Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“On 30 July 2024, the whistle-blower wrote to NI Water's chief executive and its board to ensure that they were aware of the situation, again providing all the data on SharePoint. There was then a follow-up article in the 'Belfast Telegraph'.”
“The perception was that it was turning into a witch-hunt of the whistle-blower, instead of his being held as a person of repute who was trying to resolve the issues that he perceived in NI Water.”
“A number of site reports were noted, with photographic evidence provided. On 12 April 2024, the M&E statutory manager and cyber complaints manager provided an update to the whistle-blower. There were suspicions that complicit fraud and wrongdoing was going on. The whistle-blower then received word that his contract had been ended. Right? <BR /> <BR />On 29 April 2024, the whistle-blower and one of the senior managers were interviewed by NI Water governance for four hours. <BR /> <BR />In May 2024, specific patterns in NI Water were noticed by the whistle-blower, and a further 40 cases of potential fraud and wrongdoing were reported to governance via a SharePoint folder that had been created to hold data. Furthermore, there were material changes on 24 May. The whistle-blower noticed that there were material changes to the C1100 contract.”
“Poor workmanship, potential fraud, the use of unregistered subcontractors and the use of non-approved subcontractors was drawn to the attention of NI Water in November 2023. A meeting was held between the whistle-blower and senior managers from NI Water, and they were shown the information again. One of them said, "It could be fraud". A contractor user was consistently awarded tender works that were later discovered to be more expensive than other suppliers' work would have been. Much of the work ought to have been resolved as warranty claimed but instead was paid twice or thrice and, in some cases, paid and never resolved. <BR /> <BR />Potential fraud was officially reported to senior-category managers at NI Water and its mechanical and electrical (M&E) statutory maintenance and cyber compliance manager.”
“That will become very apparent in my next comments — very apparent. That moves us on to the governance issues at NI Water. I am glad that you have given me the opportunity to mention those. I sat on the Public Accounts Committee back in 2010-11. It was something else to sit through our being misled and lied to by senior officials. That eventually resulted in the demotion of a very senior official. That Public Accounts Committee came up with a series of recommendations to be delivered, through the Department, to NI Water. I would seriously like to hear how many, if any, of those recommendations have been implemented at NI Water. <BR /> <BR />I have been contacted by a whistle-blower about practices in NI Water. I initially spent literally three hours going through stuff with him, and my eyes started to stand in my head. It was incredible.”
“Further delay is not just costing us money; it is costing homes, jobs and our environment. The Audit Office says, "Review it"; NI Water says, "Review it"; everyone says, "Review it". It is over to the Minister and the Department now. The solution itself is not forensic. We need real action, not more excuses — and, for God's sake, no more reviews. It is not just DFI that we hear that from around this place. From DAERA, we hear, "We are conducting a review of that", "We are having a review", and, "We are having another review". That is kicking the tin down the alley. We want practical, concrete measures that are driven by what are called "a Government". A Government are there to bring forward proposals to drive the economy and support the building of housing, including social housing.”
“<BR /> <BR />The SDLP has been consistent in calling for an independent review of Northern Ireland Water's funding and governance model to inform decisions on how that crucial utility provider can operate sustainably for everyone's benefit and in an accountable manner. I will come back to that. Without functioning waste water infrastructure, developing homes, growing our economy and protecting our environment — a crucial issue — will be impacted on. I represent a good part of the western shore of Lough Neagh, where the so-called toxic blossom of blue-green algae is starting to manifest itself again. The overflow from sewage disposal works is a contributory factor to that. There is no doubt about it. <BR /> <BR />You cannot fix a leaking pipe with a spreadsheet.”
“That is for housing, local development, factories etc — the list goes on. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland Water's status as a non-departmental public body means that it is subject to rigid Treasury rules that prevent long-term planning and private capital access. Despite mounting evidence and pressure, including calls from the Northern Ireland Audit Office and NI Water itself, successive Sinn Féin Infrastructure Ministers have refused to initiate an independent review. Instead, they have opted for a forensic accounting exercise to address the projected overspend, which is £3 million this year. I do not dispute the need for that exercise, but it would be useful to have its terms of reference so that we could see what it would cover. I will return to that later because other issues there need to be addressed.”
