Mervyn Storey
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It will be noted that there are those who cry much about the environment and purport to be the champions of the environment who did not have the courtesy to come to the House and be present when the statement was being made.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Clearly, there are some in the House who want to continue with the same old, same old and get the same outcomes at a huge cost to the public purse and to farms in Northern Ireland. The Minister is absolutely right: it is a scourge.”
“I am sure that the Minister will be aware, having listened to the Member who spoke before me, that the farmers of North Antrim will make an informed choice about who best supported farmers during this mandate of the Assembly.”
“A pilot scheme has been operating with the Education Authority, the PSNI and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust across 60 schools in the south Down area since September 2021 and was extended to a further 77 schools in the Newry and south Armagh areas at the start of February 2022.”
“As Chair of the Justice Committee, I am pleased to welcome the motion. It implements the provisions taken forward by the Committee in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 to establish an Operation Encompass model in Northern Ireland, which is, as the Minister has outlined, a police and early intervention pa…”
“We had our final meeting of that Committee this morning, and I want to place on the public record our appreciation and thanks to our Committee staff of for all the work that they have done.”
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“I accept the point that the Member is making, but will he accept that what happened subsequent to the introduction of his Act was that the party opposite found other ways in which to employ the same people, via another vehicle? Should consideration be given to that issue so that, if one door is closed, another opportunity is not opened up for the party to do something else?”
“<BR /> <BR />My point to the Member is this: RHI was a convenient cover, because ultimately Sinn Féin had made a decision in Connolly House to bring these institutions down. The context of RHI was that Sinn Féin had a bad day at the polls, it was getting grief from its own community about not "putting it up" to the DUP, and a host of other things. It was a convenient issue for Sinn Féin, which it was complicit in. It was asleep at the wheel in holding this institution to account. Therefore, they cannot just put all the blame on one particular party in this House.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will he also accept from me that we have had all this talk from the party opposite over the last number of days — I am glad that the Member is in the House — about "moral corruption"? It really does beggar belief that he had the audacity to say that, as he comes from a party whose history is littered with the victims of a terrorist campaign. I have known the Member long enough, and I have worked with the Member, and I was extremely disappointed in the comments that he made. He has not yet been big enough to apologise for the disgraceful comments that he made. If I had made those comments, despite the current crisis, those Benches would have been filled with Members calling for my resignation.”
“The Member may or may not be able to provide clarity, or maybe Mr Allister could supply it to me, but what is the legal position with regard to a statutory requirement for either an eight- or 12-week consultation period? Is there any requirement in statute on that, or is it solely at the discretion of the House?”
“The Economy Minister made a comment in relation to fiscal stimulus, and obviously there has been a lot of talk about a rates holiday. I notice that chambers of commerce wrote to the First Minister and deputy First Minister today. The issue that is perplexing many businesses in Northern Ireland is not that we are waiting for some medical diagnosis to determine what our response will be; they know now the challenge financially that they will face. What will the Minister do about rates relief or a rates holiday so that businesses today will have some certainty about how they will deal with this crisis?”
“Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker, given that the Member in question is the Chief Whip of a political party in the House, will you take the matter to the group responsible for meetings of the Assembly, which you chair on and on which the Chief Whips sit? He is more than a Member of the House. He is someone who gives leadership through the structures of the House. Therefore, it is imperative that his conduct and his words be taken into account.”
“The Minister will be aware that, today, the Audit Office referred to an additional pressure of £500 million for injury-on-duty payments in relation to pensions. That comes on the back of the Scoffield report, which was in the hands of the then Justice Minister, David Ford. Unfortunately, it seems as though its recommendations have not been enacted in the way that they should have been. Therefore, there is still a pressure of £500 million. When all that is put together with the existing pressures that are faced by the Police Service of Northern Ireland, how does the Minister see the Executive prioritising that, given the fact that the 'New Decade, New Approach' document actually states that we "will" — it is not aspirational or less than woolly, as some other parts of the document are — increase the number to 7,500?”
“Given the concerns in many parts of the public sector about mental health, will the Minister ensure that the issue is given priority? The Minister mentioned reasonable adjustment: will that be centred on the needs of the individual rather than the needs of the organisation?”
