Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“I was struck by Mr Buchanan's comments, particularly those around where we are at, in the here and now. He spoke about fuel poverty. I have just seen that one of the gas companies is due to increase the cost of gas, very significantly, again, in the near future. We talk about societal issues and societal changes. That increase will make people who are facing fuel poverty inevitably and increasingly dependent on coal and sticks. That is the anomaly that we have. Those are the difficulties that will arise: that is the practical reality. <BR /> <BR />I have listened to the debate intently, and I was listening earlier. The Committee took a lot of evidence on the matter. Net zero by 2045 was an extremely ambitious target. We heard of the serious difficulties that that would create for many sectors in the community.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. On the question of biogenic methane, which you referred to earlier, do you have anything to add? That is particularly important for a number of the sectors that we were talking about, such as the agri-food and agriculture sectors and the science that is driving that. What mitigation measures can be introduced to alleviate that sector — "alleviate" might be the wrong word — to help them or facilitate them?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. On that particular point, I, like you and the Committee Chairman, sat through many hours of evidence, listening to people and the arguments that they made. I thank those people. <BR /> <BR />The target of 100% by 2050 will not affect just agriculture and agri-food, although they will bear the major challenge of that target. Will the Member advise what types of support, education — I may be straying into what will come later on a just transition — and science will drive it to make sure that people will be able to arrive at that target and change to new and, if you like, more ambitious ways of doing things? As we know, society changes with that. Can the member give me some indication of how that can be done?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I will revert to the issue raised by the Chairperson of the Committee around the Shared Prosperity Fund to replace the EU moneys that were clearly lost through Brexit. Has the Minister been in a position to get any indication whatever of the scale of the funding that may or may not come to the North?”
“<BR /> <BR />The SDLP supports the Animal Welfare (Service Animals) Bill, and we hope that it is followed by the establishment of an all-island animal cruelty register. That is very important indeed. There needs to be a central register of those who commit crimes against animals across these islands to ensure that they cannot access rehoming services. I am aware of several animal charities that would welcome further progress on that issue.”
“This Bill will allow the Assembly to address the situation that has left service animals in the North without the specific welfare protection that is in place elsewhere. Obviously, we are three years behind in the legislation. The Bill is a timely reminder to all parties that there are consequences with any delays, and those are very real ones for these animals. Preventing the Assembly from doing the business that we are elected to do leaves a legacy that we have to address in the future. In some cases, such as this legislation, that process can be relatively straightforward, and I am glad to see it being rectified here today. In other cases, the impacts of delays in legislation will be longer and more damaging to our society and our economy.”
“I thank the Minister for moving the motion today. The SDLP welcomes the Final Stage of the Animal Welfare (Service Animals) Bill. We fully support the Bill and have done so throughout its accelerated passage. I take this opportunity to register our acknowledgement of the massive contribution that service animals make, and I thank the members of the emergency services responsible for them for their care and for all their hard work. <BR /> <BR />We believe that the Bill strikes the right balance between protecting service animals being used in a reasonable way and the right of an individual to a lawful defence of their actions if a service dog attacks them unduly. As a result of the Finn's law campaign, legislation has already been enacted in England, Wales and Scotland to protect service animals on active duty.”
“Will the Minister accept that, whichever climate change Bill is enacted, it will involve significant change and impact not only on agriculture but on agri-food, the wider economy and communities? Will the Minister give us some insight into what sort of just transition measures are being talked about and will be put in place, and will he say if that will be done on a cross-departmental basis?”
“Mo bhuíochas fosta leis an chomh-Chéad Aire as ucht a freagra. An ndéanfaidh sí cur síos dúinn ar an dul chun cinn atá déanta go nuige seo ar chearta na teanga Gaeilge anseo sna Sé Chontae? I thank the joint First Minister for the detail that she has given us so far. Will she give us some detail on the progress that is being made on rights for Irish language speakers in the North?”
“Educational and financial support will be required to help people working in the industry to make that just transition. <BR /> <BR />Thank you, Minister, for introducing the regulations.”
“I am sure that the Department is doing that sort of thinking. We hear evidence from its officials at the AERA Committee about different aspects of climate change legislation. However, it will be crucial that the Department and its agencies — the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI), for example — along with other Departments, provide financial support. I do not rule out the Department for the Economy. That support should be provided to the farming and agri-food industries as, necessarily, we move to address the worst excesses of climate change. <BR />I am sure that that factors into departmental thinking. I hope that it helps to allay the concerns that I heard on Friday morning, which were not unknown to me. The future has to be about education and science, but it also has to be about support.”