“Today, I met representatives of the Northern Ireland Federation of Housing Associations upstairs. Social housing schemes are being delayed and cannot go ahead. Private housing schemes cannot go ahead: they are being stalled and cannot progress. The lack of available private housing affects the market, so the whole question of affordable housing comes into play. As there are fewer houses available at a certain price, demand is increasing and prices are going up. All those areas are impacted on by the issue. <BR /> <BR />We can take it even further. Many councils are at varying stages of their local development plans. In some of those areas, the local development plans are being rendered hypothetical because councils can do no more than say, "There is the plan. We cannot implement it".”
“Of course, this is a crucial issue. It is very important. Northern Ireland Water has warned that up to 100 waste water treatment facilities are at or near capacity, with around 100 areas, including 25 towns, facing development restrictions. NI Water's own research shows that failing to invest properly could cost the economy 17,300 potential jobs by 2027. New housing projects cannot go ahead because the infrastructure is not in place to support them, which is a direct result of the current governance and funding model. The development of 19,000 homes has been stalled as a result. It is not just homes that are being stalled but factories, schools and any form of development that requires sewage disposal. <BR /> <BR />To take that a stage further, there are also implications for the housing market.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle as ucht an t-am a thabhairt dúinn inniu.”
“He has finished the race. He has kept the faith. May his work bear fruit in every heart he so lovingly tendered. Go ndéana Dia trócaire ar a anam.”
“He was, perhaps, a vehicle for that reconciliation even in death, as Presidents Trump and Zelenskyy met at his funeral. He also spoke on economic injustice, environmental injustice, racism, migration and indigenous rights. He said that war was a defeat for humanity. <BR /> <BR />Ireland, which itself is no stranger to sorrow, saw in him a mirror of our struggles. He was a man who knew suffering yet never despaired, and he met hardship not with anger but with deep wells of mercy. He called on us, young and old, to rise up and live not for ourselves alone but for a kingdom not built by hands. He championed the sacredness of life, the power of forgiveness and the need for justice rooted in love. <BR /> <BR />For his steadfast voice, his compassion without borders and his faith that dipped candles in our darkest nights, Ireland gives thanks.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving us the opportunity and time to pay our respects to the late Pope Francis. On the passing of the Holy Father, Ireland bows its head not only in mourning but in deep gratitude for a life poured out in service. He was a man of towering faith. However, his greatness lay not in power but in the tireless labour of love in his defence of the dignity of every soul. He spoke to a world aching for truth, and, in the storm of change, he stood steady as a voice for the unborn, the poor and the forgotten. In lands torn by violence and greed, he became a pilgrim of peace, especially for Gaza and Ukraine.”
“Will the Member add to that the growing cost of the recent storms and floods and the costs associated with the rising temperatures, which have contributed to the algal bloom in Lough Neagh?”
“With your indulgence, Mr Speaker, I would like to be associated with your comments. From being in the Assembly, as a former Chair of the Environment Committee and in various other roles that I have performed, I know that Alex has always been there, bringing a very professional, intellectual and calming influence to all that she was associated with. Alex, from me to you, I offer my sincerest best wishes for the future and for your retirement in whatever guise that may take. Best wishes, Alex.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is not a point of order, it is an apology for not being in my place to ask a question earlier. You surpassed yourself, Mr Speaker, by being even more efficient than usual. My apologies that I was not there on time.”
“Minister, what methods or mechanisms are available to the Department to ensure that not only proper procurement procedures but proper payment procedures are adhered to for arm's-length bodies?”
“I fully support, of course, my amendment.”
“Andy Allen referred to the pension credit issue.”
