Mervyn Storey
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It will be noted that there are those who cry much about the environment and purport to be the champions of the environment who did not have the courtesy to come to the House and be present when the statement was being made.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Clearly, there are some in the House who want to continue with the same old, same old and get the same outcomes at a huge cost to the public purse and to farms in Northern Ireland. The Minister is absolutely right: it is a scourge.”
“I am sure that the Minister will be aware, having listened to the Member who spoke before me, that the farmers of North Antrim will make an informed choice about who best supported farmers during this mandate of the Assembly.”
“A pilot scheme has been operating with the Education Authority, the PSNI and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust across 60 schools in the south Down area since September 2021 and was extended to a further 77 schools in the Newry and south Armagh areas at the start of February 2022.”
“As Chair of the Justice Committee, I am pleased to welcome the motion. It implements the provisions taken forward by the Committee in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 to establish an Operation Encompass model in Northern Ireland, which is, as the Minister has outlined, a police and early intervention pa…”
“We had our final meeting of that Committee this morning, and I want to place on the public record our appreciation and thanks to our Committee staff of for all the work that they have done.”
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“That is why last week in the Budget, I indicated that, while we have already agreed £5 million for the skills agenda, it is my intention to bring forward proposals for an additional £20 million when we have further consideration in the June monitoring round after the new mandate comes into operation. <BR /> <BR />I believe that we need to ensure that all the component parts are in place to maximise the benefits of a reduced rate of corporation tax for Northern Ireland. Let us be under no illusions: there were those who were brought to the party late, and there were those who were probably seen as road-to-Damascus converts on this issue. I believe that Northern Ireland can move forward and build and give a future to our young people and to the economy.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question and his best wishes. As I said to someone the other day, the first thing that I had to do when I took the post was to acquire a big calculator and the second thing was to learn how to use it. I realise the challenge that there is for me in this role; however, I will endeavour to do my job to the best of my ability. <BR /> <BR />The Member raises a valid point, which is about ensuring that while we have set the date and the rate, we have in place all the other component parts that enable us to maximise the best outcome on corporation tax. One of those elements is particularly in relation to skills.”
“The memorandum of understanding will allow for timely development of the IT and administrative systems necessary for the successful implementation and operation of the Northern Ireland regime. A project board is being established with the role of overseeing this important work, which will include representation from my Department, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, Her Majesty’s Treasury, and the Northern Ireland Office.”
“The signing of this memorandum of understanding with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs is a further concrete step towards that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Northern Ireland Executive committed to introduce the devolved 12·5% rate of corporation tax from April 2018 as part of the Fresh Start Agreement.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. When the first Executive paper was circulated by a previous Minister of Finance and Personnel, it received a number of responses from other Ministers. However, not all Ministers have, as yet, responded, including those in the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister.”
“If payment were made to these staff, other staff in different grades or organisations may feel that they also had a moral right to such a payment, even though they were also unaffected by the Northern Ireland Civil Service pay settlement. NICS staff may become unhappy with the original equal pay settlement, especially if different amounts or grades receive payment, and this could result in a new group of disaffected staff. <BR /> <BR />I trust that the Member can see, as can the House, that this is not a simple issue. It is not as simple as getting an agreement in the Executive; it has implications for a variety of other elements of the Northern Ireland Civil Service, as I have outlined.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. There is always an issue in relation to risk when you come to the payment of an issue like this. As these staff suffered no equal pay detriment during their service, there is, as we have repeatedly said, no legal liability. In addition, it is not possible to construct a business case for a payment for the moral argument. That is within the terms of 'Managing Public Money NI'. Therefore, any payment would be highly vulnerable both to judicial review and to criticism by various audit bodies, including the PAC. An ex gratia payment cannot be made without legal cover, and that would need to be put in place.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. I repeat what I said about the importance of the issue. It is unfortunate that we are in this position in relation to that particular sector of public employees. I will, having read part of the judgement on the issue, have a discussion with my officials. The Member will appreciate that I have just taken up post. The matter is in my in tray and I am well aware that it needs to be revisited. I give the House a commitment that I will endeavour to pursue this over the coming weeks.”
