Dame Chi Onwurah
MP for Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West · Labour · United Kingdom
“An extraordinary debate is going on right now inside and outside AI companies about whether the possibility of AI destroying humanity is more or less than 10%. The European Union is moving ahead with a comprehensive AI regulatory framework, but the UK continues to rely on existing regulation.”
“The Pope also highlighted how the billions of online digital twins constitute an unprecedented concentration of power in the hands of a small number of men. Among the many consequences of the 40 years of neoliberalism repeatedly called out by the Prime Minister is a libertarian attitude to technology.”
“But this stealth digital twinning violates the integrity, uniqueness and very personhood of our constituents and of all of us. Digital twins can take many forms, from content creation algorithms and deepfakes to chatbots that reflect aspects of our personalities back at us. It is particularly worrying when children are the target.”
“The automated version of our kids will grow with them, using the power of AI to target advertising and products at them, and worse. The Science, Innovation and Technology Committee has heard about some of the tragic consequences of online grooming by algorithms and chatbots—a vulnerable boy persuaded to kill himself; a vulnerable girl fed…”
“In the arts, entertainment and tech industries, many performers are agreeing to the creation and use of digital replicas as part of their work—think of ABBA Voyage. But performers increasingly encounter unauthorised digital replicas of themselves, which pose a threat to their career, livelihood and reputation.”
“Since then, deepfakes have proliferated. The hon. Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman) was shown crossing the Floor in Parliament to join Reform, to his constituents’ consternation and his own—it was a fake. Then there were the horrendous photos of naked women and girls that Elon Musk’s AI created on demand.”
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“Pioneered in academia, these approaches are now established in mainstream biotech and importantly the regulators have moved to increasingly accept these non-animal models as reliable. Innovations such as retinal organoids, produced by Newcells Biotech, are being used globally to support the development of drugs that cure blindness, demonstrating the power of these new alternatives.” He went on to say: “While the prospect of fully replacing animal testing is likely to be at least a decade away, that prospect is no longer beyond the horizon and certainly significant reductions in animal testing will be driven through innovation and awareness within this timescale.””
“On toxicity testing, the UK-based company XCellR8 has developed the AcutoX test as a humane alternative to the LD50 test, which involves giving increasing doses of toxic substances to groups of animals until 50% of them are killed. Just this month, Newcells Biotech, a spinout from Newcastle University based in my constituency, raised over £2 million from the North East Fund for its models of the retina, kidney and lung, which are used in drug development and which reduce reliance on animal testing. The chief executive officer, Dr Mike Nicholds, told me: “Over the last 10 years, advances in stem cell biology, 3-D bioprinting and high-content analytical methods such as transcriptomics have revolutionised our ability to build laboratory mimics of human tissues that can reduce the use of animals in the early stages of drug discovery.”
“I thank the hon. Member for her intervention. I was not implying support for a specific type of testing, but making a general point: some have argued in the past that animal testing has been necessary to save human lives, and groups such as Understanding Animal Research argue that currently. Understanding Animal Research also gives the example of Duchenne muscular dystrophy, a lethal childhood disease, as a condition where canine models are effective. Science and innovation can show the way out of this moral maze. To take the example of testing on dogs, NC3Rs, the UK’s National Centre for the Replacement, Refinement and Reduction of Animals in Research, has established a project to develop a virtual second species—a virtual dog—using historical data.”
“That will not happen overnight, and animal testing in human health has long been embedded in our pharma sector. However, we will not advance human therapies and cures, as we should, if we continue to rely on animals that do not get the diseases that humans suffer from.”
“Responsive, proactive regulation will help to improve the uptake of new NAMs in accordance with the current regulations’ principles of replacement, thereby eliminating avoidable tests as soon as is practical. That would help to assure the public that their Government are moving in the right direction and doing things proactively. At the same time, our pro-innovation approach will create opportunities for entrepreneurs and innovators to develop and bring to market new NAMs, with a stable business environment and a path to market. Our ambition is clear, and the views of Members here today are well known. The opportunity is there to support NAMs development, drive the replacement of animal testing and support the welfare of all life—animal and human alike.”
