Doug Beattie
Upper Bann · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I absolutely accept what the Minister said earlier, which is that she would not have been able to get such a Bill out of the Executive. That is the sentence that you would have heard from me, Minister, had you waited a minute. I absolutely accept that that is the case, and I think that we all do.”
“Just a minute. Minister, I guess that I disagree with you, because I too did my work. I accept that I do not have the resources that you and your Department have, but I sat with the Public Prosecution Service and talked through this very thing, and it said that it was workable.”
“The Director of Public Prosecutions would look at the seriousness of the offence — death by dangerous driving, risk of harm to the public, serial arson, assault, sexual behaviour that is a danger to the public — and he would also look at the best interests of the child, because we have not got away from diversionary measures here.”
“Had James Bulger been murdered by two nine-year-olds, we would probably be having a discussion about the minimum age of criminal responsibility being nine, such was the anger in 1993 when that horrendous crime took place. All the ages are arbitrary, and we need to deal with that.”
“That raises the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 12. It is not what some people, who want it to be 14, want; it is not what others, who want it to stay at 10, want; but I believe that 12 is right. Why do I presume that a child can commit a criminal offence at 12 years of age?”
“In essence, however, that amendment would raise the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 14, apart from in the case of the offences in that closed list. It has been said many times, and I will not repeat what has been said, but the closed list does not make sense to me either.”
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“I find this an incredibly difficult debate; I find it disturbing. As a father and a grandfather, I look at my daughter and grandchildren and imagine them being abused, and it really makes my blood boil and my stomach churn. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the motion. What is there not to support? Everything in it must be supported. Nobody will thank me for saying this — I already see the eyes rolling and the heads shaking, and I hear the sucking of teeth — but Sinn Féin's words do not match its actions. If Sinn Féin had started the debate by saying, "Do you know what? We got this wrong in the past. We're sorry, but let's move forward", I would understand it. The treatment of Máiría Cahill and Paudie McGahon was truly disgraceful, and they have to acknowledge that.”
“I thank the Justice Minister for her detailed statement. It is most welcome, as is the cross-border cooperation from policing to mental health. How does the National Crime Agency (NCA) build into that strategic intelligence sharing, particularly in the Executive's action plan for tackling paramilitary activity, criminality and organised crime?”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank Mr Lynch again for tabling the motion. I am glad that we have the opportunity to debate it on the Floor. I hope that people listen to the debate and then make up their minds, rather than walk through a Lobby because it is the easy thing to do. I hope that they think about it. What we are proposing, as well as an action plan, timetable, and key priorities, is that all our Departments and Ministers be held to account. This does not sit just with the First and deputy First Ministers: it sits with the Ministers of Finance, of Education and of Health. They need to come together to come up with a strategy and set the targets. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge the motion, but I move the Ulster Unionist Party amendment.”
“I stand and I answer. You have asked me something that is absolutely obvious. Of course, I accept that. If you had allowed me, I would have gone on to say that Peter Robinson apologised for what he said — absolutely. I was going to say that there was no inference that he meant what he said. It was a slip of the tongue, but we all need to be concerned by that slip. <BR /> <BR />Look at the Sinn Féin motion in Derry City and Strabane District Council calling for a ban on Israeli goods. I understand what Sinn Féin is trying to do, although I do not agree; but that raises the stakes for the Jewish community here. We have to be careful of our words. There is no point in saying, "We need to support our BME communities", when you allow your councillors to table a motion that alienates some of the very people we are here to protect.”
