in low-paid work or receiving another benefit. That discretionary support is there to help them to kit out their house or maybe even to give them a basic bed. That is one aspect that I ask the Minister to consider. <BR /> <BR />I have already referred to the migration to UC of people who are principally but not exclusively in the ESA support group.”
“They wind up at an appeal, and you find out that there have been incredibly difficult issues for them mentally and, often, physically as well. I wanted to put that marker down at the start of my remarks, Minister. <BR /> <BR />We have heard about the difficulties not just with the five-week wait but with the minimum five-week wait that is associated with a claim for universal credit. We have heard about how people have coped with that. My colleague referred to loan sharks, intimidation and the fact that people are fearful about what might happen to them. People rely on food vouchers and emergency financial support, and they fear receiving that migration letter. My colleague also referred to the need for more accessible information on the contingency fund to be made available.”
“I also thank the Minister for being here and for listening intently to the arguments that have been made. These are real issues that affect many people. One aspect that has not been focused on relates to people with mental health issues who are exceptionally vulnerable and who may be in the support group of ESA at the moment. Local staff in the Department have been very helpful in being available to help people with their claims. However, I have a concern that some of those people are, potentially, inaccessible and may not follow through on letters from the Department. I put that as a marker to make sure that everything that can be done to reach those people is done. We deal with people who come into our office and have not responded to letters.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Minister, in 2023, your Department funded a £110,000 scheme to explore regeneration projects in 10 rural villages. Will you give us an update on those specific locations, please?”
“The rule of law and justice must be applied equally and consistently to all, be they paramilitaries, agents of the state — we have seen the havoc that they wreaked — or members of the security forces. I stand by that just as we in the SDLP have done down through many decades of the Troubles and, thankfully now, the peace.”
“Like others in the Chamber, I have attended far too many unnecessary funerals and wakes brought about by campaigns of violence on our streets that were unnecessary. I am a member of the SDLP, which stood for non-violence and to provide the alternative and the leadership that, hopefully, has brought us to a peaceful new settlement and scenario. <BR /> <BR />In this instance, the use of lethal force by the SAS was found by Justice Humphreys to be unjustified. I have been with families in other cases who have, time after time, sought recourse and justice through the courts. Innocent people seeking justice through the courts should not be denied, irrespective of their background or whatever route they chose to take. Justice must prevail in any civilised, democratic society.”
“Not after what your colleague said about me earlier. <BR /> <BR />It has been referred to the Executive. Can we have a plan of action to identify the weaknesses and the problems and how things can be done better? I do not particularly care who takes the initiative so long as that is done and so long as we hear back. Those living in isolation, those living with health problems and, now, those living without communications must be uppermost in our thoughts and actions.”