Mervyn Storey
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It will be noted that there are those who cry much about the environment and purport to be the champions of the environment who did not have the courtesy to come to the House and be present when the statement was being made.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Clearly, there are some in the House who want to continue with the same old, same old and get the same outcomes at a huge cost to the public purse and to farms in Northern Ireland. The Minister is absolutely right: it is a scourge.”
“I am sure that the Minister will be aware, having listened to the Member who spoke before me, that the farmers of North Antrim will make an informed choice about who best supported farmers during this mandate of the Assembly.”
“A pilot scheme has been operating with the Education Authority, the PSNI and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust across 60 schools in the south Down area since September 2021 and was extended to a further 77 schools in the Newry and south Armagh areas at the start of February 2022.”
“As Chair of the Justice Committee, I am pleased to welcome the motion. It implements the provisions taken forward by the Committee in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 to establish an Operation Encompass model in Northern Ireland, which is, as the Minister has outlined, a police and early intervention pa…”
“We had our final meeting of that Committee this morning, and I want to place on the public record our appreciation and thanks to our Committee staff of for all the work that they have done.”
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“The process has been fraught with challenges. In some communities, it has been a challenge to try to get an understanding of what needs to be achieved with the urban villages concept. Under the OFMDFM urban villages initiative, there could be opportunities to bid for funding through future government monitoring rounds, and we are looking at that to see how to progress it. I want progress to be made on the ones that we originally identified. If we do that, we will be more successful in how we use this as a means in the future. <BR /> <BR />Through the June monitoring round, £500,000 was allocated to Londonderry, £400,000 was allocated to EastSide, and £1·2 million was allocated to the Colin town centre urban village to complete a number of projects.”
“As the Member will appreciate, the urban villages initiative is being led by the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. DSD has been supporting the urban villages initiative through submitting, in early May, a bid for funding at the June monitoring round for a number of projects in Belfast and Londonderry totalling £2·1 million. The projects were identified along with estimated costs by the Strategic Investment Board (SIB). My Department is also supporting the urban villages initiative by assisting the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister and the Strategic Investment Board when possible in the delivery of a number of those projects within the current financial year, and that work is ongoing.”
“The Department looked at best practice. Sometimes, that is good. It is maybe not always good to look at practice in other jurisdictions, because there is an underlying assumption that everybody else gets it right somewhere else, but that might not always be the case. When it comes to look at best practice, Northern Ireland leads the way in many of these things and in the way that we approach issues. We looked at best practice in other jurisdictions and compared those with our current controls in Northern Ireland. Many representatives from the housing association movement were also involved, and there were workshops under the social housing reform programme before the consultation was published. That contribution was key in the development of the new framework. As we move forward, we have tried to incorporate the issues that were raised.”
“That gives us an indication of the breadth of what we are seeking to achieve, although I have to say — I know that the Member takes a particular interest in this issue — it is a challenging process that we set ourselves, because of the vastness of the sector and the particular challenges that we face.”
“I will set this in context. The Department regulates the work of all social housing providers in Northern Ireland, and uses a regulatory framework to do so. In the light of the changes in the housing sector in the last few years, and the reviews of regulatory frameworks in other jurisdictions, it was decided to look again at this framework. The consultation document outlined proposals for a new regulatory framework, and the regulations will be carried out against three standards: the consumer, governance and finance. Obviously, that will bring us into the area of looking at risk-based processes. An element of flexibility will be built in to accommodate variations in organisations, such as size, development plans, previous history and business complexity.”
