Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“The Committee has therefore recommended the establishment of a steering group that includes representatives from all levels of government, the education and skills sectors, and business, employee and community representative organisations to develop and implement the vision and strategy. <BR /> <BR />The Committee has seen how a long-term vision can work in Stuttgart with partnership working between various interests. I would like to take this opportunity to record the Committee's gratitude to the representatives of the Stuttgart region who took the time to provide members with a detailed understanding of how government supports businesses in that part of Germany.”
“The key elements of the vision should be: that it is articulated so that all parties understand it and can buy into it; that it is rolling in that it keeps being updated and refreshed as important external factors change; that it is shared across government at all levels and across the private and public sectors; and that it is a vision not only for what the economy will look like but for how all parties work together to develop the economy. <BR /> <BR />The vision for the economy must be driven by an overarching strategy for economic development. The Committee acknowledges that an economic strategy exists, but government must start to work in partnership across the business sector, the employee sector and the education, skills and community sectors.”
“Although such questions cannot be answered with any level of accuracy, we need to be aware of them and start to plan, manage and develop answers and begin to plan strategically for where we want to be by 2030 and beyond. <BR /> <BR />We need to be in a position where we have influence and control over the answers to those questions by providing the right conditions for investment. That is why we need a rolling 20-year vision.”
“We need to be bold, forward-thinking and visionary. <BR /> <BR />We are told that a reduced level of corporation tax could potentially bring up to 40,000 jobs by 2030. That is only 15 years away. How was that figure determined? Where will those jobs be located? Will we have an additional 40,000 cars travelling into Belfast, or will the jobs be located across the region? Will we have adequate housing to accommodate the people whom those jobs will bring, or will it create a property boom that we cannot sustain in the long term? We have already had some of that. Will our transport infrastructure be able to cope? What sectors will those jobs be in? Will we have the skilled people to fill those vacancies?”
“There is no point in trying to attract a data centre to south Antrim if we do not have the required level of connectivity. There is no point in trying to attract a manufacturing company to mid-Ulster if it cannot get the electricity supply that it requires. What is needed is a fully integrated approach — a joined-up approach between Departments that involves all district councils with input from the business, employee and community sectors. <BR /> <BR />The key recommendation from the inquiry is for a rolling 20-year shared vision and strategy for economic development. It is difficult to see where we will be in 20 years' time. The Programme for Government provides a firm five-year plan, but it should do so with a view to what is expected to transpire in the five years beyond that and how that is likely to impact in the longer-term future.”
“Worryingly, there is no recognition that a problem exists. There was no evidence that there is any agreed approach at Executive level to look at how policies can be better integrated in future. <BR /> <BR />If we are to create an attractive environment for business investment, we must make sure that we have a workforce with the skills that businesses will need into the future. We must make sure that we have the right infrastructure in place for key services such as transport, energy, telecoms and water, and we must make sure that those are adequately developed across the North, not just in pockets here and there. There is no point in trying to attract a large financial services company to north Down if we cannot provide that company with an appropriately skilled workforce.”
“The fundamental problem is that there is just not enough of this sort of thing happening and that what is being done is not always being done at a high enough level. <BR /> <BR />Key business representative organisations have demonstrated that there is no overall long-term, strategic, integrated approach to economic development. Long-term policies within Executive Departments often seem to be developed in isolation and with little consideration of the wider needs of other areas of government. Many policies are not sufficiently strategic. They are not aligned to a strategic vision. They fail to see beyond the four- or five-year Programme for Government cycle. There is no evidence of a strategic, joined-up approach, horizontally between Executive Departments or vertically between regional and local government.”
“It is important, however, to highlight the fact that the recommendations in this inquiry remain relevant regardless of whether or not corporation tax is devolved and regardless of the rate at which corporation tax will be set in the future. Personally speaking, I hope and trust that we will see progress on that. <BR /> <BR />This is about getting our economic house in order to make Northern Ireland attractive to investors as a good place to do business. I would like to start off by commending the positive and constructive work that is being undertaken by some of our Departments, arm's-length bodies and district councils to support business growth and job creation. There are a number of examples highlighted in the report where policies focus on business needs and demonstrate a joined-up approach between various parts of government.”
