Mervyn Storey
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It will be noted that there are those who cry much about the environment and purport to be the champions of the environment who did not have the courtesy to come to the House and be present when the statement was being made.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Clearly, there are some in the House who want to continue with the same old, same old and get the same outcomes at a huge cost to the public purse and to farms in Northern Ireland. The Minister is absolutely right: it is a scourge.”
“I am sure that the Minister will be aware, having listened to the Member who spoke before me, that the farmers of North Antrim will make an informed choice about who best supported farmers during this mandate of the Assembly.”
“A pilot scheme has been operating with the Education Authority, the PSNI and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust across 60 schools in the south Down area since September 2021 and was extended to a further 77 schools in the Newry and south Armagh areas at the start of February 2022.”
“As Chair of the Justice Committee, I am pleased to welcome the motion. It implements the provisions taken forward by the Committee in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 to establish an Operation Encompass model in Northern Ireland, which is, as the Minister has outlined, a police and early intervention pa…”
“We had our final meeting of that Committee this morning, and I want to place on the public record our appreciation and thanks to our Committee staff of for all the work that they have done.”
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“Bringing forward legislation is all well and good, but there has to be a grasp and understanding of the purpose and intent of that legislation. As was the case with other justice legislation, such as the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act and the Protection from Stalking Bill, the provision of training for the criminal justice agencies and the judiciary on the new offences and data collection to assess the implementation of the new offences and their effectiveness were highlighted as being necessary. <BR /> <BR />Departmental officials advised the Committee that the Department intended to establish a task and finish group on which all operational partners would be represented to address the issues of practitioner guidance and awareness-raising of the new offences with all those on whom they impact.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No 11 is the Committee's proposed amendment to place a duty on the Department to provide and review, in due course, guidance, training and data collection on Part 1 of the Bill. A number of stakeholders referenced the need for guidance, training and data collection on a number of the clauses in Part 1, including for the new offences of upskirting and downblousing. While the PSNI advised of the need for operational guidance in respect of live streaming and how it would be captured and explained to provide the necessary evidence, other organisations highlighted that comprehensive guidance and public education was required to ensure that new offences were fully understood. That is an issue that we need to pay relevant attention to.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee acknowledged that the children's organisations raised important issues regarding the reality of child sexual exploitation and the type of inducements that are used to entice children, but it also accepted the difficulty in trying to cover intangible inducements in legislation. It is of the view that the wording of the current definition does not make it clear that payment is not necessarily defined as financial but could include goods and services such as those described by departmental officials. In the interests of achieving clarity, the Committee therefore agreed to table amendment No 6. Although the Minister initially, and without having had sight of its text, indicated that she would not support the amendment, I welcome her change of position, as outlined in the Assembly today.”
“The officials advised that payment was not necessarily defined as being financial and could include, for example, accommodation, food or drugs. They also stated that, until evidence was received by the Committee from the children's organisations about the definition not fully reflecting the reality that children and young people face when they are exploited, groomed or abused, no particular issue had been raised about intangible rewards. In the officials' view, it was not a significant gap that needed to be addressed, and they felt that the current definition provided a sufficiently broad base through which a wide range of financial and non-financial rewards would be captured.”
“I place on record the Committee's appreciation to them, given the timescales to which they had to work and the challenges that they faced owing to the availability of personnel. <BR /> <BR />I will now address the Committee's amendments in group 1, before turning to those tabled by the Minister and by Mr Allister. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 6 is the Committee's proposed amendment to clause 3. It provides clarity that payments can be other than financial, and I welcome the Minister's indication that she is not opposed to the amendment. Although it is supportive of clause 3, the Committee discussed with Department of Justice officials whether "paying" was too narrowly defined and whether it should be extended to include paying though inducements other than money.”
“I thank the Member, although I have to indicate to him that those issues will come up in the debate on the second group of amendments. I certainly concur with his comments, however, and we will come back to the need for help for victims and recognition of the serious situation that people sadly find themselves in on the streets of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The Committee also appreciates the support and assistance that was provided by Assembly staff, including the Research and Information Service (RaISe), the Examiner of Statutory Rules, the Communications Office, Assembly Broadcasting, Hansard and, in particular, the Bill Clerk and our Committee Clerk and her team. They all played a very important role in supporting the Committee to undertake its legislative scrutiny of the Bill.”
“They painted a stark picture of the devastating impact that their experience had on them and their family at the time of the offence, during the handling of the case by the criminal justice agencies and since then. That set out to the Committee in a very clear and very stark way the responsibility that we have to get the Bill right and to ensure that it is comprehensive and deliverable.”
