Doug Beattie
Upper Bann · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I absolutely accept what the Minister said earlier, which is that she would not have been able to get such a Bill out of the Executive. That is the sentence that you would have heard from me, Minister, had you waited a minute. I absolutely accept that that is the case, and I think that we all do.”
“Just a minute. Minister, I guess that I disagree with you, because I too did my work. I accept that I do not have the resources that you and your Department have, but I sat with the Public Prosecution Service and talked through this very thing, and it said that it was workable.”
“The Director of Public Prosecutions would look at the seriousness of the offence — death by dangerous driving, risk of harm to the public, serial arson, assault, sexual behaviour that is a danger to the public — and he would also look at the best interests of the child, because we have not got away from diversionary measures here.”
“Had James Bulger been murdered by two nine-year-olds, we would probably be having a discussion about the minimum age of criminal responsibility being nine, such was the anger in 1993 when that horrendous crime took place. All the ages are arbitrary, and we need to deal with that.”
“That raises the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 12. It is not what some people, who want it to be 14, want; it is not what others, who want it to stay at 10, want; but I believe that 12 is right. Why do I presume that a child can commit a criminal offence at 12 years of age?”
“In essence, however, that amendment would raise the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 14, apart from in the case of the offences in that closed list. It has been said many times, and I will not repeat what has been said, but the closed list does not make sense to me either.”
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“But, for Northern Ireland — for our children, for your children, for the ability for you to come back to Northern Ireland and live again — we have to take a chance. This is a once-in-a-generation time to have peace in Northern Ireland". <BR /> <BR />He voted in favour of the Belfast Agreement. I wonder what he would say today. Would he have voted for the Belfast Agreement had he known about the on-the-run schemes and the comfort letters? What about the unbalanced justice systems that we are seeing now, where the Director of Public Prosecutions can direct the PSNI to investigate state forces and ignore the terrorists? Would he have voted for the Belfast Agreement if he knew that, after releasing the terrorists from prison and dismantling the Maze and the special treatment, all we would do was set it up all over again?”
“I was overseas when the Belfast Agreement referendum took place. My father held my proxy vote, and I remember speaking to him about the referendum. My dad spent 22 years in the Royal Ulster Rifles and then another eight years in the Ulster Defence Regiment. He never talked politics or religion. He never apportioned blame. He understood that, in any conflict, there will always be competing narratives. He said to me, "Douglas," — he always called me Douglas — "there are many aspects of this agreement I don't like. In particular, I don't like releasing terrorists from prison until they've completed their sentences. I don't like it that we're not decommissioning first. They've been responsible for the murder of our family, our friends, our colleagues and our neighbours.”
“I feel that we have failed our country and we need to support the PSNI in the rule of law and order.”
“We should watch our language and our words because we do not want to raise tensions in our community. We have to be careful about what we say. I want to know where the weapon came from for the shooting yesterday. Was it a new weapon? If so, where did it come from? If it is an old weapon — a decommissioned weapon — I want to know. I also want to know whether anybody involved — it will have taken many people — is on licence, and, if it is proven that they were involved, they should be returned to prison immediately.”
“<BR /> <BR />To spray an area with 24 high-velocity rounds is an absolute and utter disgrace, and it is incumbent on all of us here today — it is good to see all of us represented here today — to have a single and united voice and to watch our language.”
“There will have been lookouts, and there will have been scouts, not to mention the person who drove the car and not to mention the person who pulled the trigger. In pulling the trigger, he endangered not just the police officers but every single person who was in that forecourt and well beyond. High-velocity rounds are indiscriminate. They will enter the body through muscle and tissue. The round will break bone, and it will keep going. It will ricochet off concrete, it will ricochet off structures, it will penetrate walls, it will penetrate windows, and it will penetrate men, women and children who are in that area.”
“I am sure that the House will join me in condemning the indiscriminate shooting and attempted murder of a police officer in north Belfast. It was a cowardly act that brings nothing to society and furthers no cause. What it does do is that it inflicts misery on a community that has already suffered so much, and all they want to do is live in peace, as we all do. This attack was carried out by thugs, by criminals, by career terrorists; but let us not think of them as some rogue element, because this attempted murder was rooted in one community or the other. It will have taken months in the planning. There will have been intelligence teams to watch the police and their movements. There will have been somebody who supplied the gun and somebody who supplied the car.”
