Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“What collaboration is or is likely to be ongoing with other Departments to get an audit of how things happened and how best to approach the issues, particularly in rural areas?”
“Minister, do you agree that, since the removal of EU rural support, much of the aid to our rural communities has diminished?”
“Thank you, Minister. For the purposes of accuracy in the debate, it is, in fact, in the Committee minutes that the key issues that were highlighted at the Committee were — yes, environmental issues — environmental standards, food standards and animal welfare. Those were the three principal issues that were highlighted. They are included in the Committee minutes.”
“I have said it before in this place, and I have to say it again: the majority of farming community members are custodians of the environment. They are custodians of the land, which has been with them for and handed down to them over generations. I would not like to think that anyone is suggesting in any way that all farmers are wrong or have breached the standards. I do not want the message to go out from this place that we are being down on farmers instead of supporting and encouraging them to adopt fresh environmental thinking and standards. Indeed, most of them already do that in practice on their land.”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, we have a flawed system that has failed farmers and, crucially, the environment. Instead of propping up ineffective regulations, we need to take a meaningful, well-resourced approach that ensures compliance, improves environmental outcomes and supports farming communities in a sustainable way and in a way that protects the environment.”
“Sorry, but I sat for numerous hours in the Chamber debating the Climate Change Bill, and I voted for it. <BR /> <BR />On the point that the Member raised about my colleagues on Belfast City Council, that is not incompatible with what was proposed at the Committee, where it was proposed that people who are potentially in serious breach of environmental, food or animal welfare standards should face penalties. If the Member does not hear that, I will repeat it: it is not incompatible with what others are suggesting. Those who are in breach of animal welfare, food or environmental standards should face the wrath of the penalties associated with those breaches. Members might not get that, but that is what was discussed in Committee. I have said it twice now.”
“I hear what the Minister says, and I hope that he was listening earlier. With the best will in the world, I was giving him advice on these matters. I thank him for his intervention. <BR /> <BR />John, you wanted to intervene.”
“I say advisedly, Minister, that we could learn lessons from what has been implemented in Scotland, where a well-resourced, advice-led approach has improved rates of compliance with farming rules and regulations. There has been broadscale support and buy-in from the farming community, while, here, we are fiddling with a system that has never worked.”
“I will let you in in a moment, John. <BR /> <BR />The Minister claims to be making polluters pay — water quality and Lough Neagh have been referred to already — but we are yet to see key plans for cleaning up our waterways. The river basin management plan and the nutrient action plan are years late. I am not laying the blame for all of that at the Minister's door. People crashed the Assembly on a number of occasions, so the responsibility lies with them. Those plans are years late, however. As it stands, the Minister's agriculture portfolio will include introducing a new set of farm sustainability standards, but we have yet to see what they will look like. We need more detail. To what extent will the standards be enforced? How will they help the Department improve compliance?”
“In fact, I sat through this at the Committee, and those of us who are acquainted with the issues — the Minister had the opportunity to look at this on a couple of occasions — suggested a tiered approach whereby those involved in flagrant breaches of environmental, food or animal welfare standards would be penalised. There was absolutely no doubt about that. It was suggested that, in the interim, if it insists on continuing with cross-compliance, the Department at least look at taking a tiered approach to penalties. Issues were, however, raised about people being opposed to the measures and taking an anti-environment approach. We have said it here and debated the matter ad nauseam: when will we have an independent environmental protection agency, as agreed in 'New Decade, New Approach'?”
“Those are the findings of the European Court of Auditors, the European Environment Agency and the Institute for European Environmental Policy. They looked at this to see whether it actually works. We need a system of farm regulation that helps to uphold environmental health and animal welfare standards while bringing farmers on a journey to improve compliance, but cross-compliance, as I have outlined and as the experts have said, is not working. <BR /> <BR />Rather than debate the minutiae of a failed penalty regime that has delivered little for the environment while putting farmers' backs up, we need to move to a new system and bring forward proposals.”
“So had you. Well, that is grand. You can start away. <BR /> <BR />Cross-compliance has ultimately proven ineffective in addressing pollution problems. Three cases of breaches have been brought forward. Each year, as little as 1% of farms are inspected, with the majority of breaches associated with improper record-keeping. Even before the previous Minister changed the penalty regime, it was clear that cross-compliance was failing to address some of the biggest challenges resulting from agriculture production. To hang your hat entirely on that as something that will address pollution problems is entirely wrong. <BR /> <BR />That is not me saying that. In the 20 years since the inception of cross-compliance, there has been little evidence that it has actually worked, and the Minister will know that. Why?”
