Carál Ní Chuilín
North Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“To continue the theme of undermining public confidence and public effectiveness, I ask you this, Minister: why do you and your DUP colleagues continue to block the 'good jobs' Bill, particularly the measures for parents whose babies require neonatal care and, indeed, other measures that will support workers who are struggling with the cos…”
“At the end of the day, guns were used to kill Catholics — Davy Payne; surface-to-air missiles in South Africa and Paris and then some. I will give the deputy First Minister another opportunity not to deflect but to condemn her party's involvement in Ulster Resistance and with the red berets that they wore.”
“I thank the Minister for that response. I have a close family relative who is in need of a SPiMS unit in an Irish-medium school but cannot access one in North Belfast at all. Apart from access in P4 and P5, they will have to go to an English-speaking school, even though Irish is their first language.”
“You mentioned some of the issues that are important: trade union representation, the banning of zero-hours contracts and employees being able to have their tips and service charges. Anyone who cannot get behind these proposals needs to be clear — concerns for some, and hiding behind the industry for others.”
“First Minister, I know that, recently, you were in Ardoyne for the sod cutting of the new £3·4 million purpose-built youth facility for Ardoyne Youth Enterprise. Further to your response to Brian Kingston, can you give us an update on that project and, indeed, any others?”
“I agree 100%, Linda. That is something that we all agree on. We met many people. The Bill was published and was based on the report of the truth recovery process.”
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“I thank John Blair for tabling the question. Does the First Minister agree that strengthened cooperation, particularly with Europe, in order to maximise opportunities for people here is the only way in which we will see tangible benefits?”
“No one knows what you are going in for, and it is none of their business. When you go into a GP surgery, you should not then have to walk round 12 doors to find out which one you go through. <BR /> <BR />That is why we want to have this debate today. We want to make sure that Clifton Street Surgery and all the other surgeries that have come to us have their ask for support through the full roll-out of multidisciplinary teams met. Those surgeries have 10,000 patients, who are our constituents. Over 50% of them are living in chronic pain, and over 50% of them will probably die well before their time, because of the economic, social and political circumstances in which they grew up. The best thing that we can do is equip our GPs with what they need in order to provide the best care for their patients and our constituents.”
“I know that it is the case across the board, but, compared with many other constituencies, North Belfast was decimated — absolutely decimated — by political conflict. That is now having an impact on third and fourth generations. I am seeing the impact of the conflict on grandparents, parents, grandchildren and now great-grandchildren. I am not medically trained, but I recognise trauma. Given that some people who go to a GP practice do not even realise that they are traumatised or are suffering from anxiety and stress, we need to give our GPs the time, the flexibility and the space to get help and support to where it is needed and to make sure that that is consistent at the point where people can get it. Right treatment, right time, right place. The best door to walk through without there being any stigma is that of a doctors' surgery.”
“Within that, you have GPs who, in the whole big Health bubble, are fighting their corner, and we are here today to fight their corner, too, particularly when it comes to dealing with mental health and the legacy of the conflict, which now affects four generations.”
“We are at the bottom of the ladder when compared with Scotland, Wales and England. That is not good enough. We need to get more money in order to make sure that money goes to front-line services, where it is needed, and that it is prioritised.”
“They are proactive in trying to get people the best support that they can. They almost act like social workers, as it is. We can claim some of that as well; we recognise part of that. As an elected representative, however, I want — as do the other representatives who are here in the Chamber — to fight our corner in North Belfast to make sure that we all get the best for GPs and patients. <BR /> <BR />The Minister will be well aware of the figures, so I will not recite them, but I will talk about the levels of complexity faced by some. It is no coincidence that, in areas of deprivation, there is a clear link between poverty and ill health. That link is well established and accepted. There is also a recognition, by all of us as political reps, that this place is underfunded compared with our level of need.”
“I very respectfully say to the Minister that I understand that there is a need to put money into the private sector in order to get waiting lists down for people who are in agony as they wait for operations. We all get that. However, that investment is front-loaded for cases that are almost non-problematic, even though the surgeries are quite severe and people are very stressed out about getting them. We need to remember that the investment needs to be front-loaded towards the point at which people need it: our health and social care system, which is free at the point of need and free at the point of delivery. We all cherish that. <BR /> <BR />We are lucky, in North Belfast, to work with amazing GPs who, for the most part, in their practices look not just at the person but at all their circumstances.”