“However, I take the view that we are still in a position in relation to how we would get a resolution to what is a very difficult situation.”
“I am well aware of the issue. I have read the report of the debate that took place in the House on the matter, and I would like to see progress being made. However, as Minister of Finance, I cannot get away from the court judgement on the issue. After the issue was taken to the courts, a particular ruling was made. There is also an issue with the particular pressure that we are under, given the financial position. There would be a considerable cost to the public purse, and it concerns me how we might balance that against other demands. I accept that my predecessors, going back as far as Minister Wilson, all expressed a view. Mr Wilson outlined the legal position. I think that the latest position, as outlined by Mr Hamilton, was that there was a moral argument. I concur with many of those comments.”
“With your permission, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I will answer questions 3 and 6 together. <BR /> <BR />The issue cannot be resolved by the Department of Finance and Personnel acting alone and will require Executive consideration. First, it is a cross-cutting issue. Secondly, there is no equal pay issue, and therefore no legal liability. It would require legislation to provide a route for payment. Executive discussion and agreement would be required for financial provision to be made. Thirdly, resolving the issue would require significant funding, and, given the already challenging departmental budgets, the Executive would need to agree where the money would come from.”
“Those who are selected for tranche 5 will receive an offer no later than the end of February, with exits occurring no later than the end of June. Applicants who do not receive an offer by the end of February will receive notification that they have not been selected. That will signal the formal closure of the VES. There are no plans to introduce a further scheme. <BR /> <BR />I conclude by saying that, when all five tranches are completed, the scheme should generate approximately £86 million in annual pay bill savings at a cost, in the form of compensation, of around £90 million.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. The voluntary exit scheme has played an important role in ensuring that we are able to get to the end of this financial year in a better financial place than others had anticipated. By the end of January, over 2,410 Northern Ireland Civil Service staff will have left under the voluntary exit scheme, with a further 404 due to leave at the end of March. Overall, those exits will deliver a pay bill saving of around £24 million in this financial year. <BR /> <BR />Although the scheme was initially intended to end in March 2016, six Departments — DFP, DE, DCAL, the Department of Justice, DSD and DRD — have confirmed that they wish to facilitate a limited number of exits and make around 220 offers through a fifth and final tranche.”
“I have to seek the views of my ministerial colleagues. The views of Ministers will be sought and action plans developed for those areas agreed by them. We are trying to assess the report. I will then share the report with my ministerial colleagues. It is then my intention to sign off on the report and make it public.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. I want to see progress made in relation to the issue. However, the finalisation of the report does not mean acceptance of all its recommendations.”
“The OECD conducted a benchmarking analysis of how our public sector compares against international settings, assessed against three overarching themes: improving strategic approaches; improving engagement with people; and improving operational delivery. It also made recommendations on six targeted core studies. Those were: improving educational outcomes for looked-after children; problem-solving justice; governance of public procurement; Delivering Social Change framework; health service commissioning; and streamlining regulation. I, along with my officials, am currently considering the draft report.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. My predecessor and my colleague in DETI have had discussions with the banks around a number of issues. I intend to meet my colleague the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment very soon, and it is our intention to meet the banks. The concern that the Member raised is something that I would be quite happy to pursue with them. I am also quite happy to meet the Member to discuss the issue further because I am aware of the interest that he has taken on this and a number of other related issues.”
“I thank the Member for his question. When a fixed charge receiver is appointed, they take control of the management of a property, usually when a borrower has defaulted on payment. The fixed charge receiver acts as an agent of the borrower, only being liable for the rates when a property that they are managing is, first of all, occupied, generates rent payable to the receiver, or, where one of the following applies: non-domestic properties where the net annual value is below £1,590 and the frequency of rent payments is less than quarterly; and domestic properties where the capital value is under £150,000.”
