Mervyn Storey
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It will be noted that there are those who cry much about the environment and purport to be the champions of the environment who did not have the courtesy to come to the House and be present when the statement was being made.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Clearly, there are some in the House who want to continue with the same old, same old and get the same outcomes at a huge cost to the public purse and to farms in Northern Ireland. The Minister is absolutely right: it is a scourge.”
“I am sure that the Minister will be aware, having listened to the Member who spoke before me, that the farmers of North Antrim will make an informed choice about who best supported farmers during this mandate of the Assembly.”
“A pilot scheme has been operating with the Education Authority, the PSNI and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust across 60 schools in the south Down area since September 2021 and was extended to a further 77 schools in the Newry and south Armagh areas at the start of February 2022.”
“As Chair of the Justice Committee, I am pleased to welcome the motion. It implements the provisions taken forward by the Committee in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 to establish an Operation Encompass model in Northern Ireland, which is, as the Minister has outlined, a police and early intervention pa…”
“We had our final meeting of that Committee this morning, and I want to place on the public record our appreciation and thanks to our Committee staff of for all the work that they have done.”
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“I thank the Member for his question. Since 2007, EU funding totalling £676 million has been secured for the 2007-2013 Peace III and INTERREG Va programmes and the 2014-2020 Peace IV and INTERREG Va programmes, for delivery by the Special EU Programmes Body, which is the managing authority for the EU Peace and INTERREG programmes. Funding under these programmes is secured by the Northern Ireland Executive, the Irish Government and, for INTERREG, the Scottish Government. <BR /> <BR />European funding is allocated in euros, and this answer assumes an exchange rate of 1·31. That is a fluctuating situation, but I trust that that gives the context to answer the Member's question.”
“You would not bring a proposal to the Executive that was not going to try to address the issue. It is now a matter of Executive colleagues making a decision on the issue, and it will have to be determined in that way. As I said to my colleague, the matter has been put before the Executive, and I hope that, together, we can find a resolution to this long-standing problem.”
“The case was lost in court on all points, so there is no legal obligation on the Northern Ireland Civil Service to make payments to these staff. However, my predecessor, Minister Hamilton, put forward an Executive paper on the issue because he wanted to find a way to recognise the feelings of these staff and, if at all possible, to find out whether a resolution was achievable.”
“The matter has been put before Executive colleagues, and I hope that we can find a way forward together. The issue has required careful thought to provide justification for making a payment to staff when there is no legal requirement to do so. As Finance Minister, I have a clear responsibility to be careful about expenditure, particularly at a time when budgets are challenged across all Departments. <BR /> <BR />The Member asked whether there is an equal pay legal liability. It has been proven in court that there is no legal liability to these staff. As the Member will be aware, NIPSA took the legal action on behalf of the PSNI and NIO staff who were seeking to have the terms of the equal pay settlement apply to them.”
“I thank the Member for his question. This issue cannot be resolved by the Department of Finance and Personnel acting alone and will require Executive consideration. I have circulated a second version of the Executive paper to my colleagues. It is now for the Executive to consider the issue and to work together to find a clearly defined solution and budget for this matter.”
“It is difficult to give them absolute priority in the way in which the fund is established; however, in the guidance, as well as in the way in which the fund is established, the third party delivering the funding will be made aware that emphasis and serious thought needs to be given to such groups because of the financial deficits that many of them have, as a result of not having had, from their perspective, the same opportunity to access funding in the past.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I concur with the concern that he raises. We all know from our constituencies that some faith-based organisations have difficulties — rightly so, from their perspective — with accessing and utilising funds emanating from the lottery. However, I have been keen to ensure that, as an element of the process and a core component of the fund, faith-based and Church organisations and smaller community groups will be able to access it more easily and with more confidence that they will benefit.”
“I want, at all costs, organisations, particularly those that have felt on the margins of some funding regimes, to be at the centre and become beneficiaries.”
“I answered that in my response to the Member who asked the previous question. It will come down to the criteria that we establish and how the third party running the fund focuses on its delivery. It is frustrating for many organisations, and I know well from working with organisations in my constituency how challenging the funding regime can be. Various organisations have been established to assist with accessing funding. I want the community to have confidence in the fund. Let us remember: this is over £7 million. Northern Ireland has become the beneficiary of it as a result of the legislation passed in the House of Commons. I now want to see progress being made and the fund being opened.”
“The community groups and organisations in a rural setting that the Member referred to — it is not just a rural issue but one right across the piece — should have confidence in the process being fit for purpose and streamlined so that they can access the fund to benefit their community.”
