Stephen Farry
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Speaking for a party that has a longer pedigree in advocating a public inquiry than both the DUP and Sinn Féin, I nonetheless welcome this announcement, despite the torturous path that we have had and, indeed, the missed opportunities.”
“The first was a reform of the petition of concern to take it back to the original intent when it was designed in 1998. It was clear at that stage that Arlene Foster banged the table and said, "No, never. We are not doing that. That is a way whereby we are going to have to fold on equal marriage: it's not happening".”
“<BR /> <BR />The main points that I make concern the substance of the order. There are probably three aspects that the Minister needs to address properly before the Assembly, and they really relate to what other options he has.”
“That raises the question of why they want to go as far as 2022, especially when I am not sure — I would welcome any clarification to the contrary on it — that there has been formal Executive approval of this.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are three major substantive issues that I do not believe have been properly aired on this: VAT; European Commission infraction proceedings; and, most important, the opportunity foregone to revisit the classification of Northern Ireland Water and the ability, through a separate water charge, to allow it to borrow commerc…”
“While my party was supportive of the Good Friday Agreement back in 1998, at that time, we expressed some reservations around the very detailed nature of the proposals and how those could, in due course, destabilise Northern Ireland and prevent us from realising our full potential. We have been very much vindicated in that analysis.”
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“Overall, we have supported the creation of several thousand jobs across Northern Ireland through Assured Skills over the past number of years, and the Assured Skills programme will come into its own in the context of the lower rate of corporation tax.”
“First, with Assured Skills generally, my Department, as Members know, works in conjunction with Invest Northern Ireland on its programmes. Obviously, skills are a key component in how we attract and sustain investment in Northern Ireland, so it is important that we have that skills narrative and, more importantly, that we have the tools to respond effectively and provide the particular skills that investing companies require. We can put in place a number of particular programmes for companies and for sectors. In that regard, we have rolled out a number of academies over the past number of years. Having started by focusing on ICT, the academies are spreading to different ranges of activity. Indeed, the area of financial services is one that we are doing some work on currently.”
“<BR /> <BR />I stress to the Member the importance of ensuring that we have sufficient investment in skills to meet the demands. I want to put on record my appreciation to the Finance Minister for providing an additional resource for skills for the future Department for the Economy. That will make some difference. However, I also want to stress that there is a very long way to go in ensuring that we have a sufficiently strong skills base and skills pipeline to ensure that we meet the full demands of the economy, particularly in the context of a lower level of corporation tax.”
“There are probably fairly few areas in which there is an over-provision at present. It might be the case with particular university subjects — there are some broader areas. I would say with a degree of hesitation — I am not particularly looking to open up another debate — that teaching is one area in which there is an oversupply at present. There are clear pressure points in science and technology and in nursing. It is interesting to note that one of the top five areas is manufacturing, despite a lot of bad news over the past number of months about redundancies. That reinforces the point that Northern Ireland still has a very strong future in manufacturing. Indeed, there are future pressure points. We estimate growth in manufacturing over the coming years.”
“The results indicate a strong need for people with intermediate and graduate-level skills, particularly in science, technology, engineering and maths-related subjects, reflecting the anticipated growth in ICT, professional services and advanced manufacturing. <BR /> <BR />The barometer will be updated annually to ensure that forecasts are based on the latest data. However, there is the ability to update it more frequently to take account of any unforeseen circumstances.”
“Importantly, the barometer provides the Department with a level of detail and sophistication that no other macroeconomic model has been able to provide. A key feature is its flexibility as a policymaking tool that can be adjusted to take account of changes in order to understand the skills implications of different policy measures. <BR /> <BR />The results indicate that, under the higher economic growth that accompanies a lower rate of corporation tax, there will be a significant undersupply of skills in the economy as a whole. Extra investment in skills is required to meet the shortfall, and the barometer estimates the size of this requirement.”
“The skills barometer was launched on 12 November 2015 at, strangely enough, Belfast Met and is the result of work that the Ulster University economic policy centre completed on behalf of my Department. Skills mismatches are often cited as a key barrier to economic growth. I was, therefore, keen to ensure that the Department and the wider Executive had the most robust and up-to-date information on skills requirements, thereby enabling policymakers and educationalists to make informed choices about the allocation of funds and initiatives. <BR /> <BR />The skills barometer is innovative, groundbreaking and something that we should be very proud of. It provides a detailed understanding of the skills requirements of our economy up to 2025, with forecasts of supply and demand.”
