Dame Chi Onwurah
MP for Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West · Labour · United Kingdom
“An extraordinary debate is going on right now inside and outside AI companies about whether the possibility of AI destroying humanity is more or less than 10%. The European Union is moving ahead with a comprehensive AI regulatory framework, but the UK continues to rely on existing regulation.”
“The Pope also highlighted how the billions of online digital twins constitute an unprecedented concentration of power in the hands of a small number of men. Among the many consequences of the 40 years of neoliberalism repeatedly called out by the Prime Minister is a libertarian attitude to technology.”
“But this stealth digital twinning violates the integrity, uniqueness and very personhood of our constituents and of all of us. Digital twins can take many forms, from content creation algorithms and deepfakes to chatbots that reflect aspects of our personalities back at us. It is particularly worrying when children are the target.”
“The automated version of our kids will grow with them, using the power of AI to target advertising and products at them, and worse. The Science, Innovation and Technology Committee has heard about some of the tragic consequences of online grooming by algorithms and chatbots—a vulnerable boy persuaded to kill himself; a vulnerable girl fed…”
“In the arts, entertainment and tech industries, many performers are agreeing to the creation and use of digital replicas as part of their work—think of ABBA Voyage. But performers increasingly encounter unauthorised digital replicas of themselves, which pose a threat to their career, livelihood and reputation.”
“Since then, deepfakes have proliferated. The hon. Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman) was shown crossing the Floor in Parliament to join Reform, to his constituents’ consternation and his own—it was a fake. Then there were the horrendous photos of naked women and girls that Elon Musk’s AI created on demand.”
The complete record
Every one of 5,139 lines we hold for Dame Chi Onwurah, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 21 of 103.
“As I said earlier, I am a chartered engineer with the Institution of Engineering and Technology. In order to find out whether my profession was affected by the Bill, I had to write to the Institution of Engineering and Technology. Does my hon. Friend think that is acceptable? Does it not make sense that professionals, wherever they are in the world at the time, should be able to easily find out whether their body is affected by this legislation?”
“T10. I hope you are watching “Geordie Hospital”, Mr Speaker—the Channel 4 series that follows the talented, highly skilled, dedicated and wonderfully witty staff of Newcastle upon Tyne Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust. As we enter our third pandemic year, after a decade of under-investment and low pay, and with staff shortages, absences and NHS waiting lists all rising, I hope that the Secretary of State recognises that what NHS staff need, as well as a great sense of humour, is a long-term workforce plan. Will he bring one forward?”
“As a Newcastle United fan, I know something of sorrow and frustration. I have huge sympathy for Derby County. This Government have repeatedly failed to act on issues of financial sustainability and effective governance in our national game, and they are now dragging their feet on their response to the fan-led review of football. Does the Minister really think that the pace of the Government’s response equals the importance of football in the lives of my constituents? Will he commit to putting fans at the top of the football pyramid?”
“Our relationship with China has rightly evolved from the “golden decade” heralded by former Conservative Chancellor George Osborne. Today Members across the House have raised issues of political interference, university research technology transfer, the diaspora presence here, human rights, and investment in this country. The Secretary of State seems to imply that the work on the National Security and Investment Act will address all these issues, but it will not. Will she commit to the audit of UK-China relations that Labour has been calling for?”
“I am glad that the Secretary of State responsible for digital has noticed that business models for content creation have changed in the last 100 years, but the need for a unifying, shared expression of British culture, identity and creativity has not. Is not the real reason for this attack on the BBC that it is a successful British public sector institution, and she just cannot stand that?”
“The Secretary of State put a lot of emphasis on testing in his statement. Inspired Outsourcing in my constituency would agree with him. It provides contact centre services, and some of its workers are key workers so cannot work from home. It has been using twice-weekly testing to keep its workers safe, but has run out of tests. It cannot get hold of any tests apart from by paying what would effectively be £2,000 a month to a private provider recommended on the Government’s website. Does the Secretary of State believe that small businesses such as Inspired Outsourcing should have access to free lateral flow tests? How can it get hold of those tests today in Newcastle, because that is what it needs to keep its workers safe and provide protection to us all?”
