Mervyn Storey
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. It will be noted that there are those who cry much about the environment and purport to be the champions of the environment who did not have the courtesy to come to the House and be present when the statement was being made.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Clearly, there are some in the House who want to continue with the same old, same old and get the same outcomes at a huge cost to the public purse and to farms in Northern Ireland. The Minister is absolutely right: it is a scourge.”
“I am sure that the Minister will be aware, having listened to the Member who spoke before me, that the farmers of North Antrim will make an informed choice about who best supported farmers during this mandate of the Assembly.”
“A pilot scheme has been operating with the Education Authority, the PSNI and the South Eastern Health and Social Care Trust across 60 schools in the south Down area since September 2021 and was extended to a further 77 schools in the Newry and south Armagh areas at the start of February 2022.”
“As Chair of the Justice Committee, I am pleased to welcome the motion. It implements the provisions taken forward by the Committee in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 to establish an Operation Encompass model in Northern Ireland, which is, as the Minister has outlined, a police and early intervention pa…”
“We had our final meeting of that Committee this morning, and I want to place on the public record our appreciation and thanks to our Committee staff of for all the work that they have done.”
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“I will indicate what facilities have been provided at the temporary site in Antrim and their cost. <BR /> <BR />The Housing Executive operates a cooperation policy that, in summary, means that it provides basic amenities as a way of dealing with humane requirements. The amount spent at Rathenraw to date on the temporary provision of skips is £900; the amount for the temporary provision of a Portaloo is £2,845; while the provision of a water supply has cost £2,694. More recently, an access road has been provided to facilitate access for the family and the service providers at a cost of £26,000. Those costs were incurred for the period from 1 April 2014 to December 2015. Whilst not directly related to the provision of facilities, the costs for a temporary planning application at Rathenraw amount to a standard fee of £831.”
“That is another issue, and we will seek clarification on that from the relevant education authority. <BR /> <BR />The Housing Executive has assured me that it is continuing to investigate the availability of other suitable land or a more permanent site. The Housing Executive has told me that, given the short time available from the date of the court order to the family's eviction from the Northern Ireland Water land, it did not have adequate time to consult the community in the normal way. <BR /> <BR />I want to come to a question that was asked by Mr Clarke. I trust that I will be able to get through some of the points that Members have made. I assure Members who raised specific points that I will write to them if I run out of time. The Member asked about the cost.”
“That raises an issue that we need to revisit in what will happen following the debate. I want to revisit a number of points, and I have already alluded to some of those. I intend to write to the chief executive of the Housing Executive about the matter following the debate, and some of the comments that have been made in the House will be conveyed to him. The issue needs to be addressed. <BR /> <BR />I want to —”
“In the difficult circumstances, the lands at Rathenraw offered, in the opinion of the Housing Executive, the least worst short-term option; although, as many Members have commented, the site is not ideal.”
“The family's representatives indicated that the family needed to be in that area of north Belfast to meet the children's educational needs and the family's health needs. They also gave reasons why they could not occupy land in west Belfast. I understand that the Housing Executive also looked at other sites in the Antrim area, but the family came to the site in question. We will come to that in a moment. <BR /> <BR />The Housing Executive investigated what public land was available that could be considered to meet the immediate needs of the family. Given the short time available, the Housing Executive looked to its land bank first. A number of sites were explored, but all were unsuitable.”
“The Housing Executive followed good practice that recommends that, where a body owes a duty to secure accommodation but an appropriate site is not immediately available, the housing authority may need to provide an alternative temporary solution until a suitable site or some other suitable option becomes available. <BR /> <BR />It would be good to put on record the outcome of that hearing. As I said, at that hearing, the court gave an order to take possession on 31 March 2014, but the family indicated that the offers of accommodation on established Traveller sites were unsuitable. Sites that were offered at the time — this might address Mr Kinahan's point about what other sites were looked at — included sites in Strabane, Londonderry and Craigavon, as well as the Glen Road Heights in Belfast.”
“It is rarely easy, and there have been particular difficulties in this case that it would be helpful to set out briefly. <BR /> <BR />In 2009, the Irish Traveller family in question began unlawfully occupying land owned by Northern Ireland Water close to the M2 motorway in north Belfast. In line with its obligations, the Housing Executive invoked its Traveller cooperation policy that allows Irish Travellers to camp on a temporary basis and to have basic humanitarian amenities provided. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland Water sought to have the family removed from the land, and, at a hearing on 19 and 20 December 2013, the court gave an order for possession to take effect as of 31 March 2014. The Housing Executive investigated what existing established Traveller sites were available, but none was suitable.”
