Mervyn Storey
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It will be noted that there are those who cry much about the environment and purport to be the champions of the environment who did not have the courtesy to come to the House and be present when the statement was being made.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Clearly, there are some in the House who want to continue with the same old, same old and get the same outcomes at a huge cost to the public purse and to farms in Northern Ireland. The Minister is absolutely right: it is a scourge.”
“I am sure that the Minister will be aware, having listened to the Member who spoke before me, that the farmers of North Antrim will make an informed choice about who best supported farmers during this mandate of the Assembly.”
“A pilot scheme has been operating with the Education Authority, the PSNI and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust across 60 schools in the south Down area since September 2021 and was extended to a further 77 schools in the Newry and south Armagh areas at the start of February 2022.”
“As Chair of the Justice Committee, I am pleased to welcome the motion. It implements the provisions taken forward by the Committee in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 to establish an Operation Encompass model in Northern Ireland, which is, as the Minister has outlined, a police and early intervention pa…”
“We had our final meeting of that Committee this morning, and I want to place on the public record our appreciation and thanks to our Committee staff of for all the work that they have done.”
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“That is the case. I will say again as I have said before in the House, when will we have respect for Northern Ireland? As we stand on the verge of celebrating our 100th anniversary, there are still derogatory comments like "the North". That is Donegal and Malin Head, because "the North" in Northern Ireland is Rathlin. Let us have some respect. Let us show respect to Northern Ireland. What we have seen over the last days is an attempt to undermine the democratic principles. Ms Mallon said that there will be another referendum: "We will undo what has been done". What if that referendum gives us the same outcome? Will they then accept the democratic wish of the people of the United Kingdom? <BR /> <BR />Most Members will know that I do not read a lot of books. I have plenty of books, but I am not the world's greatest reader.”
“We have heard in the Chamber today all the woes, all the ills, all the concerns and all the difficulties that will beset us as we leave the European Union, but let us remember that we do so not because there was a democratic deficit but because the United Kingdom voted so to do. <BR /> <BR />We have heard a lot today about the principle of consent. As my colleague rightly said in an intervention, all of a sudden, the principle of consent has almost been consigned to history by the references to the Belfast Agreement. Let us remember —.”
“I am glad to take part in today's debate. The First Minister opened the debate by quoting one of our nation's greatest prime ministers Sir Winston Churchill, and the Member who spoke previously, Mr Dickson, also quoted him. I will follow in that vein. It was Sir Winston Churchill who said that:”
“I thank the Minister for clarifying, because, for some time, we have been waiting for the subregional transport plan. I have been in correspondence with her in relation to the continuation of the A26 in my constituency, which would connect Ballymena right through to Coleraine. Obviously it is very important. <BR /> <BR />The Minister did say late 20-21. Is she saying that it will be published before the end of this year, or like most things, will it be pushed into 2021 in terms of the latter part of the year, so that it will not be published this year but will be published next year?”
“The Minister refers to the £350 million: will he clarify whether that £350 million is no longer available? If that is the case, what does the Finance Minister have left in unallocated moneys? Obviously, there is a huge demand on that money for a variety of services. Does he see that any of that money will be used to meet the commitment to additional police officers?”
“<BR /> <BR />I take this opportunity, just in case it passes me by — I may not have the opportunity tomorrow — to wish Members a very happy Christmas, ever remembering that the message at this time of the year is that, unto us, a Saviour was born. That is what we all need in these critical days.”
“I thank the Minister for his response. Will he clarify what he sees as the distinction between an equality screening and carrying out an equality impact assessment (EQIA)? He will be aware that the Scottish Government have already commissioned a specific EQIA on behalf of the Scottish police pension scheme advisory board. He will also be aware that there are a number of schemes in Northern Ireland, not just one that affects police officers in particular. Will the Minister ensure that there will be no inequalities in relation to how that is rolled out and, ultimately, how it will affect police officers?”
“Will the Minister give an assurance that his officials will continue that discussion to ensure that that way is still open for faith-based organisations to engage and become beneficiaries of this fund?”
“It is disappointing that four years or more have elapsed since I left the Department, and only now are we getting to the point where an announcement is being made about the fund. <BR /> <BR />Following on from my colleague Paul Frew's question, I appreciate what you said about an exchange or discussion with faith-based organisations, or that you informed them that none of the money emanates from gambling, but that is only one of their concerns. The issue for faith-based organisations is the association with the lottery. It was always intended to have a fund whereby faith-based organisations, which have suffered severely during the COVID crisis and before, would be able to access money without recourse to the National Lottery.”
“On that very point, the Minister is well aware that a company in Ballycastle in my constituency has launched a new air sterilisation product and therefore taken advantage of an opportunity. The company also has a cross-border element, in that it has joined up with other companies in the Irish Republic. Will she welcome that innovation, which proves that, although there have been many challenges, there have also been opportunities for businesses, with many rising to the challenge of the opportunity presented to them?”