“They have told me about the roll-out of the multidisciplinary team approach in practices. I made it my business to speak to one of the practices in West Belfast, and I was told about what is working. I was also told that, at the minute, everything is dependent on resources, but it is working well. When we look at a joined-up approach and ending silos — we are all familiar with that language — I like the idea that that would be a one-stop shop for people, most of whom would be able to walk through the door and back out again. In West Belfast, a lot of them walk in, get awful news and then get wrap-around service support, and we want to see that in North Belfast. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate the fact that resources are tight — we all do. I also appreciate that, when it comes to health, we have to fight our corner.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clifton Street is not the only surgery that has difficulties, but the difficulty for Clifton Street surgery is that it is prepared to develop a bigger site to encompass the services that are part of a multidisciplinary team, as well as any additional services, and land has been identified at Girdwood, but that land is currently held by the Minister for Communities. Minister, I would appreciate it if you could speak to the Minister for Communities about that. That is an example of a practice on a busy road in a busy area that is on an interface. It has patients from across the constituency and tries to help everybody, regardless, but it is not working. That is a practical example of something that could be done. <BR /> <BR />I am envious of some of our colleagues in other parts of Belfast, particularly in the west.”
“GPs often contact me, as an elected rep, about housing, letters of support for their patients to access surgery, getting proper community support for mental health services and supporting families through autism and ADHD medication. I am sure that it is the same for many Members. The difficulty in North Belfast is that none of us wants to say that we are in the most deprived ward on the island. Everyone's focus is on patients' needs, so that is a good place to start. The GPs' patients are our constituents. We all focus on that.”
“For anybody for who does not know, multidisciplinary teams are about the inclusion of a mental health nurse, a physio and a social worker in a busy practice. <BR /> <BR />Take one practice in Clifton Street as an example. It has 10,000 patients. It is in one of the most deprived areas of Belfast, in the North and maybe even on this island. It is referred to as a "deep end" practice, which is Health Department speak for its needing to be prioritised and resourced accordingly. The Minister is on the record about that, as, indeed, are many other Members. Look at BT15. If you live around Carlisle Circus, the New Lodge or the lower Shankill, your life expectancy is a lot less than it is if you live further up the Antrim Road, which is still within BT15. <BR /> <BR />Our GP practices have been at the coalface for a long time.”
“First, I thank the Business Committee for selecting this topic for an Adjournment debate. I am delighted to see the Minister here in what is his second week on the trot of dealing with issues relating to North Belfast. That is much appreciated. Also, some of the GPs from North Belfast are in the Public Gallery for the debate. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that if we were to put "GP" into a search of the Hansard public record, we would get thousands of hits. One thing that we are concerned about is that GP practices in North Belfast were supposed to have their multidisciplinary teams (MDTs) fully rolled out at the beginning of April, but that has not yet been done. Priority was given to mental health services, which we all support.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“In fact, they are not refusing; they cannot go into a dentist. Time is money. For them to go to a specialist service, people will have to start paying for it. Despite some great training that the dental staff have done, the parents who I have spoken to about that and many other issues ask me to raise it because, increasingly, a lot of children, due to neurodiversity, find it really difficult to go a dentist, and their families find it difficult to bring them. <BR /> <BR />Again, thank you, Phillip. I will read the Minister's response in Hansard.”
“If there is another way to do that, I am sure that the Minister will be rigorous in testing his officials to find ways to make that happen. I am sure that, like the rest of us, he has had many constituents contact him about the issue. However, I can assure you that, in the worst areas of multiple deprivation, poor oral health is related to poor diet and poverty and, unfortunately, this is a persistent issue. I appeal to the Minister to have another look. <BR /> <BR />Again, I offer apologies because I really must go, but I appreciate the Adjournment debate. I want to say one more thing. The Royal has been excellent, but there is a pathway there for children with special needs. In my constituency, I am noticing that more children who are on the autism spectrum and who have ADHD and pathological demand avoidance are refusing to attend.”
“The top three issues that we get contacted about are health, housing and education, and they are followed by jobs. Dentistry has been a persistently stubborn issue within health. Dentists did their best, as did every health professional, during the COVID pandemic and global crisis, but a lot of people are saying that, since COVID, deregistration and a lack of access to public dentistry have been particularly pronounced. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Adjournment debate. We all know that it is not easy for constituents to contact us, particularly when it is on something about which they are self-conscious, such as their teeth or appearance. The system in which dentistry is configured and the format for payments are well outdated. That is part of the reason why the ability of dentists to offer affordable public services has become so tight.”