“In some cases, the applicant seeking planning approval will also engage with the local residents, but there is no legal requirement currently so to do. That said, my Department expects housing associations that are developing new social housing to consult residents in the vicinity of new social housing developments. My Department does not currently place similar requirements on the Housing Executive in relation to Traveller sites, and I want to revisit that issue for any future developments. <BR /> <BR />It is never easy to reconcile competing views and interests. In many ways, with the provision of Irish Traveller sites, the Housing Executive is in a difficult position in trying to balance its legal obligation to Travellers with the views of local communities.”
“There are currently four occupied serviced sites in Northern Ireland. Thirdly, transit sites. Some Travellers wish to remain nomadic, and their needs are provided for through transit sites. The progress made by the Housing Executive since 2003 has reduced the number of illegal encampments in Northern Ireland and improved the living conditions for the Travelling community. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to planning issues. Any temporary or permanent Traveller site is subject to the planning rules. The Department of the Environment planning group currently determines all planning applications and has the responsibility to consult residents near any planning application site, as well as the appropriate district council.”
“In providing accommodation for Travellers, the Housing Executive needs to balance the needs of the Travellers with the needs of the settled community. That point was raised by a number of Members, particularly in the concluding comments of Mrs Cameron around the way in which the settled community is dealt with or disadvantaged in how this can play out. <BR /> <BR />There are three main types of sites. First, group housing. Some Travellers want to live in conventional housing, either in existing social housing estates or in group housing schemes that cater for their desire to live together in extended family groups. Secondly, serviced sites. A number of Travellers have indicated a desire to live on serviced sites, which provide facilities for residing in static mobile home-type accommodation.”
“<BR /> <BR />Before getting into some of the specifics raised during the debate, it might be helpful if I set out what is required of the two main statutory agencies involved in this case: the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and the Department of the Environment planning group. <BR /> <BR />Until 2003, district councils were responsible for the provision of sites for the Travelling community. The system did not work particularly well, and in 2003 the law was amended to give the Housing Executive the legal obligation to provide such caravan sites as appear to it to be appropriate for the accommodation of caravans of the Irish Traveller community. The Housing Executive establishes the accommodation needs of Travellers through the Northern Ireland-wide comprehensive Traveller accommodation needs assessment.”
“I thank all those who have contributed to the debate and my colleague Mr Trevor Clarke for securing the Adjournment debate and the representation that he and his colleagues have made on this issue. I realise that I have a time constraint of 10 minutes, so I want to try to set some comments on the record about the detail of this. Then, I will address some of the specifics that have been raised by Members. Following on from the debate, we will then check the Hansard report. Any issues that we have not addressed, we will then follow up, so that we have a comprehensive response for Members in relation to this issue.”
“Just before Christmas, I saw a Simon Community billboard that said that we all need to remember that we are only one wage packet away from homelessness. Some people could be very dismissive of that, but I think that it is a telling reality. When I went to a particular location in this city and walked through the door, I saw someone from my town whom I never thought that I would see in such a set of circumstances. That was a very stark reminder to me of the issue that we face as a society.”
“Yes, there is clearly a vital role for those organisations and others. I visited an organisation — I will not name it — in the city just before Christmas that does an outstanding job in terms of the way it provides for people who present themselves as homeless. I intend to do more work with that organisation and others, and I assure the Member that the organisations that he referred to and others will continue to work with my Department, the Housing Executive and other statutory agencies, because this is an issue that we cannot ignore. It is an issue that will not go away and one that, collectively, we need to keep a focus on. <BR /> <BR />I repeat this, and I do not want Members to think that I do so because these are simply words: let us remember that we are dealing with real people here.”
“<BR /> <BR />I certainly believe that we need to continue to keep the focus on the issue of homelessness in a way that keeps people at the centre. Let us always remember that, when we use statistics and phrases like "homelessness", we are talking about real people who have particular, and sometimes very complex, issues. I do not underestimate the challenge that that creates for us all.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He is absolutely right: over the last number of days, there has been a particular focus. You will be aware of the event that was held in City Hall, where there was a call by the current mayor of the city for a coordinated approach. You will have seen the comments that were made in terms of the need that there is. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to give the Member the assurance that this is an issue of vital importance. It cannot be ignored. A huge amount of good work has been done by organisations to at least deal with the issue in an interim period. We will always have the challenge of how we deal with this issue in a long-term and very strategic way. The Housing Executive has its strategy. Strategies are all well and good; they have to be implemented and managed.”