“I appeal to Members to decline the current amendment and ask them to work with me on a revised draft of that amendment that we can all advocate in the Further Consideration Stage. If we cannot do that, the amendment stands, and I will give serious consideration to the next steps for the Bill and its continued merit. <BR /> <BR />I want to conclude by responding to my colleague Mr Cree's point about the omission of community amateur sports clubs from the original Bill. That was deliberate, because consultation will draw out in detail the issues that Mr Cree has rightly raised. That is the point that we want to get to. I want to ensure that what we have in the Bill is fair and equitable. The amendment would leave us in a very unfair situation, and I therefore ask Members not to support it.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a show of good faith and in a spirit of cooperation, should Members agree with my opposition to the amendment, I would offer the opportunity to meet with Mr McKay and others to discuss the possibility of agreeing such a further revision that could then be tabled at Further Consideration Stage. I would be very happy to support an adjustment that has conditionality reinserted, but I cannot support the amendment as it stands. <BR /> <BR />Given the issues that I cited, I ask therefore that Members simply oppose the amendment. Should the amendment pass, at a minimum, a further amendment for Further Consideration Stage would be required to revise clause 1 in line with my earlier suggestion so that it remains compatible with the preferred policy position of the Department.”
“The amendment has the effect of requiring all community amateur sports club cases falling within clause 1(2) to be given the relief. <BR /> <BR />Should the three Members be receptive, I would be open to a change that would retain most of the drafting in the amendment but reinstate the ability to prescribe conditions that would have to be satisfied. As Members know, I would then intend to consult on the use of that conditionality provision to limit relief to community amateur sports clubs without bar facilities and/or a liquor licence. That would be done very simply by adjusting paragraph 5B to insert the words, "subject to such conditions as may be prescribed" after the words, "shall include".”
“Those problems, now well-documented in the Chamber and in Committee, centre on the lack of due process work and the competition issues created by the policy approach adopted in the previous private Member's Bill in this area and the amendment being considered today. Unlike the Members proposing the amendment, I cannot dispense with those concerns. My Department would have to defend a judicial review against such a weak and ill thought-through policy and the public purse would have to fund any shaky defence associated with such a case. <BR /> <BR />The specific detail of my issue with the proposed amendment relates to the new paragraph 5B, which is drafted in a way that prevents the prescribing of conditions that would have to be satisfied before enhanced relief would be awarded. I hope that is inadvertent.”
“The valid concerns of the hospitality industry were vindicated in its evidence session and underlined the genuine nature of its concerns, which some chose to doubt during the October debate. Indeed, anyone reading the Minutes of Evidence from those Committee sessions would have grasped the complexity of the issue at hand, the competing policy considerations at play and the lack of understanding of this issue, I think, on Mr McKay's part. If anything, the Committee consideration heavily underlined the need for the completion of the necessary due process work before the detail is legislated for. <BR /> <BR />At Second Stage, I commented on the problems associated with a blanket policy position being enshrined in the amendment; for example, the award of enhanced relief to all community amateur sports clubs.”
“I will move on, with regret, to outline why I cannot support the amendment in its totality. <BR /> <BR />My reason for opposing the amendment is that its effect, either intentionally or unintentionally on behalf of the Members tabling it, will to revert to the policy that was advocated by the private Member's Bill on this area, which my party and my predecessor opposed. Members will recall that my predecessor vehemently opposed that Bill and the depth of my Department's concerns with that approach. This is a different Bill, but the position has not changed. <BR /> <BR />I know that, when the Committee considered the issue, it recognised that matters were not as straightforward as Mr McKay previously outlined in advocating his Bill.”
“In looking at the positive aspects of the amendment to clause 1, I can support the express requirement to make regulations by the end of September. It is, largely, a cosmetic change, because that was my Department's intent. Nonetheless, I would be happy to put it in the Bill, if it provided Members with greater surety. Likewise, I am happy to make the express reference to "community amateur sports clubs". Again, that would be a presentational change, because that is another key aspect of my preferred policy. I have no issue, per se, with the reference being put into the Bill if Members feel that it would be of benefit.”