“That all comes down to the way in which we structure and operate the fund. You can make a fund simple and straightforward or bureaucratic and challenging. I want the former, not the latter. As I said in answer to the original question, we have directed the Big Lottery to develop the strategic plan for the utilisation of the fund in Northern Ireland. That strategic plan will be laid before the Assembly. I trust that that will give some assurance, particularly when we see the detail of how the fund will operate, including the criteria for accessing it. I have made it clear that I want the criteria to be simple and to give us what is desired.”
“Obviously, we are in the stages of going out to appoint a third party to deliver the fund, and I want to ensure that we have given the maximum opportunity to a wide variety of organisations, some of which feel that the current access to funding streams is too bureaucratic, prohibitive and creates some difficulties for them. The Member raises a valid point, which I will give more consideration to, as we try to progress this. <BR /> <BR />Members will want to know when the fund will be up and operational. I have already had numerous correspondences, even to my constituency office, in relation to that. I trust that it will be in September/October of this year.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It is an interesting concept. One of the purposes that we want to achieve with the fund — this has caused some discussion — relates to the fact that, in most cases, funds are allocated on the basis of grants. We have tried to say that, as an incentive and as a way of getting the balance right so that we encourage the long-term sustainability of groups, we would have a combination of grants and loans. Where that would take an organisation and how it would develop over time needs to be given thought and consideration.”
“The fund will enable such organisations to make further investment in their activities, grow their organisations and become self-sustaining through the availability of finance. Access to that financial support will help to increase their revenue and resources and, I trust, enhance the level of social benefit that they deliver to their communities.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As required under the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Act 2008, my Department will now direct the Big Lottery Fund to develop a strategic plan for the utilisation of the fund in Northern Ireland. That strategic plan will be laid before the Assembly and will include details of how the fund will operate, including criteria for accessing it. <BR /> <BR />The community finance fund will provide a unique and innovative funding opportunity for social investment in Northern Ireland. It will help to improve access to finance for a range of organisations across the third sector, such as social enterprises and church and smaller community-based groups. The third sector plays a vital role in Northern Ireland, but its development and growth has been constrained by a lack of affordable finance.”
“There will certainly be a particular pressure that is always the case in relation to the financial structures that we have. As to whether the money can be used for the purposes that the Member has indicated, I want to see the money utilised in the best possible way across a wide range of services, so that — as I have said to the Member previously — we maximise and utilise this financial resource to the benefit of Northern Ireland plc.”
“We want to ensure that we can increase the amount of money that is available. In outlining the overall profile of the amount of money, I said that, this year, we will receive £113 million of FTC, compared with the £129 million that was available in 2015-16.”
“Whether it is this particular funding or other schemes that we have introduced during this mandate, the bottom line for me, as Finance Minister, is that we utilise and maximise the total amount of money that is available to Northern Ireland plc and that those funds are used to their full potential, whether it is the Department of Health, the Department with responsibility for transport or whatever. None of us wants to be in the position where the money available to us is not spent in the best possible way.”
“The Member raises a valid point about how, across the piece, we need to ensure that the various Departments are working with the same objectives and views. Obviously, FTC is ring-fenced by the Treasury and must be used to provide loan or equity investment to private sector entities. However, as I said in response to the substantive question, if there is a third party that can be utilised, that will open the opportunity to maximise that amount of money. <BR /> <BR />I am certainly keen to ensure that Departments continue to work together, not only on this issue but across the piece.”
“I look forward, as my predecessor did, to ensuring that we maximise the benefits to Northern Ireland and to the project that the Member referred to.”
“It is. The Executive have made a commitment to ensuring that we enhance the facilities of our education providers. That relates not only to capital in our schools but in our further and higher education colleges and our universities. Look at the amount of FTC that is available: the Executive will receive £113 million next year, compared with the £129 million that was available in 2015-16. Obviously, the level of financial transactions capital available to the Executive will decline over the spending review period, with some £54 million available in 2021. While there are many demands on the FTC pot, every opportunity should be taken to utilise what is a valuable resource and a valuable financial tool that has been given to us.”
“<BR /> <BR />The investment fund will be available for the Executive to deploy available financial transactions capital, and those two elements brought together should give a financial package that gives local authorities some certainty that there will be other streams of finance open to them.”