“These measures cannot be in place for another year—and that is if the Government act in double quick time, which they seem unable to do—which means that it will be 2023 before we have online safety regulation.”
“Their attitude to regulation and Government, as I remember from my days at Ofcom, was often that if they ignored them, regulation and Government would go away. Now, of course, the tech giants use their immense riches to wield immense power over Governments—whether in opposing workers’ rights in Silicon valley or in delaying and minimising regulation here. In that, they have been all too successful, and I have to say that it was with the support of a series of Conservative Governments who wanted to leave this to the market and believed that the state was too slow or too stupid to regulate to keep people safe, while actively cutting the part of the state designed to do so. That is why, in my view, this Online Safety Bill is a decade too late.”
“Many of my constituents, for example, feel they are being tracked, monitored, surveilled and analysed, and they feel undermined because they do not want to have to go online to do what they want to do without feeling safe and secure. Self-regulation is broken, as the report says, and it did not need to be this way. Some of us may remember concerns, back when the web started out, that if it was used for commercial purposes, people would be flamed with emails and condemned for trying to advertise or do direct marketing on the web. Somehow, however, the web was captured by those on what I can only describe as the libertarian right, who sought to maintain the lie that technology and the internet were nothing to do with Government, while building monopolistic platforms with more money and more power than most Governments.”
“We have to think how many lives have been saved by remote medicine, how many marriages have been saved by not having to argue about the best way to get directions to an event, how much joy has been shared through cat memes or whatever, and how many businesses have been started on such platforms. Technology can and should be a force for good. That is why I went into engineering—to make the world work better for everyone—and my final year project at Imperial College was on a remote alarm to support people who need care in their own homes. Engineering should be a force for good, but as the report sets out, that is no longer how it is seen.”
“I congratulate the Joint Committee on an excellent report, consisting of 191 pages of well-researched, balanced, temperate and intelligent analysis and recommendations. It is rare to find such qualities when it comes to subjects as important as online harms and, indeed, technology in the society of today. I will not go through the report’s recommendations in detail because I do not have the time; also I support and welcome just about all of them. I will mention, for example, the design for safety recommendation, which I think is excellent, but it is one among many excellent recommendations. Instead, I will focus my remarks on why this report needs to be implemented as quickly as possible and what else needs to happen. I want to start by speaking in praise of technology. I count myself as a tech evangelist.”
“In my last minute, let me just say what we need to be looking towards for the future. The Bill and the report do not reflect the development around web 3.0. We are looking to more decentralisation of the web, which is being reflected in the use of blockchain as part of the future architecture of the web. For some, blockchain is a way of avoiding government. If someone has blockchain, they do not need government. It is that kind of libertarian, right-wing approach to digital, and any Government need to be constantly looking forward to see what regulation will be required. We also need to have more emphasis on people’s rights, on access to algorithms and on their regulation. I look forward to this Bill being in place as soon as possible.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention because he is absolutely right: women in particular have been subjected to harm online, and that is one of the reasons why more women and more people from ethnic minorities need to take part in designing and developing the web and platforms in the future. I think it is really important to recognise that the last Labour Government put in place forward-looking regulation in the Communications Act 2003, which set out the landscape for regulating growing tech companies for the next decade. Given that a series of Conservative Governments have put in place no regulation, that the Bill cannot be in place for another year is a real indictment of them and shows a level of negligence that it is difficult to recover from.”
“British life scientists led the world in the battle against covid, and we need them to lead the fight against another great health challenge: dementia, which destroys so many lives and imposes huge private and public health and social care costs. This month, research published in The Lancet found that by 2050 worldwide dementia cases will treble and cases will go up by 75% in the UK. That is why Labour is promising to double research and development spend on dementia—a commitment that was also in the 2019 Conservative manifesto. Will the Minister confirm that dementia R&D spend has gone down since his Government took office?”