“On Friday morning, I met and had discussions with a group of farmers. Farmers will require not only educational support but support of another nature: in how they do things and with what types of science they should involve themselves. In that regard, yes, direct payments are crucial to the success of our farming and agri-food industries, and we will all want to do what we can for them. The payments are part of how we incentivise, encourage, inform and educate farmers in how they should develop in the future. How they develop the economy and their businesses will be a crucial part of that.”
“We have two climate change Bills working their way through the Committee for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs. Irrespective of which Bill, perhaps in amended form, comes through at the end, changes will be needed to how farmers do their business.”
“I rise in support of the Direct Payments to Farmers Regulations as proposed by the Minister. <BR /> <BR />I might not have the same reservations about Europe as Mr Irwin has. Goods traverse daily from the North into the Republic and back again, so it is crucial that the industry has as much access as possible to those European markets. Our industry needs to be supported in that regard. The Minister is a pragmatic person, so I trust that he recognises those markets and sees where the opportunities are. <BR /> <BR />Basic payments to farmers must continue. As we know, previously, upwards of 80% of farm income came by way of subsidy or payment — call it what you will. It is crucial that that continues, but I want to add to that, and I am sure that the Minister will hear what I say.”
“and the key topics of discussion. What cooperation or collaboration is there with the Department of Education in those matters? The benefits of bilingualism — and, indeed, for some, trilingualism — are a stated fact.”
“Minister, I note that your statement emphasises:”
“Thanks very much, Minister, but have you ruled out the possibility of an extension? Some of the people affected are older and maybe have disabilities. It may not be the easiest thing for them to just turn around the expenditure within a day or two, and we are coming very close to the end of the scheme. <BR /> <BR />Incidentally, Mr Speaker, with your forbearance, I pay tribute to the staff who have been working at the Department, over weekends and the like, to turn the cards around. I also pay tribute to you, Minister, for your cooperation. I could name some of the staff individually, but that would be inappropriate to the rest of the staff who are working very hard in trying to get the expenditure out the door.”
“I thank the Minister for his engagement on the issue. What measures is his Department attempting to take to mitigate the worst impacts of the restricted use of red diesel? We have heard about the technical aspects, but there is one very practical aspect, and that is the potential 12-week wait to get the redemption on the duty paid. Have representations been made to Westminster on that matter?”
“Yes, thank you, I will wind up now. If that person is in a sensitive occupation, such as a veterinary surgeon, a police officer, probation officer or anyone in social services, their boss may call them in and say, "Here, I hear that you are being investigated for a very serious offence". Those issues around that interpretation really need to be addressed. I appreciated Mr Blair listening to us on Thursday, when we raised those issues, and again on Thursday evening with the party, but I have serious concerns about — I do not dispute that they are not intended consequences — what are unintended consequences of the interpretation under clause 6. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker; I hope that I have made the time frame work.”
“Some detailed advice around the Bill has come from legal persons. In the intervening 12, 14, 18 months or however long it may take for the PPS to make a decision on the matter and the FEB to return the gun —”
“Even at the point at which the Public Prosecution Service makes a decision and says, "No, there will be no prosecution", the decision to return that person's firearm is left not to the Public Prosecution Service but to the firearms and explosives branch (FEB). Based on the evidence that it has, including the statements of police officers, it can decide whether that person is fit for the return of the firearm. That is the process. I have been through it with many people over the years, and it is a fair indication as to how things can go, especially when that happens. <BR /> <BR />I have to pay tribute because some information arrived this morning. Some of the legal aspects and concerns around the Bill have been raised by the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC).”
“In the context of the legislation, as a consequence of a serious offence such as one relating to animal welfare, their shotguns are immediately scooped and taken into safe holding by the police. <BR /> <BR />Mr Blair and I had a discussion about that, and those issues can be left to be rectified by the Public Prosecution Service (PPS). We all know the legalities and how the law works. From the initial point of the guns being scooped, to statements being prepared by police, to those statements being passed to the Public Prosecution Service and the Public Prosecution Service delivering a decision, it can take 12,18 or 24 months, and, with COVID-19, it has taken incredibly longer over the last while.”
“I get what the Member is saying, but, if a police officer observes a group of people with a group of dogs in pursuit of a wild mammal, the police officer is duty-bound to assess that situation, as they see it at that moment, be it rightly or wrongly. <BR /> <BR />Allow me to expand on that. I am sure that other Members have dealt with people who have got into problems, be they alleged, perceived or otherwise, with firearm certificates. Under the interpretation of the Bill, as I read it, the implication is that people will face difficulties and possibly prosecution owing to not only being caught in that scenario by a police officer or officers but being in possession of a firearm. One issue relates to animal welfare, and the other is quite clearly the illegal use of a firearm, as it would be seen.”