“I welcome all the contributions today. They have been useful. Indeed, I sat through the Committee meeting and heard the views of other members, who are amply able to articulate those themselves, and I think that John has been in a different place, to be honest with you. I will deal with that.”
“— to ensure practical cross-border cooperation in key areas such as healthcare, infrastructure and economic development. No one, but no one, can dispute that.”
“All the issues that I have highlighted are to our mutual benefit. Nobody can refuse them. Nobody can say, "No, we can't go with that". <BR /> <BR />Despite Sinn Féin's rhetoric on a united Ireland, there has been a failure to progress meaningful mechanisms such as shared budgeting, which could facilitate cross-border infrastructure projects and service delivery. From our point of view, our motion highlights the failure of the Northern Ireland Executive to match the ambition of the Irish Government's Shared Island commitments. It calls for concrete actions in the form of shared budgeting —”
“Other issues include examining the establishment of an all-island skills task force, with a focus on planning, construction and infrastructure development; developing the vision set out in the all-island rail review; developing an all-island plan to improve water basin management, water quality and nature restoration; and creating an all-island nature and climate fund. All those issues were priorities in the SDLP manifesto, and they have been included in the Irish Government's visionary Programme for Government, which deals with North/South issues. <BR /> <BR />Economic modelling by ESRI confirms that greater economic integration would benefit both jurisdictions. Northern Ireland lags behind the Republic on key economic indicators. Increased collaboration could drive economic growth and investment.”
“The Irish Government's Programme for Government commits to a comprehensive shared island programme, including funding for cross-border infrastructure, economic planning and healthcare integration. In contrast, the Northern Ireland Executive have yet to produce a final Programme for Government and have not prioritised cross-border cooperation. <BR /> <BR />A number of key asks in the SDLP manifesto were around the expansion of the Shared Island unit. We already have a commitment from the Irish Government for an additional €1 billion on that front. In their Programme for Government, there is a commitment to operate on a cross-border basis — North/South and east-west — in the area of renewable energy. They also refer to deepening:”
“That emphasises the benefits of cross-border cooperation and shared economic planning. It is not just about that, because we could be working on many other issues together; however, that is not being done properly, whether it be health, the environment, education or the multitude of other key policy issues that both Governments could facilitate and work on on this island. There has been very little practical action from Sinn Féin on cross-border cooperation, despite its power to secure mechanisms, such as shared budgeting, and there has not really been any substantial progress on that. <BR /> <BR />We returned to the North/South Ministerial Council, which really has failed to live up to its full potential due to ongoing political instability, particularly the repeated suspension of the institutions here in the North.”
“I believe in that passionately and have worked through many years to facilitate and bring about that aim. <BR /> <BR />We have outlined in the motion our many issues and proposals on positive cross-border cooperation and the benefits that can accrue from it. In doing so, I have to say that the Executive have shown a lack of ambition in their Programme for Government. Indeed, that contrasts very deeply with the detailed commitments that are in the Irish Government's Programme for Government on the Shared Island initiative and others. I will return to that in a moment or two. It is very important that we make the case for such cooperation, and it makes sense for economic integration. Many companies on this island, particularly in the agri-food and agriculture sectors and others, are already doing that.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. Agus mé ag moladh an rúin, ba mhaith liom a dheimhniú don Tionól go gcreidim go fíor, agus go daingean in aontacht phobail na tíre go síochánta, le cóimheas agus le comhréiteach ar mhaithe linn uile.”
“You are in at the deep end. <BR /> <BR />I think that £165 million of public moneys were spent on Project Stratum, which has been referred to. Minister, will you get your officials to urgently convene a meeting with those providers, because, at the moment, it seems that absolute non-communication with their customers is run-of-the-mill for them? I referred five cases to Fibrus this morning, and, in the last five minutes, I have been informed of another case in which a business has been told that it will be 10 February before anyone will be out to attempt to repair its supply.”
“It maintains our commitment to playing a proactive role in reducing emissions, protecting our environment and supporting a fair transition for all sectors of our economy.”
“Furthermore, the legislation introduces valuable reforms around reserve allowances, which provide certainty for our industries while ensuring that the system remains robust as we transition to a lower-carbon economy. <BR /> <BR />We must recognise, however, the consequences of the Assembly's past inactivity. Due to the absence of a sitting Assembly, the number of allowances auctioned in 2024 was reduced. That reduction was necessary to align with the net zero cap under the Climate Change Act 2008. While that decision was necessary, it highlights how the absence of a functioning Assembly can impact on progress on addressing key challenges. <BR /> <BR />Approving the Order will allow Northern Ireland to align fully with the UK ETS framework.”