“Before I entered Parliament, I worked for the regulator Ofcom, so I know that regulation can drive innovation and open up competition—or be a barrier to it. Labour is proposing a regulatory innovation office to help ensure that regulation does the former, not the latter. We need to take a proactive approach to ensuring that regulation reflects emerging methods of research if we are to drive forward scientific discovery and trials while reducing animal testing. With these new technologies, there is a huge opportunity to create new drugs much faster and for less money. Today, in the US, it takes an average of 12 years and $1 billion to create a drug, from initial filing with the FDA to FDA approval. These tools can provide significantly better possible targets for a therapy, reducing time and therefore costs.”
“With such advances, I am certain that our brilliant scientists and innovators can help provide workable alternatives to animal testing. Given our country’s strengths in artificial intelligence and data science, Britain can be at the forefront of this scientific revolution, which will make animal testing a thing of the past. I would, however, like to ask the Minister whether he considers that a priority. Estimates show that NAMs receive as little as 0.2% to 0.6% of UK medical research funding. Being a first mover in this field will bring with it jobs, investment, economic growth and better animal welfare. Will he therefore explain what the Government are doing to support British scientists and to incentivise them to proactively seek to use NAMs in British labs, creating a customer base to pull through new labs?”
“The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point, and I thank him for it. In his speech, he talked about some of the challenges around the existing regime. We have seen a huge growth in science, and in biotech specifically, which may, unfortunately, have led to increases in animal testing. But it is also true that the regulatory regime needs to reflect the advances in technology, and I will go on to talk about that. As well as chips and organoids, we have techniques such as proteogenomics, single-cell sequencing and access to human cell types that we did not previously have. For example, bit.bio, a leading UK cell-coding company, is able to manufacture human neurons that were previously available only through brain surgery.”
“My constituents’ anger and frustration with litter and fly-tipping has grown as £390 million-worth of Government cuts to Newcastle City Council’s budget has impacted on services. Children in particular complain to me about having to play in rubbish. My 15-point plan for rubbish sets out some of the additional powers councils need to address the scourge. Will the Minister meet me to discuss it, and will he back Labour’s plan for fixed penalty notices for fly-tippers?”
“The Horizon Post Office scandal has appalled the nation. Hundreds of sub-postmasters were wrongly prosecuted and convicted, and many were jailed, although they were entirely innocent of any fraud. On the other hand, covid-19 fraud is known and real. Estimates put it as high £16 billion, yet we have not clawed back a fraction of what has been stolen. Why were the innocent left to rot for so long, while the guilty go free to enjoy the fruits of their covid crime?”
“For me, the unreliability and unpredictability of bus services in the north-east is a continual frustration, but for many of my constituents, it is a blight on their life—a barrier between them and their work, their loved ones, their studies and their pastimes. It is a form of cruel and unusual punishment and, for some, a matter of life or death.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered real time bus information in the North East. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Bardell, and to open this important debate. I am pleased to see colleagues from the north-east here to support the motion. The Minister can rest assured that I will ask him when he last took a bus in the north-east, but I will start by talking about when I last did not take a bus. That was three days ago, when I chose to walk one and a half miles to Newcastle train station dragging a suitcase rather than wait at a bus stop for a bus that might not come. Had I been in London, I could have looked the information up on one of the many apps that show real-time bus information.”
“Why are bus operators in the north-east failing in their duty to provide the most basic information on the running of their services—services that are subsidised by public money?”
“In the recent snow, people were forced to wait at freezing bus stops, even if their homes were only metres away, because they did not have real-time bus info. I hope the Minister agrees that accurate, real-time bus information is a matter of safety and accessibility. When I asked a written parliamentary question on the topic last October, the then buses Minister, the right hon. Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden), gave a rosy picture. He told me that the Government had launched the bus open data service—BODS—in November 2020, with the legal obligation to publish data coming in from 1 January 2021. He said that 98% of buses have an automatic vehicle location device, and that developers have been able to use BODS to create apps for journey planning in the north-east. If all that is true, why have things gone so wrong?”
