Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“Those cases involve either people who are waiting for discharge from hospital or people who have been discharged without the required care package being available. Indeed, there can be delays in making an assessment of the required help, and, even when those assessments have been made, there can be lengthy delays in putting together the required packages. In one trust — thankfully, this is not the Northern Trust — I have seen people discharged from hospital without being assessed. That adds to a further problem. <BR /> <BR />The problem is particularly acute in rural areas. It is often the case that there are simply not enough home care workers available and, in some areas, not enough to meet the actual demand.”
“They bring a breath of fresh air into the house, and, as the Member said, they often do things that there is no requirement for them to do. They become family friends. Those staff are essentially vocational workers, because pay and conditions are so much better in many other sectors. It is their dedication and commitment that ensures that many people get the care that they need in their own home. <BR /> <BR />As an MLA for Mid Ulster, I am very aware of the problems in providing those domiciliary care packages in the Northern Trust area. My office is contacted regularly either by patients who are still waiting for care packages or by their family members. Yesterday alone, I had three cases around the availability of domiciliary care packages.”
“I do not know how many times I have stood in the Chamber and raised this very issue, often with the Minister. I almost said "the new Minister". <BR /> <BR />Before I get into the detail of the subject, I will say that the real and vital heroes — I stress the words "vital heroes" — are those domiciliary care workers who, day and night, in good weather and bad, up hill and down dale in rural areas, are delivering that care to people who, essentially, need it. They are the real heroes, and, as I will come to later, they are the ones who require the recognition, because they do a sterling job. Not only do they provide a service in houses but, in some cases, they are the only people that that disabled and often elderly person sees.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as an díospóireacht atrátha a chur ar an chlár oibre.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. On 15 December, I and other members of my party met officials from your Department. They outlined to us that they were bringing forward some 113 recommendations to the Department to deal with the issues in Lough Neagh. Are those 113 proposals — if, in fact, there are now 113 — to be enshrined in part or in total in the environmental strategy that you have just referred to?”
“— main sources for nutrients in the lough as run-off from agricultural land use and pressures on the sewage infrastructure. There is much more that could be said, and, inevitably, it will be said, but I look forward not to words but to actions from the Executive.”
“<BR /> <BR />Recent research by Ulster University suggests that it could take decades — other Members referred to that — to achieve a good status for water quality in the lough, because of the phosphorous levels already in the lough sediment. That does not mean that it should not be done; it just means that real recovery will take time. It needs time, commitment, policy drivers and investment. <BR /> <BR />The public awareness generated by the impact of the algae blooms of last summer may provide the necessary impetus for the Assembly, its elected Members and the Executive to take the action required. DAERA's 'Draft 3rd cycle River Basin Management Plan' identified the potential —”
“The presence of the invasive zebra mussels may also be a contributing factor, but the scientific advice is that a build-up of excessive levels of nutrients is driving the ecological crisis. <BR /> <BR />Eutrophication in Lough Neagh is an ongoing process that began in earnest in the early to mid-20th century. We have yet to begin to properly address it. Both phosphorous and nitrogen are the main nutrients involved in that process. If you look at the research paper to which I referred, you will see information about the high levels of nitrates in the past four to five years and about how the intensification of nitrates in the lough has more than tripled, according to that research. The process of intensification of nitrates and phosphates in the lough must be addressed.”
“<BR /> <BR />We also know that, even before the recent algae blooms that have caused so much concern — principally because of their smell and visibility — the water quality in the lough has been in decline for some time. Since 2020, the lough has been described as being in poor status. That is just one level above the lowest status of "bad" when it comes to the ecological and chemical conditions of the water. The build-up of excessive levels of nutrients is the main driver of the conditions under which algae blooms are likely to thrive in Lough Neagh through a process called eutrophication. The annual mean temperature of Lough Neagh has also been rising in recent years, and there has been a marked decrease in the cloudiness of the water; both of which can contribute to the frequency of the algae blooms.”
“It may be for another Minister in another Department to engage with the current Ulster University and to see what research facilities can be supplemented through the university. Its work was sterling. <BR /> <BR />The blooms are the most visible signs to date of the ecological crisis in Lough Neagh, but they are a symptom of an underlying and long-standing problem with the water quality in the lough. Most Members will be aware of the fact that, at present, around 50% of the North's drinking water is extracted from Lough Neagh and treated. It is also the discharge point for treated waste water at points around the lough shore. It supports an eel fishery and other fisheries and the extraction of sand and gravel. It is also the site for a range of recreational and sporting activities.”