“On that point, the Member will know that Wrightbus, in my constituency, along with Energia, has been pioneering much work on hydrogen. The reality is, however, that when you compare the amount of money that is being invested in hydrogen with the millions, or perhaps even billions, of pounds that are required to achieve what the Member is referring to, you will see that we are not at the races. From where does the Member see the money coming? Although I support what he is seeking to achieve, these are big-ticket issues, and they are going to cost a considerable amount of money.”
“Will the Minister clarify whether there has been collaboration with the Department for Communities in relation to this initiative?”
“On a point of order, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. It seems that Members can clarify things that they have said. May I clarify that the name change did not happen under my watch? However, it happened during a suspension of the Assembly, so perhaps the Finance Minister and his party should take responsibility for it”
“I seek clarification from the Minister on two things, although I could be wrong about them. First, with regard to the involvement of the Department of Education — I declare an interest as a governor of two schools in my constituency — the procurement processes in that Department are woeful. We are being done over in that process at a cost to the public purse. Secondly, will the Minister explain what the relationship will be between the board, as reconstituted, and CPD, because many are still sceptical as to whether we can get delivery on procurement?”
“I have to say that that was a surreal moment in the Civil Service. I trust that we will see real progress. I welcome the fact that the construction industry is now involved.”
“I welcome the statement. The Minister will be aware that I, as a former Finance Minister, raised concerns about procurement in the past. I trust that today's announcement is about more than a name change, as was the case previously. We had the famous change from CPD to CPD.”
“Does the deputy First Minister accept that it has been hugely frustrating for the public to see this fiasco being played out for the last number of months when, at the weekend, in north Down, people were put off the beach for going for a swim? She and her colleagues, some of whom are in this House, attended a funeral in breach of the regulations, and, months later, we are still playing out this pantomime of giving the right, accurate account to the law.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she accept that the RHI inquiry also highlighted serious misgivings about and failings in the Civil Service? Will she, when we are on the issue of openness of transparency, agree that, if you wanted to read the most ambiguous and limited set of minutes, you should go on to the Executive's website and read the most recent iteration of the weekly meeting held by the head of the Civil Service? You will see a large need for openness and transparency.”
“That is not how it is portrayed. We have always been told that there are more spads in the Executive Office than there are in Westminster, but that is not the case.”
“Apologies, Mr Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />There are four pay bands for spads. Band 1 is from £40,000 to £60,000; band 2 is from £57,000 to £78,000; band 3 is from £73,000 to £102,000; and band 4 is from £96,000 to £145,000. Sometimes, the generalities expressed about what individuals are paid and how many there are are not always rooted in fact.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I concur with a lot of what he said. However, there is a fallacy that somehow we have more spads, and there have been all sorts of quotations about that. There are 24 spads in the Prime Minister's office. You can look this up, as I just did there now. Dominic Cummings is on almost £100,000. There are four pay bands for special advisers.”
“I will conclude, because I can see my colleague Jim down in the corner. I give an assurance to Members that I have not been in a darkened room; I have not been accosted; I have not spoken to one spad; I have not had any arm-twisting; and I have not had anybody from the party come to me saying, "This is what you will say, Storey, and if you do not say that, you will be up in front of the hierarchy in the morning". I am glad to support the comments that outline my party's position on the Bill.”
“If we make progress on the Bill, it will be to the betterment of the governance of the House and ensure that decisions are made in a way that is open.”
“Yes, thank you. <BR /> <BR />Transparency and openness, whether it is in the appointment of spads, the keeping of minutes or what certain people are paid — all of that — should not be anything that any Member of the House should run away from. We should not have to conceal anyone's payments. The clauses that we are discussing give the House an opportunity to make change and not change for the sake of trying to placate some political wish list. <BR /> <BR />Let us remember why we are here. Are we really here to serve ourselves? That is not what we tell the electorate when we go to the door. We are here to serve the community of Northern Ireland. Addressing the issues through the Bill will help us to give more confidence to people, despite all the scepticism and all the concern in our communities about the very existence of this place.”
“I welcome the fact that he took on the responsibility — very willingly, I have to say. At a Chairpersons' liaison meeting, he put his hand up and said, "We would be happy to take the Bill and take responsibility for its scrutiny". I place on record my appreciation for his being willing, because it is a huge task that the Committee has undertaken. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is rooted in a desire for change, and change is coming. The party opposite has lectured us for a long time about openness and transparency. What openness and transparency has there been by the party opposite in regard to even something as sacred as a funeral? Really, I think that that raises —.”