“When we look at how we are advancing the economy today, many of us, including the Member, make allusions to the Belfast of the turn of the last century and how it was a world economic powerhouse. In many sectors, it was world-leading. It was not just close to the top but at the very top. In many ways, that inspires us to achieve the vision that we have for the future of Northern Ireland to be one of the best regions in the world and one of the top performers in sectors in which we have comparative strengths.”
“I thank the Member for his comments and assure him that my current post is big enough. I am not too sure what he is alluding to. <BR /> <BR />In so far as the Member was asking a question, I agree with his comments about the important partnerships that have been built between Belfast Met and the city council. It is important that we celebrate the contribution of Belfast Met. Of course, the current college is not 110 years old; it is of a much more recent vintage. Many of its predecessors go back to the turn of the last century, so it has a long and illustrious history of supporting vocational and technical professional education in the city of Belfast.”
“The college is one of the lead partners, alongside the council, in the Springvale multi-agency group, has an increased involvement in the design and delivery of learning solutions in, for example, the Girdwood community hub and works on the Urban Villages programme to better understand and target specific pockets of educational disadvantage.”
“Increasingly, colleges will work collaboratively and in partnership with other organisations in the public, private, and voluntary and community sectors to deliver their services to learners, employers and communities to maximum effect. <BR /> <BR />Working alongside Belfast City Council, the college has delivered the Achieve programme, encouraging young people to participate in STEM-focused FE programmes and SME support programmes, including Generate, which is focused on supply chain opportunities in the renewables sector, and Super Connected, which provides support to access high-grade broadband connectivity.”
“Belfast Met's Leading the City to Work initiative is the college's commitment to working in partnership with stakeholders to transform lives and to contribute to the economic and social success of Belfast and Northern Ireland. The initiative reflects the further education sector's challenging dual role, which was set out recently in the further education strategy, Further Education Means Success, in which colleges are pivotal to the development of a strong, vibrant economy through the provision of professional and technical skills, as well as having the responsibility of helping fight poverty and supporting social inclusion.”
“Therefore, it is important that we now move ahead with a proper budget for apprenticeships baselined for the future Department, and we are doing that. Obviously, the £5 million will be an aspect of ensuring that we can achieve that.”
“It is not just a case of how much of that £5 million will be allocated to apprenticeships; that is part of a much bigger pot. The Member will be aware that, this morning, the Finance Minister indicated that another £20 million would be available for skills in the future Department for the Economy through the Budget exchange scheme. All of that goes into a pot to support skills, and it includes higher education, universities, mainstream further education and apprenticeships. One thing that I am seeking to do, in working out with Jonathan Bell the budget for the new Department for the Economy is to ensure that we have a dedicated mainstream budget for the new higher-level apprenticeships. Previously, that has been funded through the change fund, which was not baselined.”
“Unless we fully utilise the talent base in Northern Ireland in terms of the pipeline of skills going into those areas, we will not live up to our full potential. There is a real importance in ensuring that we have the proper balance. It is important that we encourage all people to influence others to think, particularly at an early age, about a range of careers and that we try to tackle some of the stereotypes that may have channelled people in different directions.”
“I thank the Member for the question. That will be the subject of some questions further on. In my answer, I alluded to work that we are undertaking in promotional activity through a number of projects. We work closely with the Equality Commission in that regard. It remains a structural difficulty in our economy. While we have strong participation rates in further education and higher education across both genders, with women more represented than men, we still see significant segmentation in the choices that people make. Some may argue that that does not really matter and that people have different preferences, but it matters when we look to the areas of the economy that are set to grow the most over the coming years.”
“The difficulty with raising the MaSN cap is that we do not have the resource in that regard. Obviously, that is something that we would like to see, and it should be considered in future Budgets of the Executive. In our current provision, we have had a rebalancing of the offer over the past number of years in the direction of STEM, particularly in what we term "narrow STEM", which are the maths, physics and computer science subjects. As we have wrestled with some budget cuts over the past number of years, we have worked with the colleges and universities to protect those narrow STEM subjects from the cuts that have happened elsewhere.”
