Doug Beattie
Upper Bann · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I absolutely accept what the Minister said earlier, which is that she would not have been able to get such a Bill out of the Executive. That is the sentence that you would have heard from me, Minister, had you waited a minute. I absolutely accept that that is the case, and I think that we all do.”
“Just a minute. Minister, I guess that I disagree with you, because I too did my work. I accept that I do not have the resources that you and your Department have, but I sat with the Public Prosecution Service and talked through this very thing, and it said that it was workable.”
“The Director of Public Prosecutions would look at the seriousness of the offence — death by dangerous driving, risk of harm to the public, serial arson, assault, sexual behaviour that is a danger to the public — and he would also look at the best interests of the child, because we have not got away from diversionary measures here.”
“Had James Bulger been murdered by two nine-year-olds, we would probably be having a discussion about the minimum age of criminal responsibility being nine, such was the anger in 1993 when that horrendous crime took place. All the ages are arbitrary, and we need to deal with that.”
“That raises the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 12. It is not what some people, who want it to be 14, want; it is not what others, who want it to stay at 10, want; but I believe that 12 is right. Why do I presume that a child can commit a criminal offence at 12 years of age?”
“In essence, however, that amendment would raise the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 14, apart from in the case of the offences in that closed list. It has been said many times, and I will not repeat what has been said, but the closed list does not make sense to me either.”
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“This is a good motion and debate. There are some great points coming out, and no doubt we will hear some more really good points from people who are far more learned than I am. <BR /> <BR />Going out of lane slightly, I have seen human slavery and trafficking at its starting point. I was in Kosovo in 1999 as part of Operation Agricola while ethnic cleansing and criminal gangs were rife. I went to a car showroom just outside the town of Prizren with members of the Italian Carabinieri.”
“Although it might be in County Down, it is as much mine as it is anybody else's.”
“The bill for that should be picked up by those who made the mistake. Those Departments should pick up the bill and they should put it back to the way that it was. There should be no sleight of hand or telling tales, and no one should say that they cannot do it; they should just get it back to the way that it was. I am hoping that a report from the planners in ABC Council, which will come out at the end of this month, will make that recommendation. <BR /> <BR />I was due to meet the Minister on the site, because she has shown a real interest in the matter, but the weather was pretty awful and we did not manage it. I hope that she can apply some sort of pressure to make sure that we get the outcome that we want, because this is our shared history, shared heritage, on a shared site.”
“A mistake was made by the Department for Infrastructure, the then DOE, and it was compounded by the historical environment division in DFC. I am not blaming anybody; it happened, but it needs to be fixed. It could have been fixed, because DFI could have done so under section 75 of the planning regulations. They could have made them put it back to the way that it was, but they did not, and the situation has rolled on. <BR /> <BR />What is the debate about? It is about what should be important to us, which is understanding our history. We often talk about a shared history. If we go back to Neolithic times or to the Bronze Age or to medieval times, we were one people; that is our history, but it is being systematically destroyed. I am in no doubt whatsoever that Knock Iveagh should be returned to the way that it was.”
“It will be my constituents who will foot the bill. People say, "They will not really; the money will come from somewhere else". They will not foot the bill directly but may do so indirectly. That would be unfair.”
“If, at the end of this month, the Department for Infrastructure says that it is going to take enforcement action, there is likely to be a cost, and that cost will be to Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council. Therefore, it will be a cost to my constituents. I have spoken to the planners at the council, and we could be talking about hundreds of thousands of pounds, if not millions.”
“Although everyone has said that they got it wrong, nothing has been done to replace it. That is another example. Maybe people will not have heard of these sites. The Ballintaggart megalith in County Armagh, which is known locally as the giant grave, was lifted up, removed from the site and taken to the Ulster Museum, where it was set up. When the museum wanted more space, it was removed and is now lying in a heap in storage somewhere. That is our heritage being lost. I have a genuine interest in our heritage — our Irish heritage. It is important; it is important to me. Therefore, we need to fix what we got wrong. It is as simple as that: fix what we got wrong. <BR /> <BR />I have another issue that I have informed the other Upper Bann MLAs about.”