“We have considered all aspects of the Bill and the proposed amendments in as full and thorough a manner as possible within the time frame that we had, taking account of the fact that the end of the mandate is not far away. As Chair, I state my personal appreciation for the diligence of the Committee in carrying out that work. I also thank all the organisations that provided very helpful written and oral evidence and the departmental officials who provided additional information and clarification throughout the process. I can assure you that a considerable amount of clarification went between us and the departmental officials. <BR /> <BR />Most importantly, I place on record the Committee's thanks and appreciation to the individuals who met Committee members privately and shared their personal experience of being a victim.”
“To assist with scrutiny of the technical aspects of the Bill, the Committee sought advice from the Examiner of Statutory Rules on the range of powers in the Bill to make subordinate legislation. She was satisfied that the rule-making powers provided in Bill are appropriate. <BR /> <BR />The Committee considered the provisions of the Bill and the potential amendments at 18 meetings before agreeing its report on the Committee Stage at its meeting on 27 January. The Committee has undertaken further discussion and consideration of its amendments to the Bill since the report was agreed. I thank Committee members for their contributions to the detailed, robust and careful scrutiny of the Bill and of issues that were raised in evidence during Committee Stage.”
“The Committee also met privately an individual who shared their experience of being a victim and who outlined the devastating impact that it had on not only them but their family. <BR /> <BR />The Committee explored the issues with the Department of Justice officials, the PSNI and the Public Prosecution Service, both in writing and in oral evidence sessions, focusing in particular with the PSNI and the PPS on Part 1 of the Bill and the operational aspects for which they will have responsibility. To assist consideration of the specific issues raised in the evidence received, the Committee also commissioned a research paper on the practice in other jurisdictions to address cyber-flashing and deepfake pornography.”
“Unfortunately, the reality is that child sexual exploitation is happening in cities, towns and rural areas across Northern Ireland. Deep concerns have been raised about the level of under-reporting, the attrition rates and the pitifully few successful prosecutions of sexual offences in Northern Ireland for a significant period. The Bill goes some way in trying to improve the response to those unacceptable realities. It received widespread support in the written and oral evidence received by the Committee. The frustration was that the Bill did not go far enough. A wide range of proposals to extend the protective measures and support victims was brought to the attention of the Committee in the 42 written submissions received and during the 12 oral evidence sessions with key stakeholders.”
“We want to ensure that they will be as effective as possible. Therefore, we intend to further consider the potential need for amendments to clause 1 in conjunction with the Department of Justice officials following Consideration Stage. The same applies to the provision of a new offence of cyber-flashing. The Minister has indicated that, in principle, she supports the inclusion of that in the Bill but, again, has concerns about the wording of the amendment.”
“However, we still have some questions about whether the new offences are framed entirely satisfactorily, given the views and concerns that were expressed in evidence that we received on that Part of the Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I outlined during the debate at Second Stage, behaviours such as upskirting and downblousing are becoming much more prevalent and are used to distress, humiliate, control or coerce victims of such despicable behaviour. Clause 1 will provide new offences to tackle those behaviours. <BR /> <BR />While I cannot speak to the amendments that were tabled by the Committee to clause 1, following our decision to not move them, I want to assist the House in understanding the Committee's position on that clause. The decision not to move the amendments was based on discussions with the Minister last Thursday on the wording of the amendments. The Committee is supportive of clause 1.”
“Before addressing the amendments, I wish, with your indulgence, Mr Deputy Speaker, to make some general remarks about the Bill in my capacity as Chair of the Justice Committee. <BR /> <BR />The Committee supports the Bill, the additional protections that it will provide to victims of sexual offences and the improvements that it will make to the services for victims of trafficking and exploitation, and it wants to see its passage concluded before the end of the mandate. Also, the Committee supports in principle the amendments that the Minister tabled for today, which will add further protections by way of new offences in the legislation. The Committee has tabled a number of amendments that will do that as well, particularly in trafficking and exploitation. We will return to those in the debate on the group 2 amendments.”
“I commend the RUC, and I trust and pray that its vilification will come to an end.”
“Mr Speaker, I am not questioning your authority, but it is all part of our dark past. If we are to have the truth about what happened with the members of the RUC, we are also going to have to have the truth about what happened with the members of the IRA and those who have been their fellow travellers for 40 years, who still put on uniforms and go to memorials and graves to glorify them and say that it was right. Remember, it was the republican movement that talked about an Armalite in one hand and a ballot box in the other. It was the Armalite that created the burials, the orphans and the graves. <BR /> <BR />Today, I stand here proud of a family member who served in the RUC.”
