Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“Just to be perfectly clear, all businesses will get a one-month rate holiday, and the sectors that you have just announced will get three-months: is that correct?”
“Thanks very much to the Minister. I see that that is contingent on the Budget. The budgetary implications of that might be something that the Minister will want to speak about too. <BR /> <BR />Could the Minister be a wee bit more precise about any offers of funding that have been delayed or withdrawn as a result of the pause?”
“Minister, you will know that that constituency is one of the high-end manufacturing constituencies and has a range — a plethora — of very skilled workers. One thing that I always encounter, aside from the shortages, is a lack of connectivity. You have FE colleges and some of the best schools anywhere in the area, but joined-up connectivity between business and Departments has to take place in a much more coordinated way. Some of the companies are headhunting from the schools. Is there any way that you, the Department of Education or whoever could take a much more coordinated approach?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement, during which he mentioned schools. Will the Minister advise what sort of strategic alignment, if you want to call it that, there is between his Department or the environment fund and the Department of Education?”
“<BR /> <BR />His loss elucidates for us the frailty of life and the fact that we are lost in the midst of that frailty. As we all know, he frequently spoke lovingly of his wife, Laura, his mother, his youngsters, Trinity, Oliver, Cameron and Abigail. To them and his extended family, friends and those within his party, I offer my sincerest and heartfelt sympathies. May God rest his gentle soul.”
“That is what made the man and made him such an effective public representative. He had an ability to see the human being, reach out to others on the basis of their humanity and treat others as human beings, going beyond the perceived role of a public representative. He had a deep humanity. <BR /> <BR />He brought that to the Assembly and, indeed, it was a bit of craic being in the Assembly when he was in the Chair. When I was in the Chair and he was not adhering to the rules that he would have insisted so rigidly that others adhered to, I often had to say to him, "As the Member well knows", because he did well know, and probably knew a lot more than the rest of us, about Standing Orders. That was the measure of the man. Our ability to relate to one another is so important in the Assembly.”
“Much has already been said in tribute to Christopher today, all of it and probably more justifiably so. When I heard the news yesterday, I was truly shocked and saddened like everyone else in society. In our respective roles as Deputy Speaker and Principal Deputy Speaker, I always found Christopher to be courteous, very respectful, very competent and, indeed, very humorous.”
“<BR /> <BR />Our young people are demanding a climate reset for the sake of their future. An Executive ban on fracking would be a small step towards convincing them that we are listening and that we hear them. It would send a clear message to companies that we do not want fracking here, with the constituent health and environmental risks that it brings. The SDLP supports the Bill.”
“The existence of those applications and the possibility that a Minister might award a licence in the future — perhaps the Minister will give us some indication about that tonight — will continue to undermine our target to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 and mock efforts to reduce the use of hydrocarbons as an energy source, locally and globally. <BR /> <BR />We have heard that the evidence on fracking has been considered by Administrations across these islands, all of which came to the same conclusion. They recognised that regulation of fracking is not enough. It is time that we closed down that option here too. The future is one of a decarbonised energy system. We can demonstrate our commitment to that greener, cleaner vision — for tonight, anyway — by supporting the Bill.”
“Even before the latest DUP election stunt, the Executive had failed to bring forward legislation to ban fracking. The Minister announced a review of petroleum licensing, but that has not been published yet. Perhaps he can respond about that later. It is the Minister's responsibility to introduce a ban on fracking. Although it is a cross-cutting issue, affecting a number of Departments, it is for his Department to initiate the ban, and I genuinely hope that that ban comes. <BR /> <BR />There are no active petroleum licences, but two applications for licences remain under consideration by the Department.”
“Indeed, Mr McGuigan referred to our lengthy periods of listening to evidence and voting last night. On the occasion of the 2020 motion, the Assembly called for Executive action and legislation to ban in the North:”
“I listened very carefully to the Fermanagh and South Tyrone representative Mrs Deborah Erskine. I have no doubt about her sincerity. As a co-signatory, on behalf of the SDLP, to the private Member's motion in 2020, I welcomed the Assembly's decision that:”
“It is a fact that coughs, shortness of breath and wheezing are the most common complaints of residents living near fracked wells. An epidemiological study of more than 400,000 patients of the Geisinger Health System in Pennsylvania, carried out by Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health — for Members' interest, it is the largest school of public health in the United States, if not the largest in the world — found a significant association between fracking and chest and related problems and increases in mild, moderate and severe cases of asthma. Another Hopkins-Geisinger study looked at the records of almost 11,000 women with newborns who live near fracking sites and found that they had a 40% increased chance of having a premature baby. <BR /> <BR />Those are just some of the things that we have to consider.”