“It is not a deliberate failure, but it is a failure in the two Departments. We have been fighting for this ever since. If it was not for the Friends of Knock Iveagh — I know that a lot of Members will have engaged with the group, and with Anne Harper as part of it — this probably would not have come to light. It certainly would not have come to me. She has brought it to light and has been fighting a long campaign to have this decision reversed. <BR /> <BR />This is in South Down, not Upper Bann, so why am I interested? My interest comes in two forms, if I may. First, decisions like this are not unusual. The destruction of our heritage is not unusual. I just need to look at the rath and grange in Waringstown that were destroyed 20 years ago following a flawed planning application and permission.”
“Instead of Knock Iveagh being somewhere that we can take our young people to look at, view and understand our history, what we have is a development that is destroying the site. <BR /> <BR />That is where the difficulty arises, because we are now caught between two Departments and a council. The planning permissions part of the DOE gave permission. I apologise if this sounds like a sort of planning seminar. Once part of the DOE had given permission for it to placed there, and DFC's historic environment division had said, "No, it should not be", you would think that it would be really quite simple. All the historic environment division has to do is say, "No, you cannot do that", revoke the permission and take it away before it was ever erected, but nobody did. Nobody enforced anything. I guess that it is a failure by two Departments.”
“In 2017, the Historic Monuments Council advised DFI that the planning permission should be revoked. However, it was not. Since 2017, there has been further digging on the site. A further 2 kilometres of earthworks. An access road has been put on the site. A wind turbine and, I believe, a transmitting mast have been built, with a number of boxes that service the two of them. That has happened even though Knock Iveagh is a historic site of regional importance to Ireland as a whole and can help us to understand our history, from the Neolithic period to the Bronze Age and the medieval age. Our planning process seriously failed Knock Iveagh, to the stage that we have now built a wind turbine on top of the site.”
“Therefore, it would be absolutely wrong of me to point the finger at any Minister and say, "You got this wrong". It is a long-term issue that we have to deal with. As I will explain at the end, Knock Iveagh is not alone. Thanks for that intervention, Johnny, but I have now lost my place.”
“I will probably get into that. Let us be absolutely clear: it was done under the old structure. It was when it was the Department of the Environment, not DFI. There have probably been a few other name changes. Everything that happened afterwards happened as we moved to the new structure, however. It is probably one of the reasons that I am here talking about it today, and I will elaborate on that slightly.”
“Everybody is therefore quite clear that Knock Iveagh, just outside Rathfriland, is an extremely important historic site. That is pretty clear. Yet, despite it being a nationally important and scheduled site, permission was given for a wind turbine to be erected on it in 2013, about 100 metres from the cairn. That was done without an archaeological study or any engagement with the historic environment division. That should have happened as part of the planning process, but it did not. The division was cut out of that absolutely and completely. No environmental impact assessment (EIA) was done. In 2017, the Historic Monuments Council (HMC), which is a statutory adviser to the historic environment division — bear with me — wrote to DFI to ask for the planning permission to be revoked.”
“<BR /> <BR />Knock Iveagh cairn sits on the summit of Knock Iveagh ridge. The cairn is a scheduled historic monument, pursuant to the Historic Monuments and Archaeological Objects (Northern Ireland) Order 1995. Some limited excavation of the site in the 1950s recorded it as being from the Neolithic period, between 4000 BC and 3000 BC. It was a burial site and an inauguration site for Irish kings in the medieval period: the Magennis family, I believe. It is a resource for understanding the Neolithic period, the Bronze Age and the Iron Age in Ireland. You will hear the historic environment division (HED) come up a bit in my speech. If you do not know, it is part of the Department for Communities. The HED said that the cairn was of national importance in understanding the Neolithic period in Ireland.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will not take 15 minutes, I hope, but I will try to get the point across. At the end, I will explain why I have expanded Upper Bann into South Down so that Members can understand my rationale. This is my third Adjournment debate in three weeks. Each time, I cross my fingers that it will not be delayed. I guess that my luck ran out tonight. It is an important debate, nevertheless, given that we are talking about our historic heritage and the issues around that, and there are some issues. I thank the Minister for being here. I know how busy you are. We have corresponded on the issue, so it is nothing new to you. I am not here to try, in any shape or form, to apportion blame to anyone. What I am trying to do is discuss this so that we get an understanding of the issues with Knock Iveagh, just outside Rathfriland.”
