Carál Ní Chuilín
North Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“To continue the theme of undermining public confidence and public effectiveness, I ask you this, Minister: why do you and your DUP colleagues continue to block the 'good jobs' Bill, particularly the measures for parents whose babies require neonatal care and, indeed, other measures that will support workers who are struggling with the cos…”
“At the end of the day, guns were used to kill Catholics — Davy Payne; surface-to-air missiles in South Africa and Paris and then some. I will give the deputy First Minister another opportunity not to deflect but to condemn her party's involvement in Ulster Resistance and with the red berets that they wore.”
“I thank the Minister for that response. I have a close family relative who is in need of a SPiMS unit in an Irish-medium school but cannot access one in North Belfast at all. Apart from access in P4 and P5, they will have to go to an English-speaking school, even though Irish is their first language.”
“You mentioned some of the issues that are important: trade union representation, the banning of zero-hours contracts and employees being able to have their tips and service charges. Anyone who cannot get behind these proposals needs to be clear — concerns for some, and hiding behind the industry for others.”
“First Minister, I know that, recently, you were in Ardoyne for the sod cutting of the new £3·4 million purpose-built youth facility for Ardoyne Youth Enterprise. Further to your response to Brian Kingston, can you give us an update on that project and, indeed, any others?”
“I agree 100%, Linda. That is something that we all agree on. We met many people. The Bill was published and was based on the report of the truth recovery process.”
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“I thank Kellie for proposing the motion, and I thank Paula Bradley, Colm Gildernew, Pat Catney, Robbie Butler, Jonathan Buckley, Robin Newton, who made an intervention, Fra McCann, Joanne Bunting, Harry Harvey and, in advance, Paula Bradshaw. It is really important, because it would surprise you — I think that Jonathan made the point — that, often enough, not all your questions are relevant. I see that as a Minister, so I am just telling you that now, right?”
“<BR /> <BR />The devolved social security legislation powers are now with us, so it is in my gift to look at this, and I am saying that I am actively looking at it. When we have found a remedy or are in the process of going through a remedy, I will inform my Executive colleagues, the Communities Committee and, in turn, the Assembly. It will mean that you will need to change legislation and regulations, but that is what we are here for, so I think that we are all up for that. <BR /> <BR />Some Members mentioned the assessment, and I want to put it on record that Deirdre Hargey had already started a process of bringing that assessment in-house, but people are doing the assessments, too. I think that most Members who spoke mentioned that.”
“The Scottish model, as people refer to it, is based on a clinical judgement, but there is something that Scotland has not done, which I have been looking for, wishing for and hoping for. What is Scotland replacing the rule with? We are all looking at that. <BR /> <BR />We all know that this rule is not working — everyone who spoke said that — and where there is good practice and good recommendations, we all need to listen to them. I want to let you know that that is exactly what I am doing. Walter Rader's independent review of PIP — the assessment process — is sobering reading for anyone for many reasons, but, if anything, it asks us to work collectively to change the status quo.”
“When people are already on poverty lines, that is exacerbated when someone is dying or is terminally ill. It adds to the grief because you are worried about things, and, despite your best efforts, you cannot put your focus where it needs to be. <BR /> <BR />I am also acutely aware — you will all see this in your APG — of the role of hospices, social workers, family support workers and neighbourhood renewal workers. They are often the last people to whom a family talks about that two-page form. They are the ones who hold hands and try to cushion the family's shock when they are told that someone has six months or less to live. I have been in that situation as an MLA and as a daughter, and it is absolutely horrible. <BR /> <BR />The reference to Scotland has been really interesting.”
“You will be aware that there was no remedy in that case as such, other than the judge's comments, which are very significant and important. I cannot go into what that potential remedy might be because the process is still listed in court and is still going through the court system, but it is clear to me, if evidence is needed, that our Assembly and all the parties here are committed to helping the most vulnerable, and people who are terminally ill and dying are our most vulnerable. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly all-party group on terminal illness, which Joanne chairs, is also a welcome development, because it raises awareness of issues. We have heard them before. I remember that, in my days on the Health Committee, we heard about car-parking charges, the debt incurred by families and how neighbours clubbed together.”