“The response to the public consultation on a new regulatory framework for social housing was published on the Department for Social Development’s website on 30 September 2015. It is planned to issue the final framework document early in the new year. Implementation will commence during 2016-17.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is just as I said to Mr Dallat: none of us know what will face us in the weeks and months ahead or what difficulties we may face as families. At the moment, I have a particular personal issue in relation to my father, who has just come out of hospital after a protracted length of time there. Additional resources are needed, and we will have to look at how his needs are going to be met. How much more is that the case when there are children with disabilities. That is an issue, and I am quite happy to include the issue of children with disabilities and how they are provided for in a new build situation, in the consideration that we give to how we make progress on this issue.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. Obviously, there is sometimes an element of this where, unfortunately, we have to look beyond the confines of the Housing Executive to provision by a housing association. I can think of one particular case at the moment which has been protracted for far too long and which, as Minister, I have tried to expedite. A very large family, with children who have particular disabilities, has been unable to get appropriate housing. A number of locations have been looked at, but that case has gone on too long and I had a meeting just last week with the chief executive of a housing association in relation to it. It sometimes ends up going to housing associations, as much as to the Housing Executive.”
“We are often criticised in this House for what we have not done, but for those who I referred to in my substantive reply, we have approved over 1,200 disabled facilities grants and expended well over £12 million in grant assistance. That has made an invaluable contribution to the well-being, livelihood and day-to-day experience of those people who suffer with a disability. <BR /> <BR />I will certainly give further consideration to the comments of the Member, particularly with our colleagues in occupational therapy and the other component parts that make up the decision-making process.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary question. Obviously, this is an issue not only of the budget allocated but of the process that is used. I am well aware of the issue, not only as a Minister with responsibility, which is important, but as an MLA. Like yourself, I am well aware of constituents who are affected because the process can be somewhat protracted, particularly if you are dependent on a report from occupational therapy and are waiting for all of the particular elements to be in a row. <BR /> <BR />I assure the Member that under reviews, as you are well aware, Departments review the practice and the process. That is an element that I am more than happy to give further consideration to.”
“The Housing Executive administers the disabled facilities grant, which has a significant impact on the lives of those who live with a disability in private sector housing, helping them to make adaptations to their homes. <BR /> <BR />In 2014-15, the Housing Executive approved over 1,200 disabled facilities grants and expended over £12 million in grant assistance. This year to date, 537 applications have been received, and almost 500 disabled facilities grant applications have been approved. Those grant applications address issues such as access to premises, downstairs bathrooms and wet rooms and downstairs bedrooms.”
“For those reasons and for others that we have outlined in terms of the timescale, it is important that we continue to focus on bringing the Bill through the Assembly so that we can meet the deadlines. That will ensure that the position in Northern Ireland is not out of kilter with that in the rest of the United Kingdom.”
“Automatic enrolment is under way, and that will bring many people, particularly lower earners, into private pensions for the first time. That, together with the new state pension being set above the rate of pension credit, will particularly help low earners. I trust that that gives Members some assurance that consideration is being given to that issue and that benefit will flow from the Pension Schemes Bill in that regard. <BR /> <BR />I will conclude on the comments that were made by the Member for East Antrim Mr Beggs, particularly his concerns about parity. We are bringing the Bill and having accelerated passage to ensure that we maintain parity. I fully support his comments on the need to maintain it, and that is precisely why I am doing what I am doing in the House today.”
“Much detail will flow from those regulations, and I trust that, as that is made available, it will give Members assurance on consumer protection, intergenerational risk and the issues that were raised by my colleague Mrs Bradley and make it clearer that we are doing everything that we possibly can to protect and to ensure that this is a fair and balanced scheme. <BR /> <BR />The Member for Upper Bann Mrs Kelly referred to the zero-hours contract guidance and to low earners. We are all aware of issues with zero-hours contracts. My ministerial colleague Dr Farry is equally aware and is, I believe, seeking to address the issue in some way. I will be supporting his efforts on that. Guidance is outlined in the position that I stated earlier in reference to Pension Wise and what is available through the work of that website.”
“The Bill contains powers to restrict the ability of schemes offering collective benefits to undertake significant amounts of intergenerational risk transfer. For example, there is a duty to ensure that the scheme remains well funded, plus a duty to take the specified actions of taking a deficit or specifying a pension within which stocks must be absorbed. I assure the Member that members' protection is paramount for us, and it is also an issue of importance for the Department as we move forward, particularly in relation to the regulations. The regulations will be brought to the Committee so that the Committee will have the opportunity to see those regulations.”