“I thank the Member. I can anticipate what he was going to ask about the investment fund. Let me address the issue about the council and the very particular issue that the Member raises. It is a concern that has been raised across a number of local authorities. There have been a number of engagements with councils on FTC funding, including the possibility of the Arc21 project availing itself of FTC. The project that the Minister — sorry, the Member; maybe that was saying things that are going to happen in the future — refers to is in that category of projects that should be seriously considered. The previous Finance Minister, Simon Hamilton, met SOLACE on that very issue in March last year. In addition, the issue of FTC was raised by council officials in a recent meeting with DFP officials on the investment plan for Europe.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Financial transactions capital (FTC) can be used only for loans to, or equity investment in, a private sector entity. Therefore, it cannot be accessed directly by councils. However, it is possible for councils to work with private sector bodies to utilise FTC. All financial transactions capital allocations require a sponsoring Department. Therefore, any organisation wising to explore the use of FTC should contact the relevant Department. Alternatively, the Strategic Investment Board will be able to assist. <BR /> <BR />Once the Northern Ireland investment fund is operational, there will be a separate process for engagement on accessing its funding.”
“Obviously, there are differing accounts of how the 2013 Act is handled. I believe that it was appropriately handled by the Department. There is nothing to be gained by going over old ground; the important thing is that Northern Ireland will have had the benefit of a thorough and independent review. My predecessor is looking forward not only to having the report but to seeing how Dr Scott's recommendations can be dealt with in due process. <BR /> <BR />A number of Members in other ways have asked whether the report will be laid before the Assembly. The laying process was triggered by the Law Commission sending a copy of its report to the Department of Justice. If the commission is no longer in existence, that trigger will, unfortunately, no longer occur.”
“Unfortunately, the Northern Ireland Law Commission ceased operations in 2015 before it had completed its review of the law of defamation in Northern Ireland. We were able to secure the services of Dr Andrew Scott, who had been undertaking the review on behalf of the commission. However, that break in the handling arrangements has inevitably impacted on the overall timetable, as has the additional work that Dr Scott undertook as a follow-up to the commission's consultation. We are, however, hopeful that Dr Scott's final report will be submitted to the Department by the end of this month.”
“I have, I think, highlighted the main issues of concern raised by Members. On that note, I commend to Members the 2016 Budget Bill.”
“However, an important factor in all the voluntary exit schemes supported by the transformation fund is business continuity, and the importance of being able to continue to provide essential public services has been central to the application of restructuring through the fund. The steering group will oversee the allocations from the fund, but it is for individual accounting officers to ensure that appropriate arrangements are in place to manage business continuity with each scheme. I have confidence that that is being done and confidence in the way that it is being handled. I have publicly paid tribute to my colleagues and staff for that, and I think that I can give the assurance that I believe that it will continue in that way. <BR /> <BR />I conclude by thanking those who have contributed.”
“I thank the Deputy Speaker for putting shackles on me, and I will conclude with a few comments in response to the debate. <BR /> <BR />If I miss some of the detail of the point raised by Mr Cree, I will write to him. He referred to tackling paramilitary activity, and funding of £10 million will be provided for that. The strategy for its use will be produced by June of this year, and the money will then be released. <BR /> <BR />Mr Cree also referred to business continuity, which is a concern of the Civil Service generally. From speaking to senior managers and permanent secretaries, I know that dealing with the transformation fund and the exit scheme was challenging.”
“If it is done on that basis, the outcome will still give us control over our future and over how we spend our money. <BR /> <BR />I recently heard a Minister — I cannot remember his name — talking about issues that he could have made progress on had he not been hindered by European legislation. My officials have said to me many times, "Minister, you could do this, but you need to be aware of state aid and European regulations". We have been shackled and fettered. Surely it is time for this United Kingdom to make up its mind whether it wants to be unleashed from those shackles or wants further shackles to be imposed.”
“That is what we have to be held to account for, rather than the doom and gloom prospect that is being painted here tonight. <BR /> <BR />The Member also referred to infrastructure, skills and FDI. He is right: we are right to develop the infrastructure and to assist with the skills agenda. If we do not do that preparation and put in that investment, there will be challenges ahead for us. The Member referred to a number of organisations and to the European issue, and another raft of organisations has commented nationally on the issue. Over the coming weeks, we will see more and more of that as we get closer to the date of the referendum. I reiterate that that will be an issue when this United Kingdom decides its future, which it needs to do on the basis of the facts and the finance.”
“The Member knows all too well, given the way in which we will profile the money and spend it, that that, for a variety of reasons, will always lead to challenges. The Member's colleague talked about building houses. We set targets, and sometimes targets are not met for the simple reason that there are issues with planning applications. I am glad that my colleague Lord Morrow has arrived to take some of the heat about building new houses. <BR /> <BR />We have made a commitment. We will have to deal with the circumstances as they are, and I trust that we can ensure that progress is made. The money has been committed, and we will do everything in our power to make sure that that project is delivered, along with the new children's hospital, the transport hub, the A6 and all the flagship projects.”