“Thank you for giving way. Do you agree that the real outworking of this failed Executive can be seen in the faces of the 3,400 people in Lurgan and Portadown who have had to avail themselves of food banks in the last 12 months and the 5,200 people in Portadown who do not have a GP?”
“It raises this question: before you rushed out that statement, did you test that contractor to make sure that they had the wherewithal to take on the Bannview practice, or was this about getting something out quickly to put a sticking plaster on a problem and save face?”
“Minister, thank you for your answers so far. You did not create the problem in general practice; it has been a long-term problem through underinvestment. This is about 5,200 people in Bannview practice who are extremely scared at this time. On 5 January, you said that a contract had been secured. You went on to say:”
“I thank the Minister for her answers so far. I know that she is justly concerned about the safety of prisoners and prison officers. Of the 77 prison officers who have been assaulted in the last 12 months — that is more than one a week — how many have had to take a protracted period off work or have not returned to full duty?”
“We have to target schools and schoolchildren. We have to target the workplace and communities. Let us tackle how alcohol can grab an individual and destroy their life. Let us tackle the fact that drinking alcohol, alcohol abuse and binge drinking are, for some people, a lifestyle choice. They do it deliberately, and they fund it through crime. It is important that we look at those aspects as well.”
“We have to look at that, because people are angry. If somebody deliberately drinks and drives, there is a chance that there will be a fatality. <BR /> <BR />Over Christmas, 380 people were arrested for drink-driving: that is 380 potential fatalities. I mention that because we have a problem with alcohol abuse. I know that I have narrowed it down to drink-driving, but we could talk about other aspects. We have alcohol-related crime. I have said that it is a societal issue. It is not just for the Justice Minister and the Health Minister. It is for the Executive, whatever shape or form they will take in the coming months — dare I say it, years — to tackle this problem.”
“Let us look at Enda Dolan: he was 18 years of age; a first-year student at Queen's University; killed by a hit-and-run driver on the Malone Road in October 2014; and left lying at the side of the road like a bag of rubbish. It was a shocking crime and a shocking waste of life. The man who was convicted for his murder was convicted of death by dangerous driving and awarded seven years, with three and a half years on licence. I think that we all know that that was increased by 12 months. Why was that death by dangerous driving? What was it not murder? Why was it not at least manslaughter, because that driver took 13 drinks before he got into that van? He knew what he was doing. When he climbed into that van, he turned it into a weapon, just as much as if he had been carrying a gun or a knife.”
“Do we have a look at the effects on the individual of alcohol abuse that drives them towards crime, such as trying to get hold of alcohol on a day-to-day basis? It is pretty much like what they would do with drugs. Do we look at the cost to the public purse of alcohol-related issues? That cost has already been given, so I will not go through it. Do we look at the statistics on alcohol-related crime? Some 76% of those arrested have taken alcohol, 20% of all crime is alcohol-related, which rises to 47% for crimes of violent offences against the person. They are huge statistics that society should be ashamed of. <BR /> <BR />If you do not mind, I would like to look at this from a victim's point of view, because there is an anger out there when we do not look at the victim.”
“I welcome the motion and support it. It is good to see that the Justice Minister is here to listen to the debate. I saw the Education Minister, but he is probably just about to shoot off. I believe that he also has a part to play in this, although not named in the motion. <BR /> <BR />The motion states the obvious. I do not mean that in a detrimental way. I mean that we have a societal problem with alcohol, which is well known and well documented. That is why I say that it states the obvious. Tackling it needs a joined-up approach. In general terms, it is pretty obvious what we need to do. Where do we start? Do we start with the availability of alcohol, the low cost of alcohol and what you can buy in your local supermarket incredibly cheaply? That is certainly an issue for society.”
“I commend the motion, and I acknowledge its difficulty for many, but I ask them to listen to my words. I am using soft words, and I do so deliberately because I understand.”
“It would keep the Assembly informed and give our armed forces champions, who are on each of our 11 councils, somebody to work to. It would allow us to know what was going on and make sure that we got our fair share of what comes out of the Government in Westminster.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I said earlier, this affects all corners of our society. I visit a 94-year-old World War II RAF veteran who is living in a care home. He is deaf, nearly blind and getting no support. I know that people across the border in Ireland who served in the British military during the Second World War and later could also use this support. Somebody on the covenant reference group would be able to target and help them. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, representation on the covenant reference group would not bypass any of the devolved functions. The Executive would still have the final say. There is no bypassing; it is purely about representation, but it would give us a link to what everybody else has in the United Kingdom has, but we, at present, do not.”