“I thank the Member for the invitation. I am always glad to be on the road. It makes a change from being in the city. Since I came to office, I have spent a considerable amount of time in the city — east, west, north and south. I am planning to go to the south next week. I thank the Member for the invitation. <BR /> <BR />On a serious note in terms of Tullyally community centre, it is disappointing that it got to the point it had reached in terms of the condition of the building. I am well aware that there were huge challenges around legal issues and all that. I pay tribute to my staff in the north-west regeneration office for the hard work they did to get us to the point where all of this has been delivered and the money was secured. I look forward to going to the maiden city and to visit Tullyally.”
“It was disappointing that all it could find was £20,000. However, the work is now progressing. We will put back into the heart of Tullyally a centre that will give that community hope and a focal point where a wide variety of activities will take place. I was very encouraged by the work that was going on on the day that I visited Tullyally. I look forward to going back very soon when the work is completed and the building is up and is being used for the benefit of the community.”
“I thank the Member for his interest in this issue in his constituency. I also thank him for giving me the opportunity to visit the city of Londonderry some time ago and to see at first hand what was going on, not only in Tullyally but in other parts of the city. I know that the Member also has an interest in what goes on in the Fountain. I believe that we will have some good news regarding the Fountain. You will know that an announcement was made about an urban village, and my Department is going to work through that. <BR /> <BR />We have provided £200,000 to meet the majority of the costs of the refurbishment of the Tullyally community centre. They say that you should never look a gift horse in the mouth. However, the £200,000 was a substantial investment and a lot more than the city council contributed, which was £20,000.”
“— and I hope that that will contribute to a new model in the future that we can all agree to.”
“I would like to make progress in the coming weeks and months so that I would be in the position to give the Housing Executive a different model of delivery, not only in terms of new builds but in the way in which it generates money, so that it can be invested in the current stock. No one should be under any illusion about the huge maintenance challenge in the Housing Executive. <BR /> <BR />All Members are well aware of the complaints and the issues that Housing Executive tenants raise with us. I am keen to create a new future for the Housing Executive. To give the Member some sense of where the Housing Executive is at on the issue: it has now divided its operations into landlord function and regional function. I think that that should have happened a long, long time ago. So, the executive, I believe, is making progress on that —”
“I thank the Member for that. In terms of the reform programme that the Housing Executive is engaged in, I have met the board. Last week, I met the chief executive and the chair, and they are in the process of presenting us with an interim investment strategy and looking at the overall and long-term future of the Housing Executive. I am keen to listen to the plea, almost, that was made to me by the Housing Executive, which was that we give it new tools and structures that would enable it to do more in terms of investment. <BR /> <BR />The Housing Executive believes that it has not been able to do what others have been doing, and it has felt somewhat undermined by that, and I think that it has good reason to make that argument.”
“The reduction in my Department's budget has created a challenge, and I have concerns that it will be a challenge to meet that target. However, that will not deflect from the focus that we need to have on delivering on the targets that we have set. I am more interested in ensuring that we continue to focus on the delivery of good, affordable homes for the people in Northern Ireland and that we do it in a way that gives them confidence that we are moving in the right direction. In the next number of weeks, the Saville report will give us a stock condition survey of where we are, and when you look at those who are currently in Housing Executive properties, you will see that there is huge need for a huge investment, not only in new builds but in existing stock.”
“It will be a huge challenge for my Department to meet the target for social housing. Every Minister who has come to the House in recent days has used the same reason, which is the Budget.”
“<BR /> <BR />I remind the Member that the three components for identifying fuel poverty are still income, fuel prices and energy efficiency. It is not all down to the one particular element that the Member focused on.”
“I certainly believe that we should take every opportunity to ensure that the most vulnerable in our society get the advantage of falling prices. However, we also need to remember that we have a high dependency on one particular fuel. <BR /> <BR />You are not comparing like with like when you compare Northern Ireland with the rest of the United Kingdom, because many in the rest of the United Kingdom have access to gas, and have had for a long time. The Member will know that the concentration of the gas network in Northern Ireland is primarily around the city of Belfast, and we have not seen the possibility of that being made available to other parts of Northern Ireland. I would like that roll-out to be done quicker so that it could have an impact on fuel poverty and benefit consumers here.”
“I hope to be in a position to give some response on that very soon.”