“<BR /> <BR />Enforcement is a tool, but, increasingly, we will have to look at using enforcement as a tool to make sure that people adhere to the guidance and legislation. I see that some Ministers have stepped up to the mark, put their names forward and forced through those unpopular enforcement measures; some Ministers have cowered away and hidden from it. The message is simple: wash your hands, keep your distance, wear a mask, adhere to the guidance, and let us get out of this COVID environment so that we do not have to talk about it in 2021.”
“Soft-play areas, such as Peter Pan's Neverland in Portadown, are among the most comprehensive and safe ways for kids to develop, so it is right that we look to see how we can open up places like soft-play areas. However, at the same time, we have to impose restrictions in areas such as the Derry and Strabane council area. It is not complicated. We just need to understand what is happening in the COVID environment that we live in. I have said this before: we can unpick the regulations, every day of the week, by picking a scenario and developing that scenario so that it will unpick the regulations, but that will not help anybody. The reality is that, if we do not start to adhere to the legislation and guidance in 2020, we will still be talking about it in 2021, and nobody wants to see that.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will now make a few comments as an Ulster Unionist Party MLA. COVID-19 remains unpredictable. I am giving this statement, here and now, instead of the Chair of the Committee because of COVID and because he is self-isolating. That just shows you that it is in every walk of life, and I wish Colin all the very best. However, there are some in our society who are simply not taking it seriously. Like the proverbial drunk driver, they will do nothing until there is a fatality, and when there is a fatality, it is far too late. <BR /> <BR />We talk about easing restrictions, as we are now, in soft-play areas. It is important to ease some of those restrictions. Soft-play areas are not just places for children to socialise with other children; such play aids physical and mental development and their well-being as they mature.”
“There has been much debate about amendments to the COVID-19 regulations and the impact that the easing of restrictions has on the R rate, and, more recently, we have seen the introduction of tougher restrictions in an effort to bring the R rate down and maximise public health. The Committee has discussed issues around the lifting of restrictions but does not have the responsibility for scrutinising the legislation. The statutory responsibility for that lies with the Health Committee, and I am sure that the Chair will provide detailed commentary in due course. In summary, the Committee for the Executive Office welcomes the lifting of restrictions when the time is right but encourages, in the strongest terms, compliance with those restrictions that remain in place to help in the fight against the spread of the virus.”
“A death in custody is unusual; two deaths in 10 days is extremely rare. Our thoughts are with the families of those who have died. Does the Minister think that it was acceptable that the Assembly and Justice Committee found out about the second death via social media and whistle-blowers, especially in light of the fact that I had raised the issue of chronic understaffing of night custody officers?”
“I thank the Ministers for their statement on an extremely important issue on which we have to move forward, and I thank them for the detail in that statement, particularly about where we have progressed those cases in regard to redress. It is important that we know that it is moving forward. <BR /> <BR />I note that Fiona Ryan will take over on 14 December, yet correspondence with Brendan McAllister said that he is leaving in mid-October. Therefore, will the Ministers address that issue and confirm that the new COSICA will try to re-engage with all the HIA groups, given the disengagement of some?”
“The motion is a blunt instrument. It looks at the issue through primary colours; I accept that. There are far more issues to be debated, and I am sure that they will be raised here. I hope that they will be, because we need that balance. All victims of crime, from the lowest level of crime to the highest, need somebody to fight their corner. When something goes wrong or is not right, victims need someone to liaise with the Justice Minister or other agencies to put it right. That is the important part. I hope that the Assembly will join me in supporting the motion. It is not contentious. We all know victims out there. We have all dealt with victims, and we all want to do our best for them. A victims of crime commissioner is the first step in doing that.”
“<BR /> <BR />I note that two amendments to the motion were submitted by the Alliance Party and the DUP. I would have been minded to support both amendments, because they added value to the motion and addressed the issue at hand. I hope that the Justice Minister will announce something substantive today and that she is minded to appoint a victims of crime commissioner and possibly link into the legislation going through Westminster, if not in the long term, then certainly in the short term, because the mandate is so short. If she is unable to do that, I hope that an interim commissioner can be appointed until the post is put on a statutory footing. It is clear that, until we start looking at some of the issues through the eyes of victims, we will continually fail them, if not directly, then indirectly.”