“The Pension Wise website includes guidance on how to avoid scams. Northern Ireland Direct signposts people to the Pension Wise website and to further advice on pension scams. The Financial Conduct Authority has recently launched its ScamSmart campaign to raise public awareness of potential scams. So an effort is being made, but, in all these things, we need to ensure that there is due diligence in a way that is relevant to our circumstances. The question was asked: what advice is available to warn people? As I said, the Government have launched Pension Wise, and I think that we should endeavour to use that information to the best of our ability. <BR /> <BR />The Chair also raised the issue of consumer protection and the intergenerational risk.”
“Pension Wise was thus launched, and the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) published the standards for guidance when delivering Pension Wise.”
“Her Majesty's Treasury and the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) are closely monitoring the operation of the schemes and the new flexibilities and will consider action in any way necessary should particular trends begin to emerge. <BR /> <BR />Others commented that the flexibilities will open the door to scams. Unfortunately, those who want to do something that is unlawful and that can be very detrimental are not averse to trying to scam this particular regime. It is an unfortunate fact of modern life that there will always be those who seek to scam others. As part of the pension flexibilities announced in the 2014 Budget, the Government proposed that all consumers with defined contribution pensions should be entitled to free, impartial guidance at retirement about their options when accessing pension savings.”
“The provision seeks to ensure that people proposing to take advantage of the new pension flexibilities from April 2015 have access to free guidance through Pension Wise, and the Chair referred to that. That is provided online, through a telephone helpline run by the Pensions Advisory Service, as well as face-to-face by Citizens Advice in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Those in a defined benefit scheme who wish to take advantage of the flexibilities must take independent financial advice. That is because defined benefit pensions tend to be of good quality, so it will be to most people's financial advantage to stay in the scheme.”
“I also say a word of appreciation to my officials, who have on a number of occasions made themselves available to the Committee, and who will still be available to it should any more queries arise during the process. We are also quite happy to continue to engage with Members. If, during my contribution, I fail to deal with any particular issue because of an oversight, I assure Members that I will get back to them after checking Hansard so that no issues raised by Members are not addressed. <BR /> <BR />The Chair of the Committee raised the issue of guidance. Guidance and advice requirements, as they are known, fall within the remit of the Westminster Pension Schemes Act 2015 rather than this Bill. Guidance falls within the ambit of financial services, which is a reserved matter.”
“I thank Members for their contributions. I concur with the comments made by my colleague about the technical nature of all of this. Paula Bradley said that she did not claim to be an expert. Well, neither do I. Indeed, for many people listening to the debate or those who have to deal with them, pensions are complicated and bring their particular challenges. I am just glad that I have very well informed officials who have become embedded in the issue. <BR /> <BR />I will come to advice as I work my way through the conclusion to this particular legislative stage. First, I thank the Chair and the Committee for their work on the Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, legislation is being brought to the House that will allow for greater flexibility in scheme design and greater risk sharing between employers, employees and third parties, and that should improve private pension outcomes in the long-term; something that, I believe, we all want to support in the House. I commend the Bill to the Assembly.”
“As I said during the debate on accelerated passage, the overall aim of the Bill is simple. It is to help provide safer and better incomes in retirement. I suppose that some of us would do well to declare an interest at this point as we head towards that. I never thought that I would be standing in the House saying that. However, the other day, I got a piece of correspondence through in relation to my own pension, which gave me the date for my retirement. I looked at it and thought, "Well, that seems to be away in the future". I think it was 2029. Then I suddenly realised that that is only 14 years, and that is almost as long as I have been in the House, so it does not seem that long. I declare an interest in dealing with this particular issue. I have no doubt that other Members who speak following me will have to do the same thing.”
“I think that that is an important element to underline and underscore, because there is always a concern that, when we have the imposition of regulation, it is in some way very draconian and inhibitive. I want to ensure that the Bill will provide for new permissive regulatory frameworks. I think we want to underscore the element with proportionate regulation for different types of schemes. It has to be balanced, and we have to get the balance right. <BR /> <BR />For the first time, the Bill will set out clear statutory definitions of various scheme types, including defined benefit, shared risk, defined contribution and an additional benefit level classification to recognise collective benefits. <BR /> <BR />I think that we can all agree that we want to ensure that good-quality pension provision continues for future generations.”