“Today, we have the opportunity to approve the greenhouse gas emissions trading scheme, which is a small but important step forward in our commitment to tackling climate change and securing a sustainable future for the North. <BR /> <BR />We should support the Order because it addresses two pressing challenges: reducing carbon leakage and accelerating our progress towards achieving net zero emissions. By expanding the scope of the ETS to include process emissions from CO2 venting in the upstream oil and gas sectors, we ensure that polluters across industries are held accountable. The Order strengthens the integrity of the trading scheme and prevents companies from seeking loopholes that would undermine our climate commitment goals. It sends an important message that all emissions, regardless of source, must be managed responsibly.”
“What collaboration or coordination is going on between the Departments and, indeed, the Executive to help to rectify issues emanating from Department for Infrastructure sewage disposal works? What support has been given to that Department to attempt to address those major issues?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagra.”
“I associate myself with all the comments about the front-line workers and their support staff, who have been doing sterling work throughout this. What support will be provided by the Executive to assist the many people in critical care, who are often housebound and, in many instances, bed-bound? Could we have a date for the restoration of water supply for the upland areas? That raises many issues around not only domestic supply but animal welfare. Finally, what liaison has there been between the Executive and the internet companies on which many of us rely for communications as well as health, education and business services?”
“As the Minister knows, Mid Ulster is a manufacturing hub that sends products all across the world. Digital skills are particularly important in the development of many businesses, especially those in the manufacturing sectors. What specific plans does the Department have for that industry and, in particular, for the development of artificial intelligence and how that relates to some of those businesses?”
“Minister, in the instance of people who are self-employed, such as those in the farming community, the gap of five weeks, which is how long it can take until eligibility is established for universal credit, can be financially very painful. Can you advise of the elements of welfare support that are available in those instances to help people to bridge that five-week gap?”
“Thank you for that, Minister. If that is the case, I thank you for your intervention and welcome the fact that that information will be made readily available on the public record.”
“Minister, we have heard on many occasions about the effluent from sewage disposal works that is going into the watercourse. In the past, you committed to officials from your Department meeting DFI and NI Water officials, and you said that they have done so. Will you advise us on the outcome of those meetings to remedy the situation whereby effluent is going into our watercourses quite frequently?”
“Minister, there has been some speculation that a person is to be appointed to engage with those illegal groups. Can you confirm or deny that? Obviously, there are those of us who are concerned that, given that a lot of years have passed since the Good Friday Agreement, that would risk legitimising illegal paramilitary groups rather than rectifying the behaviour of those who are engaged in paramilitary activity such as drug dealing and other nefarious activities.”
“First, I want to pay tribute to the Education Service staff who do that with such professionalism and are so engaged with Members and their staff as well as with the pupils and teachers. It is really beneficial. Are further, more-strategic, cross-border activities with schools anticipated?”
“The Minister mentioned that she had written to Ministers. What response did you receive, or has a response been received yet?”
“As already referred to today, one group that will potentially be affected are mushroom growers, who are not eligible for land-based programmes such as the basic farm payment or the Department for the Economy's energy efficiency scheme. The mushroom industry has already felt the impact of Brexit with the restricted access to labour through the seasonal agricultural workers scheme. I am glad that the Minister announced today that support will continue, at least for the future, I hope, on a stable basis when it is required for the mushroom industry. The best place for that would be to incorporate it in a comprehensive agriculture Bill, and I hope that the Minister will clarify that we will get a comprehensive and embracing agriculture Bill for the North, similar to legislation that has been introduced elsewhere.”
“The British Government have, in effect, washed their hands of responsibility, and it is now up to the AERA Minister to find the required funding. The financial support for producer organisations will, in future, come from whatever level of budget the Minister can negotiate with his Executive colleagues from the block grant. Making that funding discretionary will mean that it will be entirely up to the Minister to decide which programmes are funded and which are not. It is not a particularly enviable position that the Minister has been placed in as a consequence, it has to be said, of Brexit. <BR /> <BR />Under those circumstances, it is not difficult to understand the concerns of producer organisations about the level of future financial support, but not all producer organisations will be equally affected.”
“They play a very important role in promoting environmentally sound cultivation practices in production techniques and, indeed, climate change mitigation. <BR /> <BR />This Bill introduces uncertainty over future funding for those organisations and, almost inevitably, cuts to the financial support available to them. It risks leaving producer organisations in the North at a disadvantage — I hope that the Minister will underpin that that will not be the case — particularly when they are in competition with organisations that are still in the EU. Inevitably, this is another consequence of Brexit. The financial support was previously provided from EU funding streams. As with other EU funds, the British Government have not properly replaced it.”