“I thank the Member for that intervention. There is but one difference between the badger and some of those other mammals; the badger is, largely, a nocturnal animal, and, generally, people are not out with dogs at that time of the night.”
“I will paint a picture: go back to that Saturday morning when that group of people are going out pheasant shooting or whatever it might be. They will have specially bred dogs for that purpose; they are good dogs such as spaniels. Those dogs get the scent of a wild mammal, and they are off in pursuit of it. The owners will try to restrain the dogs and get them back so that they can get to their destination. In the meantime, a police officer has observed that activity. According to the Bill we have in front of us, that police officer has observed an organised group of people who are in the act of:”
“That is the draft legislation as proposed at the Second Stage in this Bill. What does that mean? Where I come from, it is not unusual to see a group of people, mostly on a Saturday morning, out with their dogs and shotguns, either after pheasants or on their way to the duck pond or to Lough Neagh to carry out a very legitimate and approved activity. Indeed, I will place on record that many of those people are among the most law-abiding people that there are, because they do not want anything to jeopardise their sport or the retention of their shotgun or whatever they have the firearms certificate for. <BR /> <BR />The Chair has already mentioned that, under this legislation, a person can face:”
“I welcome the opportunity to debate this issue today and thank the Member for affording us the opportunity. The SDLP is deeply committed to animal welfare, preventing the abuse of animals and ensuring that abusers correctly carry the consequences. A lot of work has been done in relation to the register of offenders by my colleague Dolores Kelly, with Sinéad Bradley, myself and councillor Malachy Quinn. <BR />I lay my cards on the table: I am one of the people who engage in country sports. I do not hunt with dogs like this here, but I am one of the 54,000 people who have a firearms certificate for the purpose, and John already knows that. My concern is not flippant or an aside. It is a major concern about section 6, "Interpretation":”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a freagraí go dtí seo. Last night, I was contacted about a small town in the constituency of Mid Ulster where St Vincent de Paul has identified 40 families who cannot heat their homes and cannot feed their kids. I welcome the principle of the energy payment support scheme. Minister, can you give us more details of that, please: the amounts payable and when it is projected to take effect?”
“There is an urgent need for a central register of those who commit crimes against animals across these islands to ensure that they are not able to access rehoming services in the future. A number of animal charities would welcome further progress on that issue. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for moving the Bill's Second Stage.”
“<BR /> <BR />Where a service animal is on active duty under the control of a trained officer and is being used by that officer in the course of their duties and in a way that is reasonable, they should not be subject to attack or assault any more than the officer should. It is also appropriate that the Bill allows someone the opportunity of a lawful defence of their actions if a service dog attacks them unduly. Fortunately, it appears to be relatively rare for either circumstance to occur. However, it is important that our legislation is kept updated and is able to address situations that, we know, could occur and would otherwise cause legal difficulties. <BR /> <BR />It is our hope that the Bill is followed by the establishment of an all-island animal cruelty register to which anyone found guilty of such crimes would be added.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is currently an offence to cause unnecessary suffering to an animal, but a lawful defence exists if the actions were for the purpose of protecting a person, property or another animal. As a result of the Finn's law campaign, the legislation has been changed in England, Wales and Scotland so that, in cases involving service animals, those factors no longer apply. It is right that the Assembly addresses the situation that arose because the Assembly was not sitting at the time, which left service animals in the North without the specific welfare protection that is now in place elsewhere.”
“The SDLP supports the Bill and its accelerated passage. We again acknowledge the huge contribution that service animals make, and we thank the members of the emergency services responsible for them for the selfless work that they do every day. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware of the background to the Finn's law proposal and the circumstances of the severe attack on a police dog in the line of duty. I believe that the vast majority of people who hear those details will be shocked that the person responsible could be charged only with criminal damage. Treating those animals as simple property, as if they are a car or mobile phone, demeans their contribution to keeping us all safe and the special bond that exists between them and their handlers.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Can he give any further details on the indigenous, minority and lesser-used languages and the early years policy?”
“Thanks for that, Minister. I appreciate the work that you are doing to resolve those issues. I am trying to establish whether there is a particular issue in the natural environment division (NED) in the NIEA and why there is a slowness with its processes. I have one case with the Minister's office.”