“It also enables the Department to issue statutory guidance on the disclosure of information about schemes and includes provision that deals with pension sharing and normal benefit age. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the underlying objective of the Bill is to create space for market innovation rather than for government to design commercial products. However, it will, as ever, involve achieving a balance between ensuring that there is a level of regulation that does not discourage new models and, at the same time, adequately safeguarding members’ interests. The Bill will provide for a new, permissive regulatory framework with proportionate regulation for different types of schemes.”
“<BR /> <BR />As a consequence of the new scheme definitions and the provisions about collective benefits, a number of changes are required to existing pensions legislation. Part 3 of the Bill aims to ensure that current legislative requirements that relate to governance and administration apply in the appropriate way to the new scheme categories. It contains new powers to make regulations, for example, in relation to indexation and revaluation of benefits and setting out conditions to be met for a pensions promise to be obtained from a third party, and it imposes a duty on managers to act in the best interests of members when making specified decisions in relation to collective benefits or shared-risk schemes.”
“Regulations may also require trustees or managers to set initial targets at such a level that the probability of meeting the target will fall within a specified range, and for that to be certified by an actuary. The setting of targets is key in ensuring that schemes that provide collective benefits operate in as transparent a manner as possible. <BR /> <BR />There is no employer liability to stand behind or guarantee a target that is offered in relation to a collective benefit beyond the contribution level. However, the Bill contains a series of regulation-making powers that relate to the governance of schemes to ensure that appropriate safeguards are in place. For example, requirements may be set out in secondary legislation in relation to scheme reporting, the payment of benefits, benefit targets and valuation.”
“Consequently, collective benefits cannot provide members with a promise or guarantee about the level of benefit that they are likely to receive, and the benefit received will depend entirely on the scheme’s funding position and the factors used to determine what proportion of that is available for the provision of particular benefits. <BR /> <BR />Trustees or managers of pension schemes that offer collective benefits will be required to set targets in relation to the rate or amount of those benefits. The intention is that members of a scheme that offers collective benefits should be provided with a reasonable estimate of the benefits that they can expect to receive from the scheme. In the absence of a well-defined pot over which the individual has clear ownership, the target is a way of illustrating what a member might expect to receive.”
“In addition to establishing a new legal framework for private pensions, the Bill will also enable the provision of collective benefits. Collective benefits are provided on the basis of allowing the scheme’s assets to be used in a way that pools risk across the membership, both in the accumulation phase and in payment. As such, members do not have their own individual pension pots from which their pension income will be provided. Instead, any gains or losses that arise from the performance of the scheme’s investments will be shared amongst all members.”
“The new scheme categories will apply to existing pension schemes. However, they do not make any additional requirements about benefit design and do not change current legislative requirements, such as occupational scheme funding or member protections. The new definitions do not apply in any public service pensions legislation. That issue was raised by colleagues across the House during previous discussions on the issue. <BR /> <BR />In the case of a scheme not fitting exclusively into one of the new definitions, regulations will provide for a scheme to be treated as two or more separate schemes, each of which will fall within a category.”
“The new shared-risk definition describes a middle ground between the more polarised defined contribution and defined benefit definitions. It will create a distinctive space to encourage innovation in pension scheme design. Shared-risk schemes should provide employees with greater certainty about the final value of their pension than they would have under a defined contribution scheme but with less cost volatility for employers than a defined benefit scheme.”
“The categories will be a defined benefits scheme, in which the member has a full pensions promise about the rate of the retirement income they will receive for life from a fixed normal pension age; a shared-risk scheme, also known as defined ambition, will promise some retirement benefits, whether income or lump sum; and the defined contributions scheme, where there will be no promise about the benefit outcome. <BR /> <BR />New definitions are necessary, because whilst the terms "defined benefits scheme" and "defined contributions scheme" are well recognised and are often used to distinguish between the two types of schemes that currently make up private pension saving, they are not generally used in private pensions legislation.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some reform has already taken place, and the continued roll-out of automatic enrolment is expected to reverse the trend of falling private pension participation over time. However, if defined contribution schemes remain the main alternative to defined benefits, outcomes for savers will be less certain and more volatile, making it much harder for future generations of savers to plan for later life. The need for further reform is clear. <BR /> <BR />Part 1 of the Bill will introduce three mutually exclusive categories of pension scheme, including a new shared-risk category. Each category will be defined by the type of promise provided to savers during the accumulation phase about the benefits that will be available to people on retirement.”