“It goes on to talk about sexuality, but I will not get into that. <BR /> <BR />We have something that we really need to do as political representatives. We need to watch our words and give a firm commitment to people in the BME community that we will support them. If you remember, a while back, Peter Robinson said that he would be happy to send members of the Muslim community to the shop. Fair enough, he apologised, and I absolutely believe that it was a slip of the tongue —”
“<BR /> <BR />The European Commission Against Racism and Intolerance calls on:”
“<BR /> <BR />There are other groups that we have to look at as well, such as the Roma gypsies or the Irish Travellers. They are no different and are all in need of help as well. With all those groups, we really have to look at how we can address measures to support them, including education, employment, healthcare and accommodation. In the case of Irish Travellers, we have to make sure that we have caravan sites for them. <BR /> <BR />Yesterday, we had a very heartfelt debate on Syria. We know that refugees are coming out of Syria, but we need an integration programme for those who come to live here. We cannot have the same debate in two and half years' time and say that we will have such a programme. We need to do it now, and that is what is what our amendment is all about.”
“We do not have that, and we all know why. That is an argument for a different day, but it is something that we really need to drive towards. <BR /> <BR />When we think about the BME community, I guess that we all think about the Romanian migrant workers who come here, set up home, put down roots and live amongst us. I guess that we think about the Portuguese, Polish and Lithuanian communities who now live among us. I think that that is what we all think about. If you go out into the community, you will have people complaining that these communities are filling our NHS and our A&Es. Yes, they are filling our NHS and our A&Es. They are filling them with doctors, nurses, skilled labour and non-skilled labour. They are absolutely a part of the community — a valued part of the community. On that, I absolutely agree with Mr Lynch.”
“The European Commission Against Racism and Intolerance believes that Northern Ireland should consolidate its equality legislation:”
“I absolutely agree; we need to drive this issue forward. We had the debate two and half years ago, so we need to take it and move things forward. That is what our amendment is all about: setting an action plan; setting a timetable, which is important; and setting key priorities. It is absolutely no good sitting in the corner doe-eyed like a puppy, looking up and saying that we have an issue without driving that issue forward. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment gives BME communities strength, and it gives an intent to the motion. I ask people to think before they decide to vote against it. <BR /> <BR />Of course, we have laws here that deal with our two-tier equality strategy: the Race Relations Order 1997 and the Fair Employment and Treatment Order 1998.”
“I felt like an outsider. I felt alienated. I felt isolated. That must be what it is like for those from minority communities who come here to live and who try to integrate but find it incredibly difficult, no matter what they do. That difference is the real problem. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the motion from Mr Lynch and welcome the fact that he brings it to the House for debate, but his words do not match the motion. The motion is weak. It is a soft ball being bounced around the Executive. It is not pushing the issue forward. It is the same argument that we had two and a half years ago.”
“We all look to our experiences while dealing with black and ethnic minority communities, be that when they come to a constituency office and you talk about issues that they have, when we see it on the streets or on the news or when you notice on holiday how things are slightly different in a cultural sense. I spent seven months living with Hazara people in a village, and, as the guy who was the ethnic minority living there, I saw what it must be like for them living here. I spoke to the wakils, the imams and the village elder and tried to understand the culture. I went out of my way to try to eat their food continuously, to wake when they woke, to go to bed when they went to bed and to understand them culturally. I tried to learn about their religion and tried to offer them my religion and my culture, but I found it extremely difficult.”
“What you find in any conflict — I am testimony to this — is that the people who suffer most are the innocent people: the men, women and children who live in what must be a hellish place. Again, I thank Mr Attwood for bringing this forward.”
“There is absolutely no doubt that we are seeing a proxy war in Aleppo between the United States and the Russians and between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and the United Nations is absolutely impotent in trying to bring a cessation to this absolute catastrophe, this near genocide. <BR /> <BR />In the last few hours, the French have brought forward a motion for a permanent ceasefire, and, yet again, the Russians have vetoed it, which tells you that the system of the five permanent members in the UN Security Council does not work. Therefore, I call on the United Nations to take direct action to put humanitarian corridors into Aleppo to allow the wounded to be brought out, the non-combatants to be brought out and the children to be brought out. Then, the combatants can kill themselves all the more.”
