Patsy McGlone
Mid Ulster · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Limiting the power to dismiss charges involving the death of or serious physical harm to a vulnerable person will enhance the fairness and integrity of those criminal proceedings.”
“The SDLP welcomes the provisions for the long-overdue establishment of a statutory Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses of Crime. That is a significant step forward in the development of our justice system.”
“Putting the office on a statutory footing will ensure that the commissioner's role is legally recognised and accountable to the public and the justice system. The Minister outlined a number of the measures in the process of accountability.”
“OK. I thank my colleague — indeed, the Minister — for responding. It is, as the Minister said and my colleague highlighted, a sensitive area. People who are approached to give a reference should think long and hard about the implications of the references that they give: where they might wind up; the circumstances in which they give them;…”
“The SDLP welcomes the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill and the opportunity to debate it, alongside the Chairperson — or should I say, "Mr Amendment" — at its Second Stage.”
“I accept that the Minister's Department, as she has stated repeatedly, does not have the capacity or resources to develop those legislative provisions during this mandate.”
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“Although the Department was aware in September past that it had a financial problem, it said that it committed to a course of action that could not be changed until November because that is the way in which the legislative process works. However, that is not the way in which the legislative process has worked in this instance, as we see this evening. <BR /> <BR />The Committee raised the issue that there was a belief in the industry that tariffs would be in place until 31 March 2016. Officials dismissed that as speculation, however, stating that there was no announcement to that effect. The legislation introduced in November past — and Committee members were shown it at the meeting — stated that the tariffs would be in place until 31 March 2016. That suggests more than mere speculation.”
“Given the fact that demand exceeded expectations, and that that was apparent from as far back as at least November 2014, did anyone in the Department try to work out the impact of the announcement or think at least to ask this question: what impact will this July announcement have on the level of applications between now and the introduction of new measures in November? <BR /> <BR />There were 900 applications in the six weeks running up to the introduction of the legislation. Last week, officials acknowledged that, although a spike in applications was expected, its extent was not known until later. Was it not reasonable to assume that there would have been a considerable spike? How much time and effort did the Department put into calculating what that spike could conceivably be?”
“Therefore, in November 2014, applications had already exceeded expectations for March 2015. Should that have started alarm bells ringing? <BR /> <BR />Officials informed the Committee last week that the process of thinking about the issue and asking questions began in March 2015, when it was noticed that the level of applications was rising. That was three months after the Department informed the Committee of the very same fact. Officials said that the Minister was formally made aware of the problem in July last year. That was followed by a consultation, issued on 22 July, that contained proposals to introduce, among other things, demand management measures from November 2015.”
“I am quoting from departmental documents, and I have them with me. The briefing to the Committee six months later, in November 2014, stated:”
“The Minister's letter that accompanied the draft regulations referred to the serious and urgent risk to public finances, and we have heard more about that today. However, questions remain for the Committee whether the problem should have been recognised sooner and whether steps could have been taken earlier to manage those risks? <BR /> <BR />The briefing to the Committee in June 2014 stated:”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important to make it clear from the outset how the renewable incentive works. The point of application is after the installation is complete. Once a valid application is received, it must be supported. Therefore, the supplier and the customer have already invested considerable amounts of money, often taking out loans, in the expectation that they will be able to complete their installations and make an application before 31 March. Although the latest proposal to close the scheme on 29 February may alleviate the problem for some people, this question remains: how many businesses and individuals who have already invested considerable sums will be affected, and to what extent, by the decision to close the scheme early? As MLAs, we have all received those details in our emails and in phone calls to our constituency offices.”
“It is important, however, that I provide the House with details of the Committee's scrutiny of the renewable heat incentive and of the Committee’s limited consideration of the SR. <BR /> <BR />I want to start by putting on the record a very brief history of the Committee's consideration of the renewable heat incentive. On 11 April 2013, the Committee asked the Department to provide biannual updates on the implementation of the scheme. That resulted in an update being received more than one year later on 5 June 2014 and a further written briefing five months after that on 4 November 2014. Since that time, the Department has not considered it necessary to provide further progress reports or updates to the Committee, despite requests for updates on a twice-yearly basis.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire as an ráiteas sin. I thank the Minister for his contribution. <BR /> <BR />The first official notification that the Committee had of these proposals was through papers from the Department that were tabled at last week's Committee meeting on Tuesday 9 February. The proposals were for an immediate closure of the scheme following the agreement of the Assembly today. As the Committee had no prior notification of the proposals, it could not engage in proper scrutiny and was only able to note the statutory rule. Therefore, the statutory rule comes to the House without proper scrutiny of the proposals as laid down in Standing Order 43(1).”