“Both Scotland and Wales have already introduced that legislation, but we are still waiting. <BR /> <BR />The Bill may be small, but it is not insignificant. It is largely technical legislation that allows for changes to be made to the funding provided by the Department to producer organisations for operational programmes. That funding is to become discretionary where previously, as long as the programmes met certain requirements, funding was mandatory. Producer organisations enable farmers and growers in a variety of sectors to strengthen their position in the supply chain and increase competitiveness. It is very important that we provide support to producer organisations to make sure that a fair price, in effect, goes to farmers, who are the ultimate producers.”
“The SDLP welcomes the Second Stage of the Bill. I look forward to examining the Bill and its implications more closely during the Committee Stage, should it pass its Second Stage; hopefully, it will. However, it is somewhat disappointing that the Minister has been unable to introduce the comprehensive agriculture Bill that is required. A comprehensive agriculture Bill, unlike the one before us, would provide a clear purpose for future agricultural policy. It would set out clear objectives for the use of agricultural funding to guide policy decisions and is necessary to provide a strategic direction for agriculture here. I am sure that the Minister will respond later, so will he will introduce a domestic agriculture Bill before the end of the mandate?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht an Bille a thabhairt os ár gcomhair.”
“Minister, I will follow on from the theme that we were exploring. How will you work with Minister Lyons and his officials to develop any new energy efficiency scheme, and how should any scheme designed as part of those efforts benefit everyone or as many people as possible, including those in the private rented sector?”
“Minister, on Monday 12 May 1997, Seán Brown was abducted and murdered by loyalist paramilitaries. Have you made any representations to the British Government on the legacy legislation, which is denying so many people, including the Brown family, access to justice?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis.”
“A carer's allowance recognition payment was recommended by the independent review of welfare mitigations: does the Minister intend to introduce it?”
“I thank the Minister. I am not singling out his Department, because those of us who live in and represent rural areas are saying that many of our services are being stripped, whether it is health with GP services and, particularly, domiciliary care; infrastructure investment in housing or roads; or, indeed, the overall issue of sewage disposal. Therefore, it is cross-departmental. What can the Minister do, through legislative change, to drive those Departments to be much more effective in tailoring support to rural areas that are being deprived of services?”
“Previously, it was said that the business plan would be revised now that the outcome of the internal relocation exercise is known. Will the deputy First Minister provide us with an update on that work, please?”
“Thank you very much, and I thank the Member for his intervention. I get entirely what he says about loads of take-note debates but little rubber hitting the road when it comes to Executive action. That is exactly the point. <BR /> <BR />In that regard, if we are serious about that and seriously want to help farmers, Members and parties in the Chamber can do so. They can negotiate. The Minister can negotiate on our behalf. He has committed to doing that, and parties can call on their colleagues in the Executive to support the Minister's bid to ring-fence funding for agriculture locally. They should also lobby those colleagues to support the provision of any additional funding required for the proposals brought forward by the sheep industry task force. That is when we will see the colour of the money.”
“The new rules for inheritance tax on agricultural land pose a risk and, indeed, a big worry for many who are thinking of farm succession. Instead of managing our ring-fenced fund for agriculture, the Minister will now be faced with the dilemma of negotiating with his Executive colleagues for a share of the block grant. As I have said before and as, I expect, the Minister will repeat today, it was within the power of the Executive to ring-fence funding for agriculture locally. They could, if they wish, put additional funding within that ring fence to provide for the proposals brought forward by the sheep industry task force. If Members are serious in their concern —.”
“I believe that the Minister and his officials met the task force to discuss the report, and I am sure that the Minister will respond to that. The Minister has indicated that he is keen to understand the sector's needs and will consider adopting proposals to meet them. However, that was in the context of ring-fenced farm support funding provided by the British Government. That would have been challenging enough; however, since Brexit, the annual funding for agriculture has been capped at approximately £330 million. To maintain its real value, the overall funding for agriculture should have increased to £389 million by now. That is a real-term cut in funding of around £60 million this year alone. <BR /> <BR />Following the British Government's autumn Budget, the situation has changed again.”
“In order to safeguard its future viability, it must be an attractive career option with pathways for new entrants and farm succession. <BR /> <BR />Despite the sector's importance, there was a lack of specific measures to support sheep farmers in the future agricultural policy for the North that was developed under the previous Minister. The Ulster Farmers' Union has expressed its concern that sheep farmers now face losing 17% from the basic payment scheme. It is concerned that funding for maedi-visna control measures has been withdrawn and that there is no more funding for the sheep scab scheme. <BR /> <BR />In January 2023, the sheep industry task force published a report identifying the sheep sector's needs and made proposals to encourage its development.”