“It was an SDLP Environment Minister who, in 2015, introduced what was, in effect, a moratorium on fracking until scientific evidence could demonstrate that it could be carried out safely, without risk to the environment and public health. There is still no such evidence. Indeed, there is more evidence than ever that fracking can have a significant negative impact on the environment and on the health and well-being of nearby populations. <BR /> <BR />Reference was made to Lough Neagh's being one of the potential target areas for frackers. It is well known, having been well established, that there are high levels, possibly higher than elsewhere, of asthma and related chest illnesses around the shores of the lough.”
“Gabhaim buíochas le hÁine Murphy as an Bhille seo a thabhairt os ár gcomhair. I thank Áine Murphy for bringing the Bill before us. The SDLP supports the Onshore Fracking (Prohibition) Bill. There is a compelling case for a ban on the issuing of licences for onshore exploration, extraction and production of fossil fuels by means of fracking here in the North.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I appreciate that. Does the Minister appreciate, understand and support the notion that, going by the UK Government's reports, if unchecked and probably even with mitigations, climate change will cost the UK economy upwards of £20 billion per annum by 2050?”
“<BR /> <BR />As we reach the end of this Consideration Stage, I emphasise that the legislation is only the beginning of a journey. If we are to achieve the Bill's objective, the Assembly will have to ensure that each Department and public body keeps their commitments and are there to support people. It will certainly be a challenge for everyone, but transformation is necessary.”
“It will also be essential that the corresponding proposals and policies are coordinated with those in England, Scotland and Wales and with those in the rest of Ireland, as already referred to. The existing bodies of the North/South Ministerial Council and the British Irish Council, as well as others, are perfectly suited to the constructive engagement that is required. <BR /> <BR />The first appointment of the just transition adviser should be no later than 18 months after the enactment of the Bill. Any just transition fund or funds should not be restricted to a single sector, as the principles will apply across government, impacting on all sections of our society. Those impacts are likely to be felt more acutely in socially deprived communities.”
“As we know, there are many of those people. They are vulnerable, isolated and living on their own and may have not contributed in a substantial way to climate change. For those people, it will help in:”
“Engagement is very important, and it will be with:”
“We know that, in the agri-economy, the whole island of Ireland plays a vital role, as every day there are movements across the border, North/South and South/North, that facilitate the growth and ongoing development of that economy. Those are very important issues. <BR /> <BR />We will move on to my second amendment, which expands on the just transition principles and applies them across plans, policies, services and budgets of Departments and the Executive on a whole-government basis. The amendment recognises that just transition to a low- and zero-carbon economy will entail the whole of society's inputs and impacts. I have outlined some of them. Their purposes, through the North/South Ministerial Council, the British-Irish Council, which I have referred to, and other arrangements for structured cooperation on climate change are:”
“I will speak on the group 4 amendments as the SDLP representative on the AERA Committee. Bringing people and communities with us is essential to achieving the reduction in emissions that is required to meet our international obligations, and ensuring a just transition is the key element in achieving that. Every Department and public body will need to assess policies and proposals on the basis of their impact on emissions targets and their effect on communities across the North. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment No 50 would establish an independent just transition adviser to oversee those assessments and to advise and constructively challenge Departments and public bodies on their application of the just transition principles. <BR /> <BR />The adviser would, for example:”
“Another saying is: if it ain't broke, why try and fix it? That is probably not Irish, but it is a definite one. <BR /> <BR />Prior to his instruction to stop the checks at the ports, did the Minister seek legal advice from the Attorney General and/or the Departmental Solicitor's Office (DSO)? If so, did that advice entirely support his decision to issue the instruction to stop the checks?”