“<BR /> <BR />The 2011 house condition survey stated that the rate of fuel poverty in Northern Ireland was 42%, compared with 15% in England. However, almost 70% of households in Northern Ireland rely on oil as their main source of heating. Although I welcome the fact that home heating oil costs are now at a five-year low, having reduced to 2009 levels, which will have a positive impact on low-income families, we wait to see whether costs will be further reduced. If we can encourage suppliers to continue to go down that road, we should do so, because it will certainly have an impact. <BR /> <BR />A piece of work that we are now doing is looking at the impact of the reduction in the price of home heating oil on the fuel poverty figures.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am glad that he thinks that I have such power over the suppliers of oil and gas that I can command them to reduce their prices. We have, though, seen a reduction in the price of home heating oil and some of the other forms of energy supply. <BR /> <BR />The Member referred to fuel poverty, and we should not underestimate what a huge issue that is. The three contributory factors to fuel poverty are income, fuel prices and energy efficiency. My Department has introduced the new affordable warmth scheme to improve the energy efficiency of those vulnerable households that are most at risk from fuel poverty, and it is primarily targeted at households with an income of less than £20,000.”
“I honestly think that we are not going to exclude any potential plan or scheme. However, there needs to be an evidence base to show that, by introducing a particular scheme, we will get the necessary outcome and buy-in from the sector, which will give it the confidence that progress can be made and that we will deliver a good product.”
“We need to use various tools to address the problem. I am always cautious not to put all our eggs in one basket. We need evidence that will lead to a decision based on an assurance that we are going to get an outcome. I have had discussions with the co-ownership people in Northern Ireland and intend to meet them very soon. <BR /> <BR />One of the big challenges that Northern Ireland will face in the next months is the future of our housing policy. The Member will be aware, as is the House, that a review is going on into where all that may take us. I have decisions to make that will structure a framework for the future delivery of good, affordable housing, not only in the public sector, for which we have a responsibility, but in ensuring that we create an environment for the private sector where progress can be made.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is an onus on all the organisations that I mentioned to learn the lessons of the past and not to replicate them. I do have concerns, particularly when I see the housing market in parts of the rest of the United Kingdom beginning to heat up again. It would not be long until we found ourselves back in a cycle where families were facing challenges. Caution is always a good policy and, on this one, should take us to a place where people recognise their responsibilities and realise that they need to display a responsible attitude so that we do not repeat the problems of the past.”
“Well, now, there is a question that could take some time to answer. It maybe follows on from the comments made by the Member opposite. It is neither possible nor perhaps appropriate for me to assign blame to a single sector or group of people. We came through a very difficult and challenging time. The housing market bubble from 2004 to 2007 and the subsequent downturn were a result of a number of factors. All those involved — I have made reference to them already, whether it be the mortgage lenders, the regulators, the banks or the borrowers — contributed to the current mortgage debt landscape. It is a challenge for us and something that we should not, in any way, underestimate. That is why we were keen to set up the task force and why the recommendations will be helpful.”
“Collectively, we will try to ensure that we put together a package based on the recommendations that is there to help and not hinder.”
“I thank the Member for his comments. The task force made 20 recommendations covering a broad range of issues. Many different sectors and organisations — including mortgage lenders, borrowers, the advice sector and government — have a role to play in improving the position for borrowers in mortgage arrears. <BR /> <BR />The task force work focused on the two core objectives of helping and encouraging people to help themselves and increasing the number of people who seek help early. When the report is published, I think that the Member will see that the focus is on ensuring that we use all possible mechanisms and means to help those in need, and that those who have a responsibility will not be allowed to, in any way, abdicate their responsibility.”
“The task force chair is scheduled to brief the Social Development Committee on the task force report on 12 February, and my Department will publish it shortly after that. Given this, it would be inappropriate for me to comment extensively on the task force’s recommendations until then. However, I can say that my Department takes the task force's recommendations very seriously and has begun to take forward some actions on a number of the recommendations. We are working on an action plan to implement, as soon as possible, the remainder that fall within the Department’s responsibilities. <BR /> <BR />Before Christmas, my Department also responded to a request from the Housing Rights Service, which runs the mortgage debt advice service, for additional funding of £15,000 this year to meet an increase in demand for that advice service.”
“I referred to this earlier. We have seen a number of ongoing judicial reviews. There seems to be a difference in elements of implementation in parts of the rest of the United Kingdom in how it is being played out. The Commons Select Committee is taking evidence, and there have been comments in recent days about sanctions. We need to keep the focus here on ensuring that our welfare system is constructed in such a way that it is not a barrier to work and society does not become dependent on having access to that welfare system, but it is there as a safety net for those in need. I sit comfortably with that. I also believe that in such a system, where necessary, sanctions are appropriate and should be used.”
“I assure the Member that I am doing all I can to ensure that people are informed and that my Department manages this process in a way that focuses on the people of Northern Ireland, to whom it will deliver a service.”