“I recommend the detailed paper by the Assembly research staff, titled 'An overview of algal bloom in Lough Neagh', which I commissioned in September and have since made publicly available. I commend them for their efforts on that. It was really sterling work. <BR /> <BR />On the topic of research, one facility that is deeply missed along the shores of Lough Neagh and about the lough is the research facility that was, once upon a time, at Traad Point in Ballymaguigan. It was operated by the University of Ulster, as it then was, and it no longer exists. It is my estimation that, had the university been allowed to continue its sterling work, we may not have hit the crisis that we are now in.”
“Indeed, those of us who have engaged directly with DAERA and all the relevant agencies since June of last year, when I personally contacted the Department, will be aware of the work that they have done. Their efforts have laid the groundwork for the decisions that must now be taken by the Minister and the Executive, because the issues are not confined to one Department.”
“I welcome the motion and the amendment and the opportunity to support them on this very important issue. I am from the shores of Lough Neagh — I was reared there — so I am deeply passionate about the future of the lough. It is extremely important to me. We will come to other issues, such as returning the lough to public ownership, from where it came. We also need to deal with that. <BR /> <BR />Despite efforts by the SDLP and others to recall the Assembly since the toxic algae blooms appeared last summer, this is the first opportunity that the Assembly has had to debate the ecological crisis in Lough Neagh. Fortunately, government has not waited as long to respond, although it has had to do so without political direction.”
“Thanks very much for giving way. As the other candidate, I add my congratulations to the Speaker or, as I know him, Edwin. He and I go back a number of years to our time in local government and local government organisations. I like to think that, over that time, we built a respect and, indeed, a friendship with each other, where we could sit down and talk politics readily and respectfully and achieve solutions. I know that that ability to achieve solutions and, hopefully, bring people together in a conducive atmosphere, as we face into a new future with a new Assembly, will be the incentive to move this place forward, act in the best interests of all our people and work for all our people together. Congratulations to you, Mr Speaker — Edwin, as I know you.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Glacaim leis an ainmniúchán.”
“Tá. Glacaim leis an ainmniúchán, a Cheann Comhairle, agus gabhaim buíochas le mo chara as.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. He mentioned the green growth strategy. Which Department will drive that strategy — will it be his? — to ensure that it is cross-departmental and includes all relevant public agencies, arm's-length bodies, local authorities and all of the bodies charged with government and its extended lengths and that it will be inclusive in drawing in community and voluntary groups to ensure that the maximum effect and benefit is derived from it in a coherent and cohesive manner?”
“Minister, are you aware that the Animal and Plant Health Agency (APHA) in GB is conducting, or has conducted, clinical field trials on a cattle Bacillus Calmette-Guérin vaccine in Hertfordshire? The Chief Veterinary Officers in England, Scotland and Wales described those as "ground-breaking field trials". Has anything further been done by the Chief Veterinary Officer and his staff here to explore the success of those trials?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. He made reference to the fact that, over the past five years, direct payments have accounted for 87% of net income to agricultural businesses. I note from the statement that the budget for the farm sustainability payment will reduce to a "much lower level". What projections has the Department made on the level to which it will be reduced? It will obviously have consequential, knock-on effects on the basic income for farming activity unless farms have supplementary incomes from elsewhere.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as sin. Minister, will you give some details about the hubs in mid-Ulster, which is, as you will know, is one of the fastest-growing economic areas in the North? When might the scheme start in mid-Ulster?”
“On a point of order, to correct Mr Wells, it is Ríocht Aontaithe. Do you want to practise saying it?”
“I seriously cannot get why people are so opposed to people getting married and getting that certified as Gaeilge más mian leo é — if they so wish. I really do not get it. Seriously, guys, get a grip. Think of the future, not of the past that you are harking back to, because that ain't going to go anywhere.”
“If we are to truly work our way forward to a society that is open, rich, diverse, accommodates one with the other and in which people truly respect each other's identities in the diversity that that brings in a very positive and enriching way, this sort of stuff is not the way to go, guys. If you want to make progress, you do not do it by driving a car and looking in the rear-view mirror. Nah, that will not work out, because, eventually, we will come to a day when we will be looking at a new Ireland, and, in that new Ireland, I will surely be the first to champion my Irish identity and, equally, to champion measures being introduced to accommodate people of a British identity. Sin cóimheas. Sin iolrachas cultúir. That is mutual respect. That is cultural diversity.”
