Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. First of all, I congratulate the Minister on his appointment to the Department. I have no doubt that he will perform his duties as assiduously as before. <BR /> <BR />I have been in regular contact with St Patrick's College, Maghera. I have had visits, and I commend the Minister's officials, who took the time to meet the school principal, the chair of the board of governors and Councillor Martin Kearney on site to see the actualities of the school, so please convey that thanks to the officials for their time and commitment, Minister.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Glacaim leis an mholadh sin, agus gabhaim buíochas le mo chara Nichola Mallon as sin a dhéanamh. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I accept the nomination, and I thank Nichola Mallon for the proposal.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. Molaim an tAire as gabháil i bhfách leis an fhiosrúchán phoiblí seo; molaim é as an neamhspleáchas intinne a thaispeáin sé, fiú in éadan thoil a pháirtí féin. I genuinely welcome the Minister's decision and the independence of mind and spirit he has shown, against even the wish of his party at this time. His statement refers to his officials unearthing the "financial calamity". Will he please indicate when those officials unearthed this information and to whom they provided it, including any other Departments?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Is he minded to close or retain those services and facilities in the Cookstown area? They serve a big rural area.”
“I understand that those will be your priorities until such times as you are no longer Minister, but can you give an assurance that they will stick in place, post your time there? Will the commitment of £75 million from the Irish Government to phase 1 of the A5 remain secure? What discussions have you had with the Irish Government on that?”
“If Members would just hold off on the far side, they will respect the point that I am going to make. While supporting entirely that the First Minister should step aside during a public inquiry, likewise, I am sure that the Member will support the view that any other Minister giving evidence about his or her Department should step aside while they give evidence to that public inquiry?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I take his point entirely. I am sure that he will not dispute that people who are conducting their business legitimately have absolutely nothing to fear from a public inquiry.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. At this point, to summarise, what is being presented before us today is legislation that has not got the approval of the Executive, has not, as the Minister Máirtín Ó Muilleoir, who has gone, outlined, got the sign-off from the Department of Finance, has not passed through the clear scrutiny of the Committee and has not been approved by the Examiner of Statutory Rules. Is there anything it does have by way of proper procedural legislative scrutiny by this Assembly?”
“There is no sign of any urgency there. On the level of detail, we need a full public inquiry, and that rests with the First Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />Given the fact that demand exceeded expectations and that this was apparent from as far back as at least November 2014, did anyone in the Department work out the impact of the announcement or think at least to ask this question: what impact will this July announcement have on the level of applications between now and February and the introduction of new measures in November? On the back of that, what advice was provided by the departmental officials to the Minister? <BR /> <BR />Even on 3 September 2015, the Enterprise Committee received a briefing on the RHI amendment regulations that continued to refer to the "recent success".”
“Fact. Therefore, in November 2014, applications had already exceeded expectations for the projected March 2015 date. What was done at departmental level? Who was Minister? The alarm bells were clearly ringing at that stage. <BR /> <BR />Officials informed the Committee on 9 February 2016 that the process of thinking about the issue and asking questions began in March 2015, when it was noticed that the level of applications was rising — three months after the Department had informed the Committee of the very same fact. Officials said that the Minister was formally made aware of the problem in July last year. We wonder what the informal briefings contained. That was followed by the consultation on 22 July, which contained a proposal to introduce, among other things, demand-management measures from November 2015.”
“Five months later, in November 2014, the briefing, again from the Department, stated:”
“The sequence of events on the RHI, as we know, is as follows. In November 2012, the scheme was introduced to the non-domestic sector. Later, in December 2014, it was introduced to the domestic sector. On 11 April 2013, the Committee asked the Department to provide biannual updates on the implementation of the scheme. That resulted in an update being received more than one year later, on 5 June 2014, and later still, on 4 November 2014. Despite requests for updates on a biannual basis, the Department did not consider it necessary to provide further progress reports or updates to the Committee. Who was Minister? <BR /> <BR />The June 2014 briefing to the Committee stated:”
“We had no ministerial power to alter significant policy controls and checks to the RHI schemes. Let us have it all out there, not selective leaking to the media and slippy auld press briefings. All the detail should be investigated in full and before the public eye. <BR /> <BR />I have now to place on record my knowledge, based on information provided by officials to all members of the ETI Committee. Indeed, a number of them are in the Chamber and were here for parts of the debate.”