“The Committee has looked at every relevant aspect of Government and at how the decisions made at the Executive table can influence the economy here. We have heard repeatedly that the devolution of corporation tax is not the silver bullet that will solve all our economic problems at one stroke. It was with this in mind that the Committee undertook the inquiry. The Committee sought to achieve three aims through the inquiry: first, to identify the main factors that will influence economic development in the future; secondly, to assess the adequacy of current provision in relation to those factors; and, thirdly, to make recommendations where improvements are needed. <BR /> <BR />The inquiry was undertaken on the assumption that corporation tax would be devolved and that the rate would be reduced significantly from 2017.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Ba mhaith liom toiseacht anseo agus mo bhuíochas a ghabháil le gach aon duine a thug eolas dúinn i rith an fhiosrúcháin. I would like to start by thanking all those who gave evidence to the Committee during this inquiry: those who provided written submissions, those who corresponded with the Committee and those who attended the Committee to give oral evidence. I would also like to thank officials from the Department and Invest NI who provided written submissions and attended the Committee. I would particularly like to thank the Committee staff for their support, and indeed members for their input and scrutiny throughout the inquiry. <BR /> <BR />The inquiry has been very comprehensive.”
“Thank you. The need to investigate how primary schools can be supported in the delivery of The World Around Us through a variety of means is crucial.”
“The report argued for the need to encourage and support the full implementation of the science and technology strand of The World Around Us to bring about high-quality learning for all children.”
“For instance, the Education and Training Inspectorate's evaluation of the implementation of The World Around Us in primary schools found that those schools remain more confident about their provision in history and geography.”
“<BR /> <BR />Just this morning, I spoke to a couple of very successful local employers who go to schools to invite them into their businesses, and they are investing in the training for those subjects in their businesses; they are not reliant on the education sector. Such is the demand for success in those businesses that they cannot wait, and they are doing it. I know of two very successful businesses in my constituency that are doing precisely that. That is why they are successful: they get on with it. <BR /> <BR />During the discussions previously mentioned, I recognised that all those reports held consistent themes.”
“For instance, the Education and Training Inspectorate's evaluation of the implementation of The World Around Us in primary schools found that schools remain more confident about the quality of their provision in history and geography, in thinking skills and in personal capabilities. Nearly 50% believed that they did not include the progression of the relevant practical experiential skills in science and technology in their planning. Those schools cited various reasons for that, including competing priorities such as literacy, numeracy, assessment and the lack of access to training.”
“<BR /> <BR />Last March, the Committee for Education debated another STEM in schools motion that asked the Committee to recognise the merit of several reports highlighting the importance of STEM subjects. Those reports included the Education and Training Inspectorate's (ETI) evaluation of the implementation of The World Around Us, referred to earlier by my colleague Mr Rogers; the Confederation of British Industry's 'Step Change: A new approach for schools in Northern Ireland' report, Momentum's digital sector action plan, and the Engineering UK 2015 report. <BR /> <BR />During those discussions, I recognised that all those reports held consistent themes.”
“I specifically make note of the yearly 10% expansion of the digital sector in the North, and I find such statistics very encouraging. The expansion of such industries being taken advantage of depends entirely on the guidance that we provide to pupils on STEM-based subjects. <BR /> <BR />In February, the Department for Employment and Learning produced a report on the enrolments at higher education institutions during 2013-14. Unsurprisingly, less than 50% — 46·4% — of NI students were studying broad STEM-related subjects, and even less — 24·5% — of the North's students were studying narrow STEM subjects. The report also indicated that non-STEM-related enrolments remained among the most prominent in Northern Ireland — education, business and administration, and social sciences.”
“<BR /> <BR />Increasingly, we see the demand rising for individuals who have qualifications in STEM subjects and for those in training in specific and technical skills. Naturally, as demand rises, so too does the value of skills, and those who possess STEM qualifications find that they are in a much stronger position in today's competitive job market. I have no doubt that studying STEM subjects opens up a wide variety of exciting and rewarding career opportunities, and I know from successful students in my constituency — Mrs Overend has already mentioned some — that those opportunities may range from positions in Dubai to the United States of America. <BR /> <BR />As the economy modernises and progresses in Northern Ireland, we see the natural expansion of our job market and, in particular, we see the increase of STEM-related industries.”