“Does the Minister agree that every moment that goes by that the Government of the United Kingdom are unable to say where the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom was on 20 May makes the Government more and more of a laughing stock and undermines the critical public health messages on which so many lives depend? Will he apologise to the heroes of the NHS, such as those at Newcastle hospitals trust, who spent hours and hours in full personal protective equipment, working exhausting and often traumatic shifts and yet managed to keep to lockdown rules?”
“Despite having lower average earnings, my constituents pay much more for their bus journey than Londoners. Yet the Secretary of State refuses to confirm funding for our bus service improvement plan or to confirm funding for the Metro throughout the covid crisis, which means there is less money for our buses, which he also will not support during the covid crisis. We have had our application to reopen the Leamside line refused. We have had the HS2 eastern leg abandoned, which means there is no hope of getting high-speed trains in Newcastle. We have had the manifesto promises on the Northern Rail Powerhouse refused and they will not even help to paint the Tyne bridge for its 100th birthday. Why are the Government such a Scrooge for north-east transport?”
“Newcastle has a fantastic night-time economy and the Chancellor should visit, as it is a lot closer than California. Those businesses will be seeing a real reduction in footfall and trade, as will their suppliers directly, because of the omicron variant. What support is the Minister offering to them directly as a result of the omicron variant?”
“But it is absolutely essential that we protect our regulators’ autonomy to ensure that our standards are fit for purpose and that we protect the professional standards that British citizens have come to rely on. Labour is therefore demanding that the Government amend the Bill to ensure that Parliament is given the opportunity to scrutinise secondary legislation appropriately and that the devolved Administrations are included in the regulation-making process. I look forward to the Government recognising the validity of our concerns as the Bill passes through this House.”
“Unfortunately, it remains the case that far too much of the actual content of the Bill will be passed as secondary legislation. That is unacceptable. In addition, as emphasised by the hon. Member for Midlothian (Owen Thompson), the devolved Administrations are not adequately consulted and must have a voice. The Government have a duty, indeed, to consult them and to seek the consent of devolved Administrations as the Bill passes through the House. The Government’s handling of the Bill has been chaotic. As my hon. Friend the Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) said, they introduced the Bill without knowing which professions were in its scope. We have a weak Prime Minister without the support of his own Back Benchers.”
“Friend the Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) emphasised, it is essential that we maintain our high standards and recognise that qualification recognition, although important to our public services and economy, will not solve our skills shortage. The Government must invest in skills and also give our regions the power to do so. I emphasise that because Labour wants Britain to be the best place in the world to live and to work. The Bill started in the other place and my Labour colleagues’ work on it certainly reflects that. Their scrutiny and amendments have significantly improved the Bill by securing statutory protections for regulator autonomy and statutory consultations with regulators. Regulating key professions is not a market option; it is essential to protect service users and professionals.”
“I will not detain the House for long, but I put on record that I think the brevity of this afternoon’s debate reflects concern about the rise of the omicron variant more than it does a lack of interest in this important subject. Professional qualifications are a key part of many sectors of our economy and public realm. They are significant factors in the protection of service users, from consumers to covid patients. The Bill promotes mutual recognition and professional qualifications. It increases opportunities for many, including nurses and lawyers, to work here and abroad. Many Members of the House will have constituents who could be impacted by the Bill. Newcastle has many professionals who may benefit from the recognition of their qualifications, and many businesses that might look to recruit international talent. As my hon.”
“Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I not only echo your words on that, but emphasise how important it has been that the staff have been able to provide that support, even in the midst of a pandemic? I hope that the staff of the House—together with everyone in the nation—have had the opportunity to get boosted in the midst of this pandemic and of their many duties, for which we are all so very grateful. We wish everyone a happy Christmas and a merry, boosted new year.”
“My constituents were horrified to learn just how much sewage is dumped into Newcastle’s waterways during hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours each year. Instead of the meaningless progressive reductions that the Government are currently proposing, when will they ban the dumping of sewage so that my constituents can enjoy the glorious River Tyne in all its natural beauty and safety?”
