Mervyn Storey
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It will be noted that there are those who cry much about the environment and purport to be the champions of the environment who did not have the courtesy to come to the House and be present when the statement was being made.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Clearly, there are some in the House who want to continue with the same old, same old and get the same outcomes at a huge cost to the public purse and to farms in Northern Ireland. The Minister is absolutely right: it is a scourge.”
“I am sure that the Minister will be aware, having listened to the Member who spoke before me, that the farmers of North Antrim will make an informed choice about who best supported farmers during this mandate of the Assembly.”
“A pilot scheme has been operating with the Education Authority, the PSNI and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust across 60 schools in the south Down area since September 2021 and was extended to a further 77 schools in the Newry and south Armagh areas at the start of February 2022.”
“As Chair of the Justice Committee, I am pleased to welcome the motion. It implements the provisions taken forward by the Committee in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 to establish an Operation Encompass model in Northern Ireland, which is, as the Minister has outlined, a police and early intervention pa…”
“We had our final meeting of that Committee this morning, and I want to place on the public record our appreciation and thanks to our Committee staff of for all the work that they have done.”
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“In the House, we often use phrases and terminology, but that sometimes fails to relate into practice beyond the confines of the Chamber. Following on from yesterday's debate, the collective challenge to Ministers, the Executive and the Assembly is to ensure not only by word but by deed that we demonstrate the value that, we believe, the voluntary and community sector delivers in our society.”
“As Minister, I fully recognise the role of the voluntary and community sector in delivering so many necessary public services on behalf of government and the impact that reduced resourcing can have on those vital services. I also fully recognise the significant contribution made by the VCS to economic and social activity in Northern Ireland. Like all Departments, my Department is a signatory to the concordat between the voluntary and community sector and the Northern Ireland Government, and successful implementation of that agreement requires real and recognisable commitment across the public sector. <BR /> <BR />The Member will be aware that, no later than yesterday, we had a debate in the House on the issue.”
“As Minister for Social Development with lead responsibility for relationships with the voluntary and community sector (VCS), I am fully aware of the funding pressures faced by the sector. The voluntary and community sector is seen as a key social partner of government as we build a participative, peaceful, equitable and inclusive community in Northern Ireland. As you are aware, the strain on public finances in 2015-16 has been considerable, and that has impacted on the financial relationship between government and the sector. When finalising the budget for my Department, I instructed my officials to ensure that resource allocation decisions being made across the Department were prioritised, transparent, accountable and evidence-based.”
“That should focus the mind and the attention of every Member in the House so that we find a solution to the problem, which has been around for far too long.”
“Let us be under no illusion, and let us not try to paint a narrative in the House today that there is a bit of smoke and mirrors and that something is happening that is being choreographed and that something else is happening in the shadows of other buildings beyond the confines of the Chamber. Let me spell it out very clearly and plainly: at the Business Committee today, I tabled my intention to bring back the Welfare Reform Bill for Final Stage next Tuesday, and, if it falls, that will have serious repercussions for Northern Ireland, for the people of Northern Ireland and, I believe, for the long-term sustainability and the future of the institutions that we are engaged in. Let us not be under any illusion: we are at a very serious juncture, we have run out of road, and we will very soon run out of money.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary. As we know, the welfare Bill did not complete its legislative passage through the Assembly as scheduled on 9 March. The further delay in the Bill receiving Royal Assent meant that the work needed to prepare for implementation of the changes had to be brought to a conclusion. For me and for many, the continuing delay has been frustrating, not only for those involved in delivering social security or even for those who advise claimants on their rights but, more importantly, for the thousands of people across Northern Ireland who are becoming totally confused about what changes will be brought in by the Bill and how those changes will impact on them.”
“The Member is absolutely right about the intransigence and the lack of decision on the issue. I will probably have more to say about that as we make our way through Question Time. On the anticipated timescale, I trust that, when we have the completion of the welfare Bill as far as the processes in the House are concerned, we can start immediately to engage in the work set out in the substantive answer that we have given. I trust that, over a period of months, we will see progress on the pilot. I will ensure that, subject to what happens in the House next Tuesday, the Member is kept informed.”
“As the welfare Bill did not complete its legislative passage through the Assembly on 9 March, the work needed to prepare for implementing the changes, including the personal independence payment pilot, has had to be stopped.”
