Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“I had numerous reports at the tail end of last week about foul tastes and odours from the water supply. Young mothers are afraid to give it to their babies through the food that they are providing. I have had a lot of calls about foul taste and foul odours; indeed, I found it in the tea and coffee as well. <BR /> <BR />Can the Minister say today, if he has the information with him, whether additional or extra chemicals have been added to the water supply? If so, what are they? Secondly, the Minister mentioned the testing mechanisms: what testing is being done, where and how often to ensure the fitness of the water for human consumption?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Aire, as bheith anseo leis na freagraí a thabhairt dúinn.”
“There are reports that you plan to phase out industrial derating. Will you clarify whether that is the case? I am sure that you agree with the rest of us that it is a substantial advantage and its removal would be severely disadvantageous to many of our SMEs and manufacturing businesses, particularly given their dual access to the respective markets.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Aire, as bheith anseo leis na freagraí a thabhairt dúinn.”
“The Minister will be aware that that report was published in March 2022. It is now 30 months' old. At what stage will we have an injection of a bit of vitality into the decision-making process? It is a good scheme, but it would be well worthwhile to take on board and implement a number of the report's recommendations.”
“Minister, you touched on something that inspired me to follow another line of thinking. On the just transition and the economy, what support or other measures have been discussed with the Department for the Economy, particularly the on-farm and in-yard measures that could be implemented to support that transition, especially with the disposal of slurry?”
“Minister, what is the projected overall cost of the implementation of the Lough Neagh action plan, and, of that projected overall cost, how much has been assured to date?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It is rather unfortunate, however, Minister, that you are making a statement on Lough Neagh on your own, without Executive buy-in. You announced 37 actions, 20 of which are within your remit. I understand why you had to make the statement, but can you give us any indication of why there is no buy-in and support for the remaining 17 actions that, as you outlined, require cross-cutting and other departmental input?”
“As I have repeatedly said, the SDLP is willing to work constructively with the Minister on Lough Neagh, on a just transition to net zero and on establishing an independent environmental protection agency, but Executive parties really need to work together much more constructively on those and other issues. Otherwise, it will be an abject failure. <BR /> <BR />Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leat as cuireadh a thabhairt domh labhairt.”
“There is no just transition fund for agriculture to assist farmers to make the necessary changes in farming practice. It is an absolute requirement to facilitate that transition by way of training and grant aid and to move to new farming and agricultural methods. Those are essential elements of the Climate Change Act that are required if we are to achieve the net zero target by 2050. The longer that it takes to start the process of a just transition, the more difficult that transition will be. It is also vital that we define exactly what that just transition is, yet not only are those elements of the Climate Change Act missing but there is still a lack of clarity about that definition. <BR /> <BR />I raised those issues with the AERA Minister during his appearances at the Committee, so he is well aware of our party's concerns.”
“Given the delay in agreeing to the targets in the Climate Change Act, we had a short time to start to take action. Due to the DUP's boycott of the Executive, the deadline for setting the first carbon budget has been missed. The deadline for the first carbon action plan has also been missed. <BR /> <BR />It was recognised that achieving the ambitious targets that are in the Climate Change Act would require advice and assistance in order for it to be available for all sectors, particularly agriculture, yet, despite the urgent need to act, the required just transition commission is not in place. The First Minister and deputy First Minister have not established the office of climate commissioner, and no one has been appointed to the post.”
“Many of our towns are in paralysis because of the lack of investment in the waste water disposal system. Sewage disposal works are at or beyond capacity. That has an effect on the delivery of social and private housing and on retail and commercial developments. Consequentially, there is an impact on the cost of housing. Hopefully, any negotiations between the Executive and, what we hope will be, an incoming Labour Government will render at least some investment in the improvements that are so needed for all our vital agencies. <BR /> <BR />Another area in which the Executive have not delivered is climate change and, in particular, the just transition to net zero. When the Assembly passed the Climate Change Act in 2022, we set ambitious targets for the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions for all sectors of our economy to achieve.”
“The key actions that were recommended at the start of the year included: enforcing existing regulations; reducing the level of phosphorous in animal feed; developing a policy to reduce or eliminate the use of chemical phosphorous fertiliser on grasslands; bringing forward an updated nitrates action programme; and making additional investment in our waste water network. The estimated additional costs for the necessary upgrading of 18 waste water treatment works that have an impact on Lough Neagh was £131 million. If Executive parties are serious about improving the poor water quality in our rivers and lakes, further investment will be needed in the water and waste water network across the North. <BR /> <BR />The additional moneys for social housing were mentioned, and that is very welcome indeed.”