“<BR /> <BR />The charity Victim Support NI does a fantastic job — I know that Members will mention it — but it needs support. Who is or could be liaising with Alex Chalk MP about new legislation? Who could be informing the Domestic Abuse and Family Proceedings Bill from a victims' perspective? I commend the Chair, the Deputy Chair and members of the Justice Committee for the work that they have done in scrutinising the Domestic Abuse and Family Proceedings Bill, which has been truly fantastic. The issue of a domestic abuse commissioner has been raised on multiple occasions. Who could feed into the sentencing review and consultation or the new hate legislation on behalf of victims? The answer is a dedicated victims of crime commissioner whose sole remit is to ensure support for victims of crime. That is their job; that is what they do.”
“The report also concluded that there was too much emphasis on process, which hindered meaningful engagement with victims and the impact that the crime was having on them and their families. <BR /> <BR />A Victim Charter is in place, but who champions it? Who makes sure that it is up to date and fit for purpose? New legislation to support victims of crime and their families was announced in the Queen's Speech in December 2019. That new legislation is being driven forward now by Alex Chalk MP, with the Victims' Commissioner for England and Wales promoting the voice of the victim to inform that legislation. Who is doing something similar for Northern Ireland? Who is promoting the voice of the victim at the highest level?”
“He still needs that today; he has not stopped being a victim. The perpetrator will be released after four and a half years behind bars for the killing of Enda, and Mr Dolan will have to deal with that again. <BR /> <BR />Those are the issues that we need to look at. How do we provide those people with whole-life support? In July this year, the Criminal Justice Inspection released a report on victims and witnesses that highlighted the fact that many victims do not understand their rights and do not know how to access support. There was the obligatory recommendation that the police and the victim and witness care unit need more training. Of course they need more training, because training and development are endless.”
“They had to fight to understand what had happened to their family members and for any information that they could get as to who was responsible. To their credit, they do not hold Mr McEntee solely responsible for the murder of their loved ones. <BR /> <BR />We can all highlight victims who have not had the support that they deserve. Every one of us could do that, ranging from people who have been burgled to people who have fallen victim to a scam and other issues. Peter Dolan's son Enda, who was just 18 years old, was killed by a drug- and drink-driver. Those were horrific, horrendous circumstances, and many Members have spoken to Peter Dolan and will know that. Peter needed help when his son was killed, and he needed support during the court case. He needed understanding as he fought for a tougher sentence for the perpetrator.”
“His family lost their parents — Michael and Marjorie Cawdery — to a brutal murder carried out by a mental health patient. They are not alone in this. The murderer, Thomas Scott McEntee, was a mental health patient, and the failure to deal with that issue directly led to the murders. From speaking to Charles Little, it was clear that he had to go through a lot of the processes in dealing with the murder of his family members alone. They had to walk the path alone. They had to move out of their home, as it was now a crime scene, and they had no help in moving out.”
“Only through the prism of the victim can we understand what they are going through. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly will know that I have raised the issue on multiple occasions: on the Floor, in debate, in questions for oral and written answer and at the Justice Committee. The motion is not a vanity project or a hobby horse subject. It has been born out of listening to victims and trying to understand what they are going through as the investigation progresses, as a perpetrator is found or, indeed, not found, in the court case and in what happens next. All those things happen after the crime takes place, and the victim has to deal with them on a rolling basis. <BR /> <BR />In 2017, I spoke to Charles Little. I know that the Minister has spoken to Charles.”
“For every crime, there is a victim. There is no such thing as a victimless crime. Therefore, in our society, we have thousands of victims who suffer physically, mentally and emotionally. They are victims of antisocial behaviour, scams, burglaries, assaults, muggings, fraud, domestic abuse, drink- and drug-driving and murder. Of course, there are underlying reasons for crime: socio-economic reasons such as poverty, disadvantage and disengagement, drug and alcohol abuse, our divided society and mental health issues. Addressing the causes of crime is fundamental to creating fewer victims. I am happy for those to be pointed out during the debate to allow for balance and understanding. However, the motion is about looking at crime through the eyes of the victim.”
“I hope that we can do that, Minister, and I hope that we can drive that forward. There are solutions there, and the people of Lurgan have brought those solutions forward. What we have to do now is listen to them.”
“I went to Craigavon Senior High School, the only two-year school in the whole of the United Kingdom. There is no other two-year school in the whole of the United Kingdom. I went to it, and I was disenfranchised when I went there. I did not feel that I had an identity, and I left school at 16 with absolutely no educational qualifications. I do not mention that as a badge of honour; I still do not have them. It is a failing as much on my part as anything else, but part of that is because it was a school for only two years. We need imaginative thinking, but what is going on on the Lurgan campus of Craigavon Senior High School is just not right. Those pupils deserve better, and that is done not by destroying a system but by being imaginative in creating something better for them.”