“Another commuter into Newcastle Central station tells me that their three-mile journey can take anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour because Stagecoach buses simply do not match the live times on the apps. I waited at a bus stop in Kenton for more than 45 minutes as a succession of Stagecoach buses failed to turn up. Critically, it was only two or three hours before a Newcastle United match, and many fans were debating whether it was better to walk the three miles to the stadium. I was at Haymarket bus station one evening when the bus we were waiting for disappeared from both the information board at the station and the app. Some left the queue, others phoned friends for lifts, but I clearly remember one distraught young girl on the phone to her mum trying to figure out how to get home safely.”
“As a self-confessed tech evangelist, I like to go on and on about how technology can improve all aspects of our life, including public transport. As an engineer, I know the challenges inherent in technology roll-out. However, this is not rocket science. Indeed, one enterprising Geordie, Mark Nelson, used the time he has spent waiting for buses to develop a bus tracker, which can be found on the SPACE for Heaton website. He told me that there are two key types of data missing that would make it usable by more people: cancelled services and the external factors affecting bus journey times. No matter how long bus companies force him to wait at bus stops, he cannot fix the bad and unreliable information that bus operators provide.”
“Information online is often incomplete, misleading or hard to locate.” It went on to say: “None of the most commonly-used public transport journey planning apps and websites yet provide comprehensive, accurate, England-wide local bus information”, and: “A number of apps and websites give inaccurate information when tested.” It also said: “Information at bus stops is often poor.” In a November 2021 debate on buses in the north-east secured by my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist), I mentioned a sign in Eldon Square that said, “Working with bus operators to bring you real-time travel information.” I said that the sign had been there for years. After I raised that in the debate, there was immediate action—they took the sign away. That is about all the action we have had under this Government.”
“People with cars may choose to drive instead, increasing the economic and environmental harms of traffic congestion. We want more people to travel by bus, which means making catching a bus as easy as possible. The difficulty in finding a bus to catch may be why we have seen a downward trend in local bus journeys in the north-east since 2010, and after covid-19 passenger numbers have struggled to climb much beyond 80% of pre-pandemic figures. In March 2021, the national bus strategy described one basic way to make travelling by bus easier: better real-time information. The strategy said: “It is too difficult for non-users to find where buses go.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Her passion highlights the importance of this issue for our constituents in Newcastle and across the north-east. Given that so many people rely on buses, it goes without saying that bus services should be reliable. The bus service improvement plan published just last year by Transport North East recognised that poor performance affects people who rely on the bus service, especially those from low-income households without cars. As my hon. Friend said, a cancelled or late bus can mean a missed doctor’s appointment, trouble at work or even being left stranded, which makes women and girls especially vulnerable. Long waits are also challenging for many disabled people. It is clearly unacceptable and a major barrier to travelling confidently and safely.”
“It is disgraceful that, when real-time bus information has been standard in London for years, we in the north-east still do not know when and if a bus is going to turn up. It shows what Tory levelling up really means: Geordies left to shiver at bus stops in the dark, both literally and metaphorically. Does the Minister accept that we need a Labour Government to fix our broken bus services? Finally, when did he last take a bus?”
“The legislation that created BODS requires that the Government publish a review of the regulations at least every five years. That deadline of July 2025 approaches. Specifically, will the Minister confirm that his officials will respond to the issues raised today, and that members of the public, or their representatives, will be able to provide feedback? Lastly, I want to question why the previous Minister gave such a rosy picture when I asked my question in October, when we all experience such difficulty in accessing real-time bus information. Does the Minister understand the very real issues that bus passengers in the north-east are experiencing? If so, will he retract and condemn the tone struck by his predecessor?”
“They are too open to human error—for example, when drivers decide to change their running boards early in their route—and they cannot account for simple things like a bus being at the start of its route. What are the Government doing to enable improvements in infra- structure, after more than a decade of local government cuts? It should not take MPs to get bus operators and Government working on this issue. Bus operators should be aware of the failings of their services. Where passengers find an issue, there must be a clear avenue to make a complaint and get redress. I note that the accessible information regulation, which applies to journey information while someone is on a bus, will have a clear complaints enforcement process; why can we not have something similar for the information needed before someone gets on the bus?”