“In some pictures taken by the PSNI last week, the blooms were very visible. They are re-emerging. The Assembly is about to go into summer recess, and the Executive parties have not delivered a rescue plan for the lough. In fairness to the AERA Minister, it is not necessarily because of a lack of ambition on his part. <BR /> <BR />We know what is needed to address the excessive levels of nutrients in the lough that fuel the algae blooms. All parties and MLAs received the briefings from DAERA about its priorities.”
“We owe it to our people to do all that we humanly can, especially on health. Nevertheless, I will move on to the scripted speech that I intended to give, but Dr Aiken inspired me to raise that issue first. <BR /> <BR />The environment and ecological crisis that we face in the North demands long-term strategic thinking and action, but the Executive have repeatedly failed to deliver what is required. The Budget demonstrates that. Nowhere is the absence of long-term strategic thinking more apparent than in the Executive's failure to deliver for Lough Neagh. <BR /> <BR />It is almost exactly a year since the devastating algae blooms shut down activity on the lough. The stench and sight of the blooms were apparent, as were their effects. We are now back in the summer months, and the blooms are, in fact, recurring on the lough.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Day and daily, we hear of cases, and it honestly seems to be getting worse. The required investment would at least help to break the back of some of the waiting lists, which are getting longer and longer.”
“I listened intently to Dr Aiken's emphasis on health in his contribution. I am sure that all our offices receive correspondence about waiting lists, childcare and paediatric health issues. Some of the cases could take a tear from a stone. I raised this point earlier in response to the Minister of Health's statement: there is a need for the re-establishment of the cross-border healthcare directive to help reduce waiting lists. We all know and recognise the need for cross-border cooperation on health. We often talk about it in the Chamber. It makes sense. If we can in some way alleviate the problem of our major waiting lists, why not do it? Why not collaborate with the Irish Government and Minister Donnelly to see what can conceivably be done? The health service is on its knees.”
“DFC was able to fund only 400 social house starts for 2024-25. That represents a decrease of 73·4%. The £20 million allocation is welcome. How many starts will that provide?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis.”
“Thank you for your statement, Minister. Was there any discussion with Minister Donnelly about a replacement for the cross-border healthcare directive to help to tackle our waiting lists?”
“I am glad to hear that at least some work is commencing to address the problems. You referred to remedial works and health and safety works. Any of us who travel through the Building will have seen buckets full of water in the middle of corridors, which is not an ideal situation, and water ingress towards the electrics. Staff are having to work under those circumstances. Mr Clarke, has a structural assessment been made of the damage done to the structure of the Building by persistent water ingress?”
“Minister, we all want to support you as you continue your work, but will you indicate who refused to sign off on the Executive meeting on Thursday and the reason that was given for that?”
“Minister, paragraphs 11 and 14 of your statement are to do with cross-jurisdictional research projects between the Republic of Ireland and the Government in the North. In particular, paragraph 14 refers to blue-green algae. I know that that is a problem that affects not just Lough Neagh and that there are waterways in the Republic where a similar problem arises. Is there potential there for cooperation — the Small Business Research Initiative (SBRI), now Innovate UK Contracts for Innovation, has been mentioned — between both jurisdictions around the science and remedial work associated with blue-green algae?”
“First Minister, we are approaching six months since the Executive were restored. Will you detail the responsibilities of each junior Minister?”
“Minister, what engagement is there between your Department and the Department for Infrastructure on the lack of capacity at NI Water, which is causing paralysis of development in many areas, including social housing?”
“Thanks, Minister. Will you give us an indication of what the obstacles were to the action plan moving from the Executive on Thursday?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Can the Minister expand on the direction from the Office for Environmental Protection? If the Department had ignored the direction, what would the implications have been for the Department and any other approvals given on the basis of the standing guidelines used at the NIEA prior and subsequent to the direction? That include the implications for the Department and approved applicants.”