“I thank the Member for bringing forward the motion and his comments thus far. He referred to the appropriate level. Wild statements about our education system being broken were made in the previous debate. Everything has to be the extreme in this place. Does he accept that integral to ensuring the best outcome for our pupils and young people is that the education process, rather than what is the case in some places, where it does not start until six or seven, starts at the earliest possible age? Childcare provision and early learning is all integral to ensuring the best outcome for our young people.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She comes to the heart of the issue. There is no segregation in special schools. We do not have maintained special schools, controlled special schools or Irish-medium special schools: we have special schools. Of course, there are reasons why some sectors do not want to have to pay the burden for special schools. Does the Member accept that 50% of the schools in the integrated movement, which is now a sector the same as the rest, are not integrated? The majority of those who go are from one community, and, of course, they get round the tables by getting people to tick the "Other" box. There is a lot of very inventive accounting going on, and it needs to come to an end.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. In the event of a report that said that a single education system would include Irish-medium, integrated, maintained, controlled and whatever other system, would the Member and the party opposite accept that as a single education system for Northern Ireland?”
“I appreciate the comments of the two Members who have spoken. Can he explain to the House how celebrating difference is reflected in the Catholic certificate, which excludes certain other people from applying for jobs in certain schools in Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He has made a very valid point. The difficulty is that, sometimes, there is little coordination or crossover between those organisations, whether it is call provision or domiciliary care. That cross-departmental working would be very valuable.”
“That is just one example, and it is in line with what my colleague Mr McCann said about the types of the initiatives that we can have here in Northern Ireland, and those initiatives ought to be explored. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, we should be ambitious and flexible in the protections that we afford to our older generation. Crime against older people is abhorrent, and those responsible should be held to account and put where they rightly belong: behind bars. This motion and the recommendations that it endorses can help to give older victims the confidence, capacity and procedural support to make that possible. I therefore commend the motion.”
“I thank my colleague for making that important intervention and observation. It is not just about the individual. While that has to be at the centre of what we do, it is also about the sense of fear that then permeates the community. Again, it comes back to Mr McCann's comments that there are many other organisations there to help, to support and to give advice and reassurance to our older people. <BR /> <BR />That is why we should be innovative and outward-looking in our approach to solutions. In September 2018, the all-party parliamentary group on financial crime and scamming launched an inquiry into the impact of fraud and scams on vulnerable people. It is recommended that the Government build on the success of projects like the call-blocking pilot for people with dementia to address the vulnerability of older people to scammers.”
“I thank the Member, and I appreciate his long involvement in his constituency in relation to knowing what his constituents' needs are. In a city setting, those particular needs are more acute. I am not saying that that is exclusively the case, because, obviously, when you move into rural areas, you have other needs, pressures and issues. He is absolutely right. That brings us back to the motive and drive of the motion, which is about us collectively trying to see how we can ensure that we make life better for our older people. I pay tribute to many of those organisations.”
“The recommendations range from the reintroduction of specific crime-rate targets and a review of existing court infrastructure to the creation of specific older people policy guidance for those working in the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) and the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS). We in the House, including the Minister of Justice, should have no hesitation in endorsing them in full and, I trust, without delay. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I say that that would be only the first step.”
“Thirdly, local fraud and cybercrime statistics reported by Action Fraud, the national fraud and cybercrime reporting centre, are not broken down by age of complainant. There is therefore a significant gap in the analysis of the threat posed to older people by that form of crime. Fourthly, the devil may well be in the detail that is not available. There may be under-reporting owing to a lack of dedicated support for collecting evidence from vulnerable older people, barriers to witness testimony and other pressures caused by the criminal justice system. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, the Commissioner for Older People's recommendations are themes that are reflected clearly in the 24 crime and justice recommendations set out in the Commissioner for Older People's May 2019 report, 'The Experience of Older People in Northern Ireland'.”
“No one can begin to imagine the horrendous outcome for our older people when they are attacked in such a vicious and cowardly way. <BR /> <BR />There are gaps in dealing with the issue. Taken at face value, the figures may not seem to be that high, but the interpretation loses sight of several key factors. First, the rate of crime against older people in Northern Ireland has remained consistent in the past decade, despite a reduction in traditional forms of crime. Secondly, outcome rates for crimes against older persons lag roughly 2% behind outcome rates for crimes against other age groups. That is despite evidence that specific crime-rate targets for the elderly, which are not currently used, have led to a narrowing of the gap from previous years.”
