Doug Beattie
Upper Bann · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I absolutely accept what the Minister said earlier, which is that she would not have been able to get such a Bill out of the Executive. That is the sentence that you would have heard from me, Minister, had you waited a minute. I absolutely accept that that is the case, and I think that we all do.”
“Just a minute. Minister, I guess that I disagree with you, because I too did my work. I accept that I do not have the resources that you and your Department have, but I sat with the Public Prosecution Service and talked through this very thing, and it said that it was workable.”
“The Director of Public Prosecutions would look at the seriousness of the offence — death by dangerous driving, risk of harm to the public, serial arson, assault, sexual behaviour that is a danger to the public — and he would also look at the best interests of the child, because we have not got away from diversionary measures here.”
“Had James Bulger been murdered by two nine-year-olds, we would probably be having a discussion about the minimum age of criminal responsibility being nine, such was the anger in 1993 when that horrendous crime took place. All the ages are arbitrary, and we need to deal with that.”
“That raises the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 12. It is not what some people, who want it to be 14, want; it is not what others, who want it to stay at 10, want; but I believe that 12 is right. Why do I presume that a child can commit a criminal offence at 12 years of age?”
“In essence, however, that amendment would raise the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 14, apart from in the case of the offences in that closed list. It has been said many times, and I will not repeat what has been said, but the closed list does not make sense to me either.”
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“It is from that that judges form their decisions, along with maximum and minimum —.”
“Go to the Judiciary NI website, and, under the sentencing guidelines for sexual offences, you will find 58 entries that outline case law.”
“In the case of a vulnerable teenage girl who was raped by a 47-year-old man, the sentence was four years behind bars. That is not good enough. People do not think that it is good enough, and they do not view the licence element of the sentence as being just. I guess that that is the point that I am trying to make. <BR /> <BR />What can help? The Ulster Unionist Party believes that the establishment of a sentencing council could give judges stronger direction on sentencing, not just guidance. A sentencing council would have the ability to take away a lot of the discretion in judges' determinations and, in doing so, achieve exactly what people want, which is consistency, transparency, fairness, the sentence to match the crime and a system that is understood.”
“Punishment and deterrence, however, are also included among the reasons for a custodial sentence, and we seem to have forgotten about those two core principles, even though 80% of the people in jail currently are repeat offenders. Our sentencing is weak and ineffective, particularly for crimes of a sexual nature against women and girls. There is a case of an individual with hundreds of sexually explicit pictures of children getting a suspended sentence. In 2023, the perpetrator of the rape of a 14-year-old girl received just 18 months in jail. In 2024, a two-year jail term was given to a 51-year-old man who raped a woman whom he had met on a dating site. In 2025, for the sexual abuse of two girls aged six and eight, the perpetrator got six years.”
“Yes, I can. If I had time, I would be able to go through it all with you, but I do not, so I will have to be pretty sharp and frugal with my words. Not all, but the vast majority of sentences are 50% custodial and 50% on licence. That is roughly what people see happen. It is not exact, and I do not have the time to go through it all exactly. What I am saying is that, if you are going to give somebody a sentence reduction, take it off the time that they have on licence, not off the time that they spend behind bars. <BR /> <BR />Let us remember why we have custodial sentences. I am conscious of Sinn Féin's amendment, which deals with rehabilitation, and I have no issue with it whatsoever. I will support the amendment, and I look forward to hearing what its Members have to say on public protection.”
“I do not think that I will be able to. I am really sorry, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you probably just caught me at the sentence at which I was about to say what I believe should be meant by backloading that element when, as you just said, somebody enters a late guilty plea. It means that they get should time off their licence not off their custodial sentence. That is what I mean by "backloading". I am aware that there is a consultation —.”
“If perpetrators then decide to plead guilty, it should be up to the judge to decide whether they are entitled to have any time taken off their sentence, but that needs to be backloaded. What do I mean by "backloaded"?”
“If the perpetrator pleads not guilty and then decides to wait to see how the evidence stacks up, puts his victim through perhaps two or three years of worry while waiting for the trial and then decides at the last moment, even on the day that the trial starts, to plead guilty, he could receive up to 25% — a quarter — off his sentence. Why would a perpetrator therefore not chance his arm? That is an obscene amount of sentence reduction. <BR /> <BR />Let me be clear: it is our party's belief that individuals should get one chance to plead guilty, and that is at their arraignment hearing or earlier. If they do, they will receive a sentence reduction. If they do not, the opportunity should be taken away from them.”