“Nexus tells me there is no specific duty on bus companies around real-time information that it can enforce, but the previous Minister, the right hon. Member for North West Durham, told me that there is a duty to supply data. Does the Minister believe that local or regional decision makers should have the powers to enforce real-time information delivery to an agreed standard? As I know from my time working in competition regulation, standardisation does not stunt competition but enhances it, by allowing the best, most innovative apps to win out. When people travel across our region they should not have to download 10 apps in order to do so. There is also the problem that the technical systems and infrastructure underpinning those services do not guarantee a high enough standard of information.”
“Each bus company, whether it is Arriva, Stagecoach or Go North East, has an app and real-time feed, created to its own design and specification, decided by corporate headquarters HQ. I was told that the Arriva app is designed in Germany, making integration more challenging. Apparently, they did not know about the disappearing bus bug until I raised it with them, and they have still failed to respond to my letters. Will the Minister encourage them? Different operators provide their data feeds to different standards. Should the Government not use their levers—guidance, bus service improvement plans, city region sustainable transport settlements and so on—to ensure greater collaboration and standardisation in real-time bus information provision?”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her passionate intervention. I agree with her that local accountability would be a huge improvement, which is why I am excited about Labour’s plans to give every local authority the power to franchise their buses and reverse the ban on municipal bus ownership. This is what I would like to see: when someone gets off the train at Newcastle Central station and puts into an app one of our wonderful destinations—Benwell, Scotswood garden, St James’ park, Blakelaw community centre, Kenton School—I want them to know when a bus will come to take them there. Does the Minister agree that that must be the test? Why is it not happening? Nexus, the Tyne and Wear passenger transport executive, told me that the real-time systems for passengers in the north-east are “fragmented and need both investment and harmonisation”.”
“But the Minister is not answering my questions, and I fear—if it is in order, I will put it in this way—that he may be unintentionally misleading the House: he said that the Google app and other apps give people the information necessary to plan and control their journeys. Google does not provide real-time bus information in the north-east. If the Minister is not aware of that, he needs to spend more time on the buses and less time answering questions without giving the facts.”
“I did not mention bus drivers once. I do not know whether the Minister is reading from a previous speech, but I did not mention a shortage of bus drivers. The debate is on real-time information in the north-east. Can the Minister possibility speak to that?”
“Why can the National Audit Office not be allowed to demonstrate that?”
“The Secretary of State says that keeping children in school is her top priority, but since 2016 persistent absence in Newcastle has more than doubled and severe absence is up 282%. She says it is a global phenomenon, but what matters is what happens in schools in Newcastle. Labour’s plan for schools is supported by Sir Kevan Collins. Why will she not support it? What is she going to do about this, because we need to see change now?”
“T4. This month’s Joseph Rowntree Foundation report sets out how childhood poverty impacts on educational attainment, and how the consequences last a lifetime, entrenching intergenerational poverty. Forty-two per cent of children in Newcastle are growing up in poverty. Will the Secretary of State support Labour’s call for free breakfast clubs in every primary school, to give those children the best start in life?”
“Over the weekend, when the right hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Sir Simon Clarke) and I appeared on the excellent local media programme “Politics North”, it became obvious that Members on the Government Benches had an insight into the publication date and contents of the report, which Opposition Members did not. I am very glad that the report has been published, but to spin it as some kind of vindication of Mayor Ben Houchen is absolute nonsense. Given that is the spin that the Conservatives are going for, why will the Minister not demonstrate that Teesworks provides the value of money that he asserts by having an independent inquiry by the National Audit Office? The north-east gets little enough investment; we must make sure that every pound counts.”