“Thank you to those Members who have contributed to the debate — this afternoon. I had to check to make sure that we were in the afternoon. <BR /> <BR />There is only one amendment tabled at this stage. I am in the position of having to oppose it when it is taken in its entirety. I will take some time to work through the reasons why. It is regrettable that we find ourselves in this position. There are elements within the amendment that would have been acceptable to me, and which would have fallen neatly within the stated aim of the Bill, as introduced, and my preferred policy position for consultation. <BR /> <BR />I will start positively and look at the good points within the amendment, and then we will come to the others.”
“When I came into office, I was made aware that we would have this Adjournment debate tonight, and I want to place on record the immense work carried out by the rangers and estate staff, and also include those in relation to the Commission here and those who look after this Building. We are well served by dedicated and professional staff who give a very good impression of the estate and the Building when visitors come, and I trust that we, collectively, can continue to ensure that Stormont estate and the Stormont buildings are the jewel in the crown in relation to our tourism product and the history of Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for that. I will give an assurance that we will look at those additional issues. Having taken cognisance of all the comments that have been made, we will write to the Members present and give you an update on the issues that we will undertake following on from the debate. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, we have to take historical, environmental and practical concerns into consideration in any discussion about using the estate, but, generally, if an event can be approved, it will be. Every event is facilitated as well as it possibly can be. I want to place my appreciation on record.”
“I better not say any more or I will get into trouble, but I have a daughter getting married later this year, and I appreciate that, for those involved in that very special day, coming up against difficulties like that is an added pressure. I will ask my officials to look at that to see if we can have a more streamlined, open approach, and we will come back to the Member.”
“That issue was raised by my colleague Mr Lyttle, and the estate management team met the Pavilion management on the issue of access and will continue to work with them to seek a resolution that is acceptable to all. I am quite happy to keep the Member informed as to any other issues that come from that. <BR /> <BR />My officials will continue to liaise with those organisations to ensure that events do not clash and that areas of the estate for which my Department has responsibility are available as appropriate. I will take the comments made by my colleague Mr Douglas on board around the difficulties someone had getting wedding photographs taken. I have a wedding this year in my own home. I want to reassure you that it is not my own; I did that 28 years ago.”
“There is also an issue around the number of buses. Sometimes, I use public transport to come from north Antrim to the House, and the train service is outstanding. I appreciate it and enjoy using it. The difficulty comes when you have to get a connection. I may be wrong, and I trust that I am not placing something on the record that is totally inaccurate but, from memory, I think that only two buses access the estate. That can become a particular challenge, and we may need to have a conversation with the Minister for transport on that. <BR /> <BR />It is also worth mentioning that two other organisations occupy part of the estate; the Assembly Commission, which I referred to, and the Northern Ireland Civil Service Sports Association.”
“<BR /> <BR />That brings me to the issue that was raised by the Member for South Belfast in relation to bus shelters and the issue of Sustrans. I will have my management team take a look at that particular issue.”
“It is an issue that gives us considerable concern as to how we will provide additional car parking in the future. There are issues that we have to take into consideration as the estate has developed over the last number of years, particularly since the bringing back of devolution and the opening up of the estate. We also want to be sensitive to the need to ensure that noise levels are kept to a minimum. We want to, for example, ensure that events are held within restricted time periods to ensure that our neighbours are not disturbed. When appropriate to events, we will therefore work closely with all other agencies that might have a responsibility or an interest in the aspects of the safe traffic management of the surrounding area, such as Transport NI and the police.”