“I cannot understand how anybody could seriously stand up and oppose those two things in a society in which we are coming together after a very bad period of time, when people were being slaughtered on our streets. Muna bhfuil meas agat ar do chomharsa, níl aon rud tuigthe agat. If you do not have respect for your neighbour, you have learned nothing and understood nothing. <BR /> <BR />I want to see a society where people of a British background are accommodated. Equally, as an Irish person, I want to see my identity accommodated and recognised formally. Sin an fáth a bhfuil Acht na Gaeilge de dhíobháil. That is why an Irish language Act is needed.”
“Labharfaidh mé idir Ghaeilge agus Bhéarla, muna miste leat. I will speak both in Irish and English. I am really, really shocked to be here today talking about this. Is Gaeilgeoir mé go smior. Cosúil le hAisling ansin, is breá liom labhairt as Gaeilge, téann sí i mo chroí, ritheann sí liom, agus fosclaíonn sí na súile do dhaoine. I really love speaking Irish, and I say to those who do not have any Irish: try it. It opens a brand-new world to you. It explains the environment that you live in, the place names and people's history, and it brings one thing: understanding — tuigbheáil. Labharfaidh mé ar chúpla rud eile. Tá cóimheas ann. What does "cóimheas" mean? Mutual respect. Iolrachas cultúir? Cultural diversity.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he clarify whether last year's figures —184,000 and 66,000 — were reduced or dented by the measures from that £707 million-odd and, if so, by how much?”
“In particular, I thank the Committee Clerk and staff and, obviously, the staff in the Bill Office — it is good to see Barbara with us today: I am sure that she does not mind my mentioning her — for their support and efforts throughout. Through the Minister, I thank his officials, who were there to provide us with evidence and some steer as we worked our way through what turned out to be a complicated and lengthy process. <BR /> <BR />I am glad that we have arrived at the Final Stage of the Climate Change (No. 2) Bill. The SDLP supports it.”
“It is an accommodation that recognises the importance of reducing our contribution to climate change; recognises the domestic realities; incorporates a just transition and oversight mechanisms; and presents opportunities in the green economy, one of which the Minister outlined in his speech. As a member of the AERA Committee, I thank those who contributed to the Committee's evidence-gathering sessions; as the Chair said, there were 52 in total on both Bills. I thank colleagues on the Committee for working relatively well — in fact, very well — together on the matter, and I especially thank the Chair for his steering and forbearance throughout.”
“I am glad that we have arrived at the Final Stage of the Bill. Climate change is clearly one of the most fundamental issues facing the human race. As we, here and now, think of what is happening to the human race, however, we tend to put things in a bit of perspective. In order to have a serene atmosphere, it is obvious that we need to have a serene and peaceful planet with serene and peaceful people in it. I think, particularly now, of the people of Ukraine; of the damage, human and atmospheric, that is being done, on this occasion, by Russian aggression; and, indeed, of the threats of nuclear destruction. I make the point again: a peaceful planet and a serene atmosphere run entirely one with the other. <BR /> <BR />I am glad that we have arrived at the point where we have a climate change Bill.”
“The Committee has made several recommendations towards this objective, and the SDLP wholeheartedly supports all of the recommendations in the report.”
“<BR /> <BR />Recognising that there is a problem is, of course, a start, although many would point out that some of those barriers are real rather than merely perceived. Let us be absolutely clear on this: there is no valid reason why women cannot be successful in the agriculture sector, as farm owners, managers, workers, in education organisations, in agri-food production companies, at board level and even as Ministers, but there is an urgent need for policy initiatives to prevent us from falling further behind other regions on these islands and, indeed, within Europe. We have a responsibility as legislators to ensure equality of opportunity for women in agriculture here. That means removing the barriers, real or perceived, that prevent women from choosing farming as a viable career path.”