“His parents are considering going to a credit union, again, to try to fund treatment for him. That is an absolute disgrace. I do not think that anybody wants that to happen on their watch. We have children growing up in poverty who have ill health and poor health outcomes, and dental decay will be added to the list of outcomes. <BR /> <BR />Our dentists have been very good. We know that they are running businesses, but they became dentists, primarily, to offer their support, services and expertise to a public health system. We are now seeing that, in North Belfast, dentistry and oral health services in general are not free at the point of need. The Minister needs to fess up to that. Those services are not free at the point of need for many people. <BR /> <BR />Phillip spoke about the displacement of some very good dentists.”
“I have often heard the Minister talk about being a champion to address inequalities in health. This is an example of where he needs to step up. I appreciate Phillip saying that he will go with him to speak to whoever. We all would, but, at the end of the day, if the Minister says that he is going to make it a priority, we need to see what that will look like. When is it going to happen? How is it going to happen? <BR /> <BR />In preparation for this, I spoke to constituents, particularly teenagers. This is not about cosmetic work: it is not about that. It is about people who are living in pain. One constituent explained to me that the constant use of antibiotics, as a result of asthma and other respiratory illnesses as a child, has meant that his teeth are discoloured. I could see it. He is self-conscious.”
“I thank Phillip Brett for bringing the Adjournment debate. The Minister will be glad to know that we will soon have another Adjournment debate in relation to North Belfast. It is on multidisciplinary teams — another issue that we have been raising. I also apologise, because I have an appointment in the constituency and will have to leave soon, but I wanted to contribute to the debate. <BR /> <BR />Why are we raising these issues in Adjournment debates? We are doing so because, as Phillip said, people are contacting us on a regular basis. It is no coincidence that the standard of oral health, particularly in children, in the North Belfast, West Belfast and Foyle constituencies is among some of the worst. The sobering figures have been persistent for many decades.”
“I question why the SIB is involved in its own review. That is certainly not in keeping with good governance. You said, however, that the SIB, along with TEO officials, is looking at the recommendations from the recent review. Can you provide any detail, even an indicative timeline, on when any new members can be recruited to the Strategic Investment Board?”
“It is not just children; it is adults. Recently, we met representatives of the Belfast Trust and raised this issue with them. I respectfully suggest that you, as the Minister with lead responsibility, get everyone together. As someone who champions equality in health, you must see that this is one of the greatest inequalities: people are having to pay for peace and quiet, and for medication that should be available. The professional bodies cannot do it. The strategic planning and performance group (SPPG) cannot do it. Will you get the Chief Medical Officer, the SPPG, the professional bodies and the trade unions together and talk to them about addressing the gap, which is getting wider as we speak?”
“Does the First Minister agree that, while there is disappointment over the British Prime Minister's announcement, the DUP's deliberate misrepresentations, peddling of inaccuracies about the reduction of electricity costs and erroneous claims about there being £81 million to spend show that, when it comes to finances, the current DUP leader, just like the previous leader, is not really across every jot and tittle?”
“The decision by the United States of America and Israel to launch an unprovoked attack on the people of Iran is a flagrant abuse of international law. Does the First Minister agree that those illegal war decisions have consequences not only for the people of Iran but, directly, for people here?”
“Will doing that result in a better, more respectful Chamber? No, it will not, because people will have bad manners regardless of how many first preference votes they get. I want to see substance over style. I want to see reforms for which we can all have the same energy and determination. I would like to see such discussions be had at the Assembly and Executive Review Committee rather than in superficial debates that are really about creating clickbait. Sin é.”
“I want to make sure — I guess that we all do — that, when you strip it all down, this place reflects the people who elect us. It is democratic that, when d'Hondt is used, it is a reflection of first preference votes. Name changes are not going to do that. It is about first preference votes, and about people getting positions based on what the electorate returns. However, if that is the case, we need to look at everything across the board.”