“I have to say that I always feel safe when I have a piece of paper in my hand, rather than an iPad or a computer. I am quite happy to pursue that issue on behalf of the Member. Maybe the first step is to also liaise with the education department in the Assembly and have a discussion with it around that issue. <BR /> <BR />We also have to be cognisant of the fact that people who live around and nearby the estate have raised concerns in the past. Our neighbours are an important consideration, and I am particularly keen to ensure that we keep to a minimum any impacts on or disruption to their lives, both from the day-to-day operation of the estate and from any events that we hold. With bigger events, we know that, for example, we have finite parking facilities, and they are often fully utilised.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the issues that we may also need to raise with the Commission here, and with the department that is responsible for the tours is that, while the tours in this Building are primarily in relation to this Building, I think that a lot of people come and go away but do not actually have a full understanding of what is still available. To that end, some work has been done to produce a leaflet. Even during the course of this debate some other things have come to mind that we might want to amend the leaflet and add to it. After the debate we will take cognisance of what more we can put in it. That will be produced shortly, so it will available for people as a point of reference. It will also be online, which is helpful for those people who are more amenable to using modern technology.”
“The traffic arrangements and the comings and goings throughout the average day actually equate to those in one of our small towns. We run a myriad of events every year — some 37 events per year — from the smallest Boy Scouts charity run to the major international events like the Giro and the Crashed Ice event, which all bring their own particular complications and challenges. We have already referred to some of that. I think Robin raised the particular issue in relation to what more could be done in terms of the promotion with children and youth organisations. I am more than happy to task my estate team with considering how we can promote the use of the estate amongst youth organisations.”
“Sometimes I think we become accustomed. It is interesting to hear the comments of the Member for South Belfast about taking a picture of it every day. We come here and can easily forget the pleasure and privilege that is ours to come to what is a very iconic building, which is also set in the most stunning of surroundings. I am convinced that none of us would wish to consider anything that would have significant and ongoing impacts on the estate. That means that we need to ensure that whatever events occur or work is carried out on the estate is done in a way that is caring and is reflective of our commitment to the environment and to ensuring that we enhance it, rather than create any difficulties. <BR /> <BR />We have to reflect the fact that the estate is open 365 days a year.”
“In fact, some of the original forested areas, dating back to 1830, are still in existence. The estate has acquired Green Flag status, and careful management means that our wooded grounds are fast becoming an important educational site. Our whole estate is, as was referred to, an important tourism and heritage site. I hope that I sound proud of the estate because I think that we all have a right to be proud of what we have.”
“Just to prove that my preparation for the debate went beyond the work of my officials, I can tell you that you will find information on two websites — that is an issue that we will have to look at — the Stormont Assembly website, which is under the jurisdiction of the Commission, and the Northern Ireland Executive website. The Assembly website is very good and gives pictures and additional information, and I commend those responsible for it for the work that they have done. <BR /> <BR />As well as the Assembly Building, we have Stormont Castle, buildings of various lineage, over 400 acres of land — grassland and woodland — and a formal processional avenue. The double rows of red-twigged limes that flank Prince of Wales Avenue are the originally planted trees and are over 80 years old.”
“As we hold this debate and take forward the business of government, along with in the region of 2,500 civil servants, we are surrounded by iconic and historic buildings, all of which are sited in the most beautiful and majestic natural environment, as mentioned by most contributors. <BR /> <BR />The original land for the estate was purchased in 1921 for the princely sum of £20,344, and the estate grew continuously up to the 1960s to what we see today. If you go on to the Executive's website, you will find out about the interesting history of Stormont Castle and Rev John Cleland.”
“I am grateful to my friend and colleague Robin for seeking to ensure that the marvellous facility that is the Stormont estate is used to the maximum benefit of the community, although I think that he should have declared an interest because he does not live too far from it. Either we are in his back garden or he is in ours — I am not sure which. <BR /> <BR />I particularly welcome the opportunity that the debate affords us to take Members' views on how we might move forward with the use of the estate, and I think that we will have something positive to say about that. <BR /> <BR />Stormont estate could be described as a mixture of country park and working area.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have to say that I have enjoyed the opportunity to come and listen to the Members who contributed. I want to return to a few things that were raised during the debate. <BR /> <BR />This is only a preliminary comment: we need to draw a distinction between the Commission, which is responsible for this Building, and my Department, which is responsible for the estate that lies beyond the railings. Sometimes, those barriers can become an impediment, so we may need to look at that. There are priorities that have to come to the Commission, and it, therefore, has its own responsibilities. I will work my way through the comments that I want to make and then come back to comments made during the debate. <BR /> <BR />First, I thank the Member for initiating the debate and commend him for securing it for this evening.”