“<BR /> <BR />When the Committee looked at the boards of 17 local agri-food organisations and businesses covering agriculture organisations, education and private agri-food production enterprises, the Committee found that, of 111 senior board representatives at these organisations, only 16 were women. That is just 14%. Compared with other jurisdictions on these islands, there is a lack of policy in place that is intended to encourage and support women in the agriculture sector. According to the Department's consultation on future agricultural policy proposals, DAERA is cognisant of the need to encourage females in farming and to eliminate any perceived barriers to accessing the industry as a viable career path.”
“At just over 5%, we have fewer women registered as principal farm owners compared with the rest of Ireland and with England, where the figures are 12% and 16% respectively. Across the EU, the average figure for women farm owners is 22%. The proportion of women working in agriculture here on a full-time basis in 2019 was only 30%, compared with 62% of the general workforce. It is of particular concern that, since 2006, the number of local women farmers has fallen by around 15%. While there are 40% more women recorded as "other" or "casual workers" on farms, there has also been a sharp decline in the number of women principal farmers in comparison with men over the same period. There has been a 21% drop for women, compared with a 6% decrease for men.”
“Hopefully, I will be as brief as I can be in covering a very important topic. We welcome the debate today on the Committee's report on the challenges that women experience in the local agriculture sector. Many of those challenges are cultural and difficult to address, but that is not impossible. After all, since the Executive were established, four women have held the position of Agriculture Minister out of a total of six, including acting Ministers. Among that number was the first Minister of Agriculture in the Executive, my SDLP party colleague Brid Rodgers. <BR /> <BR />We have around 25,000 registered local farm holdings, and the majority of these are designated as very small. This is 7% lower than in 2006, but the overall workforce figure has remained the same.”
“What discussions has the Minister had recently with the Minister of Finance and/or the Treasury around replacement or substitute funding for the rural development programme and rural development grants.”
“I would like the Minister to explain how he envisages, in his proposal in amendment No 66, that the chain of accountability would go back to the Assembly through the Executive Office. Amendment Nos 67 and 68 clearly identify the climate commissioner; those issues are covered there. Will the Minister and, indeed, the Members who tabled the other amendments explain the chain of accountability back to the Assembly, please? <BR /> <BR />I will conclude there, Mr Speaker. Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing from the Minister and the proposers of the other amendments.”
“Will the Minister clarify that, please? Does "comparable" mean lesser policies? If those countries do not have comparable policies, they could have better policies and practices. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, we always look at the unintended consequences. Does that amendment, in fact, have the potential to realise a non-tariff barrier to trade? Are there powers to block that? In other words, does the Assembly have legitimate powers to do what may be the outcome of the amendment? I want to get a wee bit of clarity on that. It may well be that it is one of the advantages of remaining in the single market; that remains to be seen. I would appreciate some clarity from the Minister on those points, please, before we move to the vote. <BR /> <BR />Those are the main issues that I wanted to raise.”
“Those policies and actions should reflect international obligations, targets and good practice standards. Passing legislation is only the first step; we have a long way to go. Difficult decisions have to be taken, but we are on our way to meeting our obligations. <BR /> <BR />I will be brief, as Mr McGuigan was. I call on the Minister to shed some light on amendment No 36, which is about carbon leakage. It refers to:”
“I am sure that they are well ahead of the pack, but we, as elected representatives — I would be the first to admit this — need to learn more about the direction that we are pointed in and the measures, be they scientific or otherwise, that need to be taken to put us on the road to a just transition. The constructive engagement that is required will involve Ministers working through the existing bodies of the North/South Ministerial Council, the British-Irish Council and others. <BR /> <BR />The role of the climate commissioner is equally important, as the AERA Committee recognised. The climate adviser should advise on making policy and taking action across government and public bodies that will go towards meeting the challenges of the climate emergency.”
“That support will have to be applied to plans, policies, services and budgets of Departments and the Executive on a whole-government basis, including the arm's-length bodies that form part of government here. That will recognise that a just transition to a low-carbon economy involves a series of societal inputs and impacts. <BR /> <BR />There must be coordination with policies and practices in England, Scotland and Wales and with those across the rest of this island. After some work recently with the Chairman, the Committee hopes to engage with Teagasc, Queen's University and AFBI so that they can come to the Committee and start to initiate the process.”
“We have to understand that we are grappling with the issues, and, therefore, we must engage with all sectors, Departments and external bodies to make sure that the just transition is, indeed, just with regard to the many social, economic, educational, skills and cross-departmental factors. As we move from one way of life and one way of doing things, with one set of skills, and from how operations are dealt with in business and schools, as well as in general and culturally, we have to make sure that every bit of support will be there to facilitate that change and to ensure that it is done in a way that does not disadvantage any sector in any meaningful or substantial way.”