“Members expressed a concern that the criminal justice element can sometimes be overemphasised. You cannot be exclusive: it has to be a combination of both law and order and criminal justice rather than either/or. <BR /> <BR />We want to focus on how we can take that cross-departmental approach, and that means that we have to face up to the stark reality of the crimes that are being committed against older people. I declare an interest as a member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board. The figures released by the Police Service of Northern Ireland show that, in 2018-19, 6% of crime victims were aged over 65; there were 14 victims aged over 65 per 1,000 of the population; and 80% of crimes recorded against older people related to theft and criminal damage, while 16% related to violence against the person.”
“We therefore need dedicated action to place the needs of older people at the heart of crime prevention and crime response in Northern Ireland. It is about future-proofing our crime strategy to protect the most vulnerable. <BR /> <BR />The Office for National Statistics (ONS) reports that almost 50% of over-75s live with a disability, whilst the Department for Communities estimates that around 15% of people aged over 65 in Northern Ireland live in relative poverty. Although today's motion deals primarily with the law-and-order response to crime against older people, a cross-departmental approach is needed to address the underlying risks to our ageing population in the future. That follows on from some of the comments that were made in the House last night.”
“The Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency projected that, by 2041, almost one in four people living in the UK will be over 65. Of course, some of us are heading towards that age group; maybe I should have declared an interest before speaking.”
“I thank the Minister of Justice for being in the House this morning. We, as individuals and parties, can all unite around the inspirational contribution of older people living and working across Northern Ireland. Whether it is volunteering, caring, employment or childcare, the roles played by this constituent group are essential to the functioning of our society. Therefore, we, as elected representatives, have a responsibility to give older people the confidence and capacity to live enjoyable, enriched and independent lives. However, the first step must be to secure their safety in the community in which they live and in their homes. This will be even more crucial in the coming years as people continue to live longer. <BR /> <BR />Over 430,000 older people live in Northern Ireland.”
“If we are going to have a twin-track approach and if we are going to tell the police, when will we have the truth about what everybody was involved in so that those who feed off our society have no justification for looking up to some people as though they were local heroes?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I have listened to his comments on talking to the police. I find that interesting, given that he did not come very clean about his actions in 1986. He went to jail, obviously, for his part. Equally or more worrying is a comment in the book that has been published by Mr Kelly, in which Mr Adams says, about telling the truth:”
“— so that it cannot be used as a football to determine who pays the bill, rather than ensure that those who need help will get the help that they rightfully deserve.”
“It has seen very good outcomes; it has resulted in a reduction in referrals to emergency departments from Musgrave station of some 42%. I have written to the Health Minister to ensure that funding is in place —”
“Let us not forget that violent and sexual offences are becoming more prevalent. Victims of those crimes will not be comforted by the Minister saying to us this evening that we are better than the rest of the United Kingdom. Although that is the case — the figures indicate that that is so — it gives no comfort to female victims in particular, because crimes against females are becoming more harmful; they account for almost 49% of all violence-against-the-person offences. My colleague gave the figures for those particular crimes. <BR /> <BR />We could go down those lists of figures, but it is also important to highlight an issue that came to the Policing Board just a few weeks ago: the pathfinder initiative on custody nurse practitioners (CNPs) in Musgrave Street police station.”
“The sad reality is that, when we come to debates like this and others, we use statistics, but, as has often been said — we have been given examples in the House this evening — behind all of those figures are individuals, families and communities who have been destroyed because of those activities. We need to ensure that we do not forget that.”
“I thank the Minister. This is the place to have that debate. I look forward to seeing what she brings forward. We can all come to the House, make comments on Twitter and try to salve our consciences by saying that we have done our best for the people that we claim to represent, but the test will be the legislation that we can enact and that can be effective in dealing with those who want to break the law and destroy lives. <BR /> <BR />I concur with my colleague who moved amendment No 1, the Chair of the Committee for Justice. He gave us the statistics.”
“Therefore, I am somewhat disappointed in the Minister and the approach that she has taken, even though the previous Minister indicated that her review, which is now complete, gave us a raft of sentencing that needs to be addressed so that we have a judicial system and a sentencing regime that is fit for purpose and, more importantly, fits the crimes of those who have destroyed lives.”