“I thank Mr Attwood for bringing this to the Assembly. I think we have all seen the horrific pictures that are coming out of Aleppo. We have seen the injured, and we have seen the tragedy of the children who are suffering in a city that has been pounded to ruins and is now being pounded into dust. This is more than a tragedy; it is a stain on the international community for taking no action at all in the last four years-plus. What we have in Aleppo is the Al-Nusra Front, which is fighting against the Free Syrian Army, which is, in turn, fighting against Assad's forces, which are underpinned by the Russians.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Would he agree with me that this is not just a case for the Department of Health but also a case for our Education Authority? When we send our kids to school, it is the teachers who identify the triggers, see the signs before a seizure and have to deal with the seizure and the after-effects of the seizure. If I can name-drop today, Mrs Leeman of Carrick Primary School in Lurgan, has just received her training for the treatment of my grandson, who has epilepsy.”
“I thank the Minister for his answers. Will he outline how many attacks have been recorded targeting members of the black and minority communities since the EU referendum?”
“Whatever route we decide to go down — legislation, technology, public awareness or education — the bottom line is that we must resource our Police Service and must educate parents.”
“I do not lay blame purely at the door of the Department of Justice, past or present; I do not blame the Justice Committee; I do not blame law enforcement; I do not blame the Assembly. But we must find a mechanism to keep the citizens of Northern Ireland safe. On this particular issue, there is no easy solution. It is difficult to catch those involved in using scramblers and quads outside the legal guidelines.”
“Those parents are complicit if somebody is injured, and they need to be told this. <BR /> <BR />We need to have proactive measures because, all too often, we debate these issues after the fact. We are debating this today because of a death, so we are debating after the fact.”
“Parents should not buy their children quads or scramblers unless they know that they have access and permission to use private land. Even then, I ask that they supervise those individuals and ensure that they know how to operate the vehicle efficiently and wear the correct PPE. I can see how new legislation making all those who operate such vehicles on private land have to obtain some kind of mandatory, formal familiarisation training and a wider understanding of the issue surrounding the use of quads and scramblers is something that could help. It is also a reasonable assumption that those parents living in heavily built-up areas who allow their children or teenagers to go out with such vehicles must know that they are operating them illegally, on the streets or the nearest piece of waste ground.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention; you are absolutely right. Later in my contribution, I am going to raise that very issue. <BR /> <BR />I call on the Justice Minister to drive forward, at pace, a review of sentencing to enable our judges and magistrates to deliver punishments that act as a deterrent. It is not enough for people to use scramblers and quads in an illegal manner and then say that they did not mean to harm someone. By using these vehicles in an illegal way, they are going out knowing that they could end up harming or killing somebody. <BR /> <BR />I move on to parental control. Without a doubt, there is a trend that those riding quads and scramblers illegally are either young adults or children. Therefore, there is a huge onus on parents to show responsibility.”
“Again, I call on the Executive to look at the minimum manning level of the PSNI and take action to increase its numbers to 7,500 officers, as envisaged in the Patten report, giving the force the ability to return to fully resourced neighbourhood policing. <BR /> <BR />With that, I call on the Justice Minister —”
“If the legislation is in place and the PSNI is content with the powers available to it, then why do we see such terrible incidents as the tragic death of Valerie Armstrong in Colin Glen forest park or, if we go back to 2011, the tragic death of Daniel Mooney, who was only 12 years old when he fell off the back of a scrambler? Many of these incidents could have been prevented if the PSNI had reacted to reports from concerned residents — because residents are ringing in and reporting these incidents — or if the PSNI had more of a footprint in these and other areas in the form of robust neighbourhood policing. Of course, this is not a criticism of the PSNI, because we all know the strain on our police force with budget cuts, indecisive strategic leadership and a series of manpower deficiencies.”