“Does the Member accept that that has been the big issue and problem with rural proofing, in that, before, it was like grandma and apple pie, as it considered it but did not really do anything about it? The major point in and the nub of the issue for those living in rural communities is that we do not want another wish list. We do not want more grandma and apple pie; we want to see productive delivery.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The whole issue around some of the amendments — I have looked at them — is to give more and stronger protections to rural communities and people living in rural areas. I, like you, am one of them. I would like to hear more on what the DUP rationale is. It appears that we are going to a point of being anti-rural. I am sure that that is not your logic, but that seems to be the conclusion.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I will go back to something that is near and dear to your own heart, which is Horizon 2020. Will the Minister advise how many applications the Department or trusts in his remit have submitted in relation to those streams of funding? What has the drawdown figure been so far specifically on Horizon 2020?”
“I might be picking this up wrongly, Mr McCartney, but, as I read it, that bit is covered by your amendment No 48. There is that power to do whatever is required with the person who refuses to assist. We are probably talking about two slightly different things there. I absolutely agree with amendment No 48; it is just amendment No 47 that I am not clear on.”
“With respect to Mr McCartney, the compulsion is not for them to come forward; the compulsion is for them to assist. That is the bit that I am not sure of.”
“I hear what the Member is saying, and I have looked at amendment No 48. However, to deal specifically with amendment No 47, how do you compel someone to assist? I am looking for a bit of elaboration on that. It has not been unknown for people to sit there absolutely silent and say nothing when they are under investigation. How do you compel someone to assist if they simply refuse to do so? How do you determine that they are not assisting you? I agree entirely with the thrust of your second amendment, but, on the first one, I want to hear how that would be done.”
“<BR /> <BR />Again, I wish to place on record my thanks to the officials at the Committee, the Clerk and all the staff who have been very helpful to me personally over the last while. I appreciate that, at times, trying to keep me right is a big task. Thanks very much to Christine and all the staff and, latterly, on this scheme, to the officials from the Department for their cooperation and assistance in drafting this legislation.”
“The issue has been raised with us as to whether the situation with regard to young shots — particularly game shots, who are outside the remit of clay pigeon shooting but are nevertheless very enthusiastic about their sport and commencing their sport — should be kept under review with a view to potentially extending the scheme for young shots to people who are not engaged with or associated with clay pigeon shooting but are engaged with normal country sports, as we would know them, in the fields and out in the countryside. I ask that the Minister would clarify whether, in fact, that would be kept under review with a view to potentially extending and expanding it further.”
“There is the whole issue of training for those firearms dealers in what the new legislation will be, how it will work and how, in fact, they will work it with, for example, one-off/one-on transactions. The fees with that will be very important to ensure that it does not get a wee bit glitchy. It is common sense to us and all that, but those firearms dealers will require training. <BR /> <BR />There is very little need to say anything further. The Minister has introduced the capacity for young shots to be introduced on clay pigeon shoots.”
“All that I am asking for is clarification from the Minister that, in fact, that firearms certificate for a shotgun does include someone who comes into the country, say, from England, and is an expert shot and may be an expert coach in clay pigeon shooting and that, in fact, that phrase covers them in their supervisory capacity. <BR /> <BR />The other items include the category bands applicable to firearms. Those have been worked out well. Eventually, we got there. Some of them have made a whole lot of common sense before now and it is good to see those bands there. The one wee thing — and, again, perhaps, the Minister would advise us on this — is that some firearms dealers whom we spoke to thought that the bands were already in place. There is a wee bit of confusion out there, among a small number of people.”
“I asked for clarity around that specifically, as it may apply to the supervision of a young person on a clay pigeon shoot or, as has been mentioned, in a shotgun club. Maybe the Minister would put on record that, in fact, there are people who are specialists — experts, if you want to call them that — and known coaches who come from the UK and will not have a firearms certificate but will have a shotgun certificate. In the UK, you do not need a firearms certificate to possess a shotgun, but you obviously require a shotgun certificate. We do not want a situation.”
“I thank those officials who engaged positively with the Committee for their efforts in presenting the amendments to accommodate shooters; people of the shooting fraternity and those involved in shooting sports. The contribution of those sports to the local economy should be clearly put on record. The shooting fraternity and those involved in shooting sports in the countryside input £28 million directly to the local economy. We have heard from a range of stakeholders, including clay pigeon shooters, at the Committee. <BR /> <BR />Specifically with regard to the amendments, I see that paragraph 2(2)(b) of the new schedule 4 to the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004 makes a change for a person who has attained the age of 21 and has held a firearms certificate for three years. I raised that issue in the Committee.”
