Dame Chi Onwurah
MP for Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West · Labour · United Kingdom
“An extraordinary debate is going on right now inside and outside AI companies about whether the possibility of AI destroying humanity is more or less than 10%. The European Union is moving ahead with a comprehensive AI regulatory framework, but the UK continues to rely on existing regulation.”
“The Pope also highlighted how the billions of online digital twins constitute an unprecedented concentration of power in the hands of a small number of men. Among the many consequences of the 40 years of neoliberalism repeatedly called out by the Prime Minister is a libertarian attitude to technology.”
“But this stealth digital twinning violates the integrity, uniqueness and very personhood of our constituents and of all of us. Digital twins can take many forms, from content creation algorithms and deepfakes to chatbots that reflect aspects of our personalities back at us. It is particularly worrying when children are the target.”
“The automated version of our kids will grow with them, using the power of AI to target advertising and products at them, and worse. The Science, Innovation and Technology Committee has heard about some of the tragic consequences of online grooming by algorithms and chatbots—a vulnerable boy persuaded to kill himself; a vulnerable girl fed…”
“In the arts, entertainment and tech industries, many performers are agreeing to the creation and use of digital replicas as part of their work—think of ABBA Voyage. But performers increasingly encounter unauthorised digital replicas of themselves, which pose a threat to their career, livelihood and reputation.”
“Since then, deepfakes have proliferated. The hon. Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman) was shown crossing the Floor in Parliament to join Reform, to his constituents’ consternation and his own—it was a fake. Then there were the horrendous photos of naked women and girls that Elon Musk’s AI created on demand.”
The complete record
Every one of 5,139 lines we hold for Dame Chi Onwurah, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 15 of 103.
“What is the Minister doing to address adultification bias in our police and justice system, by which black children are systematically treated as adults and thus denied the basic protections to which they have a right, as we see in the report? Or will she dismiss it as more woke nonsense in order to hide her Government’s fundamental failure of leadership on this question?”
“Perfectly suitable accommodation is not easily available in Newcastle. I know that from the thousands of constituents who write to me desperately seeking it—it is the No. 1 issue. I also know it from talking to Afghan refugees, and Ukrainian refugees for that matter. What will the Minister do after 18 months to magic up this perfectly suitable accommodation, or will he seriously be making homeless those who risked their lives at our sides?”
“The Federation of Small Businesses has, in its own words, been “left feeling mystified” by the changes. The great businesses of Newcastle Central deserve a Government they can partner with to deliver jobs, growth and innovation. Fantastic life sciences start-ups and scale-ups, such as AMLo Biosciences, LightOx and NunaBio, and long-established innovative manufacturers, such as Spincraft, all deserve better. Labour will secure the highest sustained growth in the G7 through our long-term industrial strategy. A Labour Government will unleash the potential of the north-east. This Government just starve it.”
“This Budget was a chance for the Government to unlock Britain’s promise and potential—a chance to reverse 13 years of low growth, low productivity and low wages, and a chance to spread and deliver opportunities to people in Newcastle Central. What did we get? Just a handout for the richest 1% and their pension pots. The Chancellor likes to talk about making the UK a science superpower, yet he failed to mention Horizon Europe in the Budget. At €90 billion, it is the world’s largest science funding programme, but his Government have left our scientists out of it. At the same time, research and development tax credit policy is changing almost as fast as Chancellors, but with even less preparation. The Chancellor gave back only a fraction of the £4.5 billion he took from innovative small and medium enterprises in the autumn statement.”
“Regulated train fares have seen the highest increase since 2013 and, with the scrapping of HS2’s eastern leg, northern communities are paying the price for broken Tory promises. More than 7 million people are waiting for NHS treatment, often in pain and discomfort. Do not even think about trying to get an NHS dental appointment. In December, the north-east saw the longest wait times for accident and emergency, at four hours. The longer the Conservatives are in power, the longer people wait. In a statement last week, the Chancellor tried to claim that inflation was the root cause of strikes. Perhaps he forgot that it was his party, and this Government, who crashed the economy and left working people to pay for their mess.”