“It is good to be here and to be dealing with the second group of amendments after having a productive debate on the first group. As we move on to deal with the issues, I hope that we will arrive at some form of reconciliation and accommodation on these matters. <BR /> <BR />As I stated during the debate on the first group of amendments, it is really time that we got our act together and legislated for the climate emergency. We support setting ambitious targets, but we must ensure that there is a just transition. As Members will know, the Committee received numerous representations about a just transition and the shape or form that it may take.”
“As a representative of a rural constituency, I share a lot of the concerns that have been relayed to me about the Bill's impact on rural communities etc, but I also see its potential and its opportunities for rural communities to diversify into and expand certain areas of the economy. <BR /> <BR />Getting together and bringing everyone with us will be essential. At times, it may be problematic and difficult, but that is where leadership kicks in. That is where people and leaders lead by example and take us, hopefully, to a better place, with the creation of a society that has to think of others and of the impacts of what we, as legislators, do in the Assembly.”
“I do not know what your source is, Minister. I am sure that you are as erudite as usual in your application of detail, but I cannot support it, and I think that you know fine well why. <BR /> <BR />There are concerns about highlighting one sector — by exempting it — to the exclusion of all others. As in the red diesel argument, I am sure that a long line of businesses, sectors etc would form to ask, "What are you doing for them? Why are you not doing it for us?". I am sure that you understand that, Minister, just as I have some understanding of why you have tabled your amendment. <BR /> <BR />Those are my initial comments. We are committed to seeing climate change legislation through.”
“As I said, farmers have stated that they want to play their role, and I have not heard a single farmer say that they want to be exempted from that duty and responsibility for themselves, their family and their neighbours. We cannot support amendment No 17.”
“We have listened very carefully to the various sectors and the outside world, and we realise that there has to be a method and a way forward for us to achieve our aims and objectives to prevent global warming yet at the same time acknowledge the very real aspects of life in Northern Ireland. We have concerns, and I will come to those. Minister, you referred specifically to amendment No 17. I really do not think, Minister, that, if amendment No 1 passes, you will require amendment No 17, but, in any event, I really do not think that it is prudent to single out any one sector and say that emissions of greenhouse gas from agricultural sources do not count. They do. Everybody has their role to play.”
“Every Department and public body will need to assess policies and proposals on the basis of their impact on emission targets and on their effect on communities across the North to enable that just transition. <BR /> <BR />As we know, there has been a delay in bringing the necessary legislation in the Bill, which was caused by the three years when we had no Assembly. During that time, the average global temperature has continued to rise. Taken together, the past seven years were the hottest seven years on record. The trend is clear and inescapable. Throughout that time, the SDLP has been clear and committed in our ambitions. <BR /> <BR />I will go through the amendments. It is our intention to support amendment No 1.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I stated during the debate on the first group of amendments, it is time to get serious about addressing the climate emergency. The SDLP supports and has supported the setting of ambitious targets for reducing our greenhouse gas emissions, but bringing everyone with us is essential to achieving those targets. Ensuring a just transition is the key to doing that, and we will vote on the amendments to ensure that the correct mechanism for a just transition is put in place, albeit it is in the second group of amendments. There is also a case for streamlining the amended Bill to prevent duplication of actions and plans, and our voting will reflect that.”
“We are maybe hearing elements of Groundhog Day. As one of the Members whom Mr McGuigan spoke about earlier as having sat through a lot of evidence — probably days of evidence — on the climate change issue, I know that it is important that we come here today from a perspective of seeking solutions and trying to work things through. A lot of people are looking at the Assembly today, concerned not only about their livelihoods and the economy but about society as a whole. Farmers, too, have children, and farmers have an interest in climate change and in mitigating its worst aspects. I have not yet met a single farmer who does not realise that he or she has a commitment and a desire to doing that and to playing their part.”
“Thank you, Minister, for your statement. Minister, through the challenge fund, your Department funded a feasibility study on blue-carbon restoration, and that report, which came out, I think, in May 2021, made a number of recommendations for action. Will those be lifted by the Department, or will we see more working groups and further study around that?”