“I thank the Member for his comments and his question. Given his role as Chair of the Education Committee, he will be aware that careers spans my Department and the Department of Education. My Committee conducted an inquiry during this Assembly term. More recently, we have had our own review of the careers strategy. We have an implementation plan across the two Departments. Shortly, we hope to publish the formal strategy for careers over the next five years. That is being finalised across the two Departments. I am sure that, as my Committee holds me to account in that respect, the Member will do likewise with his Minister.”
“Looking ahead, there will continue to be enhanced funding for the majority of STEM subjects delivered at our colleges and universities, and I will continue to support them in rebalancing their subject provision towards economically relevant subjects. I will also continue with the implementation of our apprenticeship strategy through the funding of additional higher-level apprenticeship pilots in areas of economic relevance.”
“My Department has also supported a report by the STEM business group called 'Addressing Gender Balance — Reaping the Gender Dividend in Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM)', which contains a number of good-practice guidelines aimed at addressing the gender gap in STEM subjects and careers. Over this Assembly term, I have supported over 1,400 additional STEM undergraduate places at our colleges and universities. <BR /> <BR />As part of the Budget preparation process for 2016-17, I submitted bids for the resources required to meet our skill shortages under a reduced rate of corporation tax.”
“STEM subjects are and will continue to be essential to our economy. That has recently been verified by the skills barometer, which identifies a strong demand for mid- and higher-level skills in STEM subjects. My Department is funding a number of approaches to raise the profile of and create opportunities for STEM study and careers; for example, through STEM supplements in local newspapers and career booklets across a range of STEM sectors. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased to say that, after the success of its inaugural year in 2015, I have agreed to extend my Department's sponsorship of the Northern Ireland Science Festival over the next four years.”
“We have discussed those centrally as an Assembly in the past, and those comments stand. It is important that we understand that there are partnerships and that we see community-based delivery and the further and higher education system, as well as the school system, as part of an overall system and not as stark alternatives. It is important that we focus on whatever works best in ensuring that we deliver the best for individual learners. That clearly includes delivery through community and voluntary organisations.”
“One of those target groups will be those with family and caring responsibilities, while the other will be those with work-limiting disabilities. The majority of those in the first category — those with caring responsibilities — will be women, and I appreciate that Members mentioned their concerns about that section of the community and its ability to re-engage. That strategy will be seeking bids from community-based organisations for new types of intervention that may be successful. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I again thank Members for their comments. It is important that we consider community education in the round and that we have a range of existing provisions. There are obviously some tensions, such as the way that the European social fund, for example, is being rolled out.”
“We also need to be conscious of our future provision for those who are not in education, employment or training to see how we can further develop the pathways strategy. <BR /> <BR />One of my current disappointments as Minister is that we have not been in a position to date to implement the economic inactivity strategy. That was agreed by the Executive in April 2015. With the reorganisation of Departments, that will transfer to the new Department for Communities. It is my hope and ambition that a future Executive will be able to resource that strategy. Within that, there is scope to have competitive pilots at a local community base. That will seek to target particular groups that experience economic inactivity.”
“So there is good further education provision in West Belfast. In particular, given that E3 is a modern investment, it should be viewed as a huge asset. At one level, we have our Assured Skills programme, where students are trained to take up opportunities on a number of the inward investment projects. That training occurs in West Belfast itself. However, E3 is also a very powerful asset to the community as a provider of FE in the constituency. <BR /> <BR />It is also worth referencing other aspects of our provision. In Training for Success, we have a number of organisations in West Belfast that are in receipt of contracts. Indeed, Members will be aware of many of those organisations. We also have a number of United Youth projects working in West Belfast, including Youth Initiatives and Include Youth.”
“Members will be aware that we launched a fresh strategy for further education today and that we talked within that about the importance of the dual role of the FE sector in delivering for the economy of Northern Ireland, as well as the very important social function it plays through social inclusion and ensuring that people are given opportunities. The FE sector appreciates the importance of working on a community basis. <BR /> <BR />Mainstream FE is not alien to or different from delivery and responding to communities. That is part and parcel of the colleges' DNA as organisations in their own right. Obviously, when we are talking about further education and West Belfast, in addition to the community provision, we are talking about the two campuses that fall within the constituency. We have Millfield and the E3 campus at Springvale.”
“Just to put that in context, we have something like 67 different projects under way under the current European social fund. We estimate that, of those, 21 are operating in West Belfast. The entirety of community education is not dependent solely on the European social fund; there is other provision. Indeed, the further education colleges do outreach work and will work with many organisations, including many of those that Members mentioned. The notion that there is somehow a tension between community-based delivery and further education through some sort of polarised choice is a false one.”