“The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995, which was amended in 2016, and the Criminal Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 2008 give the PSNI the powers they need to ensure that mechanically powered vehicles are not driven anywhere other than on roads — there is an issue with private land. It gives the police the power to seize vehicles used in a manner that causes alarm, distress or annoyance and the power to enforce the wearing of PPE, in the form of protective headgear. Last month — and this is interesting — the Justice Minister made it clear that the PSNI was content with the present legislation and the powers available to deal with the issue. In my contribution, I want to raise a number of other issues that might fall out of that. <BR /> <BR />First, the issue of enforcement.”
“I support the motion. In doing so, I stand with our Executive as they attempt to curb this menace, which is neither new nor unique to Northern Ireland. At the same time, I challenge our Executive to produce more than the words of this motion and to look at the problem with a strategic eye. <BR /> <BR />The issue of quad bikes or scramblers being driven on our streets or on private land, in a dangerous manner without proper personal protective equipment (PPE), has been highlighted for over a decade. Legislation is in place to deal with it; the issue is whether or not that legislation is enough.”
“We must look to people like that who stand up and take very difficult decisions. We have moved forward but we have a way to go. We in the House should now look at how we can make the situation better in Ardoyne, Twaddell and possibly other places. That is for the future, but I have to take this moment to commend the people who brought about the peaceful resolution.”
“In the same way, I can look at the Crumlin and Ardoyne Residents Association (CARA), which had to deal with considerable hostility in coming to where it now is. We have to be thankful that it showed the courage to get to where it is. It is interesting that the agreement was brought about, despite the Parades Commission. This group came together; the Parades Commission did not facilitate this agreement. <BR /> <BR />There were some pretty awful scenes, and, again, I agree with Mr Kelly about Father Gary Donegan, who showed incredible courage and leadership when he was receiving verbal abuse, which looked like it nearly bordered on physical abuse.”
“I join Mr Kelly in welcoming the peaceful outcome of the Ardoyne/Twaddell impasse. It is proof, if ever it were needed, that dialogue and accommodation can bring us forward out of the abyss. <BR /> <BR />I congratulate the people who helped to facilitate the arrangement. They worked tirelessly behind the scenes, and we owe them a debt of gratitude for bringing the dispute to an end. We have also to congratulate those involved in the dispute for going that extra step forward and coming away from it. I particularly pay tribute to the loyal Orange Order, which took that extra step and stretched itself to find a way out of this. I am not a member of the Orange Order, but I can see what it has had to do to get to where we are today.”
“I would really love to see that all the time. However, I reiterate the importance of bringing the people with us. Where we make improvements, we must applaud success. Where we fail, we must examine failure and do better the next time, but it will take time for us to be able to do that.”
“It has absolutely transformed Portadown and stretched into Banbridge. It is an exportable commodity that could be taken to South Belfast and used there. That is because it is based on dialogue, not on MLAs leading the community by the nose with legislation and saying, "This is what you will do". This is about communities, supported by MLAs, coming up with solutions for themselves. This was an intra-community, not cross-community, initiative, but it had a cross-community effect in Portadown. Suddenly, we saw that flags that were up in the nationalist area were not going up in interface areas. It was not perfect, but it absolutely worked. <BR /> <BR />I do not like seeing flags on lamp posts, but I would like to see my flag — the Union flag — and all its regalia flying above our government buildings.”
“Mean-spirited journalists attacked them because the hand was the wrong way round. MLAs attacked them because they did not like the flag. That was a council trying to change things, and, where I come from in Portadown, it worked. This year, I could count the number of paramilitary flags flying in Portadown in single digits. It was far better than last year and certainly better than the year before that. <BR /> <BR />We have a group called Regenerate that operates in Portadown. It got residents' groups and community groups together to talk, and it came up with a flags protocol, which was instigated last year. It absolutely works: the flags went up for our celebrations over the Twelfth of July and came down. It was exactly the same this year: they went up and came down. Paramilitary flags did not go up.”