“Tory MPs and Government Ministers are offering the public budgeting advice when they have constructed an economy where the majority of people do not benefit from the wealth that innovation creates. In addition to lower wages, £300 million-worth of cuts to Newcastle City Council mean our city has poorer public services. On Newcastle’s streets, lone women are left stranded at 11 pm because we have lost 15% of our region’s bus services in a single year. Of those buses we have left, just a fifth turn up on time. Businesses cannot open, because their workforce are delayed on different bus services. Across the board, and across our country, people are paying more for shoddy services.”
“Over their entire lives, they have seen their parents, their aunts, their uncles, their brothers and their sisters all getting poorer. There are Conservative Members of Parliament representing seats in the north-east, and I ask them this: did they set out to make people poorer, or did it just happen through incompetence and arrogance? It did not have to be this way. If the Conservatives had mirrored Labour’s rate of growth, workers in the north-east would be £11,000 a year richer. What a difference that would make. We would not have half the children of Newcastle growing up in poverty and we would not have 100,000 people in the north-east forced to use food banks.”
“This was a business-as-usual Budget, but after 13 years of economic failure, what my constituents desperately need is change. In the north-east of England, wages in real terms are on average 3% lower today than when Labour left office in 2010. I would like the House to think about that for a moment. Over 13 years of Conservative Government, my constituents have got poorer. Politicians are often asked if we know the price of a loaf of bread, so let me take that as an example. In May 2010, it was £1.16. In January this year, it was £1.39, a rise of 20%. How about a pint of milk? In May 2010, it cost 44p. In January this year, it was 69p, a rise of 57%. Prices have gone up, and wages have not kept pace. Last Friday, I visited Atkinson Road Primary Academy in my constituency and heard from the absolutely wonderful students there.”
“Across the country, our regions are home to thousands of brilliant science start-ups and spin-outs, but they are being hit by a Tory quadruple whammy: slashing R&D tax credits, leaving with them an average of £100,000 less to spend on research a year; a £120-million cliff-edge loss of European regional development funding; lack of access to capital—the UK has the lowest business investment in the G7; and continuing uncertainty over association with the £95-billion Horizon Europe, the biggest science fund in the world. Which of those barriers to growth for our innovative businesses will the Minister sort out today?”
“18. What plans he has for engagement with the Government of Nigeria and other interested parties following the recent elections in that country.”
“The UK has a vibrant and engaged Nigerian diaspora. I know; I count myself one of them. Ndi Igbo North East England, in my constituency, has expressed concerns about serious failures of technology, security and communications in last month’s presidential elections, as has the European Union. Given that the Government have provided financial support to Nigerian civil society on election integrity, and technical advice to the Nigerian independent national electoral commission, what does the Minister think went wrong?”
“The Minister said, “The system worked.” Certainly, it was a huge relief that the estimated 50% of the UK tech sector that banked with SVB UK could today pay their suppliers and staff. However, surely that highlights the lack of diversity of capital available to the UK tech sector, and our dependence on the US. In the last two years, Silicon Valley Bank’s deposits tripled, but its exposure to Treasuries, and therefore to interest rate rises, went up ninefold. Is the Minister seriously saying that no one on this side of the Atlantic should have noticed that, and that it had no impact on what happened?”
“With our ambitious national missions, Labour would stoke the innovation engine to drive high-skilled growth, access new and diverse talent pools and catalyse regions that have been left out of science investment. I fear that this framework is another wish list designed to be shelved or scrapped at the earliest convenience of a Government addicted to sticking-plaster policies. Only a Labour Government, with our long-term industrial strategy, will deliver the science sector and the jobs that our country needs.”