“As recently as yesterday, I spoke to a Minister from DWP about the matter. I assure the Assembly that my Department has been really proactive on the review and on what needs to happen. I also pay tribute to Marie Curie, the Motor Neurone Disease Association, the hospice and all the people who have been lobbying and campaigning for the change for years. More importantly, I pay tribute to the families, who have made it a rare issue that has united the House across the board. I also share the frustration that some articulated today that the review has not yet been published. To say that it is well overdue is an understatement. <BR /> <BR />A few Members mentioned the McAlinden case, and I do not want to avoid it in case people think that I am avoiding the issue.”
“I thank all the Members who spoke in the debate, and I thank Paula in advance of her winding-up speech. <BR /> <BR />It is an important motion for everyone. I do not know anyone who has not been impacted by cancer or does not know someone who has been impacted by terminal illness, be that family members, constituents or neighbours. It is debilitating even watching those people and their carers, let alone having to look after loved ones who are impacted by it. The issue is a priority for me. I give the House that assurance. I support the motion. <BR /> <BR />Not long ago, I met representatives from Marie Curie, the Motor Neurone Disease Association, Advice NI and the Law Centre. I have also spoken to families and medical practitioners about the issue. To say that their evidence and testimony were compelling is an understatement.”
“Very briefly, I thank the Committee for its support. I think that everyone realises and recognises that the additional protections are necessary, so I commend the motion to the House.”
“They enable the pension protection fund to take on the scheme trustees' or managers' role as a creditor during the period that a moratorium is in force in specified circumstances. However, the scheme trustees or managers are not completely excluded, as it is recognised that they also play an important role in protecting members' interests to provide the appropriate balance. Before the pension protection fund participates in a decision-making process to the exclusion of the scheme trustees or managers, it is required to consult with them. <BR /> <BR />As I said from the outset, it is somewhat technical, but I hope that Members appreciate why these regulations are necessary.”
“A moratorium is not included as an insolvency event. Therefore, the normal safeguards within the legislation are not engaged. <BR /> <BR />These regulations provide specific protection for pension schemes and, by extension, the pension protection fund during a moratorium pursuant to the Insolvency (Northern Ireland) Order 1989. They provide the pension protection fund with creditors' rights in certain specified circumstances, when a company in a limited liability partnership, relevant cooperative society or community benefit society obtains a moratorium from creditor action under the new process. The regulations ensure that a moratorium does not leave pension schemes and the pension protection fund without appropriate protections in place.”
“Under pensions law, during the assessment period the rights of trustees or managers of the scheme in relation to any debt due to them by the employer are exercisable by the pension protection fund. In light of COVID-19, the Corporate Insolvency and Governance Act 2020 made changes to the corporate insolvency regime and created new processes, including a moratorium, which offer breathing space and flexibility to give companies an opportunity to explore rescue options free from creditor action. Under pensions legislation, similar corporate rescue processes are treated as insolvency events. When such an event occurs to an employer with an eligible occupational pension scheme, the pension protection fund assesses the scheme and, amongst other things, takes over the scheme's trustees' or managers' role as a creditor of the sponsoring employer.”
“The rule that we are considering today is, of course, very technical, so it will be helpful to provide a bit of background. The pension protection fund provides compensation for members of eligible occupational pension schemes where the sponsoring employer is insolvent and the scheme has insufficient assets to pay benefits at the fund compensation levels. If a qualifying insolvency event occurs in relation to an employer with a pension scheme eligible for protection by the pension protection fund, the scheme will enter an assessment period to enable the pension protection fund to assess whether or not the scheme is eligible to transfer into the fund.”
“This is simply about the power to make regulations on the basis of no deal so that people are not left with no child benefit or benefits. Sin é. The rest of it is about free movement. That has nothing to do with me, and it has nothing to do with this either, although I agree with your whole issue. <BR /> <BR />In relation to everything else that was said, I will faithfully, as I think I have done till now, try to get a proper response to any queries that have been raised. I want to be on the record challenging some of the things that were said as well as giving information. With that, I commend the motion to the House.”
“It is all well and good for people to get up and say what they would and would not do, most of which I agree with, but at least I am honest. So be honest and be honest with integrity about why you want this not to happen. I understand. It is anti-Brexit, so I am with you on that, but the rest is guff, and you know that it is guff. <BR /> <BR />There should be an opportunity to bring bespoke legislation, but that has slipped because of COVID and everything else. I agree with you on this: there needs to be better social security legislation here that we have the ability to scrutinise in order to protect people who are worse off. That should be a raison d'être for us all. That is what we all agree on. <BR /> <BR />I am not going to go into who said what.”