“That has included mapping the process by which potential participants in the pilot could be identified; discussions with DWP about the early deployment of the personal independence payment IT system; and engagement with Capita business services, which will provide the personal independence payment assessment service, and other key stakeholders to ensure a successful and meaningful personal independence payment pilot. <BR /> <BR />Given that the key purpose of the pilot was to help to inform plans for personal independence payment roll-out in Northern Ireland, the actual commencement of the pilot was always linked to establishing a definitive date on which personal independence payments would be introduced.”
“Following the Stormont Castle agreement on welfare reform in December 2014, an amendment was tabled to the Northern Ireland welfare Bill that made provision for a pilot scheme to be carried out in advance of personal independence payments going live in Northern Ireland. It was passed by the Assembly at Consideration Stage of the Bill's passage, and, since then, my officials have been working to put in place the arrangements to implement that commitment.”
“Here is the point that I have found difficult when listening to the debate: it seemed as though it is an issue for everybody, as long as it was not their Minister's issue. Is the Member saying that every Member, irrespective of party affiliation, should collectively say that every Minister has to sign up to and deliver on the concordat and ensure that we do something across the piece? Is that what the Member is saying? I know that the Member who proposed the motion tried to ensure that that was the case, but let us have clarity around the issue.”
“— we are in a far bigger financial crisis.”
“— and talk about vulnerable communities when I realise that, because people have not fulfilled —”
“That is why, as Minister for Social Development with responsibility for welfare reform, I find it difficult to stand in front of this desk today —”
“It was interesting that one Member opposite did not want to take any interventions; that was because it was clearly an attack on the Government at Westminster and the cuts that are going to come. There will be reduced moneys in the future. We have to find a way to manage that.”
“We always have this issue in relation to budgets and the mechanisms that we use. It has been discussed in the House a number of times. We have embarked on the overview. Given that NICVA raised the issue with OFMDFM and it was raised at the Executive, I subsequently met representatives from NICVA, and I will continue to have that engagement with OFMDFM junior Ministers. All those issues need to be looked at. <BR /> <BR />I also want to raise the issue that I raised without prejudice in correspondence with OFMDFM: the possibility of developing some form of transition assistance for the voluntary and community sector as it adapts to transformed funding arrangements. Here is where we have to be honest. It has been raised for different reasons.”
“After recent discussions with voluntary and community representatives, I wrote to OFMDFM to offer my Department's assistance to the overview being undertaken by OFMDFM junior Ministers on budget decisions across Departments.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to bring the House up to date in relation to the fact that the joint forum held a single-issue meeting on Friday past that focused on the cuts to the sector. To ensure that my Department is clearly sighted on the issues being raised by the sector representatives, I asked senior officials from the Department to attend and hear at first hand the detail being raised. The concordat will be successful with real commitment across the public and voluntary and community sectors. I would like to underline the importance of Departments complying with the values and principles. <BR /> <BR />Let me move on to the discussions with the First Minister and deputy First Minister.”
“I feel confident that the approach followed by my Department in the 2015-16 Budget allocation process was consistent with the values and principles contained in the concordat. <BR /> <BR />From the motion, and the debate that has taken place on it, I believe that there is a clear recognition of the need for closer collaboration in our partnership working. We need to ensure that unintended consequences resulting from our decision-making processes are minimised. My colleague Sammy Wilson referred to the impact we have seen in relation to DRD and community transport, for example. We have all been lobbied on that issue because of the serious consequences it has across a whole raft of other elements of government services, particularly in rural communities.”
“However, I think that all Ministers and Departments would do well to revisit the concordat to see how they have engaged in its delivery. <BR /> <BR />The concordat very clearly and transparently lays the foundation for partnership working. The joint forum, with membership drawn from the voluntary and community sector and the public sector, provides structured and managed opportunities for increased collaborative working and joined-up action in areas of mutual interest such as outcomes-focused funding, addressing excessive bureaucracy, procurement, policy development and development of best practice. Surely, those are the areas that organisations want us to be engaged in and the discussions they want us to be involved in. As we have said, all Departments, including my own, are signatories to the concordat.”
“That has been discussed along with a number of issues. I am going to come on to the discussions I have been engaged in with my ministerial colleagues in the Executive in a minute. <BR /> <BR />I am conscious of time, but I want to come to the issue of the concordat. It has been referred to, and I just want to make sure that Members know what it is. Here we have a copy of it. We can let everybody see that all Ministers signed up to a process and a concordat. I consider that the concordat between the Northern Ireland Government and the voluntary and community sector is the formal shared vision of the partnership and reflects the commitment to work in partnership in building a participative, peaceful, equitable and inclusive community.”
“Coming back to the issue of relationships between the Government and the voluntary and community sector, I strongly believe that the Government are working with the voluntary and community sector in partnership. We will strengthen that relationship as we move forward on managing these issues.”