“Did the Secretary of State really think that she could get through the statement without even mentioning it? Thanks to the Tories, our brightest and best UK scientists are still having to choose between the funding that they desperately need and the country that they love. British research and British business are feeling the chilling impact of not being part of the world’s greatest scientific collaboration. Can the Secretary of State confirm that now that the Windsor framework has been agreed, Horizon association will follow? Specifically, will the Chancellor’s Budget next week include association funding? Labour believes that innovation and science are critical to building strong and self-sufficient national and regional economies. We see a clear path from investing in scientific research to the jobs that people can raise a family on.”
“The Government promised that science spend will double, but the framework talks of raising science spend outside the greater south-east by only 40%. That suggests that our regional centres of innovation will not benefit from this increased funding. Is that all she has to say about the importance of regional innovation? What of the clusters that the Science Minister talks up so much? Start-ups and scale-ups are key to sustainable green growth, but the £10 million uplift to the seed fund mentioned here would not meet the early-stage funding requirements of one future Google. Will the Government adopt the recommendations of Labour’s start-up and scale-up review to drive innovative growth across our country? The biggest question is what is not in the framework—Horizon Europe, the world's biggest science programme.”
“When will each critical technology have the appropriate regulatory framework that she talked about? Science-driven industries critical to our future prosperity, such as space, autonomous vehicles, batteries and steel, are not even mentioned. Labour has committed to an industrial strategy council on a statutory footing. Do Government have an industrial strategy? The framework rightly says that procurement is key to innovation. Why, then, have the Government objected to our amendments to the Procurement Bill to ensure that procurement is not captured by cronyism? The Government committed to £22 billion of science funding by 2027. Will the Secretary of State say what the current funding commitment is now? How much of the £370 million mentioned in the framework is truly new? If it is new, how is she paying for it?”
“It is good to see the Government setting out the principles for identifying the scientific capabilities that we need to protect and grow, and the outcomes that we wish to see from science, as well as seeking to increase STEM skills in teaching and support for start-ups and spin-outs. On the eve of International Women’s Day, and as a chartered engineer, I enthusiastically welcome the ambition to diversify the science and technology workforce. Let us work together to make that ambition a reality. I have a number of questions for the Secretary of State. How do the five critical technologies in the framework relate to the 17 sensitive areas in the National Security and Investment Act 2021, and the five key growth industries in the autumn statement?”
“I welcome the Secretary of State to her place, and I thank her for the advance notice of her statement. I welcome the framework. It will take pride of place on my virtual bookshelf next to the Government’s innovation strategy, the R&D road map, the science plan, numerous grand challenges, industrial strategies, sector deals and two UKRI reorganisations. We have seen nine changes of Science Minister in five years. Britain is a world-leading science nation, and we deserve a framework with a longer shelf life than a lettuce, especially given the shortage of salad items under this Government.”
“As the recent Britishvolt investment shows, the north-east has real strengths in growing sectors such as battery technology, green energy and life sciences. Does the Minister agree that it is not possible for nationally controlled training programmes to really support people into employment in these emerging sectors? Will he therefore devolve responsibility to those in local areas who know local skills and local opportunities?”
“In Newcastle, we need reliable, affordable and accessible bus services, but all we get is lame excuses and short-term sticking plasters. Will the Secretary of State confirm that the bus recovery grant will be extended past June, and when will he make the much-promised, long overdue payment of £163 million to Transport North East so that it can improve services?”
“I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his Bill, which is an example of the much-needed modernisation of legal processes and—as he said—the efficiency and ease of access that digitalisation can bring. Does he agree that in addition to maintaining the paper route and providing efficiency and ease of access through the digital route, it is important to put greater emphasis on increasing digital literacy, particularly for under-represented groups?”
“The earthquakes in Syria and Turkey have shocked and appalled us all. For the Turkish and Syrian communities in Newcastle, that horror is particularly close. They want to know why so many died, why it was so deadly and what they can do to help. Can the Minister give us his understanding of why so many relatively new buildings collapsed? Will he also look at the issue of cross-border remittances, so that the proceeds of the extensive fundraising that diaspora communities are undertaking can be transferred as effectively, easily and quickly as possible?”