“The Secretary of State can make it to the north-east for a photo-opportunity, but he will not come here to answer our questions. If thousands of homes in the south-east were without power, he would be here. Last month the Government showed their contempt for the north-east by failing to invest in our transport infrastructure, and now we see the consequences of their failure to invest in and support our energy infrastructure. Why were there not enough generators? Why were no proper plans in place? Does the Minister accept that the energy markets as they stand are not working for the north-east, and will he do something about it?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way and for making excellent progress in explaining the legislation. First, can he clarify that the regulation is about businesses that have locations or sites in multiple primary authorities, and would therefore be subject to competing advice? Secondly, does the regulation allow the businesses to choose the primary authority they receive advice from, or is that designation—on the point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Walsall South—made by somebody else?”
“I am sure that the Government will continue to work alongside the Welsh Government and share experience about what is working well and what should be shared as good practice across our nations, and for consistency in planning where businesses may work across our four nations. Labour recognises the importance of the amendment in the draft regulations, and its potential to offer effective advice to business in any future health crisis. We therefore support this amendment being made to the Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act.”
“In the past, concerns have been raised that businesses could shop around between local authorities to choose a primary authority whose advice and interpretation they felt they would most benefit from. I assume that that will not be the case, because the primary authority will be designated by the Business Secretary, as the Minister set out. Finally, we note that the Welsh Government have chosen not to pass consent on this amendment, following a move earlier this year by the Welsh Government whereby they wrote to all local authorities to achieve a similar outcome through voluntary recognition of the primary authority scheme in relation to covid regulations.”
“I have just a couple of questions for the Minister. First, in relation to public health advice, is there expected to be any cost recovery from businesses for the cost of any advice they receive from a primary authority, and what discussions has he had with business organisations about this matter? I ask this question because the impact assessment outlines a potential net benefit to businesses of approximately £20 million over the next decade. Secondly, as we have discussed, the Minister said that the Business Secretary will designate a primary authority. Could he set out that process in a little more detail? Will the Business Secretary designate a primary authority for each business that might benefit from a primary authority?”
“Our economic recovery has undoubtedly been weakened by the Government’s mishandling of public health and economic measures, a situation that is compounded now by the lack of any clear long-term growth plan. Such a plan is urgently needed. We note that the explanatory notes state that “business stakeholders, local authorities and trade associations in England have requested that this change be made”— as the Minister has said— “to enable a more uniform approach to the interpretation and application of regulations made under Part 2A of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984.” Giving businesses the opportunity to receive consistent and straightforward advice on public health issues will not only help to protect the public but will aid businesses in coping with any health-related regulatory changes.”
“In July, the Government washed their hands of responsibility and passed the responsibility regarding face covering and NHS covid passes to businesses, with no consultation with either businesses or unions. As I am sure all Members of this House have done, I have met and spoken with businesses and representatives of businesses during the pandemic who felt incredibly let down, as the Government seemed to pass the buck when it came to the responsibility for taking action. Those businesses felt that they were not equipped to make public health decisions. They needed clarity and consistency in order to be able to plan ahead. There were also concerns about the lack of economic support for businesses and about the miscommunication in that regard. However, we cannot expect this piece of delegated legislation to do everything.”
“Basically, by doing so, it would allow primary authorities to advise businesses on public health measures. Any measures that we can take to support businesses to keep their employees and customers safe, and to recover and continue through the pandemic, are important measures to take. Labour recognises that we need to do all we can to make life easier, not harder, for businesses, and to make sure that advice can be clear and consistent. Providing clarity and consistency is the job of Government. Unfortunately, throughout the pandemic we saw businesses struggling with covid measures, particularly given the often confusing and chaotic advice handed to them by the Government.”
“Businesses can join the partnership directly, or they can belong to a trade association and benefit from a co-ordinated partnership. They are also able to engage in multiple partnerships, receiving advice on different regulatory areas. The 2008 Act allows businesses access to authoritative advice on areas of regulation, while allowing regulators to support local economic growth through stronger business relationships and more effective regulatory compliance. Businesses are only asked to cover the recovery costs of any advice they receive from a primary authority, allowing the Act in normal times to provide a cost-effective way of encouraging regulatory compliance. The amendment to schedule 3 seeks to add part 2A of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 to the Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008.”