“The issue of collaboration was there. <BR /> <BR />While I welcome the fact that the Minister is here, it is disappointing that nowhere throughout her comments did she make any reference to the amendments or what her view would be. I trust that that does not send out a signal to those who are a blight on our society, whether they are criminals who go under the guise of paramilitaries — we will come to that shortly — or just thugs who are determined to destroy communities and destroy people's lives, that, somehow, there is no place for the criminal justice system. I want to see those who break the law pay the price for doing so. A society that does not have that approach will, in a way, become diverted from actually seeing those who are responsible being brought to justice.”
“I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate as we conclude on the issues that have been raised. Rather than rehearse all the issues that Members have raised, I will make a few comments on what has brought us to this point. Obviously, we are disappointed that the proposer of the motion will not accept our amendment and that, when Mr Blair was making his remarks, he did not refer to the last part of our amendment, which calls on the Minister of Justice:”
“I have listened with interest to what the Member has said. Sometimes, in these debates, we focus on context. Let us remember that violent crime is carried out by some people from affluent parts of society, and they have access to money and to other individuals. So while I concur with many of the comments that the Member has made, he cannot just say that, if we solved socio-economic issues, we would eradicate crime from our society.”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the House to give his statement. He referred to food standards. Before I comment on that, I welcome his comments on the fact that, through a democratic process, we have now left the shackles of the European Union, which decimated, as he said, our fisheries and the many other businesses that had draconian rules and regulations imposed on them. <BR /> <BR />The Member for Lagan Valley mentioned food standards and protecting the importation of foods into Northern Ireland. Can the Minister ensure that the high standards that we have in Northern Ireland will not be jeopardised by the importation of any foods that fall short of those standards?”
“If there is a genuine willingness to make these institutions work, they will work only when we have in place the proper financial framework that recognises that we cannot do it all. We cannot continue going to Whitehall with a begging bowl and looking for more. We genuinely need to trim our sails in certain ways that will mean we get the best possible outcome for the people whom we claim we are here to represent.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Gillen review report has made clear recommendations to the Department of Justice, the PSNI, the Public Prosecution Service, the Courts and Tribunals Service and other agencies about the need for transformation. If there is one report that the House needs to take seriously, it is that. We need to find all the resource at our disposal to ensure that its recommendations are implemented and that those who are exposed to the most vile and horrendous forms of abuse are given every possible protection. <BR /> <BR />A lot of what I raised requires cross-departmental help and assistance. No one Minister can address all the concerns. Some of us are sceptical as to whether the Assembly will survive and wonder when we will have the next contrived problem that allows people to walk out the door.”
“The Chief Constable has already made a request for funding for 600 new full-time officers. It is vital that the merits of that business case be recognised. Similarly, it is unacceptable that some of Northern Ireland's most skilled and experienced detectives — those who are seen as global leaders in counterterrorism — are housed in some 180 Portakabins throughout the police estate. The Chief Constable has a particular concern, because it is not all about the individual. It is also about the environment in which the individual operates. It begs the question of what message is being sent to those interested in a career in policing. We have heard a lot of debate in recent days on its importance. I trust that it is a matter that will still be of importance to Members.”
“That is the challenge for us. <BR /> <BR />That brings me back to the point about having a priority financial framework. Surely policing is a priority for us all. When we are in need, it is one of the first organisations that we will have recourse to, but the demand placed on the police to become ever more efficient and to be able to do more of what is required of them increases daily. <BR /> <BR />Some Members have a particular interest in tackling domestic violence. They have been advocates for the changes that are needed to address the issue. Sadly, domestic violence is an ever-increasing problem in our society, and the police need to be given all the resources possible to address it and many other issues. <BR /> <BR />I will conclude by raising a number of other issues.”
“I read the following comment recently in one of the reports from the police to the Policing Board:”
“I am a member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board. My colleague Mr Blair referred to some of the issues that emanate from policing in Northern Ireland. Again, this falls into the category of understanding some of the challenges. My colleague the Chair of the Justice Committee referred to the challenges earlier. There is a £32 million pressure on pensions, an £11 million one on legacy issues, and a £42 million one on Brexit, injury-while-on-duty and tackling paramilitarism. Coupled with a £54 million funding pressure for the PSNI, those pressures come with a considerably heavy price tag.”