“I suppose that it was inevitable that, once the LCM was brought forward, people would use it as an opportunity to talk about their opposition to Brexit. I have no issue with that. What you all need to be clear about is that this LCM is to ensure that benefits get paid in the event of a no deal. I know that you know that and that you are making politics. That is fine; that is what the Chamber is for. Let us at least be honest. Giving powers to Westminster in the first place was done so that you could bring half a billion pounds of protections to mitigate the worst impacts of the Tory Government. Let us be honest about that, too. <BR /> <BR />We are bringing powers back, and if I had an opportunity, I would not be doing this, but, frankly, folks, I am not about to cut people off at the knees over rhetoric.”
“I have weighed up carefully the arguments for and against these proposals, and, on balance, I have decided to move them today.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am also aware that it is anticipated that there will be very significant demands across Departments for Bills to be progressed through the Assembly before the end of the current mandate, so retaining these provisions in the Westminster Bill would help to relieve some of the expected pressure on the legislative programme. <BR /> <BR />I know that Members will have seen the briefing provided by the Human Rights Commission in relation to the Westminster Bill. The commission has made a number of recommendations that, in my opinion, are well outside my remit, but I have written to the British Home Office urging the Westminster Government to give the Human Rights Commission recommendations serious consideration.”
“<BR /> <BR />If the motion were not to pass today, it is anticipated that the British Government would move to amendments to remove the power of the Department here to make regulations under clause 5 of the Bill. That means that we would have no power to modify the retained social security coordination regulations in the event of no agreement on social security coordination being reached between Britain and the EU and no power to make consequential amendments to our social security law. The only option to obtain such a power would be to bring a separate Bill to the Assembly. There would be no power for the Assembly to amend the EU social security coordination regulations until such a Bill had completed its passage.”
“However, the negotiations are ongoing, and, until the negotiations are complete and a deal is agreed, we will not know the precise scope and content of the new agreement. If a deal is not agreed and there is no reciprocal agreement with the EU, retaining the power in clause 5 for a Department here to amend the coordination regulations may give us some flexibility over the limited devolved issues in the coordination regulations. Furthermore, clause 5 provides a power to make consequential amendments — for example, to address inoperabilities or inconsistencies that may arise from the modification of the retained social security coordination regulations. This provides a power to ensure the continued operation of domestic social security legislation that refers to, or is related to, the social security coordination regulations.”
“<BR /> <BR />I understand that the aim of the British Government remains to seek a new agreement with the EU, and, in the event of a negotiated deal, it now seems that the British Government process is to replace the retained social security coordination regulations with a new reciprocal agreement. Reciprocal agreements are international treaties and fall within the ambit of international relations. As Members are aware, international relations are excepted matters. In the event of a deal, it seems, therefore, that the British Government propose to revoke the retained social security coordination regulations. The revocation would also apply across Britain under the ambit of excepted matters, including international relations.”
“<BR /> <BR />The British Government signed an agreement with the Irish Government in February 2019 that protects the social security rights of all Irish and British citizens moving within the common travel area. Freedom of movement is an excepted matter, and the current social security coordination regulations operate in the context of freedom of movement within the EU. The regulations are a somewhat complex web of excepted and devolved issues, including the determination of the state to which contributions should be paid; competency for the awards of benefits; aggregation of contributions and the periods of residence for benefit entitlement; and provisions for some benefits such as child benefit, which are the responsibility of HMRC.”
“The legislation in question is regulation EC No 883/2004 on the coordination of social security systems and its associated implementation regulation, EC No 987/2009; regulation EEC No 1408/71 on the application of social security schemes to employed persons, to self-employed persons and to members of their family moving within the community and its associated implementation regulation, EEC No 574/72; and regulation EC No 859/2003, extending regulation EEC No 1408/71 to nationals of non-EU member countries. Any changes to the coordination rules would apply only to people moving between the EU and Britain after the end of the transition period.”
“However, the Bill also makes provision for the Secretary of State, the Treasury or a Department here, acting jointly, to make regulations to modify — for example, amend, revoke or repeal — retained EU law relating to social security coordination. <BR /> <BR />Social security coordination is part of the ongoing negotiations with the EU on future relations.”
“The primary focus of the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill is to end the EU's rules on free movement of persons in respect of Britain at the end of the transition period on 31 December 2020. These are currently retained in British law by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. This will mean that EEA nationals not resident in Britain at the end of the transition period, and their family members, will require permission to enter and remain in Britain under the Immigration Act 1971. <BR /> <BR />Immigration and freedom of movement within the EEA are excepted matters under schedule 2 to the Northern Ireland Act 1998 and are the responsibility of the Home Office.”