“People are at fault — you could point your finger at those who are — but when somebody takes down your national flag, you genuinely feel that somebody is trying to erode something that is incredibly important to you. If you went down to the Republic of Ireland and said, "Take down your tricolour from the Dáil", people would be upset, and that is the problem that we have here — it had a detrimental effect. I understand the reasons why, and I am not attacking that. I do not really want to get into it. <BR /> <BR />Paramilitary flags are an absolute scourge and should not be flying anywhere. If I could, I would take them down, and I have done so in the past. Only this year, the Loyalist Communities Council came up with a commemorative flag, and what did we do? We attacked them for bringing out something to try to bring about change.”
“Not once have I needed a flag flying above my head to tell me how British I am, that I am a member of the United Kingdom or that I am fighting for a particular cause. That is because I am a confident unionist. I am confident in my identity, I am confident in my culture and I am confident in my traditions. However, not everybody is confident, and there is a general perception — it is important to take this on board — in some communities that their identity and culture are being eroded. <BR /> <BR />I was not in politics when the decision was taken to take the Union flag off City Hall — people will know about that issue far better than I do — but it had a serious, detrimental effect on the Protestant/unionist/loyalist people of the whole of Northern Ireland. It is that perception that we need to deal with.”
“In the same way, there are people in nationalist areas who fly the Irish tricolour and cannot see how that might intimidate me. So there is a real problem about perception and understanding, and there is a conversation to be had about that. <BR /> <BR />I do not like flags flying up lamp posts; I really do not. People know that. I have gone up lamp posts and taken those flags down. My flag, my Union flag, in tatters up a lamp post — it is just not acceptable, and I do not like it. It is completely disrespectful. <BR /> <BR />Many people will know my background in service overseas, whether in Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia and Kosovo or east and west Africa. People know where I have come from.”
“As a unionist, I really do not mind if people use the Union flag or the Ulster flag or the Irish tricolour or the provincial Ulster flag as something that identifies them with their identity, culture and tradition. As long as they fly that flag in an appropriate way that does not intimidate, I have no real issue with it. <BR /> <BR />The one thing that I would say, just to put something in context here, is that there is only one flag that represents the sovereignty of this country, and that is the Union flag. Now, I cannot see how anybody can be intimidated by the one flag that represents the sovereignty of this country, and therein lies the problem: because I cannot see it, does that mean that it does not intimidate?”
“I am very conscious that I am not from South Belfast, but it is a microcosm of the whole of Belfast, which is a microcosm of the whole of Northern Ireland, and it is important to talk. I am also part of the Commission on Flags, Identity, Culture and Tradition. We have had three meetings so far, and I am one of only two MLAs who sit on that commission; it is not full of MLAs. If you do not mind, I will try to keep my remarks quite general so as not to impinge on what I do in the commission. <BR /> <BR />I suppose that the flying of flags is nearly an institution in Northern Ireland. It has become part of our psyche in many ways. Certainly, when I was growing up, flags were always flying in some shape or form, normally on a house, and that has transitioned onto lamp posts.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Have you actually engaged with the judicial executive group that the Lord Chief Justice has set up to promote the idea of a non-ministerial department and which he sees as a conduit for work between the various different justice departments?”
“Given the challenging nature of supervision and delivery of rehabilitation, does the Minister believe that a staff level of 31 officers at Her Majesty's Prison Maghaberry for 870 inmates for overnight supervision, including the periodic monitoring of up to 25 prisoners at risk, is not only inadequate but is not appropriate given the recent Prisoner Ombudsman's report on Sean Lynch?”
“— and completely supports the SDLP's amendment.”