“— to instruct the Minister to ignore environmental regulations in order to fast-track that investment, which is not the proper way forward. I would welcome clarification from those who tabled the motion —”
“Again, those of us who are concerned about public funds, including those of us who sat through the renewable heat incentive (RHI) inquiry, certainly do not want to see money being spent recklessly or fines being incurred that will then be passed on to other people who got planning permissions based on a decision that the Office for Environmental Protection subsequently found to be wrong. <BR /> <BR />I agree that investment in and replacement of farm buildings are essential in improving agriculture's environmental footprint and that, where or if a mechanism can be established to show how betterment has been achieved — either collectively, through a number of applications, or individually — that process definitely has to be looked at again. The motion, in effect, seeks —”
“It raises issues for not only the Department but any approvals granted that the Office for Environmental Protection subsequently finds to be illegal. I certainly do not want to be, in a few years, having to represent constituents who are found to have had buildings erected that are non-compliant. That is certainly not where I want to be. It was outlined to us that DAERA's decision had to be made because of the threat of legal action that was hanging over the Department by the independent Office for Environmental Protection. I do not know how much it would have cost had the Department not taken action.”
“When a new, delayed ammonia strategy eventually went out for public consultation, the DUP had already collapsed the Executive. That is why DAERA officials were left to make the decision that the proposers of the motion are complaining about. The Department introduced an interim approach to dealing with planning applications in a legally compliant way, using site-specific advice. We have to get to the point where that site-specific advice is proven to give a betterment. Those are the situations that we need to see emerging now. <BR /> <BR />Any new ammonia strategy will also need to be legally compliant, otherwise it raises major issues for the Department. I would welcome clarification from the Minister on that.”
“The PAC heard recently that, where a proposal comes from a developer — a farmer — that establishes betterment in environmental quality, that can be taken into consideration. I make it very clear that I accept that fully. We should all aim for that. <BR /> <BR />Almost all the legally protected sites in the North are experiencing levels of ammonia, air pollution and nitrogen deposits that are known to be harmful to the habitats. The Minister and the Executive have a legal and moral obligation to protect those sites. We have known about the problem with ammonia emissions here for some time, and we have known that the approach being taken to address the problem is flawed. The then Minister for Infrastructure, Nichola Mallon, said:”
“The strategy was developed under the stewardship of a Sinn Féin Agriculture Minister and continued by a DUP Minister. That strategy was adopted despite the fact that Northern Ireland was already exceeding safe ammonia thresholds, and the link between ammonia emissions and water quality is absolutely clear. The British Government have established an international commitment to reduce ammonia emissions by 8% in 2020 and 16% in 2030 compared with 2005 levels. However, here, instead of a reduction, unfortunately, we saw an increase in ammonia emissions of over 11% from 2005 to 2021. Those of us who were at the Committee saw the implications and ramifications of that. We heard that from NIEA.”
“I welcome the motion, and I agree that investment in new and replacement farm buildings is essential in improving agriculture's environmental footprint. However, any valid concerns that the proposers of the motion may have about farm investment and farm income can be lost in their complaint about environmental regulations. Let us be very clear: investment in farms cannot be done regardless of the wider environmental cost. We have seen the effects of policy being adopted where increased productivity is prioritised over concerns about the environment. The steady and sharp rise recorded in the levels of nitrates in Lough Neagh since 2017 has been directly attributed to the adoption of the Executive's Going for Growth strategy.”
“Is there any complementarity in research or scientific work that could be undertaken on an all-island basis?”
“Thank you, Minister, for the statement. A lot of areas were covered, and I seek a bit more detail on some of them. <BR /> <BR />You mentioned cooperation on rural development and on sharing information and best practice. Will there be some mechanism for providing us with more detail on those, aside from today's statement, of course? What are the actualities when it comes to cooperation between both jurisdictions on those matters of mutual interest and concern? <BR /> <BR />Secondly, you stated that Ministers noted a presentation on water quality and the science and innovation that are being harnessed. Does that include blue-green algae? I know that parts of the rest of the island suffer from that plague in our waterways, although maybe not to the same extent as we do in Lough Neagh.”
“Cén fáth nár chuir Oifig an Choiste Feidhmiúcháin iarratas caipitil atarlaithe DEL isteach i leith léas na heagraíochta teanga? Nach cinnte gur infheistíocht fhadtéarmach é?”
“— if the public were sceptical about some parties' declaration of support for a free press.”
“It has been reported that as many as 10 journalists and 10 lawyers have been subjected to covert surveillance since 2011. How often, we do not know. <BR /> <BR />The Policing Board is due to meet again this month to receive a further report on the extent of the surveillance of legal professionals and journalists. However, that meeting will not be held in public, and it is unlikely that the report will be made public. Also, it has to be said, it did not inspire confidence in the Policing Board when a senior member of Sinn Féin, who sits on the board, had a recent court ruling go against him for his own attempt to intimidate and silence journalists with a SLAPP. SLAPP, of course, is the acronym for strategic lawsuits against public participation, which is a tactic used by the rich and powerful to silence troublesome journalists.”