“The Secretary of State talks about free and fair trade and about high standards, but there is nothing on labour rights in this CPTPP deal. Is that because she does not care about labour rights? Does she not think it matters whether UK businesses and workers have to compete with those producing products and services in circumstances where there are no trade union rights and no health and safety rights, for example? Is it because she does not care about labour rights, or because she was unable to negotiate anything?”
“Leaseholders in Leazes Park in Newcastle are having their lives ruined because their supposedly charitable freeholder, the St Mary Magdalene and Holy Jesus Trust, refuses to allow them to extend or buy their leaseholds. Across the constituency, in a cost of living crisis, my constituents face exorbitant management fees, high costs for fire safety and ever-increasing ground rents. Can the Minister tell my constituents why, when the Labour party is committed to comprehensive and fundamental reform of the leasehold system as set out by the Law Commission, he has brought forward a leasehold reform Bill that does not actually reform their leaseholds?”
“Hadrian’s Wall runs through the heart of Newcastle’s west end, but it is little celebrated or signposted, and the Hadrian’s Wall national trail does not actually follow the wall’s path through my constituency. What help can the Minister offer to local communities keen to celebrate this history, which is literally in their backyard?”
“Some 42% of children in Newcastle upon Tyne Central are growing up in poverty, 17% of households are in fuel poverty, and a fifth of adults are estimated to be in problematic debt. Does the Minister agree that a Government who cannot deliver economic prosperity for working people in the north-east are a Government who cannot deliver on socioeconomic equality?”
“The Minister will have access to intelligence—ours and that of our allies—that he may not be in a position to share with the House. Will he therefore share his understanding of the effectiveness of Israel’s campaign to weaken and eliminate Hamas and return the hostages, given the appalling and unacceptable loss of innocent Palestinian life—thousands and thousands of children have been maimed and killed—given the catastrophic humanitarian situation in Gaza, given that more than 100 Israeli hostages remain in captivity there, and given that Hamas continues to fire rockets into Israel every day?”
“T4. The cost to councils of delivering services will exceed their core funding by £2 billion this year. Newcastle expects a funding gap of £56 million, following £369 million of Conservative cuts to funding and years of Conservative economic failure. Can my constituents rely on council services under a Conservative Government?”
“The release of hostages and the increase in humanitarian aid is very much to be welcomed, but I am sure the Minister and the House agree that only a political solution can bring about a lasting peace. In that spirit, will he support Labour’s calls for a new middle east envoy? Also, I was not quite clear from his answer to the Chair of the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, so will he say that the UK state condemns and is utterly opposed to the settlements?”
“St James’ Park in the heart of Newcastle will be welcoming European football fans as part of Euro 2028, and we are very proud of that. Following the 2012 Olympics, sports participation did not increase. Will the Minister set out what the Government will do to ensure that the legacy of Euro 2028 is increased participation across Newcastle?”
“I welcome the Minister to his role. I hope he will share his predecessor’s enthusiasm for, and commitment to, science. Climate change presents huge challenges and huge opportunities. Labour would champion university clusters and spin-outs as engines of sustainable regional growth, but right now great green job-creating businesses such as Low Carbon Materials, a Durham University spin-out, and Airex, an award-winning retrofit start-up, are bogged down by Tory red tape, with some new products subject to 11 different regulators. Will the Minister adopt Labour’s proposal for a regulatory innovation office to unblock the system, end damaging uncertainty and drive much-needed growth?”
“I welcome the Home Secretary to his new position. One fifth of my constituency casework relates to his Department, and it is a catalogue of human misery. In just one example from the hundreds that I could give, the claimant’s asylum application was made in December 2020, their interview was in November 2022, and they are still waiting for a decision. The claimant has two young children and has twice attempted suicide. That all comes at huge cost to them, the NHS and the police. Will the Home Secretary get a grip, stop the “magical thinking” and just fix his Department and the asylum process?”
“The record speaks for itself. People in Newcastle upon Tyne Central would be better off with Labour. Under the Tories, disposable income is forecast to grow by just £42 between 2010 and 2025. Under Labour, it grew by £11,000 per person. The Tories low-growth, high-tax economy has meant hardship and setbacks for my constituents. We need a Labour Government and a Labour King’s Speech to restore pride and purpose to our country and to give Newcastle upon Tyne Central and the whole country our future back.”