“This has been an interesting debate. The nub of it has been that the inevitably of where we are today is that an everyone-but-Arlene tactic has been used to try to dump the blame on everyone, including officials, consultants, the media and every Assembly Member and Committee. However, there is a distinction. Not all of those individuals had advice, access to notes or to memos to the Minister from SpAds or senior civil servants; that is crucial in all of this. <BR /> <BR />Was any detail provided to the Minister or her special adviser about the risks potentially associated with this scheme? None of that was available to any of the rest of us. We certainly had no access to whistle-blower's letters, notes or minutes of any meetings held as a consequence of that. Much has been made of that too.”
“Does the Member agree that some on the Benches opposite have a short memory? As Mr O'Dowd mentioned, they suggested that Máirtín Ó Muilleoir step aside during an investigation of the affairs around Mr Bryson.”
“Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire chomh maith. I thank the Minister for her answer and for shedding some light on that. Unfortunately, it appears that any journalist with a good camera can get an insight into what the Brexit stance of the UK Government is at the moment. Does the Minister support, like the deputy First Minister, the tabling of a legislative consent motion in the Assembly on the triggering of article 50?”
“Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire. I thank the Minister. Will the Minister outline whether he has done any sourcing of potential funds that could be used for this specific project and whether those sources are coming back to him with anything definitive?”
“Many schools struggle to meet the EF requirements, and Mr Lyons referred to some of the pressures on them. Can the Minister advise if there are any resources or support available to those schools to help them in that capacity?”
“To broaden the theme of the previous question, officials have been ensuring that there is close contact on both sides. It is paramount that that continue. Will the Minister provide us with any detail of specific items of work that officials on both sides have been commissioned to start as a result of the NSMC meeting?”
“Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire as a fhreagra. I thank the Minister for his response. Does he not agree that, given his level of interaction with various universities and the like, it is crucial that he meet the students' representative bodies about issues such as education, for a start, but about the likes of services and fees as well?”
“The Member mentioned red tape, which has already been raised today as an issue. The Committee has been given research that shows that much of the red tape emanated in the first instance from Westminster, and, to go back to a point made earlier, it is down to its interpretation by the local Department.”
“Thanks very much to the Member for giving way for a very brief point. Would the Member accept that a lot of what we are hearing about growth is based on the growth of our export markets and that many of the states that anticipate the exports will demand the same standards, particularly in food regulation?”
“<BR /> <BR />As the Minister knows, she has a responsibility to protect our farmers and the agriculture sector as a whole from the austerity that this British Government have a record of imposing in other areas of spending. People need to know what the strategy is. The economy needs to know. Agri-food and agriculture families need to know about it. Our rural areas need to know about a pending and developing strategy. Everyone says that to me. Let us start to develop the strategy now and not leave it until it is too late.”
“<BR /> <BR />If the Minister of Agriculture, the Environment and Rural Affairs intends to uphold the First Minister's commitment that, if Northern Ireland leaves the European Union, farmers can be provided for as well, if not better, we need to hear detail. We need to hear how she will develop a strategy, potentially along with her colleagues in the Department for the Economy, to provide for and secure the long-term sustainability of the agriculture and agri-food sectors. If there is to be no loss of assistance to farmers arising from the withdrawal of the existing European Union funding, the Minister needs to set out her red lines for negotiations with the British Government. Farmers and everyone in the agriculture sector need to know what those red lines are or if red lines have been developed.”