“— you absolutely do not have dominance when it comes to impact. That needs to stop. <BR /> <BR />At the end of the day, I would have much preferred the motion to be about a bill of rights. Was it? Absolutely not. Mike Nesbitt was a representative on the Ad Hoc Committee. He told people as part of those presentations, "We're getting there" and, "We're nearly there" and then walked into the Chamber and vetoed it. It is not about sectarian vetoes; it is about ending vetoes that look, feel, walk and talk as though they are sectarian. You can jump up and down all you want, but, if that is what it looks like, that is what it is. <BR /> <BR />I also agree on the issue of the designation as "Other". I am glad that someone has come in to support you, Paula. You were left on your own for almost the whole debate, which does not really say a lot.”
“OK. There were lots of issues in the Good Friday Agreement that impacted on people.”
“Of course we do, but you are talking about positions that, as we all know, are equal in law. Michelle referred to herself as "joint First Minister". Matthew, when you get around to knocking doors and talking to people, this issue will come up. When a nationalist/republican held the position of First Minister for the first time ever, what did the SDLP do? It jumped to change that. That is what will stick in people's heads. <BR /> <BR />Jonathan, I have to laugh. What age were you when the Good Friday Agreement was signed? Seven? However, you said that, under your watch, the RUC would not have been changed and that something else would not have been changed. You sound ridiculous at times.”
“I will, as long as you are brief, Matthew.”
“However, when I then heard the debate, I realised what it was about: it is all bluff. Pat mentioned the fact that the massive amount of work that we have to do in the AERC requires not just focus but substance. The SDLP may have a suite of reforms, but that suite of reforms needs to be brought to and discussed in that Committee. <BR /> <BR />Parts of the SDLP's narrative during the debate have been quite contradictory. It recognises that the positions are equal in law and practice, but, yet and all, it feels that there needs to be a change. I was a bit disappointed to hear the positions of First Minister and deputy First Minister being referred to as high chairs and double buggies. That was quite patronising, to be frank. If that is the level of contribution, maybe you would be better just sticking here.”
“I will start where Pat started. I have listened to the whole debate, and it is definitely my opinion that the motion is just about tinkering. It is about denial. It is the first time that there has been a nationalist First Minister, and it is about making sure that that does not happen again, because of what they describe as an "election mantra". I am also a member of the AERC. To repeat the point that Pat, Sinead and others have made, we have received evidence from well-respected and renowned academics, who have all stated that changing the titles would not make a difference because, in law, the two positions have the same authority. The issue of reform should be debated here, but we still have loads of work to do in the AERC, so I was a bit surprised when I saw the motion's coming forward.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Significant awareness has been raised of the ending violence against women and girls strategy. Will the deputy First Minister outline what work is going on through the change fund and at a community level to raise awareness of the strategy among men and boys?”
“I thank the Minister for his response. I am keen to find out what negotiations you had with the British Treasury that resulted in the reserve claim. If you were to listen to some DUP Members, you would think that you had absolutely no role in it.”
“for that answer. I have been to many fleadha across Ireland. They are amazing, and, hopefully, the place will be buzzing. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you referred to the fact that Tourism NI now has responsibility for promoting the benefits of the fleadh. Will you assure us that local businesses and residents will see benefits from the great opportunity that is coming to our shores?”
“Minister, given your previous commitments to addressing health inequalities, what are you going to say to the children and young people, their families, their advocates, their GPs and children and adolescent mental health services (CAMHS) about your, effectively, discriminating against those children and young people and their ability to access to a clinical trial? This decision of yours — or maybe it is Jon Burrows's decision — is absolutely disgraceful.”
“Junior Minister, you have already answered part of my question in your answer to Connie Egan. In relation to the second delivery plan and the insight, can you give an update on engagement you have had that has shaped your thinking for the next phase of the work to end the scourge of violence against women and girls in all our communities?”
“Minister, will you provide an update on women's entrepreneurship programmes that may be part of the NSMC arrangements?”
“That was absolutely horrendous, and it was done across the board. <BR /> <BR />Church leaders need to take steps, and so do we. I want to see and talk to the victims. I want us to get to the next stage of this. I am glad that a meeting has been offered, but I hope that it is not a one-off, because those people deserve respect and for us to act with integrity. Above all else, they need to be believed.”
“Robin Swann promised that records from throughout the adoption process would be kept consistently, and that did not happen. Legislation was brought through on that. I hope that the legislation on the mother-and-baby homes will address some of the concerns of the victims and survivors of clerical abuse and that that will be rectified. <BR /> <BR />The scourge is not just historical; it is recent. We hear, on television and radio, about case after case of people being abused by people in the Catholic Church, as well as allegations regarding the Presbyterian Church and others. As part of the deliberations at another Committee, I heard about the abuse that some young gay men faced through so-called conversion therapy, done in the name of faith. That needs to be included in this as well.”