“The last few decades have seen a decline in defined benefit pension provision in the private sector. Many employers have found the increasing cost of longevity and investment risk too heavy to bear. Crucially, the employer remains liable for any deficit in the scheme funding. In 2014, the Pensions Regulator reported that only 13% of defined benefit schemes remained open to new members. As membership of defined benefit schemes has declined, there has been a growth in the membership of other types of private pension schemes, particularly defined contribution schemes. That means that, increasingly the risks associated with pensions are being borne by individuals, rather than employers.”
“Whereas for an employer, defined contribution schemes provide certainty regarding costs, for scheme members, the level of income that they can expect in retirement is uncertain.”
“Existing private pension legislation is based largely on a binary system of money purchase schemes, commonly referred to as defined contribution schemes, which offer no certainty over retirement benefits, and non-money purchase schemes, commonly referred to as defined benefit schemes, which traditionally offer salary-related benefits that provide certainty about what will be paid in retirement. <BR /> <BR />The key difference between those models is who bears the risk of pension saving, such as longevity, investment and inflation. In traditional defined benefit schemes, the risks are borne by the employer. In defined contribution schemes, they are borne by the employee.”
“The Bill follows on from the Pension Schemes Act 2015 recently enacted by Westminster. The Bill will introduce a new legislative framework for private pensions and seeks to rejuvenate the pensions industry by allowing for greater innovation in pension scheme design. <BR /> <BR />Increasing life expectancy has been one of the success stories of the last 60 years. The fact that, in general, people are living significantly longer and healthier lives is to be celebrated. However, increasing life expectancy brings with it a number of challenges across government; for example, for health and social care and how we ensure adequate incomes in retirement. The provision of pensions involves financial, economic and longevity risks, all of which come with very significant costs.”
“I thank Members for the views that they expressed during the debate. I also thank, in particular, the Chair and members of the Committee for their help in getting to this stage. I assure Members that I will do all that I can to be of help as we make our way through the Bill, and I thank them for being understanding of the need for accelerated passage. <BR /> <BR />As alluded to by my colleague, I do not seek accelerated passage lightly. There may be a temptation on my part to try to get accelerated passage for another Bill that has had a bit of a difficulty, but I will leave it there. I am happy that we proceed.”
“I fully accept and agree that the use of the accelerated passage procedure should be the exception rather than the norm. Despite there not being a formal Committee Stage, there will, of course, be an opportunity for all Members of the House to make their views known and for the issues to be fully discussed during the Bill's passage through the Assembly. I invite the House to support the motion for accelerated passage.”
“My officials have also provided the Committee with written clarification on a number of points. So, although under accelerated passage there will be no formal Committee Stage, the Committee has already actively engaged with my officials on the proposals. <BR /> <BR />When I attended the Social Development Committee, I assured members that supporting accelerated passage for this Bill would not be seen as setting a precedent for all future Bills in this field. I will give the same commitment to the Assembly today: my Department will always seek to bring forward legislation in a timely manner to ensure that due process is followed and that the Committee is afforded its proper place and given adequate time to scrutinise a Bill clause by clause.”
“I appeared before the Committee for Social Development on 4 June to explain to the members, as required under Standing Order 42(3), why I am seeking accelerated passage for the Bill. I had a productive session with the Committee at that stage, and I thank the Committee Chair and members for recognising the need to expedite the process for the Bill and for their support in seeking Assembly approval for accelerated passage. <BR /> <BR />Turning to my obligation under Standing Order 42(4)(c), I stress that the use of the accelerated passage procedure is not something that I take lightly. I know that Committee members rightly take their scrutiny role seriously, and I recognise the importance of that role. The Committee has received several briefings from my officials and explored a number of issues.”