“I believe that we have a very reasonable spread in the types of organisation that we are funding, with the qualification that certain organisations will be disappointed about the outcome.”
“I thank the Member for his comments. On the premise of the importance and relevance of community-based education, I fully accept the points that he makes. <BR /> <BR />What has happened in relation to the European social fund is that, while we have a bigger overall pot, including a bigger pot of match funding, given that it is a competitive process in terms of allocations, there will be situations where certain organisations are successful and others are unsuccessful in their bids. However, I have to say that I do not recognise the characterisation that it is organisations with better infrastructure and are better placed to make bids who have been more successful in that regard.”
“The fund is designed to allow us to do levels of activity and support levels of activity that would not otherwise be possible through existing departmental budgets. Contrary to the public impression in the context of wider pressures on the community and voluntary sector, I want to place it on record that we have not, in fact, cut the European social fund. As we stand, in the 2014-2020 programme, we have a bigger overall package of funding available. Within that, we also have a greater allocation of match funding.”
“It has not been my agenda to shift resources from the community and voluntary sector into the mainstream sector, but rather one of allowing different aspects of that overall system to have a degree of greater specialism. In turn, that creates certain tensions, and those are being articulated today and on other occasions. <BR /> <BR />We have the resource of the European social fund available to us. I always like to start a discussion on the fund by pointing out the opportunity that comes to us in Northern Ireland from our membership of the European Union. The European social fund is one of many examples of the benefits that Northern Ireland accrues from the UK's ongoing membership of the European Union, particularly at this time, when that membership is under such questioning and uncertainty.”
“A number of Members referred to childcare and other caring responsibilities that may be obstacles. It is worth pointing out that the further education and higher education systems offer assistance for students who have particular issues, including around hardship and other challenges. <BR /> <BR />Members also referred to the context in which we are discussing this, which is around budget cuts. The experience of my Department over the past number of years has been extremely challenging. We are seeking to see how we can maximise the effectiveness of the scarce resources available to us to ensure that we have the biggest impact with what is available to us in achieving outcomes.”
“<BR /> <BR />In saying that, it is important to recognise that the community-based provision has to be viewed as part of an overall system that includes the formal statutory school system alongside mainstream further education and higher education. When we look at the needs of learners, we must also recognise that it is often in a community setting that they will be best served and where they will get important footholds on the ladder of progression. In saying that, we have to recognise the importance of encouraging progression along the skills ladder into other types of provision and recognise that mobility itself can be important when it comes to employment. Many of the barriers that people experience in relation to employment will often be replicated in barriers that people perceive in relation to education.”
“We appreciate the pressure points that other aspects of our public services are experiencing. Investment in education has many benefits across society as a whole, and it is important that we empower every individual to reach their full potential. In doing that, we have to ensure that we provide the range of provision that will identify and respond to the very particular requirements of different cohorts of learners. I therefore recognise the importance of community-based education and how it can address the needs of learners who have barriers to engaging in education and training and recognise that the provision offered by the community and voluntary sector is often better placed to deliver outcomes than, in some cases, the formal statutory provision offered by the state.”
“First of all, I thank the mover of the debate and recognise all those who have contributed to it. I am responding as the Minister for Employment and Learning, but the issue, as many Members who spoke have recognised, cuts across the roles of a number of Departments. I also recognise the importance of education in its own right for a number of reasons. There is the importance of empowering individuals in creating that sense of opportunity, their own stake in society and their own sense of worth and respect, but there are also the wider benefits that accrue to society and the economy. <BR /> <BR />I also recognise the other positive social benefits that we can achieve through encouraging people to reach their potential in education, including, for example, a reduced dependency on the health service.”
“Apologies for that slight detour into points of detail, and I look forward to the further stages of the Bill.”
“We are considering taking a slight step back from this and, rather than prescribing that it would be a duty or power in relation to the Labour Relations Agency, we are thinking that we could have an enabling power and that, after proper consideration, we could determine the best route through which it could be taken forward. That would allow the principle of neutral assessment to be agreed as part of the legislation, with the particular route by which it will be delivered — either through the LRA or tribunals — to be determined down the line, if at all. That would be put in place through affirmative regulation. In a similar light, the Committee is also keen that we have a review of the early conciliation power that is set out in the Bill. Most people would see that as a perfectly logical step.”