“That must be a good thing, and it could help to alleviate issues in our health service. <BR /> <BR />Nobody in the military believes that they should get housing above anybody else, but service personnel leaving the military do not even realise that they are entitled to bid for social housing in Northern Ireland even if they live in England. They do not know that they are entitled to points because accommodation goes with the job: when you leave your job, you are made homeless and are entitled to points. They do not know this because we do not have anybody on the covenant reference group. <BR /> <BR />On education and learning, again, there is no ask. When you leave the military, the armed forces give you £1,000 a year to help you to retrain. Those in Northern Ireland are not using it, and they need to be educated.”
“What could such representation help us to do? The covenant fund is £10 million a year that we are able to bid for. We get our fair share, and, in the last 12 months, £450,000 has gone to Combat Stress and £600,000 to the Somme Nursing Home, but there are other worthy groups out there, including cross-community groups. This money has been used for cross-community groups, but, if we are not in the reference group, we cannot target it and we cannot direct it. <BR /> <BR />A Departments of Community Mental Health (DCMH) facility in Thiepval barracks is underused. Only four people have gone to it, because nobody knows about it. It is paid for by the MoD, so this motion would not cost the Executive one single penny. If we could open up that facility, we could get help for our veterans who are suffering from mental illnesses.”
“If we were in the covenant reference group, we would have representation, we would have oversight and we would have scrutiny. The group produces an annual report. We can all read it — it is an open-source document — yet Northern Ireland has had no input to it since 2011. That, I think, is wrong. The covenant reference group is a Cabinet-led group with representation from all devolved Governments except Northern Ireland. That is fundamentally wrong. It has representation from the MoD, the Department for Work and Pensions, the Education, Health and Transport Departments — the list goes on — and representation from Wales and Scotland.”
“We do not have the ability to have oversight or to scrutinise that Armed Forces Covenant. We do not have that because we are not in the covenant reference group.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important that we as an Assembly and as the politicians of Northern Ireland represent everybody in our community, regardless of their present or past employment. I have to say something; I will repeat it twice so that people really understand what I am saying. The motion does not seek to give service personnel or veterans an advantage. It does not seek to give them an advantage. It seeks to give them representation so that they are not disadvantaged because of their service. There are times when they are disadvantaged. <BR /> <BR />In 2011, the Armed Forces Covenant was instigated throughout the United Kingdom. It was instigated here in Northern Ireland. We are part of the United Kingdom; it is here. However, we are not represented.”
“It is not about a political party; it is about trying to help vulnerable people in our community, whom we all represent. The armed forces community in Northern Ireland numbers over a quarter of a million people. That is serving personnel, veterans and their families and includes people who have served from the Second World War right up to more recent conflicts. I do not really want to argue about the conflicts because, in many ways, we need to point the finger at politicians as opposed to the military regarding the conflicts, but, if any incidents in those conflicts were unlawful, we need to deal with the individuals involved. Many of those veterans feel isolated because of the ongoing security situation in Northern Ireland. They are isolated and not coming forward for help.”
“The British military helped to stop ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Kosovo, it helped to end genocide in Rwanda, it dropped aid to Yazidi Christians who were isolated on mountaintops, and it helped with the devastating Ebola virus in Sierra Leone. It also helps in this country; when a device is found somewhere, it is army technical officers who head out to dispose of it. Even today, members of our armed forces are helping the Afghan Government in Kabul, and we are deploying people from Northern Ireland to South Sudan in a peacekeeping role. That has to be applaudable. I ask for balance, but, with that balance, I have acknowledged how some may view the British military, and it is important to acknowledge that. <BR /> <BR />I have kept the wording of the motion as soft as possible because I fully understand the sensitivities with it.”
“I can fully understand that, and I reiterate what I have said on many occasions: if anybody from the British military has broken the law, they need to answer to the law. In the future, I hope that you will be able to stand up and say, as I have, that those who were part of terrorist organisations have brutalised our country. <BR /> <BR />Those impact statements are really something for later, and I do not want to dwell on them. I also understand that there are many in the House who have grave concerns about British military actions around the world in the likes of Iraq — I served in Iraq and fully understand the concerns; I also have concerns about that conflict — Afghanistan, Syria or, indeed, Libya. I ask for some balance in the debate and some understanding that we are not all bad.”