“It is vital that we do all that we can to support and encourage employers to embrace quality pension provision for employees here in Northern Ireland. It is vital that the changes here and in Great Britain dovetail from the same date to ensure that we do not make employers and schemes decide that it is too much trouble to run schemes for employees in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Additionally, the new regime will require numerous regulations to be in place well before April 2016 to ensure that adequate safeguards and protections are in place. Without accelerated passage, the short time frame from Royal Assent to operation will make this very challenging and add to the uncertainty facing schemes and employers.”
“Employers will also look for an early indication of how the changes could affect them. The ongoing roll-out of automatic enrolment means that every employer must automatically enrol workers into a workplace pension scheme. Employers who are seeking to establish an occupational pension scheme, perhaps for the first time, may decide that they cannot select certain schemes as there is a chance that they may not be compatible with Northern Ireland law. This could undermine the objectives of the Bill and potentially result in more Northern Ireland workers being enrolled into defined contribution schemes that offer no certainty over pension outcomes. <BR /> <BR />The overall aim of the Bill is simple: it is to help to provide safer and better incomes in retirement.”
“This timescale would result in significant uncertainty for the pensions industry, employers and scheme members as the legal position in Northern Ireland would not be settled until shortly before the proposed operational date. The industry needs a significant lead-in time to develop new pension products, and this requires certainty that any new products will be compatible with Northern Ireland law. For example, to operate most effectively, collective benefit schemes need to be able to create economies of scale. To help achieve this, it is imperative that collective benefit schemes are able to operate on a UK-wide basis.”
“Additionally, the Pensions Regulator, the Pensions Ombudsman and the Pension Protection Fund operate on a UK-wide basis. Therefore, it is highly desirable that the same regulatory framework be in place here to facilitate compliance and enforcement. <BR /> <BR />The Westminster Government intend that the new pension scheme definitions and the provision to allow schemes to offer collective benefits outlined in the 2015 Act will come fully into effect from April 2016. The intention is that the equivalent Northern Ireland provisions will come into operation at the same time. If accelerated passage is not granted, the best-case scenario is that the Bill could complete its legislative passage through the Assembly and receive Royal Assent towards the end of February 2016.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill establishes three mutually exclusive categories of scheme type based on the type of promise offered to members during the accumulation phase. It also provides for collective benefits where the scheme assets may be used in a way that pools risk across the membership. It also contains changes to existing pension legislation, mostly as a consequence of the new categories and collective benefits. <BR /> <BR />As required by Standing Order 42(4)(a) and (b), I will outline the reasons why I seek accelerated passage and the potential consequences of accelerated passage not being granted. Although pensions are a devolved matter, in effect there is a single pension system and regulatory regime across the United Kingdom. Many private pension schemes operating in Northern Ireland are UK-wide schemes.”
“Maybe I was sleeping, not the Justice Minister, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />The Pension Schemes Bill makes provision for Northern Ireland corresponding to provisions in the Westminster Pension Schemes Act 2015. The Bill aims to facilitate different models of private pension schemes that will provide better outcomes for members than the current defined contribution schemes and allow for greater risk sharing between members and scheme providers. The Bill therefore contains proposals to establish a new legislative framework for private pensions. I will outline the proposals in greater detail at Second Stage, and I look forward to the contributions on that occasion. However, it may be helpful if I briefly describe the main provisions.”
“I beg to introduce the Housing (Amendment) Bill [NIA 58/11-16], which is a Bill to make provision for the better sharing of information relating to empty homes or to anti-social behaviour; and to provide for the registration of certain loans as statutory charges.”
“The Pension Schemes Bill makes provision for Northern Ireland corresponding to provisions —”
“I beg to introduce the Pension Schemes Bill [NIA 54/11-16], which is a Bill to make provision about pension schemes, including provision designed to encourage arrangements that offer people different levels of certainty in retirement or that involve different ways of sharing or pooling risk.”