“The pupils have to eat their lunch between parked cars — eat their lunch between parked cars. They share some of the facilities with the Southern Regional College, so the kids have to move around that campus escorted by teachers. There is oversupervision. When they go to PT, they have to leave and walk to other facilities dressed in their PT kit. It creates stress, fright and vulnerability for the pupils. It is truly awful, and it needs to be addressed. It can be addressed with some imaginative thinking, while retaining the Dickson plan. If people want the Dickson plan, they can have it and we can retain it, but imaginative thinking can improve the lot of those kids. To leave it for another 12 months just would not be right. <BR /> <BR />I am a product of a failed education system to a degree.”
“Not being able to develop the development proposals is knocking back the imagination that we want our principals and teachers to have to help our schools. I can say the same about Portadown Integrated Nursery and Primary School, and I can talk about Clounagh Junior High School, the Hart Memorial Primary School and Banbridge Academy. <BR /> <BR />There are many issues, but you will know, Minister, that I have really hammered the drum about the Lurgan campus of Craigavon Senior High School, and you will know that I will not apologise for doing so. I do not think that the children there are being given the service they deserve. There was a critical review of that site in 2016 — four years ago. It has no playing fields, so children wishing to do after-school activities have to be bussed into Portadown.”
“We should never have got to that last-minute hitch, but I believe that it has been overcome by a degree of pragmatic thinking, in that it will go before the planning committee next month and any outstanding issues and caveats can be added to the planning approval. That is good news for St Ronan's, and I commend them for taking a strong, visionary look at what they were trying to produce for their pupils and for the maintained sector in that area. <BR /> <BR />Of course, I also know St John the Baptist's College well. I worked closely with Noella when they went through that change of name from Drumcree College to St John the Baptist's, and Noella had a real vision of what she was trying to achieve.”
“I thank Dolores for bringing this forward; I really do. I am glad, and I hope that we all speak with the same voice because what we want is a school estate for Upper Bann that is good for all our pupils no matter their academic ability. <BR /> <BR />I went to St Ronan's last week and met the principal and some of the governors and some of the teachers. It is an absolutely fantastic school, with 1,600 hundred pupils and 200 staff over two sites. They have had their planning application in since 2018, and we have now got to the stage where we are having to squeeze it in by October because of bats settling in one of the sites that they need to demolish.”
“I thank the Minister for being here. It is nice to be in the Chamber with the five Upper Bann MLAs to talk about something that is important to us all; it really is. I sometimes wish that the five of us could get together. John, you could maybe buy the beer, if you are up for it. <BR /> <BR />We can all talk about our pet projects, and we all have them, whether we realise it or not. They may be about the controlled sector, the maintained sector, the selective sector and the non-selective sector and the primary and the post-primary sector. There are issues across Upper Bann. Some of them are normal and are issues that you would expect to see as property gets older. Some of them are issues that have been generated when there was no requirement to generate them. The maintenance budget and how it is delivered could be looked at and fixed.”
“I now believe that the Minister was asked to chair that working group. Therefore, the candour and openness of the Minister in answering my question were not in keeping with the seven principles of public life, as in openness. <BR /> <BR />Could I ask the Speaker to please rule on whether the Minister should be invited back to the Assembly and reflect on that answer?”
“On a point of order. Last Monday, I had a question for urgent oral answer for the Justice Minister about the Holylands. My subsequent question was about the COVID enforcement group. <BR /> <BR />The Minister's answer was:”
“I agree that enforcement is not always the answer, but it is an important tool. I am disheartened to see that only one Minister, the Minister of Health, actually attends that working group. Obviously, it is chaired by the junior Ministers. I want to follow up on a question from Pam Cameron. Was the Minister of Justice invited, by the Ministers or in writing, to chair the strategic working group on enforcement?”