“We could probably have been here much earlier, had the course of dialogue and the practice of working together been adopted, but, anyway, we are where we are, and we have made considerable progress.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as na dlíthe a thabhairt os ár gcomhair. Thanks very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for bringing the legislation before us today. I also thank the Chair of the Committee for Justice for his very kind remarks. An expert is not something I would ever associate myself with being just because I do something, but thank you for giving me the title momentarily today. <BR /> <BR />I, too, will speak in support of amendment Nos 59 and 82. Specifically, I place on record my thanks to the Gun Trade Guild Northern Ireland, BASC and, indeed, Countryside Alliance for their expert input. Without them, we would not have been where we are.”
“The Committee asked the Department if, when the legislation is changed, it is envisaged that the Trading Standards Service would respond to a tender for the appointment of a new lead enforcement authority for the UK. The Department responded that it considers it unlikely that DETI would respond to any tender to become the lead enforcement authority but that, on balance, DETI should be included in the proposed amendment of the Estate Agents Act 1979, so that it is treated on an equal footing with all the other existing enforcement authorities in the UK and Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Having fully considered the proposals, the Committee supports DETI in seeking the Assembly's endorsement of the legislative consent motion.”
“It was unclear from the information provided by the Department whether DETI would apply to become the new lead enforcement authority.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. On 9 October 2015, the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment wrote to the Committee to advise that the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills had informed him that proposed provisions to amend the Estate Agents Act 1979, which are included in the UK Housing and Planning Bill, were required to enable the Secretary of State for BIS to appoint a new lead enforcement authority, as necessary, by means of a tender process. The enforcement authority could be any trading standards department in GB, as the Minister said, or DETI in Northern Ireland, through the Trading Standards Service. <BR /> <BR />The Committee noted that, although BIS carried out a broad-ranging consultation in 2011, which included Northern Ireland, there were no responses from Northern Ireland to the proposal.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra. The active ageing strategy, in common with a number of other strategies included within the role of OFMDFM, will be transferred to the Department for Communities in the next mandate. Will the Minister outline what level of communication and discussion has taken place to ensure that that transition is as smooth as possible?”
“I am coming to it right now. Thank you for your indulgence. <BR /> <BR />In the face of growing demand for its services and in recognition of the very positive impact that InterTradeIreland has on economic growth and development across the island, what assurances can the Minister give that its budget will not continue to be eroded at that level?”
“I fully endorse that. Its work has been tremendous, and its support of the SME sector in particular has been phenomenal. <BR /> <BR />Although I welcome the additional funding allocated to InterTradeIreland in January monitoring, it should be noted that the additional funding does not contribute to the baseline for future InterTradeIreland budgets, leaving it very vulnerable to further cuts in future budgets. The budget for InterTradeIreland continues to decline in the face of what the Minister rightly referred to as growing demand right across the island of Ireland. Despite increased demand for its services, the budget remains at 30% below the 2008 level. Therefore —”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas. Thanks very much, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I again thank the Minister. In his statement, the Minister referred to the:”
“Will the Minister provide detail on what those developments are, which stakeholders will be monitoring them and the nature of the monitoring that is ongoing?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire as a ráiteas. I thank the Minister for his statement. He stated:”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. A recent evidence session at the Justice Committee heard that there appeared to be major deficits in the communication between senior management and members of the Prison Officers' Association. Will the Minister advise whether he or his office has taken any measures to improve that? On the basis of what we heard, there seemed to be very limited, if any, communication, particularly on the previous report on the prison.”
“I thank the Member for giving way, and I appreciate the point that he is making — as ever, very openly. That is one thing. However, will the Member accept that to condemn the Tories for awful and catastrophic welfare reform and then to hand the power right back to those Tories over welfare reform really goes from the sublime to the utterly ridiculous?”
“— could lead to a 3% fall, which is £1 billion per annum to the Northern economy. I ask the Minister whether an assessment has been done of how the drop in funds that a Brexit would bring about would impact on budgets.”
“With that comes the potential to realise €40 million and €42 million respectively in match funding. Has any consideration been given to or any assessment made at departmental level of the potential impact of the loss of that funding? Mr McMullan referred to the number of people who avail themselves of such payments for the success of their farming business. I had an Assembly question for written answer responded to today. The number of people who availed themselves of the basic farm payment or whose farms are eligible for the payment as businesses is 22,213. <BR /> <BR />The output of the Northern Ireland economy is estimated to be £33 billion per annum. Research shows that a Brexit —”
“That is crucial in the context of corporation tax. Nobody has ever said that it is a silver bullet. We want to make sure that, whatever type of bullet it is, the other aspects of what can make it work will be there through the appropriate investment. <BR /> <BR />A very key aspect that has not been looked at or mentioned is Brexit. What do I mean by that? From 2007 to 2013, we have had investment here of £2·4 billion. I have just caught up on some figures. In the 2014-2020 programme of EU funding, there is the potential to realise €229 million under one of the EU programmes. Under INTERREG, there is another €240 million.”