“It is incredible. Where we are is absolutely incredible. <BR /> <BR />That is the basis on which the DUP has decided to threaten the stability of the Assembly, not just as an election stunt — it certainly is — but even after the election has been held. It has abdicated a role of leadership in the Assembly. The public may not offer it that role again.”
“Why did the DUP play a part in putting into office a Prime Minister who has led what may be one of the most corrupt British Governments in living memory? DUP members attacked the Irish Government, yet they place trust in a British Prime Minister who, despite the evidence, they still believe will act in their interests rather than his own. It is absolutely incredible. <BR /> <BR />At this stage, it is appropriate to quote the age-old Chinese proverb:”
“It has gambled the Assembly's future on short-term headlines in the hope of bouncing everyone into an early election to save its own skin. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly must work through a raft of Bills before then, but, because of the DUP, there can be no new Executive action, policies, legislation or urgent decisions, and there will be no agreed Budget at the end of the financial year. Waiting lists will continue to rise and healthcare reform will be delayed again. <BR /> <BR />The people who elect us will ask why. Why has the DUP gone on strike over an agreement that is the direct result of the Brexit that it campaigned for? Why did the DUP vote against Theresa May's deal, which would not have required border checks at Northern Irish ports?”
“Before I make my statement, I want to say that the actions of those thugs in Glasnevin cemetery do not represent me or the culture that I come from: far from it. In fact, they have been roundly condemned by most politicians on the rest of the island. <BR /> <BR />In recent weeks, more and more constituents have contacted my office concerned about the growing cost-of-living crisis. The price of groceries is rising. Electricity costs are increasing weekly. Gas and fuel costs are on an unending upward spiral. There are daily calls for Executive action on those and other issues. This is the time that the DUP has chosen to undermine the Executive and Assembly. It read the runes and saw its political demise in May.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill's comprehensive and wide-ranging nature speaks for itself, and I urge others to support it, please.”
“That is very important. Those policies and actions should reflect international obligations, targets and good-practice standards, and the climate adviser would report on the response from Departments and public bodies. <BR /> <BR />Given the wide-ranging effect of the legislation, there is a need for an Assembly Committee to be designated to oversee and review the whole of government policy, planning and performance when it comes to our climate change duties. I referred to that earlier. It formed a very substantial part of yesterday's debate. We support amendment No 33, which would extend the requirement to consult to include the climate commissioner. We also support the introduction of a public-sector climate duty under amendment No 60.”
“That is where our local politicians — we, as elected representatives — should connect with business and other societal and communal interests on how climate change legislation progresses and, indeed, what needs to be done to adjust it or take further measures on it.”
“As the SDLP representative on the AERA Committee, I will open on the group 3 amendments. As the AERA Committee recognised, the role of the climate adviser will be vital, but there should be no doubt in the legislation that a climate adviser will be appointed. The SDLP cannot support amendment No 67. As we see it, it will delay the appointment of a local climate adviser and makes no commitment to appoint one. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment No 72 removes that doubt. As people will no doubt recognise, it is a very extensive and comprehensive amendment. It certainly adds to the Bill, its functions and its roles, as outlined during yesterday's debate. That is how we should oversee and advise on the mitigations and measures that can be taken and, indeed, involve others through an Assembly oversight Committee. That is very important.”
“That is one thing. There is an absence of EV charging points. There are not enough of them. Furthermore, the cost of some of those cars is absolutely prohibitive for many people in rural areas. <BR /> <BR />There is therefore that additional issue of what you might call mobility poverty: a lack of access to mobility. Members know as well as I do that some people live in areas where there is not a chance of a bus coming down their road or anywhere near their road. They are therefore reliant on their diesel or petrol car, which may be 10, 12 or 15 years of age, if it has repeatedly got through the MOT, to take them to and fro. That is another aspect of poverty: access to mobility and, as a result, to services.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The whole issue of connectivity and rail and other public transport has to be taken into account, but there is another element to it. We spoke earlier about fuel poverty. I have a concern, which I have raised at the Committee. We often talk about electric vehicle (EV) charging points.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. A lot of us who sit in the AERA Committee in particular, and, I am sure, on other Committees, hear about the prosperity fund that was promised, although Boris Johnson has promised so many things. Our concern is that that is not just a similar promise to that which was on the side of that big red bus.”