“The party opposite has supported and glorified the IRA, a murderous machine that cost lives and created orphans and whose members could not even tell families from their own community the truth about where they buried their loved ones. Is it not time that we had the truth? <BR /> <BR />Members from the party opposite always like to talk to us about truth and justice —”
“I stand as a former member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board. No one should take any joy or any sense of glorification in a murderous campaign that left widows, orphans and broken families. <BR /> <BR />I have a brother who has proudly served in the Royal Ulster Constabulary Reserve and as a part-time PSNI officer for 41 years. I thank God every day that he is still alive, because, sadly, many other families heard the knock on the door and a masked terrorist shot them through the head or in the back. Sadly, there are people in the Chamber, elected to public office, who have glorified those heinous crimes; who have covered up; who have been involved in collusive behaviour; and who have not told the police all that they know about what happened. Today, I call on them to search their conscience.”
“Will the Minister assure me on the use of the phrase "collusive behaviour" — a phrase which has no legal basis but continues to be used? Unless there is evidence, we cannot continue to besmirch the memory of the RUC, which served the people of Northern Ireland faithfully and was not a terrorist organisation.”
“It ill becomes the party opposite to be crying about bringing people to justice for murder given that they supported murder in Northern Ireland for 40 years.”
“Political opportunism will not save farms in North Antrim. When will the Member opposite and his party show that they genuinely support farmers in less-favoured areas? The Member ran away from a meeting in his constituency to address the issue. Maybe he will come clean and tell the House and, more importantly, his constituents in North Antrim this: is he for farming or for political optics?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I have listened to his arguments about the science. Obviously, the Member is more interested in the optic, given that he rode his bicycle to the COP in Glasgow. I suspect, however, that he used his car to come here today.”
“As importantly, will she set out why the service did not provide the staff who undertake that difficult and challenging work with the support and guidance that they are entitled to receive when they carry out their particular jobs?”
“I thank the Minister and the director general for the time that they took to discuss the report this morning and for the reassurances that were given. I also thank the Chief Inspector for the time that she took yesterday to brief the Committee on the report. I welcome the Minister's comments that recognise the significant transformation that has taken place in our prisons since 2011. I place on record the Committee's thanks and appreciation to prison staff, who continue to undertake an extremely difficult and challenging occupation day and daily. <BR /> <BR />Will the Minister set out why the Northern Ireland Prison Service did not have a strategy or policy in place for the operation of CSUs in order to ensure that minimum standards were met and records were maintained across the system?”
“Given that this issue was particularly relevant during the pandemic, COVID moneys were made available. The Minister referred to a "funding envelope". He has received money. When will he use it to deliver that service?”
“Anyone who listened to the Minister's response will have heard that, yet again, it was littered with ambiguity and uncertainty. On one hand, the Minister says that there will be no closures, while, on the other hand, he refers to the impact on acute hospital provision. Can he give a clear assurance in the House that the future of the Causeway Hospital, which has done a huge job during the pandemic, and, without which, there could not have been service provision, will not be questioned in the overarching strategy, which seems to be his focus?”
“I thank the Minister for that commitment. Will the Minister look at the financial transactions capital that has been set in reserve? Is it possible to use that money to help to try to ensure that those contracts that were let and agreed but which there is now a difficulty with will be able to proceed?”
“I suspect that what the Member is saying is that it is not to a higher court but only to the court that made the original application. I say that just so that there is clarity on the Committee's remit.”
“The Department acknowledged that an appeal provision was not in the Bill but advised, and this is at paragraph 225 of the Committee's report:”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. To give perhaps some comfort to the Member, the issue was raised with us. The Council of District Judges (Magistrates' Courts) in Northern Ireland noted that clause 10 of the Bill:”
“I thank the Member for giving way, for the work that she did on domestic abuse in her time on the Justice Committee and for the comments that she has made about the current Committee. We are talking about this Bill and the issue in relation to training. In correspondence to us this week, the Minister has already mentioned the pause in the numbers going into Garnerville. We have a real challenge in the Budget to ensure that we also make financial provision in that regard. I know that the Member is not saying otherwise, but we need the resources to do the training. Does the Member agree that, as the Budget sits, there is a huge challenge for us in how we close that gap?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer and for the time that she took to visit some of the schools mentioned. She will be aware of the concerns in relation to the happenings around Ballycastle High School and Cross and Passion College and in relation to Dunclug. Will the Minister give an assurance that those projects will proceed, that the challenges that we face will be overcome and that those schools will see their new builds as soon as the process allows?”