“We campaigned to stay in the European Union, and we continue to argue against Northern Ireland being dragged out of the EU against the clearly expressed wish of the people here. The deputy First Minister and his party colleagues can issue as many press releases as they like, but that will not be the argument put forward by the Executive in their discussions with the British and Irish Governments. The Executive have a responsibility, therefore, to plan for the future. The DUP and Sinn Féin have a responsibility to alleviate the concerns of those in the agriculture sector who are fearful for their livelihoods, their jobs and, indeed, their farms.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Executive seek to influence the negotiating position of the British Government in the EU as a whole and with the Irish Government in particular. That must be done. The British Government will decide on their negotiating position on their own, whatever committees the devolved regions sit in on. We will be told what that position is when the negotiations with the EU have concluded. By then, it will be too late. That really will be too late. My colleague Margaret Ritchie and I attended a meeting with Michael Creed recently with members of the Ulster Farmers' Union. We have a supportive friend in Minister Creed and, indeed, in his deputy Minister, Andrew Doyle. We collectively need to work more with them. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP opposed Brexit.”
“The Assembly can, I hope, agree on the scale of the challenge the Executive face with the loss of EU funding in the agriculture and rural sectors. To date, the Minister's response has been to create a Brexit consultative committee. I hope — we will probably hear more from the Minister — that, at this time, thoughts are being given at Executive level at that consultative committee to the development of a strategy — a strategy that does not leave us in a situation where our farmers and our agri-food sector, come 2020, drop off the edge of a cliff financially and otherwise. That has to be avoided at all costs. Irrespective of what people's views are on Brexit or not to Brexit, we must at all costs avoid that situation.”
“In its letter to the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, the Treasury said it will reassure:”
“I am sure I am not on my own in attending meetings with farmers, some very substantial, particularly in the dairy sector, where they say they find it very difficult to make ends meet in the production of their quality produce. That sector recently has included the provision of EU milk production reduction aid and exceptional adjustment aid from the EU. Access to those emergency funds would also be lost if we leave the European Union; instead, it will be the responsibility of the Executive to respond to the needs of a farming sector in financial difficulty, and they will have to find the funds to support farmers in need. <BR /> <BR />The guarantee on EU funding for the agriculture sector that the British Secretary provided relates only to pillar 1 funding.”
“Agricultural land and the food it produces would be increasingly under the control of fewer and fewer large landowners, and that is not the type of society we have here. Rural Northern Ireland and, indeed, rural Ireland, by its very history and development, is traditionally smallholding. <BR /> <BR />As the local Minister of Agriculture said, our farmers are at the heart of our agri-food industry, which has an annual turnover of almost £5 billion and 20,000 employees. We are not just talking about the loss of standing programmes of EU funding; there is also the provision of a package of measures aimed at addressing emerging financial difficulties experienced by farmers, particularly those in the dairy sector.”
“What we have here is the conundrum of a Government in Westminster who are driven towards low food costs but, at the same time, given what this Minister has said, ostensibly want to remove the subsidy for farming. I do not know how those two equate. I have not met a farmer yet who can answer that question, and they are the practitioners on the ground. <BR /> <BR />The UK farming Minister would probably prefer there to be no subsidies and, therefore, no cost to the Treasury. That, of course, would devastate our farming industry and our agri-food sector and, indeed, because of its heavy reliance on agriculture, our economy. It would, in particular, decimate our small farmers.”
“Members should know and the farming industry will know that he means that there will be cuts in the funding available to the agriculture sector when the UK leaves the EU.”
“When the UK Minister for farming tells the Executive that:”
“The response from the UK Minister for farming did not make it into the local Minister's press release, unfortunately, but, luckily, journalists were present to report that he told the sector stakeholders at the meeting that the agriculture industry would have to:”
“Our Minister of Agriculture, when she welcomed the UK Minister for farming to Northern Ireland in October, said:”
“None of these people leaves it to the last minute to develop their proposals for job creation, additional investment and the likes; they prepare them over three, four, five or six years along with their propositions, business plans etc. The availability of funding is integral to that. <BR /> <BR />As the motion states, over 70% of EU funding to Northern Ireland falls under the common agricultural policy and other rural funds. That amounts to approximately £350 million each year to farmers, which is 87% of the annual farm income. The agri-food sector is worth over £1 billion at basic prices and supports around 71,500 local jobs. We know that the Executive Office is aware of those facts, as they were in their letter to "Dear Theresa":”
“I speak in support of the motion as a representative of a predominantly rural constituency. I am very aware of the importance to farmers of the current funding that is available to them as a result of our EU membership. I am also aware of the concerns amongst farmers about the future. Those concerns and that lack of security are also about the viability of their farms and livelihoods if the Executive fail to secure replacement funding for what will be lost if we are forced to leave the European Union. That applies not just to our farmers but to businesses and the agri-food sector as they prepare their business proposals.”