“My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does he agree that the lack of support for a workforce plan, and the deliberate running down of the NHS, will prevent it from being able to take on and take up changes in technology, innovation, processes and treatment that could ensure better healthcare with less cost, enabling the NHS of the future to provide the support and treatment that the British people deserve?”
“I am pleased to hear the Minister say that it is the Government’s duty to look at every available option. During the pandemic, I take it that she clapped on her doorstep for the NHS workforce who did so much to get us through it, so why will she not look at the option of abolishing the non-dom tax loophole, to fund more nurses and doctors and a better NHS in future?”
“The issues with the Northern Ireland protocol have damaged our communities, our economy and our democracy, so of course I welcome the agreement and look forward to a better working relationship with the European Union, including on science. When the Northern Ireland protocol delays meant that we could not associate with the Horizon programme, the Government committed that every penny meant for science would be spent on science. Some £2.5 billion was set aside for association with Horizon and £900 million was spent on guarantees, but, last week, £1.5 billion was quietly taken out of the budget and back to the Treasury. Now that the Prime Minister has the deal, will he commit to deliver his promises on science?”
“May I ask him what work the Government are doing to ensure that emergency services within the UK are similarly resilient?”
“Four years on, the Defence Committee has reported: “with tens of millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money spent…the Government appears no closer to coming to any conclusions about development of the UK’s own space-based Position, Navigation and Timing (PNT) capabilities.” The result is that our critical national infrastructure within the UK is now dependent on a foreign-owned GNSS over which the Government have no influence. That includes our emergency services. In outlining the rationale for requiring Galileo compatibility in smartphones, the European Commission argued for the importance of securing the independence and resilience of emergency services within the European Union. I hope that the Minister understands and agrees with that objective.”
“Another pertinent issue raised by the draft statutory instrument is its relationship to the GNSS that is owned by the European Commission—Galileo. The EU regulation introduced by this instrument requires that all smartphones are compatible and interoperable with the Galileo system. That requirement is unlikely to have practical implications within Northern Ireland, as all mobile phones produced by major manufacturers are already capable of operating Galileo. However, it does raise questions concerning the UK’s technological sovereignty following our expulsion from the Galileo programme. In 2018, the Government threatened to spend the entire UK science budget on duplicating Galileo, because the Government had bungled negotiations on Galileo with the European Union.”
“Indeed, I understand that advanced mobile location, a technical solution endorsed by the EU, has been fully deployed in Google and Apple phones in this country. Given that a legal requirement would have a minimal impact on manufacturers—because the technology is already widespread, and does not require any hardware, as discussed—can the Minister assure me that his Department has made a thorough assessment of the potential of placing this standard on a legal footing in the rest of the United Kingdom? Those on the Conservative Benches tend to see regulation as a dirty word, but it can enable and shape effective markets. Given that hybrid positioning technology is literally life-saving, will the Government keep their word that they will keep the matter under review?”
“The question must therefore be asked of the Government is why the legislation has not been introduced in England, Scotland or Wales. I note that the Minister said that 95% of all smartphones already meet the requirements, but I wonder what assessment he made of the incremental cost of introducing the legislation. The response provided by the Government to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee highlighted this draft instrument as of interest. The Department—then operating as Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, before the shuffling of the deckchairs—told SLSC that it thought the requirement unnecessary, as hybrid positioning technology is already widely adopted in new smartphones in the UK.”
“Historically, caller location was based upon identification of the coverage area of nearby cell towers. Tests carried out by the European Union found that GNSS location accuracy ranged from 6 metres to 28 metres, a significant improvement on the 1.5 km to 5 km precision range of cell ID. Furthermore, a hybrid system based on a combination of GNSS, wi-fi and cell-ID positioning will increase reach in environments where radio signal is compromised, such as urban canyons or narrow streets, where buildings obstruct visibility of satellites. It is no overstatement, therefore, to say that this technology saves lives. The faster a patient’s location is identified, the faster the emergency services can reach them and the faster they can receive treatment.”