“Let me pause there, because what the Bill does is to prove the merit of private Members' Bills. It is difficult to get agreement to get anything through the Executive. Collectively, we should take this to heart. Private Member's Bills have a place and a purpose, if they are accepted and found to pass the tests that are set for the acceptance of a Bill. Some of us are working on private Members' Bills on other issues, and we see where the challenges and difficulties arise. When it goes into a Committee of the House, the Bill becomes owned by that Committee and not so much by the sponsor of the Bill. There is merit, and it is good, even for this flawed democracy, that we use the processes that we have. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Chair of the Finance Committee, and it is probably from a personal perspective rather than anything else.”
“<BR /> <BR />The late John Ramsay, chairman of the North Antrim Unionist Association, a colleague in the Ulster Unionist Party, served with me on the old council in Ballymoney. He said that a political manifesto was only good for the day of the election and that, after that, the world moved on. Sometimes, some have to stick to what they say in their manifesto. I will quote from one. I was going to give my colleague Paul Frew credit for what he has done in bringing many of the issues of the Bill to the Floor today, but let me quote:”
“Yes. I noticed your impatience, Mr Deputy Speaker. As we head into next year, with the centenary of Northern Ireland, we will be able to have that discussion and set right some of the misconceptions that there have been. I heard some on the opposite Benches talking about a failed state. <BR /> <BR />What are we trying to do with the Bill? We are trying to do what my party has set out previously. I pay tribute to my North Antrim colleague: on this occasion, I refer to Mr Frew. I have other North Antrim colleagues who have worked on it: the sponsor of the Bill and Mr McGuigan, who was eloquently quoting scripture earlier. We are having an influence on him, I trust, for good.”
“I thank the Member, although I do not agree. Let us remember that, when we had our own Government, we had an education system that was fit for purpose and we made decisions that were for the benefit of all in the community. What happened and what I readily admit to was that there was discrimination against working-class communities, unionist and nationalist. My grandfather had no vote. Why? He had no land. When we come to the context of the reasons why we have —.”
“This is not the same as any other jurisdiction in the United Kingdom, where the Government are appointed on the basis of who wins the election. Here, everybody is in the Government, when it suits them. Of course, we know that there are times when every party takes the view that some decisions are not collective, and they go their own way. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is a recognition that there is a need for change. The Member referred to Mr Muir's point that it was about going back to factory settings. I would say that it is about more than that, in that, as originally constructed, the factory had fundamental flaws. Who in their right mind would create a Government with five parties? Really? It is no wonder that we have chaos. It is no wonder that we have all the difficulties and challenges that we do. It is not easy.”
“I am sure that the country will be all the worse for that. <BR /> <BR />The fact that the Bill was necessary is an indication that we have not got it right. I commend the Bill's sponsor. Just today, I was thinking that it is almost 40 years since I first met him. I was a very young schoolboy, I have to say, and I was going to a meeting of what was then the North Antrim association. As the secretary of that association, I was in absolute fear of the legal mind of a man who would quiz every detail of the minutes of the meetings that I had taken. I commend him, because the Bill recognises that many of us are, like him, totally opposed to the architecture of this place, with the structures that we have to work under and the mandatory nature of our coalition. This is not a normal democracy.”
“That brings us to consider the need for any legislation. Why do we need laws? Why do we not just live by our own opinions, ideas and views? Why is there a need for legislation in a modern society? It is because there is a fallen humanity. We are not perfect. We are human. We make mistakes. We err. It is good for politicians to recognise that. <BR /> <BR />I have been in the House since 2003, and the one thing that I have always struggled with is that it is almost impossible to find a Member on any Bench who will stand up and say, "Do you know what? We got it wrong". It seems as though, every time that there is a debate, we are always right, we always have the answer, and we never have the sense of being able to admit that there is error on our part. The legislation and the clauses —.”
“We should all take that to heart for this reason: we are dealing with flawed humanity. I will continue the biblical quotations. The apostle Paul said in Romans 7:”
“Listening to the debate in the House and then upstairs in my office, I was really taken aback by the number of biblical quotations I heard. The Member has just mentioned conversion, so I was reasonably comfortable coming to the House, given that today is the 448th anniversary of the death of that well-known Scottish reformer, John Knox, who famously said:”
“I thank the Minister for giving way and for the interest that she has shown in that issue. Wrightbus is in my constituency of North Antrim. Can she assure the House that she is aware of the concerns raised by the general manager, Buta Atwal, and Jo Bamford, who presented to the Infrastructure Committee a couple of weeks ago, and their frustration over the lack of progress? They are businessmen. They work in a business environment. They do not, thankfully, work at the pace worked at in this Building or in any other bureaucracy. Can you assure us that there is a degree of haste in trying to bring forward some of those schemes?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Over the weekend, it was confirmed that Sinn Féin had emailed thousands of party members and supporters to tell them that the wake for Bobby Storey would be public. That is at odds with what the deputy First Minister told the Committee for the Executive Office on 1 July: "We actively discouraged people". Mr Speaker, I ask you to inform the House about what sanctions the House has on Ministers who mislead a Committee of the Assembly and show a total and blatant disregard for the rules and regulations of the House during the crisis.”