“Will that reduction in non-ring-fenced DEL be appropriately supplemented by capital and additional allocations, as mentioned in the Stormont House Agreement? The figures and facts have to be returned to us. We spoke with officials today at the Enterprise, Trade and Investment Committee. They did not have access to the level of detail as to what the budgetary commitments were for Invest NI or Tourism NI, specifically around job creation. How much has been committed? How much leverage is left? How much financial elbow room is left for job creation? That is a key element that we need to know. Tied in with corporation tax, and any potential that arises from it, will be the capacity of Invest NI to respond to requirements of FDIs and the capacity to have an economic environment and skill set here that matches the requirements of those FDIs.”
“The last thing that you want to do is penalise people and make it more difficult for them to access education. Fundamentally, from the SDLP's point of view, education is a liberator. It frees things up. It allows people to advance themselves, their families and their communities. Historically, that has been the case, so we certainly do not want to leave people feeling that they are less able to access education and the form of economic and social liberation that education brings with it. Go raibh maith agat as sin, a Mháirtín. <BR /> <BR />There are key issues and elements. A significant reduction in non-ring-fenced resource DEL is apparent in the Invest NI and tourism bracket of the Budget; there is a £10 million reduction.”
“That is a key element of the Budget and the main focus for cuts within the budgetary remit of DFE. Much has been made today of the opportunities that exist through additional corporation tax powers. If we do not have the skills to match the FDIs that are coming here, or those that potentially might come here, we have a significant and substantial problem. If we are not investing in those —”
“The budget for higher education has been cut by just under £12 million. That is significant and substantial. This excerpt is lifted directly from the 2016-17 Budget document:”
“Employment services provided to those who struggle to obtain work will be transferred, as we know, to the Department for Communities. That may have been the reason for the cuts.”
“Given that the financial outlook in the United Kingdom is gradually getting worse, the North's low-wage and low-skill economy is not best equipped to perform well and create prosperity. That is a major challenge for us. <BR /> <BR />The projected 5·7% maximum cuts, as outlined by Minister Foster last December, will not impact on the Department for the Economy (DFE) in the same way as other Departments. That is not to say that it will not suffer from financial losses; there is a 3% cut to non-ring-fenced resource DEL. On inspection, it appears that that large cut may be reflective of the fact that the employment services provided by the old Department for Employment and Learning will not be within the remit of DFE.”
“The PwC economic outlook report of 2015 states that our local economy has been characterised traditionally as a job creation economy rather an economy driven by productivity. That suggests that we have been able to create jobs despite productivity levels being low. Educational underachievement is ever-present. The OECD international comparison study of last year shows that, in the North, academic ability among 16- and 17-year-olds is among the lowest in the United Kingdom and that wealth generation options are relatively low due to the size of our private sector. Our private sector accounts for only one third of our total economic output. As a result, as we are all aware, a heavy burden is placed on the public sector.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. The 2016-17 Budget document states:”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Mo bhuíochas leis an Aire. I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he clarify the way in which the skills barometer and associated data is shared with businesses?”
“<BR /> <BR />That concludes my comments. Once again, I thank the Department, its officials and the Committee staff.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 15(4), as introduced, makes all regulations under clause 15(2) subject to negative resolution. The Examiner of Statutory Rules (ESR) recommended to the Committee that clause 15 be amended to make regulations under clause 15(2) subject to affirmative procedure where they amend primary legislation and subject to negative resolution in other cases, as the Minister outlined. The Committee accepted the ESR's recommendation and the Department provided the wording of the amendment as suggested by the Examiner. Commenting on the amendment, the Examiner said that the Department may wish to consider a small amendment to clause 15(4) to reflect new clause 15(3A). The Committee is content with clause 15, subject to the proposed amendment, and is content with the wording of the proposed amendment.”
“The Committee was content that it had fully explored the possibility of allowing unincorporated associations the facility to open credit union accounts in the name of the entity in the current legislation but that there is insufficient time to achieve the support of all parties to enable full consideration of what is a complex matter involving a range of stakeholders here and in GB. <BR /> <BR />Following evidence from officials and on the recommendation of the Committee, the Department agreed to bring an amendment to the Bill to insert new clause 13A, which will make provision for a review of section 1 — currently clause 1 — to commence within two years, as the Minister said, of Royal Assent and for a report to the Assembly. The Committee was content with clause 1, subject to the inclusion of the new clause 13A.”
“Treasury states that, in practice, the rules of individual associations will determine the rights and duties of the members between themselves and that the characteristics of unincorporated associations have historically been determined by case law rather than set out in legislation.”
“Lack of a separate legal identity is the reason why, in terms of legislative drafting, unincorporated associations must be represented by individuals who act under delegated or implied authority on behalf of the organisation.”