“Yet, in Northern Ireland, we have put the perpetrator in the driving seat. If the perpetrator admits guilt at the earliest opportunity, they receive up to a third off their sentence. The reason for that is well known. It saves time, money and resources, and it saves the victim from having to go through the pain of a trial. OK, I can get behind that. I think that getting a third off a sentence is excessive, but it is similar to the rest of the United Kingdom. However, here is where I really am concerned.”
“<BR /> <BR />That brings me to the issue of lenient sentencing in Northern Ireland, particularly sentence discounts or credits or the fact that judges are able to deviate from mandatory minimum sentencing. Sentencing in Northern Ireland is complex. It has been stated that:”
“There must be directed attendance with registered outcomes in order to ensure that our judges are equipped with the knowledge that they need to exercise their judicial functions. In doing so, the training should aim to ensure that judges understand that the language that they use during a trial or in passing sentence must be designed to give confidence to the public. We simply cannot have a repeat of the situation where a serious predatory sex offender was told by the judge to find a wife and start a family or that he should not be excluded from normal life and should be allowed to use the same internet dating site that he used to target the woman whom he sexually assaulted. Such language creates moral and societal outrage and undermines confidence.”
“According to the Criminal Justice Inspection report, that has led to criminal justice outcomes remaining "relatively static" despite numerous strategies and policies, with "impactful change" being "slow". The Ulster Unionist Party's motion lays out areas that will, we believe, bring about meaningful change and, importantly, increase confidence in a beleaguered criminal justice system. <BR /> <BR />First, we call for compulsory and continuous personal and professional development for our judges. Their training is the responsibility of the Lady Chief Justice (LCJ) through the Judicial Studies Board for Northern Ireland. That has been the case since the Constitutional Reform Act 2005. We believe that delivering that training must be more than an invitation to attend.”
“That is in line with the 'Review of the Northern Ireland Policing Board', which described the tripartite relationship as showing:”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. Justice must not only be done but be seen to be done. More than that, people must have confidence that our justice system works. It is clear, however, that confidence in our criminal justice system is being eroded daily. Part of the problem, though certainly not all of it, is our sentencing regime, an issue that I have raised on many occasions. <BR /> <BR />On a wider issue, it is worth reflecting on the most recent Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland (CJINI) report on our criminal justice system. The report said that inspectors found that:”
“I welcome the Minister's statement on cross-border collaboration. It is important. This morning, I made a Member's statement about convicted murderer James Meehan, who is illegally at large in Ireland from a Northern Ireland prison. The gardaí and the PSNI know where he is, but James Meehan is happily enjoying his life and going to the pub with no consequences. Was there any discussion of cutting out that loophole, which undermines our justice system?”
“<BR /> <BR />It is time, if we can, in this place to start putting the victims first and not the perpetrators. The moment that James Meehan proved himself to be an individual who would abscond as soon he was given time to do that, we should have said no. It is not the Prison Service's fault; it adheres to legislation. We need to change the legislation. When he disappeared the second time, absent for 16 months, we should have really taken note of this individual and never let him out the door again so that he served his full sentence. In fact, absconding should have been an aggravating factor. My thoughts remain with the family of Jim McFadden: Danielle, her sister and her mother. They now live without a father, and this man goes to the pub at large, and we do nothing about it.”
“In December 2024, on pre-release, he disappeared again, and he is still at large. The Gardai know where he is, and the PSNI knows where he is. He is in Kells in County Meath, and nobody is going to feel his collar and stick him in jail. His victim's family in Londonderry are suffering unbelievably because the murderer of their father is still at large and nothing can be done to put him behind bars. The reality is that he should never have been out on day release in the first place. It should have been, "One strike and you are out". Danielle Bradley and her sister witnessed the murder of their father, and they want justice. This guy, when he is returned to prison, needs to get more than a paltry number of months to serve. It is truly ridiculous.”
“I am getting an increasing amount of correspondence from individuals who are concerned about our justice system. I cannot mention them all, but I want to mention one that I think is important. It is the case of convicted murderer James Meehan. Convicted in 2009 for the murder of Jim McFadden in Londonderry, he absconded while on bail but was caught again and sentenced to 14 years in prison. In 2022, he absconded again while on day release and was at large for 16 months in the Irish Republic. He then went on a lengthy legal battle. Everybody knew where he was; everybody knew his address, but he remained at large. When we finally got him back to prison, he was sentenced to an extra nine months. It is ridiculous. The lesson learned is: do not let them out if they are going to do a runner. Do not think it for one minute.”