“I concur with the Member in extending our sincere congratulations to the students of Cookstown High School. Hopefully, that is the future. I hope that they are not on their own, because the work will be there for them, and, rather than people having to go to mainland Europe — as some of the top firms in the locality have done — to seek workers, they will be here. <BR /> <BR />Previously, motions called on specific Ministers to lead the way and, in previous debates, I noted that it is not simply one single Minister's role, as has occurred during our inquiry in the Enterprise Committee. Such major shifts in our educational focus in skills development require the joined-up approach not just from the Education and the Employment Ministers, but from the entire Executive. I am happy to see that today's motion argues for that as well.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the motion and the opportunity to take part in the debate. The Assembly can be in no doubt about the importance that STEM subjects — science, technology, engineering and mathematics — have in building a modern and prosperous economy. This morning, I attended an event in Cookstown that was organised by Danske Bank, with local manufacturers, many of which were from precision engineering works and the engineering industry. The constituency is very successful in that regard. Their emphasis was on a skilled, good workforce, and they said that they have the jobs. <BR /> <BR />Previously, the Assembly —”
“Go raibh maith agat don Aire as a fhreagra. I thank the Minister for his response. Will he clarify for me how the strategy will be directed at those most in need: people not in employment, education or training?”
“This includes penalties that will apply to recognised professional bodies if they do not maintain a satisfactory standard of regulation. It also gives the Department the power to intervene directly by applying to the court, as the Minister outlined, for action to be taken against an IP. Having had sight of the proposed amendments during Committee Stage, the Committee was content that they be made to the Bill at Consideration Stage. <BR /> <BR />That concludes my comments on behalf of the Committee, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker.”
“This would include requirements for appropriate training; ensuring consistent outcomes; providing high-quality services; acting transparently and with integrity; considering the interests of all creditors in a case; promoting the maximisation of the value of returns; and protecting and promoting the public interest. Officials stated that those issues will be enshrined in legislation through the Westminster Bill, and it is the Department’s intention to include similar provisions in a future insolvency Bill. The Committee was broadly content with that approach. However, the Minister subsequently wrote to the Committee confirming that provisions for an effective route to policing and controlling the conduct of insolvency practitioners would be included in the current Bill by way of an amendment at Consideration Stage.”
“Officials informed the Committee that they intended to recommend to the Minister that, in future legislation, a regulatory objective be put in place. That would require the regulated professional bodies to ensure that objectives and principles are put in place to regulate insolvency professionals. I would like at this stage to pay tribute to Mr Allister for his correspondence to the Committee, which highlighted in a very real and human manner the regulatory deficiencies in the system and in the legislation until now around this regulatory aspect.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle, agus mo bhuíochas leis an Aire. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and I thank the Minister. This group is concerned with recognised professional bodies and insolvency practitioners. There are 12 amendments to clause 14, in particular, new clauses 14A to 14H, clause 15 and schedule 3. <BR /> <BR />The group 2 amendments relate to the regulation of insolvency practitioners. The Committee raised the issue of a statutory code of conduct with the Department during the Committee Stage of the Bill. Officials responded that there is no provision in the Bill for a code of conduct. However, in GB, provision is included in the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill going through Westminster.”
“<BR /> <BR />Following Committee Stage, the Department informed the Committee of amendments to schedules 2 and 3 that would be brought at Consideration Stage to repeal references to being authorised to act as a nominee or supervisor. As the Committee had not been given time to consider and agree the amendments at Committee Stage, those amendments were also noted by the Committee. That concludes my comments on this group, a Cheann Comhairle.”
“The UK would be in breach of that directive if the North did not bring in partial authorisation. Someone who is partially authorised in GB under the Westminster Deregulation Act 2015 is entitled to practise on the same basis in Northern Ireland. On that basis, the Committee was content with clause 14 as drafted. <BR /> <BR />The Minister subsequently wrote on 15 May to inform the Committee that the Insolvency Service in GB has advised that it does not now intend to bring the provision forward in that way but will instead make the case that the present system is sufficient to comply with the requirements of the EU services directive. As this and other amendments to clause 14 were not considered by the Committee until after Committee Stage, the amendments were noted by the Committee.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Department assured the Committee that IPs would be free to become authorised in either personal or company cases, or both. If there is any doubt about whether a particular case fits into one or other category, a short interview with the person concerned should establish the facts of the case and whether there is a partnership involved or potential company issues. <BR /> <BR />In answer to concerns expressed about the introduction of partial authorisation, the Department informed the Committee that, having taken legal advice on the matter, it has no alternative except to go along with what is being done in GB. Officials informed the Committee that Northern Ireland cannot opt out of bringing in partial authorisation, because the advice that they got was that there is a requirement to comply with the EU services directive.”