“That regulation imposes an additional essential requirement on smartphone manufacturers to support technical solutions for the reception and processing of location data derived from wi-fi signals and data from GNSS for the purpose of making emergency communications more effective. According to the European Telecommunications Standards Institute, one of the biggest challenges facing the emergency services is determining the location of mobile callers. Ambulance service measurements show that, on average, 30 seconds per call can be saved if a precise location is automatically provided. Several minutes can be saved where callers are unable to describe their location verbally, which can happen due to stress, injury or simple unfamiliarity with the area.”
“The Leader of the Opposition made it clear that, despite the poor implementation of the deal by this Government, we welcome attempts to make the protocol work more effectively, and we are committed to working with all parties to ease tensions and find a way forward. By supporting this statutory instrument, we are fulfilling a treaty commitment and working to ensure that Britain is a country where international laws are respected and followed. However, that is not to say that we do not have questions or concerns arising from the introduction of this statutory instrument, and I will briefly go through them. The regulation that this instrument intends to implement was introduced by the EU via secondary legislation in 2018.”
“Attempts by the Government to renege on this agreement and unilaterally change the protocol have risked Britain’s reputation as a dependable country that plays by the rules. Three years after we left the European Union, the Government’s progress on fixing the protocol that they negotiated has been woeful. We are pleased to understand that there may be a deal on the table, but the Prime Minister refused to be drawn on the details of that deal at Prime Minister’s questions today and could not confirm that the deal being negotiated will see Northern Ireland continue to follow some EU laws, such as this statutory instrument, in order to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship for the first time, Dame Maria, and I hope it is not the last. I am sure Members will welcome me saying that we will not oppose this delegated legislation, and therefore I will not detain the Committee longer than is necessary. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] That met with approval on all sides. Having spent 23 years in the telecoms industry designing and rolling out networks of this type, this subject is of great interest to me, but I recognise that that is not shared to the same extent by the entire Committee. The effect of this instrument is to implement an EU regulation on requirements for smartphones in Northern Ireland, as per the terms of what I note the Minister referred to as the “current” Northern Ireland protocol.”
“Thank you for that guidance, Dame Maria. I am just trying to establish that the Minister believes that the emergency services, which will now be subject to different regulatory requirements, have the technical capacity. I appreciate that the hon. Member for Lichfield is gobsmacked, but I am often equally gobsmacked by his contributions, so perhaps that is not surprising. Does the Government recognise the resilience issue, given that that is part of the reason why the SI was introduced by the European Commission?”
“Thank you, Dame Maria. Why has it taken the Government four years to introduce the draft SI? Might there be implications for the UK space sector in location applications being unable to be supported by UK sovereign capability? I hope the Minister will address the longer-term implications of the divergence and the resilience of, and support for, the emergency services, which we all wish to be—”
“In response to the point of order, I am not sure whether the hon. Member for Lichfield is saying that there is no issue with our emergency services, even though this delegated legislation, the draft SI, specifically states that it is a requirement to improve the resilience of the emergency services. He might need to discuss that with his Minister, if they have a difference of opinion.”
“I am glad to see that the hon. Member for Lichfield is as amusing as he always is—even if he is not as accurate as he should be. The debate has been much livelier than was anticipated—”
“And longer than was anticipated—thanks to so many contributions from the hon. Member for Lichfield. I hope that the Minister will address seriously the concerns about the difference in requirements within the United Kingdom because of this delegated legislation. What are the implications for smartphone market resilience and national sovereign capability in the future?”
“Fewer than one in 50 recorded rapes results in a charge and it takes two years on average for a rape case to come to court. I hope the Minister will congratulate Northumbria’s police and crime commissioner, Kim McGuinness, on introducing independent sexual violence champions to support victims in their journey through the criminal justice system in the face of the massive failure of his Government, which is retraumatising victims. Will he agree to the immediate roll-out of specialist rape courts to prioritise rape victims, to which Labour is committed?”