“Despite the numerous strategies and policies, many of which were mentioned in the question, our criminal justice system has seen little improvement in15 years. Those are not my words but those of Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland. My question to the First Minister and the deputy First Minister is this: as the leaders of our Executive, what will they do to sort this out? It is clear that our Justice Minister cannot. Maybe special measures?”
“Thank you, Minister, for your answer. We know that Health was in a desperate position, so you ring-fenced money for waiting lists. The PSNI is in a desperate position, and I welcome the £5 million that you have given to it for the riots, but will you take proactive steps to fund the PSNI properly in the absence of the Justice Minister having it as a priority?”
“I thank the Minister for her comprehensive answer. As she has said, for the economy to fully realise the benefits of tourism, it needs to reach into our town centres. That could mean linking tourism to a renewed and restarted high street task force. Will the Minister consider that, along with other Departments, to aid her tourism strategy?”
“Thank you, Minister. I will raise this issue so that you can understand the depth of the problem. Your Department puts out guidance to say that councils should issue warning letters about dog licences. Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council has given out 11,000 such letters. Derry City and Strabane District Council has sent 6,000. Belfast City Council has given out 18 letters. Ards and North Down Borough Council has issued zero. It is clear that your Department's guidance is either ineffective, is being ignored or is not understood. Which is it?”
“Minister, I have already completed the consultation on sentence reduction for guilty pleas. Can the Minister outline the benefit of a late guilty plea receiving up to a 25% reduction in a sentence?”
“I am sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have timed myself out.”
“There are school buses that pass children who are waiting to get to school. The children are not allowed on those buses because they are specified for particular schools, even though they are heading in the same direction. Instead, the children are forced to wait for a bus that is designed for the general public and is not marked as a school bus. We have children getting public buses on roads where cars are allowed to drive at a minimum of 50 mph. There are not even islands in the middle of the road to help children to cross.”
“In Knocknamuckley — near Bleary, for those who do not know — there is a busy, fast and dangerous road where children stand on a grass verge in order to get picked up by a Translink bus. There is absolutely no visibility for oncoming traffic.”
“Indeed, I have witnessed bus drivers drop children off at non-designated bus stops on busy roads with no footpaths. A significant number of bus stops are on country roads, with no footpaths or lay-bys for buses to pull into. Children use those stops daily. Schoolchildren are walking to bus stops on rural roads that have no footpaths. It is therefore not just an issue with bus stops but an issue of how children get to those bus stops in the first place on rural roads with no footpaths. My office regularly gets complaints from parents whose children get a private bus that the EA provides but still have to walk on rural roads to get the bus, because it is not a pickup service.”
“Of course, out of that, we want legislation. That includes the correct marking of buses. To add to the complication, around 4,800 children do not get free bus transport in year 1. Many travel on buses that are for the public, so there are schoolchildren on buses for the general public that are not marked. That is just the figure for year 1 pupils. Remember the lifetime of the child: if they do not get free bus transport in year 1, they are not going to get it in years 2 to 7, so the number increases. Remember also that 4,800 pupils get taxis and that 8,800 use private buses, mostly unmarked. <BR /> <BR />Of course, the motion is bigger than making sure that vehicles stop for school buses. That is the tip of the iceberg. It is also fair to say that bus stop infrastructure is, in some places, not fit for purpose.”
“The vast majority of buses that are used to ferry children to and from school are not Education Authority (EA) buses but Translink or private-company buses. They are not as clearly marked as many of us would think or would like. For example, of the 91,500 children who availed themselves of public transport to and from school in 2023, only 21,000 did so in an EA-marked bus. It is therefore near impossible for drivers to know that they are to stop for pupils because it is a school bus, because, in many cases, they do not know that it is a school bus. That is why our amendment:”
“I hope that Members will listen to my words, because they are positive, and the issue is far more complicated than people think. Let me explain. The motion:”
“Thank you. Mr Deputy Speaker. First, I acknowledge the tragic death of Caitlin-Rose McMullan, Caitlin Hogg and the other schoolchildren who have been killed or injured owing to our poor road safety and infrastructure. I know that my words will never ease the families' grief, but I commend them for the courage that they have shown in that grief. <BR /> <BR />I also commend Mr Durkan for proposing what is an important motion. The Member for Foyle is right to focus on improving safety for all children who transit to and from school. On that point, the Ulster Unionist Party supports the premise of the motion. We have a number of issues with it, however. Our amendment is not designed to derail the motion but to add value to it in a positive way.”