“The tribunal is also investigating two other instances of police surveillance against Mr McCaffrey in 2011 and 2013. The BBC has instructed lawyers to contact the tribunal about covert surveillance of Vincent Kearney in 2011, when he investigated the independence of the Police Ombudsman. Mr Kearney is now the Northern editor with RTÉ. <BR /> <BR />The Policing Board has been left playing catch-up on this. It was not until September last year that the board asked the PSNI whether it had conducted surveillance of journalists or lawyers since 2011. It took the police eight months to produce a report that the Alliance Party representative on the board described as being "utterly vague". That report was produced by the Chief Constable only after the covert surveillance of journalists here was made public by the tribunal in London.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I have attended a number of inquests where that has happened. It is disgusting. That is all that you can say about it. That is why I qualified my remarks at the start for the Alliance Party: if there is any aspect of this where people or the police are being evasive, and where they are seen to be withholding or delaying the release of information, I respectfully ask that the Minister dutifully acts. <BR /> <BR />For at least a decade, on a regular basis, the PSNI unlawfully trawled through the phone data of at least eight journalists, trying to identify their sources. Following their unlawful arrests in 2018, Barry McCaffrey and Trevor Birney were subjected to covert surveillance in a further bid to identify their source.”
“It is only because the two journalists made a complaint to the investigatory powers tribunal in 2019 that a hearing is being held, and it is only because of that hearing that we have evidence of the unlawful spying operation. It is rare for such hearings to be in public, and it is an indication of the seriousness of the issue that they are being held in public in this case. However, a full hearing will not be held until October because the initial hearing was adjourned on its first day due to the late disclosure of police documents. What has been revealed is truly shocking.”
“In July 2020, the then Chief Constable, Simon Byrne, apologised to the journalists, and substantial damages were paid, amounting to a reported £875,000. That was all in relation to the documentary 'No Stone Unturned', which my colleague referred to. It investigated allegations of collusion in the UVF murders of six men in Loughinisland in 1994. <BR /> <BR />It is thanks to the courage and tenacity of Trevor Birney and Barry McCaffrey that we now know about the industrial-scale spying operation used against journalists here.”
“I trust that she will clarify that. I also argue that the evidence compels her to act now, because this is not simply an operational matter for the Policing Board to review; this is about public confidence that the police will act lawfully and about how they are held accountable if they do not. As Trevor Birney, one of the journalists at the heart of the story, has said, it is also about an undermining of freedom of the press in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Trevor Birney and Barry McCaffrey were arrested in August 2018, and their homes and offices were raided. In May 2019, the Court of Appeal in Belfast quashed the warrants for their arrest. The court ruled that there was:”
“I, of course, support of the motion, and I will qualify my response to the amendment. A free press is the cornerstone of any democratic society, and that has been repeated on multiple occasions here. It has a vital role in speaking truth to power. Journalists have not only a duty but a legal right to protect their sources. Surveillance of journalists and their sources has a deliberately chilling effect on the media, a key cornerstone of our democracy. <BR /> <BR />I have listened to Members talk about the amendment, and I trust that the amendment tells us that the Minister will not sit on her hands, doing nothing and simply waiting until the Policing Board asks her to act. I put in the rider — it is up to the Minister to qualify it — that, if she determines that there is any aspect of kicking the tin down the alley, she will act.”
“Will my colleague clarify whether planning permission was approved by the council or a Department, which would have been the Department of the Environment (DOE) at the time?”
“First, Minister, I convey my heartiest congratulations on your appointment. Let us hope that it is a productive and fruitful one. <BR /> <BR />Returning to community pharmacy, will you pledge to look at the issue of clawback by the Department from community pharmacists? That is one issue that has been raised time and again with me by local community pharmacists as being something that is driving many of them to a financial tipping point. Already, we have heard that, in the past 18 months, 12 such community pharmacies have had to close in Northern Ireland. Minister, will you have a wee look at that, please, and see what can be done? It seems that a spin is being placed on the situation by the Department, which probably requires you giving it a critical eye to see if it can be resolved.”
“With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I convey my sincere sympathies to the Gildernew family on the untimely and sudden loss of Fiachra. Go ndéana Dia trócaire ar a anam.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he accept that any cuts to domiciliary care, difficult though it is at the moment, will result in one thing: increased pressures on the NHS? There will be increased use of contingency beds, more people requiring funding to go into nursing homes and more people, ultimately, winding up back in hospital.”