“We also support amendment No 30, which requires the Department to consult the UK Climate Change Committee, the Republic's Climate Change Advisory Council and the IPCC when setting carbon budgets. We also support amendment Nos 32 and 35, requiring the Department to take account of social, environmental and economic factors when setting carbon budgets. Amendment No 34 introduces, for the first time, nitrogen balance sheets to record nitrogen use efficiency. That is another welcome measure.”
“I said that we could achieve net zero on CO2 by 2050. I am trying to tease out the other aspect of amendment No 2, which is how, by 2050, we can meet net zero full stop. <BR /> <BR />We support amendment Nos 9 and 10, which would ensure that emissions target dates can only be brought forward and that, for any year, only a higher percentage target can be set. We also support amendment No 16, to limit the use of carbon units in the net Northern Ireland emissions account for any given period. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 29 introduces the reasonable requirement to consult the public and the climate change commissioner and just transition commission on carbon budgets.”
“It brings that expertise, as will our local universities. It will be challenging for everyone in all sectors, and it will require more than just the new technological solutions that people appear to be relying on. It is about ways of life. It is about science. It is about technology, surely, but it is also about skills, awareness, training, our universities, our science and how all those work together to help us to transform society and to meet the challenge of the climate change crisis that faces us. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP believes that it is desirable to achieve a net zero society. On CO2, we can certainly achieve net zero by 2050. We support amendment No 9. I believe that amendment No 10 will not be moved. Is that correct, Clare? Did you say that amendment No 10 would not be moved? If I have picked it up wrongly, forgive me.”
“No one who heard the evidence that the Climate Change Committee chair, Lord Deben, gave to the AERA Committee can doubt his commitment to addressing climate change through meeting the international obligations that all countries have signed up to. I came at that from a different point of view. I was expecting something from him that was different from what we got. I was expecting former Tory Minister John Gummer. I was expecting him to be in a different place from the one that he was in, but he challenged us all with his evidence that day. <BR /> <BR />It is an expert technical advisory body that provides advice on carbon budgets and targets, progress reports on meeting those targets and assessment of climate change risks and opportunities. It, too, would have to fit in with what Mr McAleer proposed.”
“It has to be. I thank the Member for making that point. Go raibh míle maith agat. Unfortunately, the debate has been narrowed down to farming and agri-food. I cannot emphasise it enough: this affects every conceivable walk of life. With that come responsibility and a challenge to all those walks of life to see how we can do things differently. The oversight mechanism will be crucial, because, unless we hear from the people most affected, we will not know how we are facing up to the challenges, meeting targets or adapting to new ways of doing things, which is also vital. That is my next point. <BR /> <BR />Bringing people with us is essential to achieving the reduction in emissions required to meet our international obligations. That is clearly the work of more than one generation. We heard it referred to as a long-term project.”
“I will just make this point, Declan. <BR /> <BR />We need to make sure that that oversight mechanism is fit to keep pace with the science as it develops and to see how we can develop new things. There will be a pivotal role in this for the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI) and our universities. It is a challenge to them, but I am sure that they can step up to the mark and do that and work with us all to achieve it.”
“As a representative of a rural consistency, I share the concerns about the impacts on rural communities and the rural economy if we choose to set an unrealistic target of 2045. If we set a new target, we need to make sure that, as part of the target-setting mechanism, we have oversight and scrutiny as the science develops.”
“The pollination of the ground and the different types of insects that inhabit our earth — all of that — have been affected by climate change. People do not want to see that. The younger generation are very conscious and aware of that, and many of them live on farms too. There are new methods, changes and new challenges. These are challenges for us all, and it is important for us to face up to them. The great mid-Ulster poet Seamus Heaney came from a proud farming tradition and paid tribute to that farming work. <BR /> <BR />People — all of us, farmers included — want to play their part in reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and many of them already do so. In some cases, they go even further than what would be regarded as their fair share.”