“<BR /> <BR />Brian referred to the funding required to mitigate the problems and about protection of the most vulnerable in society. He referred to fraud. Again, I make the point that there is fraud — we accept that there is — but the reduction in fraud will not deal with the major problems out there of poverty and of people facing major health problems and disabilities. Presenting it almost exclusively as a fraud issue will not weather it. <BR /> <BR />Colm Gildernew referred to the Tories being replaced by red Tories. I absolutely accept Colm's point that what they are doing — to farmers, to pensioners, to people who are on benefits — is cruel. He referred to the trans-generational impact of the Troubles in the North and to 114,000 people falling further into poverty.”
“The taxation issue is separate from benefits, but the point that I emphasised was that the DUP amendment focuses on savings. As you know as well as the rest of us — probably better in some instances — that is about a means-tested benefit. You cannot just say to someone, "You have a hundred grand in the bank, but, at the same time, you can have your housing benefit"; that is unfair. <BR /> <BR />Many issues have been raised, including housing rights, welfare cuts and the problems that we have with them, their human impact, radical reform and tax evasion. My colleague Mark referred to the billions being spent on defence while, through the proposed benefit cuts, bombarding those who are vulnerable and weak with financial cuts. Welfare is a devolved matter; that point was also made by my colleague.”
“I am sure that the Minister appreciates that and has talked about it. We talk a lot about inclusive workplaces and getting people off welfare — that is true — but we have to face the acute realities of people's health.”
“People on waiting lists, people in severe pain and people awaiting serious operations are devouring painkilling tablets. Maybe as a consequence of taking painkilling tablets, they are taking other tablets for their stomach. As a consequence of that, they face hardship at home, surely, and a lot of anxiety, for which they take tablets too. <BR /> <BR />Those people cannot go back to work. They simply cannot get back into the workforce unless they have had the necessary operations. The key to that is health. That does not apply to everyone, but it is the key in many cases. People with those conditions want to get back to work. They want to get back into their daily routine. They physically and, in many cases, as a consequence of their physical health, mentally cannot get back into the workforce. That is a key point.”
“People will be deprived not only of PIP and income from that side of things but of those passported benefits. <BR /> <BR />Another element that has been mentioned is our conflict and the legacy issues that have been passed to people in many families, principally but not exclusively in mental health problems; some people are severely disabled. That has to be taken into account. However, there is another thing that we need to look at. Any of us who deal with people in our constituency offices will notice, as I have, a transformation in the amount and type of work that comes in our direction. In my constituency office, my people and I are personally dealing with people's medical problems to a degree that would normally be for a GP practice; there has been a huge increase in that.”
“As any of us who has been there knows, income support, housing benefit and universal credit are all means-tested. I am not really sure how you avoid a detrimental impact on savings or investment without taking savings or investment into account. The clue is in the title: it is a means-tested benefit. I am not sure where that one is going. <BR /> <BR />One key element that needs to be emphasised and re-emphasised time and time again is this: the proposals, as we have read them, will be detrimental not only to PIP, DLA and, indeed, universal credit recipients but to those who, on foot of a disability, whether they receive employment and support allowance, PIP or DLA, get passported benefits. Those passported benefits are the clue to it all.”
“One thing in the DUP amendment is slightly unclear to me. There is a slight anomaly where it:”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“I thank the Member for his comprehensive response. I accept that the fault is certainly not his, but does he agree that the issue has gone on for so long that it has become an embarrassment?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. It would be wise of us to consider not only benefits such as PIP but the passported benefits that disabled people can get as a consequence of their eligibility for the likes of PIP and disability living allowance (DLA) that are under threat. I list in particular carer's allowance, the blue badge scheme, housing benefit, elements of income support, enhanced disability premiums, the half-fare SmartPass, health costs, the affordable warmth scheme and the other — I will not call them benefits — entitlements that people have on the back of their eligibility for benefits. That is what is causing real concern to many people in our community and elevating levels of anxiety.”
“Le déanaí, labhair ceannaire an pháirtí, Claire Hanna, as Gaeilge in Westminster, í ag cur fáilte roimh Fhleadh Cheoil na hÉireann. Chuir sí cuireadh ar an Phríomh-Aire, atá ag dúil le freastal ar an fhleadh.”