“For example, a debt adviser may wish to qualify as an IP and work for individuals but may not be interested in acting as an IP for companies. There would be no point in such a person studying and taking examinations in how to deal with company affairs. <BR /> <BR />Concern was raised, however, in the industry that the proposals would have a negative impact on businesses and individuals seeking financial advice, as lines might be blurred, resulting in a negative impact on the quality of advice from insolvency practitioners, leading to increased costs and delays. Reservations were also expressed about dealing with partnerships under a partial authorisation regime. The Department assured the Committee that the Bill will require IPs to be authorised fully to act when it comes to partnerships.”
“In its response to the Committee on the matter, the Department acknowledged the issues raised and outlined how they would be addressed at Consideration Stage. Having had sight of the proposed amendments during Committee Stage, the Committee was content with clause 13 as amended and with the wording of the proposed amendment. <BR /> <BR />Clause 14, on authorisation of insolvency practitioners (IPs), includes provisions for the option for an insolvency practitioner to be authorised solely in a personal or corporate capacity, whereas, under current legislation, it is only possible to be authorised for both. Departmental officials informed the Committee that the proposed changes will make it easier for people to become insolvency practitioners. They will not have to study both areas.”
“The Department agreed and brought the amended clause 11 to the Committee during Committee Stage. The Committee was content with clause 11 as amended and with the wording of the proposed amendment. <BR /> <BR />Clause 13, concerning the after-acquired property of a bankrupt, provides protection to banks around property that comes into the ownership of bankrupts before they are discharged; that is, after-acquired property. That will encourage banks to offer basic banking services to undischarged bankrupts, as it removes any reason for them not to do so. <BR /> <BR />In his response to the Committee's call for evidence, the chairperson of the Chancery and Probate Liaison Committee raised a number of drafting issues.”
“Following Committee Stage, the Department informed the Committee of additional amendments to clause 3, which remove unnecessary and misleading references to progress reports in voluntary liquidations. The Committee had not been given time to consider and agree the amendments at Committee Stage, so they were noted by the Committee. <BR /> <BR />Clause 11 deals with deeds of arrangement. The Examiner of Statutory Rules advised the Committee that the Department may wish to amend the clause — indeed, the Minister referred to the Examiner earlier — so that orders making consequential amendments to and repeals of primary legislation would be subject to draft affirmative resolution, while consequential amendments to and revocations of subordinate legislation would be subject to the negative resolution.”
“The Committee explored that option, but, following consideration, agreed that, where procedure is already under way, those involved would expect the case to be conducted in accordance with the existing law. The Committee agreed that it would be bad practice for any party to be confronted by a different procedure from the one that they had expected and started off with at the outset of the case. The Committee was therefore content with clause 3 as drafted.”
“In practice, this will mean that insolvency practitioners will need to operate the legacy legislation and the amended legislation concurrently on their portfolios of cases. It was felt that it would be more cost-effective for the insolvency profession generally, and therefore result in improved returns to creditors, if the requirement for annual meetings were to be abolished for all MVLs and CVLs rather than only those commencing after the date on which the legislation comes into operation.”
“The Bill introduces provisions at clause 3 for the requirement to hold a meeting to present progress reports in voluntary winding-up procedures to be replaced by a requirement to issue a report on progress. This is intended to reduce the cost of holding meetings that are poorly attended or not of any benefit. <BR /> <BR />If the resolution for voluntary winding up was passed before the day on which the law comes into place, the old rule applies. If it is after that, the new rule applies. This raised issues for some stakeholders in that all open members’ voluntary liquidations (MVLs) and creditors’ voluntary liquidations (CVLs) will continue to require annual meetings to be held.”
“I would also like to thank the new Minister and, I am sure he will forgive me for saying so, his predecessor for her involvement. I especially thank the officials, and I put on the record that, for me, coming into an area that I did not know an awful lot about, they were very informative. They kept us right and did keep us well-briefed on all aspects of the Bill and the legislation that we were dealing with. It was a very positive engagement throughout, both in pre-legislative scrutiny and in the course of the Committee Stage. <BR /> <BR />Clause 3 provides for the removal of the requirement for annual meetings in a members’ voluntary and a creditors’ voluntary winding up.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Agus mo bhuíochas leis an Aire chomh maith. I thank the Minister. I will speak on the 36 technical and consequential amendments in group 1. <BR /> <BR />The Committee welcomes the Insolvency (Amendment) Bill, which is intended to update insolvency legislation that was made before the advent of modern methods of electronic communication. The Bill was referred to the Committee on 10 November 2014. The Committee sought an extension to the Committee Stage to 13 March 2015 to ensure sufficient time to effectively scrutinise the Bill. The Committee reported on the Bill on 3 March 2015. <BR /> <BR />I would like to record the Committee’s thanks to those who provided written submissions and oral evidence during the Committee Stage.”