“We are on our way to Wembley, and I am sure the Minister will join me in wishing every success to Newcastle United in the league cup final on Sunday. However, he must know that even that success will not erase the years of anger and frustration at unsuitable, unaccountable, and sometimes downright dodgy ownership within a Premier League that is out of touch and does not seem to care about fans. Fans should be at the heart of football, but this Government are messing with the heart and soul of fans. Will the Minister commit now that the White Paper will institute an independent regulator and that fans will have real power in the beautiful game, and that those measures will be in place by the start of the next season?”
“If the Minister is going to say that it will not go ahead, which I would welcome, he still has to explain why he allowed our important creative industries to languish in such doubt and uncertainty, and to promise that in future he will take a more active role to ensure that technological change supports our great industries.”
“The UK is already well positioned to benefit from the transformation that AI can bring, but we need to look ahead to future risk, such as the potential for opaque AI systems to diverge from our intended objectives. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that the next Adele or the next Stormzy does not have their work stolen and sold by an algorithm? For what reason has the IPO—for which he is responsible—not held discussions with the music industry, and will it now do so following this debate? What discussions has he had with the Minister responsible for the creative industries to assess the impact of the proposals? Finally, did the IPO make an estimate of how much the proposed exception will contribute to the economy, whether in AI sectoral growth or in creative industries’ loss?”
“Last week, the singer, Rick Astley, filed a lawsuit against another musician for the impersonation of the classic hit, “Never Gonna Give You Up”. We are talking about a charter for the automation and industrialisation of such impersonations. I fail to understand why the income of our artists, musicians and creators is being risked in that way. As part of Labour’s industrial strategy, we will shape and regulate AI technologies for the public good, increasing productivity, delivering better public services and improving the quality of life for all. That is how we grow our AI sector, not by throwing creators and artists under a bus.”
“The IPO’s proposals include the introduction of a new copyright exception in order to promote AI, as we heard. That would remove the need for a licence and cut the opportunity for performers or creators to be remunerated for their work and talent. The House of Lords Communications and Digital Committee’s report on the future of the creative industries called that proposal “misguided” and asked the Government to halt the proposals. Not only would they undermine the basic principles on which our creative industries are based, but they could enable international businesses to scrape content created by others and users for commercial gain without payment to the original creators here in the UK. As the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said, it could very much undermine our competitiveness in this key area.”
“It is a great pity, then, that the Government’s creativity seems to be limited to finding excuses for their misbehaviour and their lack of active engagement in our great industries. To the Conservatives, it appears that regulation is a dirty word, but as my right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (John Spellar) pointed out, the right regulation can support and enhance our great industries. The digital may present a new technological frontier, but our creative industries and the AI sector do not need to be in conflict with each another. Indeed, as the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) emphasised, AI can support and has huge potential for the creative industries, but creators need the ability to enforce their rights over their work.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I congratulate the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) on securing this vital debate on the potential impact of artificial intelligence on intellectual property rights for creative workers. I thank all the Members who took part and observe that although each Member who spoke before the Front-Bench speeches was from a different political party, they were united in condemning the proposals, and for very good reasons. From the Brontë sisters to the Beatles, from Jane Austen to Arlo Parks, from David Bowie to Sam Fender, we are and have always been a country of creators. More than 3.2 million people in the UK are employed in creative sectors, and Government figures estimate that our creative industries contributed £115 billion to our economy before the pandemic.”
“I think the Minister will find that rather than our leading the way on AI regulation, both the US and the European Union have already made strides in AI regulation that it would be good for us to respond to. I wonder whether he inadvertently made an announcement with regard to the National Science and Technology Council, which he said the Prime Minister has chaired. Previous Prime Ministers have chaired it, but it was my understand that the new version was not going to be chaired by the Prime Minister. Is it chaired by the Prime Minister?”
“Wages in the north-east are 3% lower than when Labour left office, and households have lost £11,000 in wage growth under the Conservatives. Now, according to the IMF forecast, we will get poorer still, as prices rise and the economy contracts because the Conservatives have crashed it. Did the Minister come into politics to make people poorer? If not, is it not time for a Labour Government to deliver prosperity for the British people?”