“Minister, do you accept that there are many people, particularly those whose mental health frailties make them vulnerable, for whom this announcement has exacerbated their anxieties? You mentioned, Minister, that you made your views known to the UK Government. Can you specifically outline in detail to us what exactly those views were?”
“Picking up on the theme of the previous question, the projected cost is £1 million per annum. Has it been confirmed that that is the budget that will be committed to the office?”
“What research has his Department done on the potential implications for markets from here?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire an athuair.”
“Minister, I will pursue your theme, but, to preface this question, I do not expect you to have the full details today. Will you quantify the additional cost of Brexit to your Department and the wider economy associated with it?”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“— or 100 years' time and the future for our young people.”
“When it comes to just transition, it is about not just talking the talk but making sure that every Department works up its policies to ensure that we justly transition to a new future. We are looking ahead to how things might be in 50 —”
“Those projects should be nurtured because, as we know in Northern Ireland, the small business sector is crucial to us all. Andrew McMurray referred to the issue with the planning system and the time that it takes to process major planning applications. That goes back to DAERA. Timothy referred to RHI and broken promises, but I have to take a wee bit of a deep breath and say this: we had a storm recently, we have had serious rainfall and the polar ice cap is melting. We all have a collective responsibility to do what we can to prevent such things. <BR /> <BR />The Minister referred to a number of issues, including meeting targets and cross-government collaboration.”
“Sorry, I am running out of time, David. I welcome the fact that your amendment mentions taking an all-island approach to the matter. Yes, that is very important, especially when the rest of our island is way ahead of us because of, again, efficient and good government. The Department needs to get its act together. We accept that. You referred to companies that are about to draw a line through Northern Ireland and move their investment to the rest of the island and to Scotland, and you said that planning is a major issue. <BR /> <BR />Emma Sheerin welcomed the motion and the need for the Programme for Government to make investments. Diana Armstrong referred to just transition. I get your point about support for smaller projects, because their cumulative benefit is very important.”
“What do I say? Oh deary, deary me. Tut-tut. <BR /> <BR />To get back to the serious matter, I welcome the Alliance amendment.”
“You are at the helm, including in Finance and other bodies, so it is up to you to lobby your colleagues to make sure that a just transition is not only financed but implemented to allow a transition in the future that is smooth for the farming community, businesses and people with disabilities or transportation difficulties. Just remember that, Members. KPMG was referred to, and Gary Middleton talked about the lack of growth and halting growth in the green sector. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Alliance Party amendment, even though David Honeyford had a wee touch at us. My good comrade Mark here has given you a sufficient rebuttal. That is maybe food for thought for your party colleagues.”
“It seems that that has got sucked back into the bad old ways of how it was in the former Department. <BR /> <BR />Gary Middleton referred to a "just" and "affordable" transition. While there has been a lot of debate in the Assembly on what a just transition is, with a focus on how it applies to agriculture, it should be said that just transition applies to every single walk of life and every single Department. Therefore, I remind Members that, when they talk about just transition, that applies not just to the Department for Infrastructure or DAERA but to every single Department that your colleagues are sitting at.”
“She also talked about bureaucracy and outdated policies. <BR /> <BR />I will add that the Department's policies and practices are not just confined to renewables. Many other areas, whether they be local development plans or other major issues, are called into the Department, where they seem to get engaged in interminable delays. That is creating major problems not just for renewables development but for developments elsewhere. A major project is required in the Department that is based solely on that. The planning system has been proven to be slower than it was a decade ago. We had the review of public administration (RPA), which was supposed to suggest at least some improvement to the efficiency of our local authorities, including in planning.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will start by saying, "Thank you" to everyone who contributed to the debate. It has been a very valuable debate that flagged up a number of issues. I will pick up on them as I go through my speech. My colleague Sinéad mentioned how we are really falling behind the pace of development and delivery in neighbouring jurisdictions. She said that climate targets are at risk, there is an increased dependence on fossil fuels, planning policies are outdated and there is need for increased commitment. She also said that we are scaling down our use of renewables instead of increasing and incentivising them. She also mentioned investors going elsewhere, the need for long-term support to stabilise the cost of offshore wind and the expansion of solar supplies.”