“We were in very difficult circumstances where we made decisions knowing that we had lost a considerable amount of our starting point in the allocation of our budget in the first place.”
“<BR /> <BR />Before I turn to the issue of relationships between government and the voluntary and community sector, I want to reiterate the process that I use in my Department. For the first time, I have come to look at the issue of how a Minister deals with the point that was made by my colleague, Sammy Wilson. We are enveloped by a considerable number of officials who come to us, day and daily, with a raft of issues, and it would be very easy to take the normal trend of those briefings. However, I ensured that we not only looked at my budget priorities and at all the issues of accountability, but, looking at some of the budget streams in particular, we ensured that we cross-referenced them with other offices in the Department to ensure that we had done the best possible task that we could.”
“It would be untrue to maintain a position that the strain on public finances in 2015-16 has not had a significant impact on the financial relationships between government and the sector. With that in mind, I instructed my officials to ensure that, where possible, during the Budget allocation process, resource allocations across the Department would be prioritised, transparent, accountable and evidence-based. The outworking of this has meant that, in determining the 2015-16 Budget allocation, my Department sought to minimise the impact on the wider voluntary and community sector by prioritising, as far as possible, funding to support the sustainability of the sector and to maintain support for key services such as generalist advice services, neighbourhood renewal, Supporting People, volunteering and childcare.”
“That is the case. I wish, however, that when Ministers make those decisions they would always be consistent in the outworking of the results of their decisions. The Hansard report of this debate will be made available to my ministerial colleagues. As I will explain in a moment or two, I am committed to ensuring that the Executive give due diligence and attention to the issue. <BR /> <BR />During my time in office I have met voluntary and community sector representatives regularly to discuss the implications of Budget cuts to the sector. I heard their concerns first-hand when I attended the February joint forum meeting between government and the voluntary and community sector.”
“As Chairperson of the Committee for Employment and Learning, the proposer of the motion will know about that project. The reality is that the cost of the service that will now have to be picked up by the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety and others is more than what is currently being provided for by that organisation. That raises serious issues for us all when we talk about prudence and best value for money.”
“I remain committed, as does my Department, to working closely with the sector as it provides support to the most vulnerable in society and ensures continued access to much-needed services. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the representatives of NICVA in the Public Gallery. They know that this is something that I have said to them and to many organisations that I have met as a Member and since becoming Minister. There is a challenge for the Executive: if the organisations that are in real financial difficulties go out of existence, who picks up the services that were delivered by those organisations? <BR /> <BR />I spent some time in Ballycastle in my constituency just last week and saw first-hand the work of the Greenlight Gateway project.”
“I think that that is also emerging out of these recent days, but that is also the aim and objective of many of the organisations in the community and voluntary sector. Where changes can be made and where effective collaboration can be brought forward, I believe that the voluntary and community sector has proved in the past, and will continue to prove in the future, that it is more than capable of being able to address that issue. However, when it is faced with a funding crisis, it makes it much more difficult for the sector to be able to progress other issues that it would like to.”
“It is also based on my responsibility as lead Minister for relationships between government and the voluntary and community sector. I am sure that you will understand that I am unable to respond and provide any information on allocation policies and processes followed by other Departments, but I will come back to that point as I continue, following on from some correspondence that we recently forwarded to OFMDFM. <BR /> <BR />As Minister for Social Development, I fully recognise the significant contribution that the voluntary and community sector makes to civic society in Northern Ireland. I want to see a strong, vibrant, enterprising and sustainable sector within the community.”
“We can look at many organisations, and reference has been made to issues in early years and with community transport. I know of issues from my constituency, with organisations like Can Can Recycling in Ballymoney and the Greenlight Gateway project, and other matters around community transport. Another issue that has been raised with me in recent days, which is being pursued by the Education Minister, is that of the long-term future of the Youth Council and its voluntary activities. That raises serious concerns about the whole issue of volunteering, which is something that we all value and we all see the huge benefits to society that flow from it. <BR /> <BR />My response today will primarily draw on the experience of my Department during the 2015-16 Budget and the decision-making processes that we followed.”
“I thank the Members for tabling the motion. I listened with interest to all the contributions, and I want to set out a number of issues that are, for me, key as I respond to the debate. In doing so, I want to set out my vision of the relationship between my Department and the voluntary and community sector; the approach that we had to the 2015-16 Budget round; the relationship between government in Northern Ireland and the community and voluntary sector; and, I think most importantly, how we might best move forward. <BR /> <BR />I take the point made by a number of contributors: that those who watch the debate today will not really be interested in the platitudes and words about commending everybody but in how we will address a very serious situation.”