“This country is trying to move towards a brighter future — I think that we all agree on that — but we have a deeply troubled past. Therefore, I fully understand that any debate on the British military can be viewed as contentious. I know that you all have your prepared notes, but, please, I ask everybody to listen to what is being proposed before you come back on what I say. <BR /> <BR />Before I address the motion, I will speak to those people who predominantly sit to my right-hand side. I acknowledge that this is a difficult subject for you and that it is a difficult motion for you to support. I fully understand that you feel that those whom you represent and many of the communities that you represent have been brutalised by the British military, certainly in the 1970s and the early 1980s.”
“— are still victims of forced labour, and 121 million people have never had the chance of an education. There are 300,000 child soldiers, of whom I was one. I support the motion and the amendments —”
“I cannot believe that, when we wrote the human rights declarations in 1948, 1953 or 1998, we ever intended them to support people like them. <BR /> <BR />Human rights have given us the right to peaceful protest and assembly, the right to paid holidays, the rights to privacy and a family life, but we also have to remember that 21 million people —”
“I absolutely support those words, but nobody could have envisaged that those rights would be afforded to the likes of ISIS, al-Qaeda or the Taliban, whose expression of religious freedom of opinion is in part a provocation to violence and repression, particularly against minorities and women. Who can forget the 'Charlie Hebdo' attack or the Bataclan massacre? I have my experiences from Afghanistan. I will not get into the rationale of that, but, when you see a woman go in to vote, dip her finger in ink and then, when she comes out, see the Taliban standing outside cut off her inked finger, you suddenly realise how many human rights we have here compared with so many others. Those people preach hate, violence and anarchy.”
“As things have progressed, human rights have become slightly more complicated. Article 18 of the declaration states:”
“It showed courage to say, "No, my human rights allow me to have this seat." <BR /> <BR />Of course, our human rights have been added to by the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the European Court of Human Rights. It is interesting that, today, in the European Court of Human Rights, the trial of Ratko Mladic for the Srebrenica massacre in 1995, the last of those war crimes, is finishing.”
“We all know — we could get into a slagging match across the Floor — that our recent chequered past has not lived up to article 1. Neither have we lived up to article 3, the right to life. However, I see no point in trading insults around the place. I go back to the fact that this is something that we should be celebrating. <BR /> <BR />We talk about courage. We all know about Rosa Parks, who refused to give up her seat to a white man on a segregated bus in Montgomery, Alabama and sparked a civil rights movement in the United States. A little known fact that I found out is that she was not actually the first. That was a woman called Claudette Colvin, but she was not used as the poster girl because she was a teenager who was pregnant to a married man.”
“These are all good things; not bad things. I do not know how anybody can oppose things like that. The declaration in 1948 was a milestone. Article 1 states:”
“I look at the motion in its most general terms and see it as something to celebrate. We should celebrate the fact that we have human rights in this country and further afield because, if we had not signed the treaty in 1948, we might not. We need to remember why we had to sign a treaty in 1948 after the Second World War and the genocide that happened then. The motion is something to celebrate, but I know that there is much conflict in it and an awful lot more to do. I also look at the two amendments and ask what there is not to support. All of us, as good, decent human beings, must want human rights for fellow human beings. To be perfectly honest, I cannot see anything there that I want to oppose. <BR /> <BR />The United Nations asks us to show courage and stand up for people's human rights on 10 December.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers so far. I will expand on the issue of crime. As you know, the Northern Ireland crime survey is showing a decrease in crime, yet the PSNI crime statistics are showing an increase in crime. Can you give us a view on that and where resources would go to?”
“I do not want to focus too much on the fourth component of the LCM and change the whole debate, but the pardon for convictions for certain abolished offences did come late to the Committee, and, because of that, it is fair to say that scrutiny was possibly rushed. I can concede that. I see this as a legislative process and these things being viewed on a case-by-case basis. Those who were shot at dawn were pardoned 90 years after. That was a good pardon. Alan Turing was pardoned in 2013. That was right. The decriminalisation of homosexual acts in Northern Ireland came into force 34 years ago. This LCM puts right the consequences of a bad law. Therefore, I believe, like the Chair, that the Justice Committee has scrutinised the LCM at the right level. I will certainly be supporting it.”
“As it stands, if you are a UK citizen, it is chargeable offence to mention the name of somebody who is a victim of forced marriage, but, if you leave the country and use a server in another country — Pakistan or somewhere like that — you can quite openly use the name and then return to the United Kingdom, and no offence will have been committed. It would have been nice to see that provision extended further. I am still thankful that we have it as it stands now, however. <BR /> <BR />It is right to say the Justice Committee has had time to scrutinise the LCM in detail, and it has been important for it to do so.”