“I was not on the old OFMDFM Committee when the Inquiry into HIA Bill was being dealt with, but I have spoken to many victims — most of whom were in mother-and-baby institutions, and some of whom suffered clerical abuse — about the fact that this is not about just their trauma but the trauma that was passed on to their families. <BR /> <BR />Gerry raised a point about records. I have raised that constantly throughout the process. I declare that I was a the keeper of the records when I was the Minister in the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure and then the Department for Communities. There were inconsistencies in the records kept by the religious orders and other institutions, including social services and the health and social care trusts. The PSNI has been consistent and forthcoming.”
“I appreciate the clarification, but that is not what I heard. The Member is right: for people who are going through the worst trauma in their life to respond to a call, be part of a report and then not hear anything back is not good enough. I agree with that. <BR /> <BR />The work that has gone on up to now has been on historical institutional abuse (HIA) and the Inquiry (Mother and Baby Institutions, Magdalene Laundries and Workhouses) and Redress Scheme Bill. The Committee Stage is still in progress, and the Committee hopes to conclude its report this week. There have been problems up to now, but, by and large, we have all approached the issue with compassion and sensitivity. Communication was key throughout.”
“We will support the Alliance motion and the People Before Profit amendment. I agree with everything that everyone has said, apart from that said by Sinéad McLaughlin and Justin McNulty, because I know that Aisling Reilly and Michelle O'Neill are not shameful. I want to put that on the record. I understand the difficulty and frustration that survivors are feeling about not getting any communication. I cannot stand over that, but to say that people are sitting on their hands and are shameful is not fair.”
“I will raise that, because it is a Programme for Government commitment that has been there for a long time. I have to say, Minister, that your arrogance is unreal. Where is the LGBTQIA+ strategy? You did not mention that. Is there a reason for your not mentioning it? Can we ensure that you adhere to your ministerial responsibility to adhere to section 75 and act regardless of creed, colour or race? What is your response to that?”
“I thank the Minister for his response. He will know that I am from an inner-city community in North Belfast. It is no coincidence that many residents who live on congested roads suffer from respiratory diseases. Will the Minister, along with his colleague in the Infrastructure Department, consider the addition of some plants and foliage to the motorway system to reduce the awful pollutants that the residents face daily?”
“First Minister, you answered a concern that I had. Do you agree that the Executive need to look at opportunities to try to end the scourge of AI tools such as Grok that are being used to degrade women and girls on social media?”
“I am talking about groups working together to organise and coordinate the bringing of food, sleeping bags and tents to the people who need that comfort the most. If it is a test of how we, as an Assembly, look after our most vulnerable citizens, we are, frankly, failing. I will contact Members, and I look forward to them responding positively.”
“<BR /> <BR />Statutory bodies do their best, but I see the bulk and the weight being carried by the voluntary sector. I am talking about my experience.”
“Church- and faith-based and voluntary groups are using donations to buy B&B accommodation. They are providing the services for which the Housing Executive has a statutory responsibility, and it is not working. <BR /> <BR />I am organising a meeting in Belfast city centre. I would like an MLA from each party to come and meet those who provide services to the homeless to work out what we can do better. On Saturday night, there was frost on the ground. I spoke to a woman who is four months pregnant who was sleeping in a car park. We got her registered with a GP and that, but she said that she did not feel safe in some of the temporary emergency shelters that she had been offered, which were completely inappropriate for women. There are particular challenges for women who sleep on the streets.”
“I welcome Mr Wilson to the Assembly and pay tribute to William Irwin. William was a gentleman. I wish you all a happy new year. <BR /> <BR />Like Kellie, I received the correspondence from Paul McCusker, as, in fact, we all did. I have gone out on outreach a few times with the People's Kitchen and have met a lot of homeless people who have no option — seriously, none — other than to live on our streets. I also went to meet pastor Brian Madden on Saturday night with my colleague Deirdre Hargey. They all do exemplary work. There is a problem, which is that any projects with "homeless" in them are doing good work in their own right but, collectively, they are not working together for people who are really vulnerable. Independently and separately, Gerry Kelly and I went out before Christmas to see the arrangements that had been put in place.”