“In the event of a future pandemic, that would allow businesses to receive consistent and reliable advice on complying with the regulations from their local authorities. The Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act was introduced in 2008 under Labour. It established the primary authority scheme, which allowed local authorities and fire and rescue authorities to become primary authorities. Through the schemes, businesses could partner with primary authorities and receive advice on meeting environmental, health, trading standards or fire safety regulations through a single point of contact, rather than having to deal with different points of contact in different local authorities and each of the local authorities in which they might operate. The partnerships are available to any type of business, regardless of size or experience.”
“A primary authority can support a business in many ways, such as by issuing primary authority advice that must be followed by other local authorities where the business operates, which are therefore deemed the enforcing authorities; by co-ordinating enforcement action proposed against the business and assessing whether it is consistent with a previous primary authority advice issue to the business; or by developing an inspection plan, which sets out national priorities for routine inspection of a business and provides information about compliance policies that are in place. In other words, it provides a formal way for a business to receive local advice on particular areas. The legislation extends the advice that can be provided to include health protection regulations of the type brought in during the covid lockdown.”
“It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairship on this important piece of legislation, Dame Angela. As the Minister has set out, the legislation is being considered with a future pandemic in mind. It seeks to amend schedule 3 of the Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008, or RESA, to bring part 2A of Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 within the scope of the primary authority scheme. As the Minister set out, the scheme is a framework for a business, particularly one with multiple locations, to form a partnership with a specific local authority, which is therefore the primary authority, to receive support on particular pieces of legislation.”
“I was told that there would be a response to the report over the summer, but given that even the most optimistic among us must now agree that the summer is over, could we have a debate in Government time on the Sewell report?”
“Thank you so very much, Mr Speaker. I appreciate the comparison. The report of the Prime Minister’s Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities, otherwise known as the Sewell report, was published in March to almost universal condemnation because of its shoddy research and contentious conclusions. As well as denying the existence of structural racism, it proposed that the answer to bias in algorithms should be to define fairness mathematically. Having some familiarity with statistical and mathematical methods, I can say that I find that absolutely laughable, but despite having asked numerous questions, I have yet to find out the Government’s view.”
“The Northumberland Royal Fusiliers was first given the freedom of Newcastle in 1948, and the freedom parade of the 5th Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers through the streets of Newcastle with bayonets fixed is a symbol of the ongoing links between the fusiliers and Newcastle. Will the Secretary of State set out how this reorganisation will maintain and enhance those strong and prosperous links, which are so important both for public confidence and for recruitment?”
“It is truly heartbreaking to think of the lives, the hopes and the talents extinguished by the sea in that journey to our shores—a journey that the Home Secretary has characterised as unnecessary. Let me gently say to her that the men, women and children who got into that boat clearly did not think it was unnecessary, and we see more boats arriving today. Will she acknowledge that her policies are not working, that vulnerable people are paying the price, and that what we need are the safe, secure and fair routes into this country that she has failed to put in place?”
“Many people rely on them to get to work or school, but the fares that they have to pay are prohibitive. The extortionate bus prices are part of the cost of living crisis facing my constituents and many others across the north-east. Can the Minister tell us when the Government will level down fares in the north-east? My constituents are not even guaranteed a good service. As we have heard, our bus services are facing rising fuel and maintenance costs and labour shortages, leaving passengers to face enormous disruption. Pay disputes are potentially leading to industrial action across the region and, as we have heard, Transport North East estimates that there will be a 20% reduction in bus mileage from next April.”