“Minister, it is not easy. They are difficult decisions, and I commend all those who are making the difficult decisions and showing that moral courage. I urge people to lean into those decisions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Earlier today, a previous Justice Minister, Claire Sugden, asked a simple question: why can we not approve a legislative consent motion to adopt the legislation that is bound for England and Wales? Why not? Why not show purpose and strong justice? Why not put something in place? If it means a whole-life sentence — do you know what? — it has to be a whole-life sentence. It does not happen very often, but it can happen. I believe that when everybody in the Assembly thinks about it, they will think that it is right that, if you kill somebody and bury their body and do not divulge where the body is, you should not be allowed out of prison.”
“Until Charlotte's murderer goes before the Parole Commissioners, they will not know whether he will get parole. They will not know. They have to suffer that for 16 years. If he is denied parole, they have to wait and suffer for another two years before he is up again for parole. It is inhumane — absolutely inhumane. We should be clear in telling him, "If you do not divulge where the body of your victim is, you will not get parole". <BR /> <BR />I said that the family live in hope. We all know the limitations of any legislation. Of course we do. However, let us not snuff out the family's hope, because it is all that they and other people have. I will support the motion, but I cannot support the amendment because it snuffs out hope, and there is no requirement for it.”
“<BR /> <BR />It did not work for Vanessa George, who was released after 10 years, having abused children and taken pictures, and then refused to divulge who the children were that she abused. In later life, they may well recall what went on, but she is out walking the streets knowing who those children are. <BR /> <BR />The purpose of sentencing is punishment, protection of the public, deterrents, rehabilitation and reparation. Sometimes we forget about deterrents. I have said it time and time again: what is wrong with an all-life sentence? It is in the sentencing review, it can be considered, and we can do it. This is one reason why I think that we should do it. Here is the reality for Charlotte Murray's family: they will suffer a living death every single day for the next 16 years.”
“Their concern is that any murderer who refuses to divulge the whereabouts of the victim can receive parole and walk our streets still knowing where that victim's body is and not be held to account. <BR /> <BR />The parole board and the Parole Commissioners for Northern Ireland can, when the parolee goes before them, say that not divulging the whereabouts of the victim is a reason for parole to be denied. It is an aggravating factor. However, there is no guarantee because that was not the guarantee for Helen McCourt. There was delay after delay, and her murderer was allowed out and is walking the streets now. Not only that, but Helen's mother had to pay him £40,000 because she took a legal case to try and keep him in prison. It is absolutely disgraceful. It is shocking, and we do not want to go down that road.”
“First of all, I thank Mr Easton for bringing the motion to the Assembly. I know that he has put a lot of time into it and into supporting the family. I met the families of Charlotte Murray and Lisa Dorrian for the first time last week. I sat opposite Charlotte's twin sister, and I saw in the family's faces the absolute devastation that they are going through day after day not knowing where their sister is. <BR /> <BR />Mr Dorrian, the father of Lisa, sat with the family in support, knowing that he has not even reached the first step to getting any form of closure or justice, but he sat there and he gave support all out of hope. Hope is a word that I will use a lot. They sat with hope that we as an Assembly and as legislators could do something to address this great injustice. They gripped on to hope that we would do something.”
“In other words, just because you can, does not mean you should. Therefore, does the First Minister believe that the other Executive party leaders undermined the Executive's healthcare message by travelling to Dublin to do a meeting that could have been done on Zoom?”
“Minister, I often travel under those electronic road signs on the motorway that say:”
“I thank the Minister for giving us the statement. This is as bad as it gets. Without a doubt, our thoughts have to be with the victims who will have been re-traumatised by the serious error. The statement is littered with mention of victims being first, but the reality is that the PPS knew about it in early 2019, your Department knew about it in February 2020, you were told in June 2020 and yet victims were not told until September, only days before the media were told. They were not even given the opportunity to come to terms with what happened. Those delays are due to a slow, labouring justice system that is not fit for purpose. Is the reality not that the PPS and DOJ ensured that they had minimised reputational damage before releasing it and putting victims first?”
“It cannot happen again, and I certainly do want to see it happen anywhere else in Northern Ireland. However, I also want to make sure that the people who work in Craigavon Area Hospital have confidence in the hospital and its leadership. I also want to make sure that people have confidence in using the facilities. What I do not want is sick people staying away. <BR /> <BR />In trying to find out what went on and why we had this awful tragic outbreak, I do not want to throw the baby out with the bath water. I want to make sure that we nurture those who work there and acknowledge what they have done for us previously and what they are doing for now. I want us to address the issues through an investigation. First and foremost, however, I want to see the outbreak contained and stopped in order to save lives.”