“Remember as well the families of those who are being stalked; the children also suffer from this. The Ulster Unionist Party absolutely agrees with the sentiment of the motion —”
“We have been told that we will keep an eye on the legislation in GB to see how it progresses, but we have not taken the next step forward. In 2012, the UK Government introduced two offences: stalking; and stalking involving a fear of violence. In Scotland, stalking was made an offence in 2010. There is absolutely no reason why stalking should not become a specific offence here in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />What can be done to help the situation? People in Northern Ireland are entitled to the same protection as that of their fellow citizens in the rest of the UK. If stalking is a separate offence in Great Britain, it should be a separate offence here in Northern Ireland. Having a specific offence of stalking would send a very clear message to those who perpetrate stalking, as well as to the victims, saying that it will not be accepted.”
“Absolutely. I totally agree with the Member; that is the whole point of the debate. We take on harassment and intimidation, but what we really need is a specific act of stalking. <BR /> <BR />We have already heard what it is like in England and Wales, and we have had the figures for harassment in those areas. The average victim is stalked about 100 times before going to the police. Only 1% of such complaints result in criminal charges. What is the current legislation? As we heard, there is none. We have talked in this House previously about harassment, causing another to fear violence, breach of an injunction prohibiting harassment and breach of a restraining order, all of which may be prosecuted under the Protection from Harassment (Northern Ireland) Order 1997.”
“This crime robs people of their dignity and peace of mind and, often, leaves them in fear of their life. <BR /> <BR />As mentioned earlier, in December 2015 a Home Office consultation paper, 'Introducing a Stalking Protection Order', described how, although stalking can take place within the context of an ongoing pattern of domestic violence and abuse, in around half of cases it seems that stalking takes place where only a very casual acquaintanceship exists between the perpetrator and victim. How big is the problem? Without reiterating what has been said, it is really quite hard because we do not have a definition. PSNI statistics reveal that between 2014 and 2015 there were 3,050 recorded incidents of harassment and 540 of intimidation. I have already —”
“<BR /> <BR />Stalking may also take the form of unwanted intrusions, including following, waiting for, spying on, approaching or accosting a person or going to their home. In addition to communication and intrusion, the stalker may engage in a number of associated behaviours, including ordering or cancelling goods and services, making unwanted complaints or threats, property damage and violence. These all have a major effect on the victim, and we must remember that this is about the victim. The stalker frequently threatens their victims either directly or indirectly. Examples of indirect threats include sending wreaths or violent images to the victim. Stalkers will often make written or verbal threats. They have been known to threaten violence months or even years into the future and have, indeed, followed through on these threats.”
“OK. Because a lot has happened over the summer, some people will see this as a soft debate. It is not. This is a good, strong debate, and I thank the Member for Lagan Valley for bringing it to the Floor. I do not want just to repeat everything that has been said; word for word, I agree with all of it. It is important that we show that we are a united Assembly. <BR /> <BR />We have heard that there is no legal definition of stalking, but it is clearly linked to intimidation and harassment. It is unwanted communication, done in a distressing manner. It can be in the form of telephone calls, letters, emails, texts, sending or leaving unsolicited material, graffiti or messages on social media, which, if looked at in isolation, probably do not look that bad, but, when brought together or done repeatedly, take on a far more sinister aspect.”
“A lot of people will think that this is quite a soft debate, given what happened over the summer, when a £1 billion property deal was linked to one political party and another party tried to —”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Notwithstanding all the facts and figures that you have given, will you agree with me that one of the groups that is badly affected is the armed forces veterans community? Due to the security situation, many of them have to suffer in silence, abandoned by Westminster and neglected by the Executive. Does he agree with me that we should fight to have a veterans and reserves mental health programme set up in Northern Ireland, as they have in England, funded by Westminster?”
“That is down to individuals. It is important that individuals do not just read the words but action them. It is also important that the Assembly holds Members to account in an open and transparent manner if they slip outside that.”
“The public opinion and perception of us in here are pretty low. I put a marker down now and say this: I will press — this was mentioned earlier, and it is not for debate — for all the commissioner's recommendations to be brought to the House and accepted. They are important. <BR /> <BR />The motion states:”