“I support the LCM in its entirety, as outlined by the Justice Minister. I do so personally and on behalf of my party. I will not reiterate what the Chair of the Justice Committee said. He went into it in quite some detail. He really did need to go into that detail, because, since we started dealing with the LCM in June, it has been incredibly frustrating. Things could certainly have been done differently. We were exasperated weekly by the lack of progress on the maritime enforcement powers and the hot-pursuit issues. I welcome the Justice Minister saying that she will pursue this at a later stage. Hopefully, we will be able to get around that. <BR /> <BR />I do not want to go through the different component parts of the LCM, but I am slightly disappointed that the provision on anonymity for victims of forced marriage does not go further.”
“Sorry. Has the Minister considered a system of trauma risk management for immediate management of prison officers after an incident?”
“I have raised that concern before. The Prison Officers' Association raised the issue of manning levels with the First Minister and asked for action. That was on 10 October, and I do not believe that there has been any action taken. <BR /> <BR />If I may, I will say another thing to try to add value.”
“I welcome the statement from the Justice Minister. I honestly believe that she is working towards dealing with the issue. It is good to see that she is working with the Health Minister to deal with the issue because it needs a joined-up approach. That must be welcomed. I have spoken to her on a number of occasions; she is absolutely sincere. I applaud her for the work that she has done so far. <BR /> <BR />I have raised this issue before: the SPAR process that she talked about is effective only if we have the right level and number of prison officers. Sadly, we are lacking that.”
“Will the Minister assure the Assembly that the Northern Ireland Prison Service and prison reform are not in free fall due to poor management and low morale?”
“As ever, I thank the Minister for her answer. Of course, I knew the answer because I asked a question two weeks ago, and, since then, we have had prison officers removing their labour for 90 minutes, a death in custody and an ombudsman report on another death in custody. Today, we have prison officers balloting for industrial action.”
“I thank the Minister for a very clear and full answer. Many Members are concerned about our children outside of schools. In my constituency, we have a rural school with a 40 mph speed limit outside in a dangerous area, and outside our urban schools, parking causes near gridlock. Will the Minister consider promoting a society mindset change by creating a 20 mph speed limit outside all our schools as standard and making clearways in front of our schools at the start and end of the school day?”
“Therefore, we are debating something that we have not seen and which has not been brought before us. <BR /> <BR />I will go back to the very start, if I may, and say that I want justice for all, and I do not think that anybody should be able to avoid justice. This is not arguing for arguing's sake. This is not countering a motion with an amendment just for the sake of it. As passionate as Mr Kearney is about his motion and the people he is dealing with, I am the same, as are other people. That is important. As an Executive and an Assembly, we need to have lateral thinking and come up with something that works for all and not just for some. That is key. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, I cannot support the motion.”
“We have not seen it. It has not been published. Is the plan predicated on the assumption that inquest reform is the only option? Does it propose only non-jury inquests? What about requests for juries? What about multiple-case hearings? Will the inquest hear all the Ballymurphy families at the same time or individually? We do not know because we do not know the plan. We have not seen it. What about witness protection? What about if somebody is called to one of these legacy inquests, and he is infirm, he sees a doctor and the doctor says that he cannot come. Will there be a judicial review? Will that stretch things out? Can we get this done in five years? <BR /> <BR />The point I am making is that I have not seen and do not understand the details of the Lord Chief Justice's five-year plan.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have said this before and I say it again: I respect our justice system, our judges and their independence. We talk about the Lord Chief Justice's five-year plan: what is it? I have not seen such a plan. I have seen a statement and some paper articles, but I have not seen a plan that lays out how the Lord Chief Justice will deliver those inquests in five years. That is fundamental to your motion:”
“<BR /> <BR />Each side is entrenched. We are entrenched in our position that everybody should get an equal shout at this, and others are saying, "No, let us get these legacy inquests up and running because the state was involved and it owes them." I can see both sides of the argument. <BR /> <BR />Our judiciary is impartial and independent. We need to respect that, and I hope that we all do. It is important that people understand that it is up to our Executive and Assembly to find a way. Nothing stops us from bringing out a bespoke way of dealing with these issues. The Historical Investigations Unit can be independent within the confines of it. We can use that to give everybody the same thing. That is incredibly important.”