“We have now been criticised because someone has said, "If something happens, how will we deal with it?". We will have to deal with those circumstances. Let me reassure the Member and the House that we are committed to those flagship projects. The Member should take comfort from that. <BR /> <BR />Let me conclude my comments to Mr Attwood —”
“We then aligned money to projects over the period of the incoming Executive, even though we will have new Departments, and the Ministers are not appointed to them.”
“If I have such a plan, let me be very clear that it will be in North Antrim, so there is no secret about that. <BR /> <BR />On a serious point, let me talk about the public consultation. On 11 February, the Regional Development Minister announced publication of the new draft statutory orders and the new environmental statement for the A5 western transport corridor dual carriageway scheme and the commencement of the associated public consultation process. That process will run until 4 April this year and it is likely to lead — as the Minister was right to say — to a further public inquiry in autumn 2016. Subject to the outcome of that inquiry, the money is there to begin that work. <BR /> <BR />We were criticised when we did not align money to projects.”
“That is over the £36 million of investment loans that have been made to SMEs through the growth loan fund, against a target of £28 million. Yes, there are Members who undoubtedly are so begrudging that they do not even see that that is money that should have been spent; they would spend it differently. However, the companies that have been the beneficiaries and the recipients know who they want to thank for the money that they have received. <BR /> <BR />Mr Attwood then raised the issue of the A5. He seems to think that I have a cunning plan. Somehow, he thinks I am sitting waiting, very cunningly, on the Regional Development Minister not being able to spend her money this year, and then I have some secret plan that I am going to unveil.”
“I think that that will happen, but it will require the help and assistance of the party opposite, rather than them having sacred cows and saying, "We want to do this. However, to do that, you are not allowed to change this." I think it will be a challenge for the Member's party. <BR /> <BR />Let me say something, as well, on the issue of investment. I want to come onto the issue that the Member raised about corporation tax. Invest NI has secured approximately £550 million for investment in research and development. There are things that have been funded by Invest NI that are world-leading in their potential and the opportunities that they bring. That means that the agency is well on course to exceed its increased R&D investment target of £585 million.”
“The Savills report made abundantly clear the amount of money we are going to have to invest in our housing stock over the next number of years. Where is that money going to come from? We might wish it to be different but the reality is that, for the Executive's maintenance budget and its capital requirements for building new houses, that money is not as available as we would wish. We are going to have to look at different models for delivery. When I was the Minister for Social Development, I was on the record as saying that in this House. I am now Finance Minister, and I still believe the same thing. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right: if we get housing right, we will transform our communities by building, and the construction industry will see the benefits of that.”
“I think the Member knows the answer that I am going to give that. I was the Minister for Social Development, and now my colleague Lord Morrow is one of the few Ministers who can actually say that, during our tenure, we have built more houses than was the target in the Programme for Government. Do we want to do more? Yes, we do, but the decision and choice that is going to have to be made is whether the Member's party will support my colleague Lord Morrow when he brings forward proposals for the future of the Housing Executive. We have to recognise that the current structure and the way that the Housing Executive is created does not allow it to borrow money. <BR /> <BR />Let us put this in some reality.”
“Surely the Member is not saying to us that people who live in West Belfast cannot actually cross the Westlink and cannot access the jobs that are available in other parts. I do not want to be derogatory about this, but I think we need to have a sense of realism. <BR /> <BR />I will give way to my colleague, who probably wants me to mention Banbridge and Portadown.”
“Yes. I often bring people to visit this Building, and often we will go into the Senate. Members will know that in the Senate, the three friezes above the visitors' gallery depict the three most prominent industries that Northern Ireland had. Of course, that was when this Building was opened, and we know that we have lost our linen industry, we have lost our shipbuilding industry and there are challenges for our farming industry. Of course, if we were to put up there today who our main employers are, it would be a completely different presentation. I think we have to accept that it is not always going to be possible to have the numbers of jobs located in every town across Northern Ireland in the same way that we did in the past. We need to adapt to that change, and we need to recognise it.”
“I will give way, but I want to give way to my colleague first. <BR /> <BR />I know what it is like, from my constituency, to suffer from unemployment. There are many people who, when they talk about other places, think that somehow to lose JTI was not painful, to lose Michelin was not painful and to lose Patton's was not painful. We realise in North Antrim ,as much, if not more than any, the challenges that there are. Will that deter us from rising to those challenges? No, it will not. I think it should mean that we redouble every effort that we make to bring good-quality employment and opportunities to our communities. <BR /> <BR />I will give way to my colleague.”