“In our long-standing areas of strength, such as our world-renowned hospitality sector, which adds more than £300 million of GVA each year in my constituency, I can see enormous potential for growth, helped by Labour’s plans on business rates, energy markets and the planning system. Labour has a plan to make people across the whole country better off by growing the economy, boosting wages and bringing down bills. Our industrial strategy would bring together our excellent universities, skilled workforce and deep capital markets to turbocharge growth in constituencies such as mine. Our planning reforms would make it possible to build the infrastructure we need, and switching on Great British Energy would bring down bills, create hundreds of thousands of high-paid jobs and put the UK on course towards energy independence.”
“I am immensely proud of our local food banks such as West End food bank, Newcastle United supporters trust food bank and Kenton food bank. I am proud of the work of our council, and I am proud of the work of all the charities helping Geordies to survive, but it should not have to be this way. Newcastle’s wonderful industrial heritage inspired me to go into engineering. Whether it is renewable energy, life sciences, start-ups or innovative manufacturing, Newcastle has exciting prospects for the industries of the future and a green industrial manufacturing future.”
“It is little wonder that this year, the citizens advice bureau in Newcastle is on course to help more people with crisis support, food bank referrals and charitable support than in any other year on record. Behind each statistic, there is a living family. One example from Newcastle City Council’s cost of living helpline is of an adult with two children. The parent has not eaten anything for three days, saving food so that the kids can eat. There is no gas and no electricity. They are going to warm places in the city to spend the day and wrapping up in multiple layers at night. That is impacting on the mental health of everyone in the family. This is Newcastle in 2023 under the Tories. This is the human cost of Tory economic chaos.”
“That Tory failure will continue in my constituency. I see it on the doorstep, at my surgeries and on our streets, with young people trying to get on the housing ladder, but held back by Tory Britain’s systemic failure to build. We have businesses contending with inflation, as well as the scourge of late payments. We have pensioners choosing between heating and eating. Less than half of children in England saw a dentist in the past year. We have supermarket security tags on half a pound of butter. Some 42% of children in my constituency are growing up in poverty, 17% of households are in fuel poverty and almost one fifth of adults in Newcastle are estimated to be in problematic debt.”
“It is an honour and a privilege to represent the people of Newcastle upon Tyne Central. It is the city I grew up in and, quite simply, the best place in the world. My question in this King’s Speech debate is: why are the Government letting Newcastle down? Replacing the woman actually elected to lead his party, the Prime Minister promised to get the economy growing, but the IMF now forecasts that our country will have the lowest growth in the G7 next year, yet taxes are at their highest rate since 1949. What are my constituents paying for? It is not a better health service, better schools or safer streets; we are paying for Tory failure. This King’s Speech does nothing to change that. I suppose it should not be surprising that an old Harrovian failed Prime Minister thinks the answer is an old Etonian failed Prime Minister, but it is not.”
“The move to net zero should deliver tens of thousands of long-term, well-paid, green industrial jobs, but with her Government’s sticking-plaster policies the Minister is destroying both jobs and sovereign national capability. Is it really her intention to leave behind her a British steel sector that cannot make British virgin steel, and if not, what is her plan? Labour has an industrial strategy for green steel; why does she not have one as well?”
“As we see the humanitarian catastrophe unfolding in Gaza, with the terrible images of the dying, displaced and maimed, our focus must be on getting humanitarian aid to them and a humanitarian pause for them. As we look forward to a time when the bombing stops, does the Minister agree that the lack of focus on progressing a two-state solution over the past decade and more was a failure on the part of the international community? Will he set out something of what he will be doing to bring renewed focus on a just political settlement to the conflict in the region?”
“The Government’s mishandling of HS2 was and is absolutely staggering, but their attempt to pull the wool over northern eyes with Network North is a farce. Does the Minister really believe the people of the north-east are falling for his fag-end fake network to nowhere?”