“Yes, I have met the Minister of Finance to discuss subregional stadia. We are all looking at guesstimates, and until we bottom out the cost for Casement Park, we will be dealing with speculation. We are looking at addenda and finalising the business case for subregional stadia as well because things have changed since the first one was done. To be honest with the Member, do not assume that an overrun for Casement Park will automatically translate to the remainder going to soccer. I have not heard anything like that at all.”
“If the figure is x amount, that will not automatically be transferred over to soccer. That is not my understanding at all.”
“I am going to disappoint the Member and say that it is not automatic that that happens. Many big capital projects that we have dealt with have overrun on spending, and that is not good enough. I understand what he is saying, but it is not automatic.”
“I am looking at ring-fencing and other policy changes to try to increase supply to reduce demand for social housing, as well as looking at specific targets for affordability, particularly under co-ownership, and at how our FTC can be better spent to ensure that there are more affordable homes.”
“I will commit to look at the areas of highest demand. We need to ensure that supply is increased to reduce that demand as best we can.”
“Just to repeat what I said to Colin McGrath, and I can feel Fra's eyes burning into the back of Colin McGrath's head because he stole his question,”
“I will look at implementing procedures that will target areas in most need, and at a new policy to address the miserable experience of people on the housing list for five years-plus. In addition, Foyle and north and west Belfast, the worst-performing areas, will be looked at as a matter of priority.”
“The Member will not be surprised to hear me say that I do not have those on me. The targets for social housing are far too low. They are miserable, to be frank. Affordability is also an issue. FTC has gone into co-ownership to support people in getting access to that, because there has been an underspend in FTC. Unless we do something radical about the targets for social housing, we are going to fail to meet them every year,”
“That is exactly what I will do because I am afraid of giving an inaccurate answer. I will find that out and write to you.”
“I will tell you something that you already know: south Belfast and Coleraine have the highest densities of HMOs across the North. That is because of the universities, but it is still not good enough. <BR /> <BR />We need to look at planning and the concentration of HMOs in one area. That was the biggest issue that I was asked to look at until recently. Paula Bradshaw raised the issue of south Belfast, and the Holylands in particular. If there is a need to change legislation and regulations, I am going to have to have a look at that. There are too many gaps in the way in which HMOs have been given a licence, and then the regulations, and the planning decision, and we need to bridge them.”
“Well, if I know the head of museums, they will ensure that they seek out any opportunity to benefit from any scheme, regardless of which Department it comes from. Let me reassure the Member that museums are certainly on the list for the COVID recovery programme for culture, arts and heritage. They play a vital role. They are all struggling and need our support. I am actively looking to see what support I can give our museums, right across the board.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am going to ask for an update on visitor numbers because, although the museums opened up, and there is a lot of loyalty to museums, particularly the Ulster Museum, certainly numbers for all attractions, museums and even Titanic Belfast have reduced due to COVID. I will get an update for the Member and send it to him.”
“I absolutely will. I will take it upon myself to write to the Member as soon as I get an update on that issue.”
“I am aware of some delays. I know that there have been procurement challenges that have set back companies that were awarded tenders for maintenance work. I am aware that the threshold is very low now, so it is easier to make a legal challenge on procurement grounds, so that is slowing the programme down, on top of the global pandemic. I have asked the same question as the Member, and I am waiting for a report on how that might be much better advanced.”
“I want to give the commitment to you and everyone else, inside and outside the Chamber, that Casement Park is an absolute priority for me. As soon as the decision is made, one way or the other — I have action plans for both — hopefully we will get a favourable decision so that we can get on with the construction of Casement Park.”
“I am assuming that Sinéad and Liz went for coffee and that is why the two of them are apologising for being late. <BR /> <BR />The update is that Casement Park is currently waiting for planning permission, which the Minister for Infrastructure and her officials are carefully considering. I met with the Ulster council of the GAA very recently. I also met the MP for the area and, indeed, his colleagues. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that everything that can be done will be done. Obviously, there will be an increase in cost, and we will find out what that is fairly soon. Hopefully, the planning decision will be made for Casement Park, and we can get on with developing the last of the three stadia for Belfast.”