“As we face into universal credit and given the difficulties with it in GB, I call on the Minister to reverse any proposed decision to close the offices.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have talked about people who are vulnerable and people who have difficulties, disabilities etc. I have looked at the equality impact screening, and it is based on this: "No figures or evidence are available to indicate this, so it must not exist". There is no evidence because the Department does not have any evidence. I have put down Assembly questions about that on issues such as gender, disability and nationality, given the migrant population that I referred to, but it does not have any stats on the usage of those offices so it cannot come to a conclusion about whether an equality impact assessment is viable or not. It does not have the evidence, so the screening is immaterial. This will cause hardship for many unemployed and low-waged residents.”
“That gives Members some idea of the background to the issue and why the proposed closure of Cookstown social security office and jobs and benefits office and the removal of those services from a local office is a matter of concern to me and others. <BR /> <BR />I move on to rural proofing, which was mentioned. No rural proofing was done on this. Five phone calls were made, and that qualifies as rural proofing in a big, scattered area that is densely populated, with the associated plethora of problems among the population. As for the relevance by way of nods to the Rural Needs Act — I really do not know. Apparently, the rural-proofing document, such as it is, has been kept under review during the consultation period. I really think that that needs to be looked at.”
“<BR /> <BR />Cookstown social security office, as was mentioned, covers an area with a population of 38,000, including a large migrant community. At the time of the 2011 census, 3·4% of the population did not have English as their first language. Public transport provision is poor, and around 16% of households do not have access to personal transport, despite the largely rural location. There are pockets of significant deprivation, with 27% of the population considered to be income-deprived, while over 3,000 are rated as employment-deprived. Additionally, 21% of people have had long-term health problems or disability.”
“I have represented the area since 1993 as a councillor and, latterly, as an MLA in the last number of years. I have had dealings with staff in the local offices and know that local accessibility has proven itself and meant a lot to so many people who find themselves in really difficult circumstances. Two cases come to mind. The first is when a family would have been made homeless but for an officer's intervention and diligence, dedication to the task and commitment to serving the community. In another case, a young single parent would have had no money to heat her house in the middle of a harsh winter. I remember vividly the two members of staff who dealt with those cases and went beyond the call of duty in their dedication. Access to that service was crucial and pivotal in helping those people in their difficult circumstances.”
“I thank the Member for bringing the Adjournment debate today. While I do not particularly welcome the occasion of it being before us, inevitably it is here — the proposal that we have to close the social security office and the jobs and benefits office.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Aire. Thanks very much, Minister. Has your Department or anyone acting on its behalf engaged with the Chancellor's office with a view to anticipating or putting together a request for such funding?”
“Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire as na freagraí. The issue around discharges was referred to earlier, and part of the problem for discharges is the lack of available domiciliary care provider packages. What input does the Minister have to ensure consistency of terms and conditions of employment, including mileage, in the independent domiciliary care provider sector, which is leading to problems with discharges?”
“What recent discussions has the Minister or the Department had on the availability of the bacillus Calmette-Guérin vaccine to prevent the spread of TB in the badger population? I appreciate that you may not have the answer at your fingertips, Minister.”
“Will the Minister advise on the guidance that has been provided to officials overseas in those bureaux on the issue of Brexit in order that, if questioned, they have a consistent and clear response?”
“Will the Minister outline for us details of any discussions or otherwise with Westminster on a replacement for the basic payment scheme?”
“I thank the Minister for that answer. I do not regard my question as cheap. Is he aware of allegations that people have been forced onto the streets due to having drug debts to the UDA?”