“<BR /> <BR />I conclude my comments as the Chair, and will make a few comments as a Member of the House and as a member of the Justice Committee representing my party. I trust that the Bill will, as I said, have the import of changing lives for those who have been affected, and, as importantly, ensure that those who are intent on carrying out this hideous crime will see that there is no hiding place for them and their actions. I also pay tribute to those victims who, as I said previously, had the courage to come forward to us, whether in public or in private sessions that we facilitated, to ensure that their voice was heard. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, I say that, as a party, we will support all the amendments that have been tabled by the Minister, but we will not support amendment No 7, which has been tabled by Rachel Woods.”
“No doubt the individual Member, and Members, will outline their positions on this, as the Minister did earlier in the debate. <BR /> <BR />To conclude on the minor and technical amendments, the Committee is content to support amendment No 8, which will amend clause 19 to reflect the new provisions to be inserted in the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I conclude my remarks as Chair of the Committee by again acknowledging the profound and long-lasting effects that stalking behaviour has on victims, who very often have no chance or way to address how they have been treated. That is why we need to ensure that this legislation is implemented fully and effectively. That is why the amendments proposed by the Minister, at the request of the Committee, are important and will enhance the Bill.”
“Anecdotal evidence highlighted by the Suzy Lamplugh Trust suggested that the financial cost to police forces of applying for an SPO was being used as a reason to defer the responsibility of prevention back to the victim in England and Wales. For those reasons, it will be important to monitor the implementation to identify any issues at an early stage. <BR /> <BR />Rachel Woods, a Committee member and Member of the Assembly, has tabled amendment No 7 to add an additional reporting requirement in relation to section 75 information. While the Committee discussed with officials the collection of data reflecting section 75, it did not ask the Minister to include this in amendment No 6 and has not discussed this proposed amendment.”
“The Committee believes, however, that placing a requirement on the Department to report on the operation of the legislation is appropriate and will provide transparency and accountability. <BR /> <BR />Given the ever-growing use of online platforms to carry out trolling and abuse, including stalking, the Committee agreed that the reporting requirement should cover specific information on whether the offence took place in person or online. The Committee wanted to include detailed information on the use of stalking protection orders and interim orders, given that these are new tools for the PSNI to use. A number of operational issues were flagged up in the evidence.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 6 and 7 concern "Report on the operation of this Act". Amendment No 6 places a requirement on the Department to report on the new offence. Again, the Minister brought this amendment forward at the request of the Committee. The amendment will require the Department to report on the operation of the new stalking offence, the SPOs and the interim orders. It is similar to the requirement to report provided for in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act. The amendment aims to provide for the effectiveness of the legislation to be monitored and assessed in a transparent manner. This was another area that officials did not view as being necessary for inclusion in the Bill, stating that the implementation of the legislation would be reviewed periodically and they would report to the Committee on it regularly.”
“It envisaged that the training would include raising awareness of stalking typologies and the insidious nature of stalking. Work is ongoing in that area, and a commitment has been given, so its view was that there was no need for that to be in the Bill. Given the importance of training to the implementation of the legislation, particularly in light of the evidence heard about the current lack of understanding by criminal justice personnel of stalking behaviour and the devastating impact that it has on victims, the Committee agreed that it wished to see an amendment to the Bill to provide mandatory training. It is therefore supportive of amendment No 5, which the Minister brought forward at the request of the Committee. It includes a reporting requirement on the training, which the Committee also wished to see.”
“They highlighted that the education and training of staff in criminal justice agencies and of judges will be essential to ensure that there is effective implementation of the legislation and the clear understanding of the difference between harassment and stalking, as well as recognising the behaviours and dynamics of stalking and how it impacts on victims. That has been shown to be the case in other jurisdictions where stalking offences have been introduced. The need for the training to cover the SPOs and interim SPOs was also raised. <BR /> <BR />The Department advised the Committee that it did not underestimate the importance and necessity of training for all its criminal justice partners on the new offence and the stalking prevention orders.”
“However, the Minister appreciated the Committee's desire to legislate for that and tabled the relevant amendment. The Committee appreciates the Minister's cooperation and is happy to support amendment No 4. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 5 relates to training. During the Second Stage debate, the Committee highlighted the need for training for the PSNI to ensure that officers understand and recognise the difference between harassment and stalking behaviours, given previous indications from victims that their complaints were not taken seriously. That view was reflected by a wide range of representatives from organisations that provided evidence to the Committee.”