“I will pick up on Mr Allister's point. Along with Mr Irwin, last week at the AERA Committee, I raised the point that it appears to be a form of commercial blackmail. In fact, some of the producers are saying, "We will take 80% of your pigs at full value or all your pigs with the price knocked down by £13·50". I know that it is a commercial matter and all that, but, Minister, is there any way that you or any public body can intervene in situations like that in order to ensure that people are not being done down in such a manner?”
“I thank the Minister for the detail. Can he give an assurance that the people who have waited for 10 months while those protracted machinations have been worked through will get their payment before Christmas?”
“I thank the Minister for the detail, specifically regarding the role that teachers and ancillary support staff have played throughout. I have visited about eight schools over the last three to four weeks, and I see complete dedication shining through from classroom assistants to principals and other teaching staff. <BR /> <BR />Is it not within the realm of the Department to give those people what they require: a decent pay rise? I know that some have had a pay rise here and a pay rise there, but it should be something that is at least compatible with the cost of living and that recognises their worth and the dedication that they have put in while the schools were open and while they were not open. That dedication shone through when I visited those schools over the last three to four weeks.”
“At a practical level, what more will be done to protect workers who are doing their job? They have to remove some of the more contentious flags from areas where they simply should not be.”
“His passing is truly a focal point for us, as it was when we lost other legends from our party over the past couple of years: John Hume, Seamus Mallon, Pat Hume — a legend in her own right — and my close friend John Dallat. They have passed the mantle to us; it is for us in the SDLP and for others to carry it forward as we build towards the new Ireland that was crucial, pivotal and, indeed, instrumental in being the directional point for Austin and others.”
“<BR /> <BR />I send my sincerest commiserations to his wife, Annita, and to Estelle, Caitríona, Dualta, Austin Óg agus Emer. Mo chomhbhrón libh uilig. My sincerest sympathies to you all and to the extended Currie family, of whom many still live in the east Tyrone area. As you listen to the passion with which Austin delivered his thoughts, you hear that his dedication and commitment to a new Ireland, which would be one of respect, reconciliation and unity for all our people. The legacy that he has left is for us to fulfil. <BR /> <BR />Arís mo chomhbhrón leis an teaghlach. Again, my sincerest sympathies are with the family.”
“Austin was a courageous founder member of the civil rights movement. That movement was for civil rights for all and an end to injustice against everyone, and that is what he was deeply committed to. Later, he was a founder of the SDLP. Over the weekend, I watched some of the online clips. Some might argue that only he could have articulated, strongly and clearly, that dedication and commitment to non-violence. He spoke out against all violence, be it loyalist violence — inflicted on his family in a deeply sectarian way, against his wife on one occasion and in numerous attacks on their home — or the violence of the Provisional IRA and others. He also spoke out strongly against state violence. Those clips said to me, "That was a man who had a compass for the political direction in which we all should be going".”
“Gabhaim buíochas le leascheannaire ár bpáirtí as ucht an ráiteas a chur os ár gcomhair inniu. I thank the deputy leader of our party for bringing the matter before us today.”
“However, if the correct investment is made now to decrease the reliance on fossil fuels, great opportunities for employment will come with that.”
“I thank the Minister for his commentary. I will pick up on the theme that was developed by the Member who asked the previous question. We see the problems that are being created right now by the heavy and almost total reliance on fossil fuels insofar as the cost of heating homes has increased by almost 70%. The consequent deep fuel poverty affects many homes. <BR /> <BR />I see in the statement that the Executive have agreed to lead by example through delivering change on the government estate. In relation to your bids, Minister, have there been further discussions not just about the government estate — we know of old buildings that are in government ownership — but about social housing, schools and hospitals? The cost of fossil fuels is causing a huge problem for budgets in those areas at the moment.”
“What does that mean specifically and how is it likely to be done?”
“The bullet points that follow are not specifically actions but more suggested directions. I ask the Minister for an example of what is meant by:”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Paragraph 17 states that within:”
“The Minister referred to independent involvement and third-party audits. Will he expand on that? What external and independent assessment has the Department sought of the environmental impact of the project on the marine habitat?”
“I am glad to see projects like this one receiving support. Does the Minister see afforestation having a role as part of the support for a just transition for many farming families?”
“Many people with anxiety, even if they are represented, will find that to be a traumatic occasion as it is, even though the chair and panel members are very understanding and respectful of those people and their issues. Certainly, the imposition of further financial difficulties on people with limited resources needs to be put on record. I will be raising it with the Minister for Justice.”