“You are as knowledgeable as the Minister, then.”
“My concentration and focus will continue to be on working with the Committee, its members and the House so that, in fulfilling my statutory role, which includes responsibility for the Housing Executive, we continue to ensure that we give the best possible service to the people of Northern Ireland who live in Housing Executive properties. I therefore conclude by saying that I trust that the issue has now come to an end. I look forward to working with the Social Development Committee on the many issues that are of relevance to its day-to-day business.”
“Let me refer to some of the issues that were raised. In particular, I refer to the allegations made against my colleague and friend, the former Minister Mr Nelson McCausland. If anyone has evidence of any impropriety, wrongdoing or misappropriation, it is surely their duty to bring it forward. I concur with what my colleague said in the House today, which is that what we have seen is something lacking in substance and surely in any great evidence. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, I remind Members that, when I took up my responsibility as Minister for Social Development, I came into the Department at a time when the inquiry was in full flow.”
“There are many issues that the House could today have been adequately dealing with. We could have been debating the issues that fall within my Department's remit. The Social Development Committee, which was established to advise and assist on matters within my responsibility as Minister, would do well to continue to be engaged on those issues. <BR /> <BR />Let me turn to the Committee report. I received the full report with appendices on Tuesday 6 May and considered initially the Committee's conclusions and observations. However, as the report, as some Members have reminded us, runs to over 1,100 pages, I have decided that it is more appropriate for me to initially respond to this debate, and then I will undertake to provide a full written response to the Committee within eight weeks.”
“<BR /> <BR />Following that debate and until today, the Social Development Committee has been conducting its inquiry in three phases resulting in three reports, the third of which has now been published and which we are debating today. When I came into office in September last year, I was well aware of the inquiry and the significant time and effort that was being spent on it by Committee members and my departmental officials. I am therefore glad that we are, at least, coming to this stage in the final debate on the outcome of the inquiry. As Minister for Social Development, I would now like to be able to concentrate on the priorities and responsibilities of my portfolio and on ensuring that I discharge my responsibilities, which are encapsulated in the business plan for my Department, to improve people's lives.”
“In listening to the debate today and to Members' contributions in relation to the conclusions and recommendations contained in the Social Development Committee's phase 3 report, I well recall being in the Chamber almost two years ago, on Monday 8 July 2013, when the debate was very similar to that of today. On that occasion, the Assembly met for the purposes of debating a motion that expressed concern at the contents of the investigation by the BBC 'Spotlight' programme that was broadcast on 3 July 2013 and referred to allegations of serious and wrongful political interference in the Housing Executive. What has happened in the intervening two-year period? I ask Members to reflect on that issue. It was two years: what have we to show for it?”
“<BR /> <BR />I conclude by thanking all involved. This is an important Bill, which will help to safeguard the pensions system in Northern Ireland in the coming decades. Once again, I place on record my gratitude to the Chair, the Committee for Social Development and Members across the Assembly for their contribution to the progress of the Bill.”
“If it is not right and fair, my party will oppose it, and that applies to carers. <BR /> <BR />Mr Dickson mentioned National Insurance requirements. As working lives grow longer, the 50-year-plus will soon be the norm, and the 35-year requirement for a full pension should be attainable. Those issues continue to be of interest to us. <BR /> <BR />I remind everyone of the daily contribution that is made through the provision of pensions in Northern Ireland. In Northern Ireland in 2012-13, we paid out almost £37 million every week in state pensions, so it is obviously an important issue. When we discuss the important issue of welfare and the annual £4·4 billion that comes into Northern Ireland for that, we should remember that over half of it is provided to our pension system. That sets the issue in context.”
“The lesson that we all learned from the election is to be careful about speculation. We had all sorts of speculation and all sorts of people telling us who were going to be the winners, and we saw who were the losers. We saw pundits put fairly and squarely in their place. Despite all their attempts to tell us what the outcome of the election was going to be, it was a different outcome. <BR /> <BR />However, the Member raises a serious point. My party has made it abundantly clear that, through representation in the House of Commons, and by joining with his colleagues there, we will do everything in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland. My colleague Jeffrey Donaldson also made the position on carers clear at the weekend. This party will ensure that we have effective implementation of what is right and fair.”