“Yes, we can easily take figures and look at per capita spend, we can look at the visits of investors and then try to read into those figures that somehow a sinister plot is being hatched against those people and that somehow we do not want jobs in West Belfast, Londonderry or Strabane. I do, and I will continue to do, all in my power to ensure that people, irrespective of who they are or where they are, have access to good-quality jobs. If there is one thing that will help Northern Ireland to grow and be prosperous, it is employment. I do not see jobs for Roman Catholics, and I do not see jobs for Protestants: I see jobs for the people of Northern Ireland, and I think that we would all do our constituents a service if we would stop being so negative about this and welcome —”
“I find it strange that a party that failed to convince us of the merits of partition over 100 years now says that we have got partition, but it is partition in Belfast because we have partitioned off North, South, East and West, and we have partitioned Northern Ireland, which is now divided east and west. When the Enterprise Minister and I, as the Finance Minister, speak in the House, I do not see myself just speaking on behalf of one particular part of Northern Ireland. We are Ministers of the Executive for Northern Ireland, and every effort should be made to ensure that, whether it is in Londonderry, Limavady, Lurgan, Ballymena, Ballymoney, Dungannon or Downpatrick — I am going to have to go round you all — Magherafelt or Strabane or Cookstown, it is about ensuring that we deliver for all the people of Northern Ireland.”
“So, when Members come to the House and refer to waiting lists in our hospitals, issues of capital or resource for our schools, or roads infrastructure, those are the choices that we have to make. I would be less than honourable if I came to the House and did not believe or did not know that we still had a safety net for our communities and our people in a way that reflects their needs and particular circumstances. I trust that the Member has some sense of understanding that it is not about being heartless; it is about being responsive to needs within the financial constraints that we have. <BR /> <BR />The Member then raised the issue of a partition.”
“Of course, the Member is well aware of the Evason report and that the Executive have agreed a process as to how they will deal with these issues. I do not believe that it is right for Members to seek from me or from any Finance Minister any assurance that there is not going to be one penny lost from people's incomes. There are changes coming, but there is a process that will ensure that those that we can mitigate will be mitigated. I still believe that, at the heart of it, there will be care and compassion. <BR /> <BR />Would I want to have more? Yes, any Finance Minister would like to have more. Would we like to go further? I am sure that we would, but here is the issue: when we decide that we want to spend more on welfare mitigation, we are taking money from other places.”
“I will preface what I want to say with this: we can be very hard and harsh, and the talk about ripping £30 out of people's pockets makes it sounds as though, somehow, we are a heartless bunch, and that we do not care about the disabled, children, the unemployed or those people in difficult circumstances. The reality for us, as an Executive and as an Assembly, is that we spend over £4·8 billion each year in our benefits system, and that is going to rise over the next number of years to somewhere in excess of £6 billion. I do not think that that should be interpreted as ripping £30 out of people's pockets. We need to set it in the context of help and assistance to those who are in need. <BR /> <BR />The Fresh Start Agreement set aside £345 million for welfare mitigation measures up to 2019-2020.”
“We are dealing with circumstances that are immeasurably more challenging than those faced by any Member. As an MLA, I know all too well the many issues that my constituents face in parts of the constituency when they find themselves in difficult circumstances and have difficult financial choices to make.”
“I see nothing alarming or concerning in that. In fact, I think that it is something that is right in order to ensure accountability. In the context of our relationship with the rest of the United Kingdom, it is the way in which those issues ought to be handled. <BR /> <BR />I know that welfare reform is an issue that the Member has experience of, and I would not for one moment belittle or take away from the huge amount of time that he spends reading about and analysing such issues. He keeps his eye on and is well informed about many of the issues in Parliament. The Member knows that, when I was Minister for Social Development, I always ensured that welfare debates bore in mind that we were dealing with people. In debating welfare, we are dealing with people's lives and income.”
“There are challenges in dealing with the Treasury, as there are challenges in dealing with DWP. I have to say that I would prefer to deal with Her Majesty's Treasury than some Finance Department in Dublin. Of course, in the year that it is, there is a centenary, I understand, of something that happened in 1916, and Members across the Floor will have wished for that centenary to have seen us dealing with the Finance Minister in the Republic. The reality is that that ain't going to happen. I have to deal with the Chancellor and Her Majesty’s Treasury, and I have no difficulty in doing so. <BR /> <BR />The Fresh Start Agreement simply seeks to ensure that the Assembly does not vote through an annual Budget Bill that breaches Her Majesty's Treasury Budget controls, as set in the UK spending review.”