“Generations of the same family have, in many cases, worked the same ground. I have heard that raw emotion from families when I have visited their farms. We know that the land question in Ireland is very historic. When you go to people's farms, you hear the emotion from them: "It was left to me by my father, and it was left to him by his grandfather". It is that legacy — that tradition — of something handed to the next generation for them to take care of and look after. As they do that, times change. They do not want flooding on their ground. They do not want to see animals and birds — whatever those might be — leaving their ground. We know that birds are migrating to other areas because of the change in the climate.”
“The Minister takes me to an interesting analogy with the health service, given that we are coming through a pandemic. The analogy that I will draw is that, when people go to the GP, they are advised to follow a certain lifestyle and that, if they follow a different lifestyle, they will wind up in hospital earlier. I suggest that, in this case, the GP for climate will be the commissioner, with oversight from the Assembly. It is an interesting analogy, and it definitely has parallels when we come to think about the climate and our contribution to it. We make a contribution to our health, and we make a contribution to the climate, which we can, in fact, help. <BR /> <BR />That brings me to my next point. We are not dealing with cold data. We are living, breathing human beings.”
“Later on, we have a proposal for a special committee on climate change. If targets are set now, how or in what way will the mechanism operate whereby those targets could be reviewed to see whether the targets are in fact being met? Secondly, if those targets are successfully met, what would the mechanism be for them to be made more ambitious? If, in some sectors, those targets are not being properly met, can mechanisms be put in place and what would those be within the Assembly's legislative scrutiny to determine what action could be taken? I am hearing that, in Scotland, which did set itself an ambitious target, some of the MSPs are finding a bit of a difficulty with meeting those targets.”
“Yes, indeed. I remember that, when I was Chair of the Environment Committee, we had a motion of no confidence in the then Minister Sammy Wilson over his scepticism around climate change. It is reality and a fact, and you cannot get away from it. <BR /> <BR />I have listened carefully to the evidence presented to the AERA Committee, and I thank all those who contributed to that process. I see that some of the officials are with us here today, and I was speaking to them down in the canteen earlier. The impact on society and our economy of the changes required to achieve those targets could be a serious challenge for us. That is where those other pillars, the oversight commissioner and the just transition, have to come in. <BR /> <BR />I would really welcome some clarification around amendment No 2.”
“It is over 10 years since the UK introduced the Climate Change Act, and it is over six years since my party colleague from Foyle Mark Durkan, when he was the Environment Minister, proposed a climate action Bill. The delay has been caused by a combination of the resistance to putting the necessary legislation in place and, as I referred to, the three years during which the Assembly was not sitting, which prevented the introduction of any legislation.”
“I have stood in Magherafelt at 1.30 am as flash flooding went through people's houses in areas where that had never, ever happened before. The Chairman of the Committee and Mr McCrossan have seen the ravages of it in their constituency, down the Glenelly valley. <BR /> <BR />Those are but pictures. We have seen from the world that the scientific evidence is undeniable. How we get to the point of making our contribution to that is the vital bit. We are definitely behind the curve in taking responsibility for reducing our greenhouse gas emissions in the North. We can all talk about why that is — lack of motivation, three years of legislative scrutiny missed — but that is the reality.”
“I was brought up in a rural area, I live in a rural area and I like to think that I keep my finger on the pulse of what is happening in that area, but the challenge for all of us, not just for the agri-food and agriculture sectors, is very significant, irrespective of whether there is an 82% or 100% target. <BR /> <BR />Later on in the debate, we will come to just transition and oversight commissioners, both of which are key pillars in how we manage climate change, how we try to reach our targets and how we try to help people transition to the new way of living. All of us have seen this in our constituencies when we have been out. I have been in a house that had just been built, in which the water had come up three feet high when the River Moyola broke its banks.”
“The SDLP welcomes the Consideration Stage of the Climate Change (No. 2) Bill. As the SDLP representative on the AERA Committee, I will speak on the group 1 amendments. <BR /> <BR />It has been a very long road to get here. I am sure that many who sat on the Committee thought that we were on two roads, and, at one stage, we hoped that there was a single destination and that we were coming to that single destination by different pathways, but, unfortunately, that was not to be the case. At least we have a climate change Bill at Consideration Stage, but, unfortunately, we did not achieve common ground. The Bill raises a huge number of issues for us, because all of us are going to have to make big changes in our lives.”