“Hostels are in receipt of vast sums of public money so they need to meet the very best standards. Your last point is something that I have been committed to looking at as an MLA. It is unfair and unacceptable that people leaving their home as a result of domestic violence are not considered intimidated. It is completely unacceptable that people who are fleeing their homes are joining a very long queue, and people who are not genuinely being intimidated are, effectively, jumping that queue due to so-called threats from groups. That is a fact. We had a debate in the House, brought, I think, by Fra McCann. I think it is wrong, so I am committed — not to ending intimidation points — to looking at another way. It is a really dreadful experience. However, the verification of any claim of intimidation needs to be a lot stronger than it is.”
“I thank the Member for her question and it is a timely one. I am currently looking at the consultation that has gone out on the allocation of social housing points. Very soon, I hope to bring proposals to my Executive colleagues, to my Committee colleagues, sorry, to the Committee — I am not on the Committee anymore; I have attachment problems — and then to the House.”
“The answer is yes. Under New Decade, New Approach, there are two aspects around corporation tax and getting rid of historical debt, for want of a better term. It is not just to put the Housing Executive on a better footing to look after maintenance, but also to get them into a better position to borrow money and allow them to build. <BR /> <BR />I owe Mark Durkan the Member for Foyle an apology. At the last question time, I said that Foyle did not have the worst housing figures, but they actually do; followed by North Belfast, then West Belfast and the figures go down from there. Every constituency is dealing with unacceptable levels of housing stress.”
“I work with a number of housing associations and they have been encouraged to try to identify land that is available on which to build. We are also going through an exercise, on behalf of the Executive, in which we are looking at areas of surplus public land on which potential housing developments can be brought forward.”
“My Department, as the Member will know, will continue to work very closely with Sport NI. If their inbox is anything like mine, particularly from groups in grassroots areas that have written to me asking for support, they will have no doubt as to where the needs are. In fairness, this is an extension of the scheme on the basis of responding to the demand that is out there.”
“I thank the Member for her question. To date, the sports hardship fund has awarded over £1 million worth of grants to 500 grassroots sports clubs and organisations to help them cover essential costs, including maintaining their facilities during lockdown and paying critical overheads. Those clubs have not been in a position to complete their seasons. I have asked officials to explore extending the criteria for funding to include sports clubs that are now experiencing financial hardship due to increased operating costs, costs associated with facility hire and cleaning regimes. As a result of that, I am pleased to announce that the sports hardship fund will reopen on 1 October.”
“"Rural revitalisation" is hard to say at times. I have struggled with it myself. Yes, the assurance is there: Minister Poots and I want the programme to be accessible to people. It needs to meet their needs. They need to go through due diligence along with local councils. Local councils have worked with those people for a number of years and consistency, in a good way, is important. If any MLA feels that there has been a negative experience in their constituency, just let me know. I cannot promise or guarantee that I can fix it, but I need to know what it is.”
“I say to the Member and, indeed, the rest of the Assembly that the criteria need to be as flexible and open as possible. There should be no impediments or barriers that prevent people from getting access to much-needed support. That requires working with economic development units in each of the council areas. We are hoping to have additional money; not just from my Department and Minister Poots — even Minister Mallon has expressed an interest around green and blue environment projects and also to look at sustainable travel. My responsibility is for populations of 5,000 and over, and Minister Poots's is for populations of under 5,000. That covers an awful lot. We know that, up to now, small amounts of money have made a massive difference. Councils need to work with local businesses to ensure that that support is on the ground.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I launched the COVID-19 recovery revitalisation programme, along with Minister Poots, on 27 July 2020. Letters of offer for tranche 1 of the programme were issued to all councils later that day. Payments totalling almost £6 million for tranche 1 have now been made to councils to provide much-needed support to local businesses as they recover and adapt to the impact of COVID-19. <BR /> <BR />Around £5 million of that funding was provided by my Department, with £1 million from DAERA, to extend the programme into rural towns and villages. The programme was designed to provide maximum flexibility, enabling councils to work with local stakeholders to tailor their schemes to best meet the needs of their areas.”
“I am certainly looking to finalise the potential schemes this week, talking to Executive colleagues next week with a view to it going straight out into some of the arm's-length bodies (ALBs), and then looking at ways in which we can try to open up applications to others who may never have gone to ALBs before. The Member knows this, but it is worth mentioning that we have also got museums and libraries involved in this. It is crucial that not only do we keep doors open right across the piece but that, in particular, we support the groups that have emerged that are doing brilliant work to keep people mentally well and physically fit, providing enjoyment and entertainment. A lot of those people are young people from marginalised and deprived areas. They need our support.”