“I ask Members to look at our amendment and see that we have not taken away the key components of the Sinn Féin motion, but we have brought nuance that allows us to look at items that we held, some with shame, and remember that we can learn from that. In learning, we can make sure that we do not repeat what we did in the past.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have no issue with certain items, such as ancient Hawaiian remains and artefacts, being returned, but to completely sanitise our museum collections would remove a key asset in learning. My party's amendment makes it clear that we must protect and preserve items of cultural and historical importance whilst supporting National Museums Northern Ireland's ethical policies. We can do so by understanding who we are, where we came from, what influenced us and who we influenced, and what our impact on the world was, positive and negative. We cannot just wish any of this away; we need to preserve it. In preserving it, we learn. I learn, you learn and our children learn by seeing these items.”
“To me, learning about and understanding other cultures and people is important, while protecting and caring for our own history. I am a great believer in protecting our indigenous heritage. Some will know that I have raised many issues in regard to Knock Iveagh, a neolithic site just outside Rathfriland that is older than the Pyramids. We stuck a wind turbine on top of it. The Ballintaggart giant gravestones, a 6,000-year-old court tomb that we excavated in 1966, sat idle in the Ulster Museum before being replaced not to the original site where they were ripped up from but to somewhere else. It is a failure of our historical environment division that sits alongside the destruction of an early Christian rath in Waringstown. I add that the present Minister was not in the chair at any stage of that.”
“How about a spear from Benin, a colonial artefact from the French protectorate — it was not colonised by the British — donated following an expedition in the area? What can we learn from that about the culture of the time? A bronze manilla or bracelet from West Africa — without a doubt, from when the area was colonised. It was used as currency in the slave trade. Can we learn from that? Can we expose the collective shame of the slave trade or just return the manilla in order to sanitise our museum collection? I say that the former is more important. A Solomon Islands tomako — war canoe — from the World Cultures collection is an important artefact in understanding the cultures and civilisations of the time.”
“There is even a Cromwellian armoured breastplate with a musket ball through the chest. Should that be returned as stolen loot? I do not think so. It needs to be held, retained and used as an aid to learning. <BR /> <BR />Of course, there are items in Northern Ireland museums that you could put down to colonialism, because, hundreds of years ago, that is how the world was. It was a world of exploration and understanding but with primitive knowledge of the impact on various cultures. No matter how hard we try, we cannot fix what happened two, three or four centuries ago, but we can learn. Museums help us learn, and the stuff that is retained in them helps us understand better.”
“Sanitising such collections does not help us learn. Museums need to help us learn, and, for generations to come, an understanding of our shared history is a story worth telling. Part of that has an expeditionary nature to it, given the British and Irish impact globally. Even the negative impact tells a story. <BR /> <BR />The Sinn Féin motion mentions "colonialism ... on this island". That includes the 15,000 ecological items in Irish museums from Africa, Asia and the Far East that the Irish collections provenance working group identified before it was disbanded 2023, with no action being taken to return any of them. They are not on display; they are just being held. It also includes two highly sacred whale teeth from the Solomon Islands, which were donated in 1900.”
“Some would be lost, if they were not protected. Do we need to protect artefacts? Are they in danger? Let us take ourselves to Dublin in 1966, when Nelson's pillar, which dated back to 1808 and marked an important moment of our history, was deliberately reduced to rubble by an IRA bomb. It was not dismantled and returned to the UK, possibly to the national museum; it was just destroyed due to hatred of others' history and culture. We saw the similar destruction of artefacts in Afghanistan when the 6th-century Bamiyan Buddhas were destroyed by the Taliban in 2001 and when ISIS destroyed the great Baalshamin temple at Palmyra in Syria. <BR /> <BR />Museums have a role to protect, preserve and make artefacts available. That assists learning and understanding of cultures past and present. National Museums NI states:”
“For us, the museum is a place of learning and understanding our past, the shared history, the global cultures and the painful parts of our past. Clearly, returning ancient remains and artefacts to Hawaii was the right thing to do, but was that part of decolonisation? The artefacts in question were donated to the museum by Mr Gordon Augustus Thomson, an ethnologist who studied people and culture. He was not part of any colonisation of the Hawaiian Islands or Sandwich Islands, when he visited them in 1835. Indeed, the UK is held in such high regard in Hawaii that the Union flag still forms part of the Hawaiian national flag and Great Seal. <BR /> <BR />Many items in museums in Northern Ireland are protected and preserved and tell a story. Some were acquired through conflict; some through expeditions; and some via trade.”