“Ar ndóigh. Molaim go hard Oifig an Cheann Comhairle as ucht an mhéid eolais agus oideachais a tugadh dúinn le linn na hócáide a reachtáil an Ceann Comhairle maidir leis an teanga Ghaeilge agus an teanga Gàidhlig. Bhí sé iontach spreagúil. <BR /> <BR />Sa deireadh, ba mhaith liom rud a rá faoin chomhthéacs polaitíochta agus cultúrtha, nó tá na pointí an-tábhachtach fosta. Tá sé tábhachtach go gcuirtear an Ghaeilge chun cinn ar bhealach atá cuimsitheach agus measúil ar éagsúlacht chultúrtha Thuaisceart Éireann. Ba chóir don straitéis díriú ar chomhthuiscint agus ar chaidreamh maith idir na pobail éagsúla. Tá sé sin barrthábhachtach sa chruth is go mbeidh tuiscint againn ar a chéile. Tá sé lán chomh tábhachtach go gcuireann an Coiste Feidhmiúcháin tús ar an straitéis, má tá siad le bheith fíor dá gcáipéis féin.”
“<BR /> <BR />Ba chóir go gcuirfí béim ar fhorbairt na Gaeilge ar leibhéal an phobail trí mhaoiniú a thabhairt d’ionaid phobail ina bhfuil ranganna Gaeilge agus imeachtaí sóisialta; ba chóir líonraí Gaeilge, mar shampla, in iarthar Bhéal Feirste agus i gCarn Tóchair, a fhorbairt agus a chothú; agus —.”
“<BR /> <BR />Is príomhphointe iad fosta na meáin agus cur chun cinn an chultúir. Ba chóir go gcuirfidh an straitéis le tarraingteacht na Gaeilge tríd na nithe seo a leanas: tacú le craoltóireacht, litríocht, ceol agus imeachtaí cultúrtha agus spreagadh a thabhairt d’ealaíontóirí agus do ghrúpaí a úsáideann an Ghaeilge mar chuid dá gcultúr agus dá gcleachtadh cruthaitheach. Ba chóir don straitéis béim a chur ar sholáthar seirbhísí pobail tríd an Ghaeilge; ar chomharthaíocht dhátheangach i gceantair ina bhfuil ráchairt ar an Ghaeilge. Ba chóir dlíthe tábhachtacha a aistriú go Gaeilge, mar a mhol Comhairle na hEorpa. Tá ról tábhachtach ag an Choiste Feidhmiúcháin uilig ina leith siúd.”
“Ba chóir go gclúdódh sé seo ceapachán Coimisinéara Gaeilge agus bunú Oifig um Fhéiniúlacht agus Léiriú Cultúrtha le tionscadail teanga a mhaoirsiú agus a chur chun cinn. Ba chóir don straitéis aghaidh a thabhairt ar oideachas agus oiliúint múinteoirí, nó tá gá le cur leis an líon scoileanna lán-Ghaeilge. Ba chóir don straitéis na nithe seo leanas a dhéanamh: tacú le forbairt bhreise na nGaelscoileanna; cur le clár oiliúna na múinteoirí le go dtig leo freastal ar an éileamh mhéadaithe ar oideachas trí mheán na Gaeilge; forbairt a dhéanamh ar Ghaelcholáistí i gceantair ar nós Bhéal Feirste, Chathair Dhoire, iarthar Thír Eoghain, agus, ar ndóigh, i mo cheantar féin lár Uladh. <BR /> <BR />Tá an cheist seo agam ar an Choiste Feidhmiúcháin: an bhfuil fáth leis nár luaíodh an Ghaelscolaíocht sa Chlár Rialtais a d’fhógair siad?”