“I see in my constituency the slow burn or slow process for getting decisions made, and that can create difficulties for a variety of reasons, so changes in that would be helpful. <BR /> <BR />I turn, Mr Speaker, to issues in the Department of Justice.”
“That was something that I, unfortunately, was not able to achieve in my time, and I would love to think that others could collectively achieve an uplift in the resource spend for Supporting People. <BR /> <BR />The Member for North Belfast also made reference to one of the problems that the system faces with planning. That is an area where we have to draw certain lines. Changes in planning should not allow everybody to build where they want to build at all costs. They need to be brought about in the planning system to allow for quicker and more expeditious planning decisions so that they do not contribute to the problems that we have seen in some of the major projects involving capital expenditure.”
“I am of the view that we need a process that deals with objective need, but we need to agree on how we determine what that objective need is and how we are going to agree the process for it. <BR /> <BR />Let me come to another area on the Budget. I would love to see progress being made in the Department for Communities on Supporting People. Supporting People has been ring-fenced for a number of years, but there has never been an uplift. It has struggled. We see organisations like the Simon Community that really are placed in a very difficult place to deliver in many of our constituencies with a reduced budget but an evergrowing demand for their services.”
“I think that the Member will also accept that it is about how we then come to determine what objective need is. The Member for Foyle can wave her hands as though this is not an issue, but this affects her constituency as well, and it is a problem. The issue is how we can have an honest discussion about objective need. I will not stand in the way of meeting the needs of anyone in any part of this country of Northern Ireland, provided that we are doing it in a way that is fair to everybody else. <BR /> <BR />We see that in how we distribute welfare reform. There was an inherent imbalance. Working families are discriminated against because there are some people who believe that their needs are greater than others. That is not fair; that is not an equitable society.”
“That is a shameful way to distribute housing. <BR /> <BR />The Member referred to discrimination, and that is the reason why the Housing Executive was established. There are some people in the House who seem to forget that discrimination worked against working-class Protestants as well. It seems as though all the ills were done against one community. I had a grandfather who did not own his own property, who did not have a vote, who did not have conacre and who did not have all those other things. The difference with my grandfather was that he never justified taking up arms or using violent means to try to change the situation. I think that is the difference that some people in the House need to remember.”
“I accept what the Member says. The difficulty is how we translate that into working together collaboratively in a way that enables other Assembly Members and I to tell our constituents that the outcome has delivered for them. The housing that I saw in parts of my constituency, in Ballymena, and in my colleague's constituency, was shameful. What I saw in West Belfast was shameful. People should not have to live in those conditions. When we change the housing environment, we change the opportunities in health, education, community cohesion and well-being for all our citizens. I urge the Minister and his party to genuinely grasp the issue of a new model for housing in Northern Ireland. Let us not have this — we will use 10 as a simple number — 10 houses for the Prods and 10 houses for the Roman Catholics.”
“I ask Members this, through the Chair, of course: does anyone know when the Housing Executive last built a new home? It has been years — over 20 years — since the Housing Executive built, because it cannot build houses. We have left it to housing associations. We have left it to others, and the deficit is shocking. I encourage the Minister to ensure that housing is prioritised in any future budgetary process.”
“As I said at the Dispatch Box when I was Minister, I want to see the people of Northern Ireland have good quality homes, not just houses. If we transform the housing stock — the 87,000 houses owned by the Housing Executive, those owned by housing associations, those in co-ownership and those in the private-rented sector — but particularly social housing through the stock that is in public ownership, we transform those communities. The Member for North Belfast has good examples from her constituency of quality homes in the private sector, quality homes provided by housing associations and quality Housing Executive stock. The problem is that we are not doing building enough homes. We are not unlocking the potential of the construction industry, which wants to build new houses.”
“There are contradictions in my position on many occasions, but at least I have enough honesty as a sinner saved by grace, as mentioned earlier, to admit when there are things that we did not get right and then to try collectively to fix them. <BR /> <BR />Housing is an issue close to my heart. I want to see the people of Northern Ireland, whether they are in Ballymena or Ballymurphy, Coleraine or Coalisland, Ballymoney or —.”