“For example, National Museums NI clearly states that it is:”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have to start by saying, although I will not dwell on the issue, that there is a certain irony in a Sinn Féin motion that includes returning human remains to Hawaii while we still wait for the return of the human remains of those who were disappeared. I ask the party opposite to use the influence that it still exerts on those responsible to have the remains of Columba McVeigh, Joe Lynskey, Seamus Maguire and Robert Nairac repatriated to their families. <BR /> <BR />I have to admit that, when I first read the motion, I had two thoughts. First, the motion sounded like a bit of Brit-bashing. Secondly, the motion lacks any kind of nuance and is grounded purely on decolonisation without looking at what else museums offer, particularly education and learning. Our amendment aims to address that.”
“Let us not just trade angry words across the Chamber when we know that we could have done things in this Building that accommodated both the LGBTQI+ community and women's rights.”
“The amendment from People Before Profit ignores medical advice and the potentially serious risks associated with puberty blockers, including reduced bone density, reduced fertility and changes in adult height. Therefore, I cannot support it. <BR /> <BR />I do not want to see the LGBTQI+ community treated as any less than anyone else. I want a no-tolerance view of homophobia, transphobia and biphobia. At the same time, I do not want to see women's rights trampled over just for a vote or to get yourself invited to pride. Let us look at both. Let us come up with a practical solution instead of sucking our teeth and giving not an inch, even if that inch is where we will end up anyway. There are solutions. People in the House know that: solutions have been put on the table, and people have ignored them. Let us find the solutions.”
“That is not so. We do not have every word to exactly meet what we want to say, but, from working on that strategy, I take it that there is an endgame to it and that a strategy will be produced. I do not speak for all women — I do not pretend to — but a large number of women have contacted me on the issue, and I am representing what they said. <BR /> <BR />The DUP amendment goes to the heart of women's rights, and, while the motion is not about women's rights, given the recent Supreme Court ruling, it has a direct effect on them. This is the challenge: how do we support the LGBTQI+ community without causing the diminution of women's rights? It can be done. Legally, indeed, it should be done. Anyone who ignores the rights of women and of the LGBTQI+ community simply fails both. I will support the motion and the DUP amendment.”
“That is the absolute minimum that we should be providing, be that through service delivery, sporting bodies or the advice and language that is used by public bodies.”
“The inability of some people to accept them for who they are has an adverse effect, and widespread discrimination has, at times, led to violence. None of that is acceptable. <BR /> <BR />Nowhere in the Assembly do I see anybody advocating that the rights of the LGBTQI+ community be undermined. There is a reality, however, that individuals' rights will, at times, conflict with other rights. That is something that can be dealt with comprehensively with a sexual orientation strategy. That leads me to the DUP amendment, which is a statement of fact. I say again that it should not be controversial for women to want their own spaces or sports or to have language associated with them. Women want privacy, safety and dignity.”
“My belief, based on expert safety advice, that the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) was right to ban transgender woman from women's rugby was not popular, but I accepted the dissenting voices with respect. I did so even when they asked for the mic to be taken away from me. <BR /> <BR />It is worth remembering that it was an Ulster Unionist, Jeffrey Dudgeon, who, in 1981, successfully brought the UK Government to court in order to end the criminalisation of homosexuality in Northern Ireland. That was only the start of a long road to equality that now sees the LGBTQI+ community being a protected group under equality legislation. The LGBTQI+ community exists and cannot be washed or wished away. Without a doubt, members of that community have suffered bullying, particularly at school and in the workplace.”
“I am mindful that what we say today will have an effect on many sections of our society. Therefore, I hope that we remain respectful. As somebody who has supported the LGBTQI+ community in the past by, for example, tabling the first motion on ending conversion therapy, supporting same-sex marriage and attending various events to promote the community, I have always tried to ensure that my language is respectful, even when there have been differences of opinion. A difference of opinion is not homophobia, transphobia or biphobia; it is a difference of opinion. When I spoke at a pride talk in 2023, as I have done on multiple occasions, those differences came to the fore.”
“If you do not mind, I will not. <BR /> <BR />The Minister would, of course, bite back by referring to the Opposition's non-existent Budget proposals. However, he is the Finance Minister, and, as the Finance Minister, it is up to him to tell us how he will close the annual gap of £0·5 billion, because, in the absence of any proposal from him, that is glaring.”
“<BR /> <BR />Were the Minister here, he would, of course, bite back, but he is not here. I join the chorus of others saying that it is absolutely disgraceful that he is not here.”