“Thanks for giving way. In fact, you made the very point that I was going to make, which is that that very element of what the Tories seem to be about at the moment is directed at those who receive tax credit for their children and are currently in work. The outcome of that will be that the working poor will become poorer.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. It would be helpful if the Minister clarified the banding system. Forgive me for not raising it earlier, Minister. It was one issue that lacked a wee bit of clarity. At the Committee on Thursday, the officials clarified for us how the banding system will apply to target or dual use, but it is important to have that clarity here today. Until now, that had been excluded, but I think that the officials, working that through with the police, have arrived at a mechanism. Indeed, Chief Superintendent Cargin was there to advise us that a mechanism had been devised that they were happy with or could be happy with.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. It is an established fact that those who hold firearms are among some of the most law-abiding citizens in our society because they wish to keep it that way; that is how they are.”
“Thanks very much, Minister. To clarify for everyone who is listening to or looking at this, you are saying that the banding in the table of common calibres, as submitted by your officials to the Justice Committee last Thursday, is what you are referring to in annex B.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her answers to this point. Is she confident that the inquiry being conducted by the CAL Committee will be done in an utterly fair, unbiased and impartial manner?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Does the Minister accept that childcare costs are one of the most fundamental and crippling issues for many working families at the moment? It is an issue that faces many, especially young mums. They have to leave good places of work because it is costing them to pay for childcare. It is an issue for working families especially, and I ask the Minister to look deeply at it.”
“I might have changed, but not quite that much yet.”
“May I ask for a brief point of clarification, Mr Deputy Speaker? Is it correct that the banding system that has been referred to is the one suggested in annex B of the papers that were presented to the Committee for Justice? That was unclear to me.”
“We have moved to a good place, a position where accommodation and pragmatism have set in and where the feeling is that, through that collaboration and cooperation, we have arrived at a resolution. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to hearing more from the Minister. I thank him for his more recent cooperation and indeed that of his officials, who, with the focus that was brought to bear, worked with the various stakeholder organisations to bring us to this point.”
“<BR /> <BR />People will be looking to today's debate and will have looked at the contributions made at Committee meetings. They will ask, "Well, that's fine and good, but when can this happen?" Therefore, some detail of what is being proposed would be most welcome. As well as that, the time frame will be crucial to the industry, to people interested in country sports and, indeed, to us as public representatives who have seen so much of this through. <BR /> <BR />Despite the earlier and, indeed, justified criticism of the lack of movement — I do not know whether it was through lack of knowledge, lack of comprehension or just an unwillingness to move, for whatever reason — we have moved to a good place.”
“Yes, accommodation is being made for clay pigeon shooting, but let us not forget the many wildfowlers who contribute so much to the economy and the environment through the activities of their clubs. They, too, must be nurtured. <BR /> <BR />Mr Frew referred to the average age of a person who holds a firearms certificate at the moment. We must encourage more people not only to come along and participate in country sports but, through their participation, to contribute to the environment and the ecology. That is very important and should not go unnoticed. <BR /> <BR />One other issue — I moved slightly off it, and I realise that the Minister may well clarify it — is the whole question of target shooting, dual use and how that is facilitated in the banding system. I know that it had become an issue, and I require some clarity.”
“Yes, and I believe that now, eventually, a more pragmatic approach has been taken to that. I hope that, on the issue of dealers' fees, accommodation can be made for a person who works in firearm repair or sells ammunition but does not retain a significant or substantial stock of firearms. I trust that the Minister will refer to that later, too. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, we will not pursue the amendment that relates to young shooters. Reference was made to the sporting talent of the many people from the entire island of Ireland who are in the clay pigeon shooting body, and, indeed, those involved in target sports, but, for them to move up and learn, they have to start somewhere.”
“<BR /> <BR />An awful lot of time has been expended on this, and Mr McCartney just referred to that. I can understand, at one level, the sheer frustration — we heard some of it — that members of the Committee felt. More importantly, I can understand the frustration of stakeholder groups. I attended a couple of stakeholder meetings at which the penny did not seem to drop with some people that there was a solution. The manifestation of this resolution today is a key example of people working together, arriving at conclusions and using the democratic process to facilitate that. <BR /> <BR />The provision for young shooters —”