“I thank the Minister for that confirmation; it is welcome. Will the Minister, in the spirit in which she has responded to the concerns that have been raised, engage with the Policing Board, PCSPs, the councils and the other elements of the statutory agencies, until we ensure that we find a funding model that is appropriate? Obviously, the work that has been achieved to date has brought success and is something that we want to build on for the future.”
“Following a meeting that we had with Wrightbus in my North Antrim constituency, the Minister will be aware of the importance of the issue to that company. Given the importance of hydrogen, what undertakings and information can the Minister give us on discussions that she has had with the UK Government about drawing down our share of the money that was allocated for zero-emission buses? Will she also give a commitment to ensure that the matter goes right across the Executive — it is for not only her Department but the Department for the Economy and other Ministers — so that we get an outcome rather than just proposals and plans?”
“I thank the Member for letting me in. I will clarify for the Member that I have been a member of the DUP since I was 15, and we do not take our instructions from London. Unlike the party opposite, we do not have an army council to give us our instructions.”
“Of course, the Member for Foyle keeps the law, unlike the previous contributor, who, in her tweet today advocated that we should keep to the COVID-19 rules. It is a pity that she did not apply the same rules when she attended the funeral of Bobby Storey.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In light of the RHI report, will you refer the Member's comments? Will the Member's comments be investigated in light of what she claimed in the House today? Clearly, what she said was not in keeping with the inquiry's findings. Therefore, I ask her to withdraw her comments.”
“On that, I was interested to hear what Clare Bailey said and the point that she made very well in relation to the overfishing of the stocks. That happened during our time in the European Union. Who was it that was coming in and pillaging our fish stocks? The very same people who we are glad to say goodbye to in the European Parliament, who wanted to have our fish and to have it on their terms. The Minister is absolutely right that, from now on, it should be on our terms.”
“I have listened to the Committee Chair and the Member talking about the great relationships that have existed between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. However, it was only in 2019 that they were forced to put into law something that had been in place since the 1960s, providing access for boats from Northern Ireland to fish off the limits of the Irish Republic. I have to say that it took them a long time to catch on, excuse the pun. Clearly, that proves that they wanted the benefit of our waters, and we were unable to get the benefit of theirs.”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the House, although it is regrettable that there was no indication on Friday that she was coming to the House about the matter. Perhaps it is as a result of questions for urgent answer being submitted that she has come. However, will the Minister confirm if her officials or PPS officials have been in discussion with the PSNI to establish whether there are any risks for offences currently being investigated or being prepared for submission to the PPS?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. We have heard a lot of eulogies about the fantastic work that the GAA has done in our constituency — that of the Health Minister, Mr Allister and me — but, for completeness, will the Member add to his list the most disgraceful display that we had in Dunloy when Dunloy beat Loughguile at hurling? There was a band parade — the irony of it — in Dunloy for which — thanks to confirmation from the Parades Commission — there had been no notification or 11/1. Not only did they flout the health laws in Dunloy at the party that they had — it is on social media — they also flouted the laws that they, in that very village, tell us that we must keep. The hypocrisy of the Members opposite bears no resemblance to reality. It is shameful. I ask the Member who represents the area to comment.”
“It is absolutely disgraceful to see where weeds are, at the front of this Building, and maybe, before 2021, that could also be addressed.”
“I thank the representative of the Commission for his answer. Given that there is a considerable number of artefacts that are held outside of this Building, and that it would be of paramount importance that they have the opportunity to be brought back into this Building, and given that they are aligned with the history and significance of the centenary, will he ensure that this goes back to the Commission and that that will be looked at as an issue of importance? <BR /> <BR />Also, there are many who have concerns about the Building being subject to a "greening" process over the last number of years. Will he also take back to the Commission the problem with weeds outside the Building, because if we are going to have a centenary and a Building that is fit for purpose, could somebody take time to get the place tidied up outside?”
“— to hasten and prioritise the issue. That would be very welcome.”
“Although the motion and the amendment are not the perfect place that we would want to be in, if the guarantees that have been given in this House today are delivered on, I think that we can begin to try address this issue. I urge the Minister —”
“I think that the Member is seeking, as always, to create a diversion: "It wasn't us". I am glad to be able to stand in this House today and say that I have never been supportive of a private army that has been responsible for the murder of innocent victims in Northern Ireland and then tried to justify it as though it was some campaign for human rights or some ills that had been heaped on society. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, Mr Deputy Speaker —.”