“It is vital that, when the Bill comes back to the House next week, Members see that every effort has been made to ensure two things: first, that we have parity with the rest of the United Kingdom in the framework of the legislation; and, secondly, that, following on from the Stormont House Agreement, we have put in place mitigating measures to deal with areas of concern. <BR /> <BR />Members need to remind themselves that there is a five party leaders' agreement in relation to this issue. A lot of work will have to be done in terms of the regulations. I can assure the Member that there are many hundreds of regulations on how we roll out what is a very complex and challenging process, in both legislation and timetable.”
“Each month, an independent market research company randomly selects claimants and seeks written feedback about the Atos assessment. Atos performance is also independently monitored and evaluated by the Social Security Agency health assessment, and Atos is currently providing a high standard of medical quality.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Atos provides medical support services under a contract with the Department for Social Development. The contract has a robust performance management regime and includes joint monthly, quarterly and annual performance review meetings. Atos does not make decisions on benefit entitlement. It provides professional medical advice to the Department's decision makers who use this and all the other available evidence to make a decision. <BR /> <BR />There are a number of contractual service levels, such as length of time to complete an assessment, quality of assessment, and claimant satisfaction. Where performance does not meet the contracted levels, financial penalties are imposed. The level of reported customer satisfaction is consistently above 90%.”
“The sanctions will be three months for the first failure, six months for a second failure, and 18 months for a third failure committed within 52 weeks of a previous failure that resulted in a 26-week sanction. Currently, sanctions for these types of failure are generally set on a case-by-case basis and can be between one and 26 weeks. The reform makes the consequences of failure clearer and stronger. I am well aware that I am running close to the end of my time, so I will give the Member the full answer on the higher level, the medium level and the lower level after the debate.”
“It might be useful to outline to the Member what proposals on benefit sanctions will be brought forward under the proposed Welfare Reform Bill. As Members know, the Bill will come back to the House next week. I am sure that you will all appreciate that I am looking forward to that. I want to ensure, as the deputy First Minister said previously, that we make progress on this issue; that is vital. <BR /> <BR />Under universal credit, for claimants who are subject to all work-related requirements, there will be three levels of sanction: higher, medium and lower. The higher level sanctions will be imposed on claimants who fail to comply with their most important labour market requirements, such as applying for a vacancy or accepting an offer of work.”
“It is something that we endeavour to keep ourselves apprised of on a day and daily basis.”
“I thank the Member. Obviously, we are in a process in which we are constantly viewing the issue in terms of what happens in the rest of the United Kingdom as far as the roll-out of welfare reform is concerned.”
“There are no targets, league tables or incentives used in determining whether individual claimants will have their benefits sanctioned. A decision to impose a sanction on a benefit claimant will be made by a decision-maker in the Social Security Agency and will be based on the relevant regulations and individual circumstances of the case. <BR /> <BR />I refer to the nine previous answers on the matter of sanctions, the latest one being in November 2014, which also state that there are no targets, league tables or incentives used in determining whether individual claimants will have their benefits sanctioned.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Housing Executive has advised me that it is not aware of any cases other than the ones in Crossgar and Great George's Street in which the ALP scheme was approved and an ALP payment was made and subsequently removed.”
“I thank the Member for her question. This is part of a good news story, but it is also one of the challenges of ALPs. There have been only two ALPs to date when a grant has been paid out but schemes have not progressed. One of those was with Trinity for the site referred to earlier at 19 Downpatrick Road, Crossgar. The other ALP was for a Helm site on Great George's Street in Belfast. A settlement plan has been put in place to ensure the full settlement of the grant paid. The figure for that is substantially more than for the site on the Downpatrick Road. The figure for the Great George's Street site will be £8·1 million by the end of 2016-17, which will involve the offsetting of the ALP grant paid against future schemes. To date, £1·54 million has been recovered in that scheme.”
“It would be only due diligence on my part to wait until we have a conclusion to the matter. The Housing Executive has been closely monitoring the scheme's progress and has been aware of issues surrounding it, such as planning issues. This has been going on for a considerable time, and the Housing Executive wanted to afford the then Trinity Housing Association every opportunity to achieve a successful planning outcome. However, we find ourselves in the position where the housing association will have to come back and put plans before the Housing Executive on how it will address the issue. When that happens, decisions can be made on what happens in the future.”
“I thank the Member for his supplementary. Obviously, I am keen to see a resolution of the issue. It is a substantial amount of money. I do not want to pre-empt anything that will happen at the Public Accounts Committee, but some interesting information will be conveyed at that meeting. <BR /> <BR />As for meeting the needs in the area that the Member referred to, I remain committed to ensuring that, when that need is identified and brought to the attention of my Department, the housing associations, the Housing Executive and, indeed, Co-ownership, which provides another means of ensuring that we deliver good housing to our communities, I will not be found wanting in ensuring that, when possible, that need is addressed.”