“If those who want to criticise the Budget have any alternatives for how to best provide for the people of Northern Ireland, it is time they brought them to the House. <BR /> <BR />This Budget protects and provides, and it prepares Northern Ireland so that it can to continue to make progress in 2016 and beyond. I commend the Budget to the Assembly.”
“Is it wrong that we vote for an additional £20 million to the Department for Infrastructure for road structural maintenance, given that that issue was pathetically dealt with or not dealt with by the previous Minister? Is it wrong that, since 2012, 525 new businesses have benefited from the introduction of the empty premises rate relief? Is it wrong that, since 2008, almost 27,000 older people have received around £35 million in rate relief through the lone pensioner allowance scheme? <BR /> <BR />I know that there are those who have talked about other tax-raising powers. This party is a low taxation party. Let us put the record straight on how we have provided for our community. In Scotland the rate of taxation is £1,337 per person; in England it is £1,465 per person: and in Wales it is £1,550. In Northern Ireland it is £842 per person.”
“<BR /> <BR />I conclude by saying that we simply need to realise that we face difficult and challenging times. It is undoubtedly a challenge for me and for the Executive to ensure that we manage our finances in a way that delivers and continues to deliver our public services. The public demand nothing better from us than to ensure that we keep our focus on those issues. It is my responsibility as Finance Minister to bring to the House a balanced and sustainable Budget. That is what I believe we have done with this Budget. However, I would like Members of the House who have been critical of the Budget this evening to say whether it is wrong that, today, we vote for an additional £133 million to the health service. Is it wrong that we vote for an additional £40 million to the Department of Education?”
“Members did not highlight the flagship projects and the certainty that it brings to the construction industry, although I am glad that there were Members who referred to the positive comments that have come from organisations such as the Quarry Products Association. But then, of course, there are Members of the House who would like to dispense with that and almost deny that that was said. However, when it is a reality, we have to face up to it. The Members also did not provide any detail of how their parties would have done things differently and still adhered to the limited budget. It is true that the Budget will not provide funding for everything, but I have not heard any credible plans from others on how they would do things differently.”
“The Executive allocated an additional £5 million to the Department for the Economy in 2016-17 for skills development, and Members will be aware of the commitment that I gave to increase that funding to the £20 million that we have said needs to be brought forward. That gives an indication that there is a commitment from my party and from the Executive to deal with those issues. <BR /> <BR />Anna Lo and a number of other Members referred to the strategic nature of the Budget. The Members did not highlight the difficult time frame that the Executive faced or the difficulties involved in restructuring Executive Departments.”
“However, in light of the complexities of departmental restructuring and the fact that new Ministers will have their priorities, the Executive have agreed that the rule will be suspended for the first monitoring round of the year. I trust that that deals with the issue that the Member raised. <BR /> <BR />I turn to Mr Eastwood's comments about higher education funding. I fully recognise the need to ensure that our universities remain competitive in a national and, indeed, international context and that the skills needs of our economy continue to be met. A greater level of STEM skills will be required in future years, particularly when the lower rate of corporation tax is introduced from April 2018. It is, therefore, important that our universities adapt to that challenge and prioritise those skills.”
“Reform is ongoing across the health and social care service, and I remind Members that Transforming Your Care is not about reducing our investment in health and social care services; it is about making the best use of the resources that are available to us. <BR /> <BR />Mr Maskey raised a technical point about the de minimis rule. He referred to the potential difficulties with Departments having to seek Executive agreement to move funds between spending areas in excess of the de minimis level of £1 million. That requirement has been in place for some time and is designed to ensure that funding allocations reflect the priorities of the Executive as a whole rather than those of individual Ministers.”