“That has a real impact on the friction of taking a bus journey; it reduces the useability, functionality and accessibility of buses for my constituents. As well as comparing with London, we also need to compare with the unfortunately often more convenient and cheaper alternative that my constituents have: the car. As we recently saw at COP26, we want to move away from car journeys towards more journeys on public transport. However, it is cheaper for a family of four to take a car into the centre of Newcastle to go and see the latest Peppa Pig film—I am sure the Prime Minister will approve of that, given that most of my constituents cannot afford the 700-mile round trip to Peppa Pig World—than it is for them to get a bus there and back. In Newcastle, our buses are critical all the same.”
“I have said it before and I will say it again, until it stops being true: for £1.55 in London, I can get up to two buses to carry me anywhere across the capital for over 30 miles; but in Newcastle, £1.55 will not even get me three stops up the West Road. If I want to go to beautiful Ashington, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery), which is only 18 miles away, a single ticket will cost me £6. More than that, while here in London we can see when buses are coming, in Newcastle, at Eldon Square bus station, there is a sign that says, “Working with bus operators to bring you real-time travel information.” That sign has been there for years—they have been working together for years—and we still do not know when buses are leaving from where.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. I start by wholeheartedly congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist) on securing this debate. From the many colleagues who are in the Chamber, we can see how much support there is for a debate on this very important subject. Nevertheless, we should not be having this debate. I and many colleagues from the north-east have spoken many times about the lack of effective and convenient bus services in our region, and I have often spoken about the huge disparity between the cost of bus tickets in Newcastle and the cost of bus tickets in London.”
“We need control over our buses, which is the only way that my constituents and the people of the north-east will get a fair transport deal. As we heard earlier, the North East Joint Transport Committee recently published its bus service improvement plan, setting out a major programme of investment worth £804 million over three years. I want the Minister to tell us that she will be supporting that plan and the buses that my constituents deserve.”
“Speaking of the most recent Budget, Lucy Winskell, the chair of the North East LEP, said that “government has announced significant transport investment across the rest of the North but not in the North East.” Whereas other parts of the country received hundreds of millions of pounds in funding, with some even receiving over £1 billion, the north-east lost out yet again. Before deregulation in the ’80s, we had a transport network. Some of us are old enough to remember that people could travel across the region, from bus to Metro, on one transfer ticket. That system worked brilliantly, partially because we had control over our buses. When Margaret Thatcher privatised buses, she knew that an entirely private bus service would not be good enough for London. Why was that thought to be good enough for the north-east?”
“I thank my hon. Friend and constituency neighbour for that intervention; she is absolutely right. As well as the challenge of climate change, the quality of air in Newcastle is of great concern to my constituents and hers. It is not rocket science—the technology is there to have cleaner, greener buses. The Secretary of State for Transport keeps on saying that there are thousands of such buses about to come on to our streets, but we have yet to see them in Newcastle. That is part of the investment that we need to see. The promises of investment simply do not materialise for the north-east.”
“I, too, have seen the buses when they were parked in Westminster for a show and tell by the manufacturers. What I have not seen is the buses on the streets of Newcastle.”
“It is quite simple, is it not? The Government are slashing Transport for the North because they are slashing transport for the north, abandoning the much-promised ambitions for an integrated transport infrastructure that our economy needs. Will the Minister tell me who will set out the plans for our northern transport future, or do we not have one?”
“The Home Secretary knows that the UK receives fewer asylum seekers—these are not people applying via the resettlement scheme—per head of population than the European average, yet after 11 years in power, she cannot process their applications in a timely manner, subjecting them to further physical and mental distress, or even control our borders, meaning that thousands are making that perilous crossing. Will she stop blaming the French, the European Union, the Royal National Lifeboat Institution, the weather, the migrants themselves, and take some responsibility? Fix the broken system, because the Nationality and Borders Bill certainly will not do that.”
“The Bill is not perfect, and there are questions that I shall want to pursue if it makes further progress, but I think it is up to the Minister and the Government to set out what they are doing to address the critical issue raised by the hon. Member for Wyre Forest—an issue that is spoiling the lives of so many of my constituents and, I am sure, constituents of Members in all parts of the House. What are the Government going to do to address this issue if they are not going to support the hon. Member’s Bill?”