“There have been interesting outcomes on many fronts, but Mr Beggs brought us back to the reality of where we are with welfare reform. There are those who would like to bury their head in the sand and ignore the fact that there was an agreement made at Stormont House. Then there are those who think that welfare reform is something that we can just wish away. The reality for us all is that that cannot be the case. There will have to be serious engagement and decisions made in a very short period so that we can, if possible, move the issue forward.”
“We sometimes have a habit of dismissing an issue when it is raised by Members or an organisation. I genuinely want to try to address such concerns. Hopefully, the new pension system will be simpler and easier to understand. I trust that the work being carried out on the Committee's recommendation will bear fruit and produce something of value. <BR /> <BR />Dolores Kelly referred to carers. Again, my Department will take forward the Committee's recommendation. Like many Members, I know the important and invaluable contribution that carers make to our society. No one in the House should underestimate that important role, which they play day and daily. <BR /> <BR />Mr Beggs brought us back to reality. Yes, as some mentioned, and, I suppose, we could not not mention, we have had a general election.”
“My colleague Paula Bradley spoke about the bereavement support payment and cohabiting couples. My Department is taking forward the Committee's recommendations on carers and bereavements, and that will hopefully help to allay the Member's concerns, which I share. Whether it is on the issue of housing, welfare reform or pensions, Members have heard me say that we need to remember that, when we come to the House, we are dealing with people's lives. We perhaps want circumstances to be different in our communities and society, but we have to face the realities and deal with the circumstances as they are. <BR /> <BR />If there is one thing that I want to address in my time as a Minister, it is to have that concern displayed in the way in which we address particular issues.”
“I reiterate what I said about the Social Development Committee's recommendations, which is that we will take those forward. That is important because concerns were raised. It is only right that we give due consideration to the recommendations in a proper and timely way, and that is why I was very content to work towards their implementation.”
“I thank Members for their contributions. I concur with the comments made by the Chair of the Social Development Committee about the work that was carried out. I think that the tone of this debate, on the work between my Department and the Committee, has probably been better than the tone of tomorrow's debate will be. However, the legislation is a good example of what is achievable between a Department and a scrutiny Committee of the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />I also want to place on record my appreciation of the Bill team in my Department. I assure you that I depend on them extensively because they are the experts in this field. I place on record my appreciation of the work that Gerry, his team and all involved have done. I look forward to doing that over the next number of months. <BR /> <BR />I turn to some of the comments made by Members.”
“I think that the consensus is that we cannot leave a legacy of unsustainable pension costs to be picked up by the younger generation. <BR /> <BR />I trust that Members are content with the broad thrust of the Bill. I thank the Chairman of the Committee for Social Development. I know that it carried out a detailed and thorough scrutiny of the Bill. The Committee has made four recommendations, and I am pleased to say that I have accepted them all and my Department will take them forward. I place on record my thanks to the Committee and other Assembly Members for the positive manner in which they considered this important Bill. I commend the Bill to the House.”
“For example, the Bill extends powers to set minimum quality requirements for workplace pension schemes and to limit or prohibit charges to ensure such schemes are well governed and administered. It provides for the automatic transfer of small occupational pension pots when a person changes employer, which will reduce the number of dormant pots, making it easier for people to track their pensions savings and help them to plan better for retirement and secure a better income in retirement. <BR /> <BR />To conclude, the current pension system is widely accepted as being too complex. The proposed new scheme is simpler and more transparent. As I said earlier, ideally, none of us would want to increase state pension age. However, pensions and benefits must be sustainable and fair across the generations.”
“It will be paid as a lump sum with monthly instalments. The values and payment details will be set out in regulations; however, indicative values are in the region of £4,300, comprising a £2,500 lump sum and £150 in monthly instalments for one year for recipients without dependent children, and £9,800, with a £5,000 lump sum and £400 in monthly instalments for one year for those with dependants. Longer-term support will be provided through other benefits as appropriate. <BR /> <BR />A number of measures in the Bill relate to private and workplace pension schemes, the majority of which strengthen existing legislation in respect of regulation and automatic enrolment.”
“<BR /> <BR />Part 5 introduces the bereavement support payment to replace existing bereavement benefits for new claimants. Bereavement support payment will simplify the payment system, by moving to a more uniform structure, and the contribution conditions, with the introduction of a single rule. The intention is that support will focus on the period immediately after bereavement; aid the process of readjustment; and support those without employment to return to work. <BR /> <BR />Bereavement support payment will provide additional upfront help in the year after bereavement when it is needed most; will be available to childless people under 45 who would not have been entitled to bereavement allowance or widowed parent’s allowance; and will be disregarded from capital and income calculations for entitlement to other benefits.”