“However, it will be some time before a body of data will be built up on the stalking legislation. <BR /> <BR />The Committee is of the view that the availability of robust data is essential in order to enable the effectiveness of the legislation to be assessed. The data needs to be detailed and consistent across the criminal justice system to enable analysis to take place at each stage of the process. The Committee therefore agreed that it wished to see an amendment to the Bill that would provide for the Department to issue guidance on the type of information required. As the Minister outlined, the Department does not consider the addition of a provision to cover data collection necessary, given that it can be done administratively, and officials have given a commitment to do so.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Department advised the Committee that the PSNI, the PPS and the Northern Ireland Courts and Tribunals Service already record statistical data on offences and prosecutions etc. The new data sets would be created in relation to the new offence, stalking protection orders and interim stalking protection orders. There will be a database for monitoring purposes. The Department also indicated that it would carry out an evaluation of the new stalking legislation post implementation. When questioned on what consideration, if any, the Department had given to the collection of data reflecting the section 75 categories, officials advised that consideration is being given more generally to obtaining data and that they are sensitive to section 75 groupings.”
“Recommendations included collecting and publishing data on stalking that is disaggregated by sex, gender, ethnicity, disability and age, and recording stalking investigations through the criminal justice system, including the number of initial reports, referrals to the PPS, cases that reach different stages of the court process, cases that result in prosecutions and repeat offences that occur, as well as what the resulting remedies are. It was also considered valuable for the data to differentiate between stalking by a stranger, an acquaintance and an ex-partner, so that the prevalence of the different types of stalking and the effectiveness of the law with regard to each type can be assessed. Another suggestion was that all section 75 groups should be monitored, inclusive of sexual orientation and gender identity.”
“That amendment provides for the Department to issue guidance on the type of information and data required to be collected in order to fully and properly assess the operation of the new offence. A number of organisations highlighted the importance of the availability of detailed and robust data on stalking behaviour and the implementation of the legislation. Concerns were expressed that, currently, very little data on stalking exists in Northern Ireland.”
“While the Minister and I may have differences on many things, there has been a good working relationship when it comes to the approach that she has taken. I welcome that, because it is not about us; it is about ensuring that we deliver good legislation. We thank the Minister for that help and support. <BR /> <BR />The Committee also supports amendment No 3, which implements the proposal by the Assembly's Examiner of Statutory Rules and her advice on the delegated powers contained in the Bill that a requirement to lay the guidance before the Assembly should be included in clause 17. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 4 inserts a new clause, which is titled "Guidance on data collection".”
“The Committee therefore agreed to propose an amendment to build on the current provisions and to require the Department to cover in the guidance the effect of the Bill and such other matters that it considers appropriate to the criminal law and procedure relating to stalking in Northern Ireland. The Department was of the view that no further purpose would be served by amending clause 17 in the way suggested by the Committee but said that the Minister was happy to give a ministerial commitment. Following agreement by the Committee to propose an amendment, the Minister advised that she would table it as part of the Department's amendments to clause 17. The Committee welcomed that approach and is pleased to support amendment Nos 1 and 2.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee considers the provision of guidance on the new stalking offence, the SPOs and the interim SPOs to be essential for the consistent and robust implementation of the legislation. There has been a lack of knowledge and understanding of stalking behaviour in the criminal justice agencies, and the new offence is a course of conduct offence that is similar to the domestic abuse offence, which is still a relatively new concept. <BR /> <BR />Given that the Department intends to cover the stalking offences in the guidance anyway, the Committee was of the view that it would be more appropriate to amend clause 17 to reflect that and to provide certainty, clarity and transparency.”
“It agreed with the view expressed by the PSNI that such detailed guidance from the Department would be essential for the successful implementation of the legislation. We need to ensure that there are no loopholes that anyone can take advantage of. Under the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act, the Department is required to issue guidance on the domestic abuse offence or on any other matters of criminal law and procedure that relate to domestic abuse. The Committee agreed that it wanted clause 17 to be widened to build on the obligation to issue guidance about the exercise of the Chief Constable's functions relating to stalking protection orders and interim orders to reflect the intention of the Department to cover the stalking offence as well.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 1, 2 and 3 to clause 17 provide for the Department to issue and publish guidance to the Chief Constable on stalking protection orders and interim orders. When the Committee asked whether the Department also intended to cover the new offence in guidance and provide that to a wider audience, officials indicated that the Department would include a section on the stalking offence that would be published and made available to all the criminal justice agencies, non-government organisations and voluntary organisations. The Committee believes in the importance of guidance being available for the new offence, similar to that provided for the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act.”