“There may well be an opportunity for the Assembly in the very near future in that regard. It is an important issue, and I do not think it should sit on the shelf for whatever reason. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I thank all the Members who contributed to the debate. We will return for Consideration Stage, Further Consideration Stage and Final Stage, and I am very willing to engage further with the Chair and members of the Committee over the coming days to address some of the issues. <BR /> <BR />I had forgotten to but I wanted to mention amendments in the area of neutral assessment. Some Members raised potential concerns about what we are proposing, and those concerns have also been reflected by stakeholders.”
“In that context, the options open to us are limited. If the Member is keen that we have that debate, there is scope for greater discussion among members of the Committee or, indeed, on the Floor of the Assembly around the policy. One of the options is that, at the very beginning of the new term, the Assembly moves to legislate, on a discrete basis, around zero-hours or minimum-hours contracts. In most Assembly terms, there can be a tendency for legislation to wait until the very end, and we are probably a particularly bad example of that. I do not mean my Department individually but rather us as a whole, and there are reasons for that. It is important that legislation happens on a more uniform basis across the lifetime of an Assembly, and I am sure that the Speaker will be the first person to advocate that as the best practice.”
“It is important that, when we approach this, we put measures in place and achieve what we are trying to achieve in the policy intent. That is why it is important that full consideration is given to what we want to put in place.”
“The number of people on exclusive zero-hours contracts is fairly minimal, so we can really make a difference by putting a code of practice on a statutory basis and by allowing people the potential to request a regular contract after they have worked regular hours over a specified period. Those thresholds would need to be given proper scrutiny in order to ensure that there are no adverse consequences arising from that and that there would be no unintended consequences. For example, if you say that someone has a right to request a regular contract after having worked for 26 weeks on a regular, fixed shift pattern, you could see an unscrupulous employer changing that person's working hours in week 25 to avoid the measure coming into play after week 26 and almost resetting the clock and putting the person back to square one.”
“That is the work that Committees do, and they are very much part of the Assembly process, so it is important that we have proper deliberation of these issues. <BR /> <BR />That said — we have already done this with the Committee, and I am more than happy to return to it — it is useful to debate at policy level and to set out the policy options on zero-hours contracts. If the Member or anyone else wishes to refer to the public consultation, they will see that some of the options that are available to us are very clear. I referenced those in my closing remarks, and they include areas such as a ban on exclusivity.”
“Again, I thank the Member for those comments. To clarify how the process works: anything that involves a policy commitment that relates to legislation has to be agreed by the Executive. That is reflected in the ministerial code, which binds all Ministers. Without Executive approval, it is difficult for a Department to move ahead and to draft amendments. The timescale that is available to us does not provide us with that opportunity. Even if the policy were agreed and we were able to move very quickly to draft amendments, as the Chair of the Committee indicated, there still needs to be scope for the proper scrutiny of such measures to ensure that they will do what they are designed to do, no unforeseen consequences arise from them, and there is consensus or buy-in from stakeholders.”
“However, it is important that we seek to return to the issue at the earliest opportunity.”
“I thank the Chair for those comments. That is a perfectly understandable and responsible approach for the Committee to take. It is in that context that I stressed that it is important that measures on zero-hours contracts are, like any aspect of Assembly legislation, given proper scrutiny. We are putting in place measures that will form part of the law of the land. Given the circumstances that we find ourselves in, there are now major logistical issues for us in addressing zero-hours contracts, and I certainly recognise the Committee's work in getting the Bill to a stage that means that we are in a position to pass legislation before the end of the mandate. It is important that we follow through with that. Sadly, the door is closing on action that can be taken on zero-hours contracts in this Assembly mandate.”
“The Assembly has a duty to act on the issue. It is certainly my strong view that we should act in a proportionate way to address what has become a feature of our economy. That works for some, but, for others, it is potentially a recipe for exploitation.”
“It is an area where, with a bit more debate, a consensus on a package of proportionate measures could be put in place. That would include measures such as a ban on exclusivity clauses, the creation of a code of practice and the terms and situation in which someone would have the right to potentially request a regular contract, for example, if a consistent pattern of work had built up over a prescribed period. Such thresholds need to be properly ironed out through proper discussion and scrutiny.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is also important to bear in mind that proper scrutiny needs to be given to any measures that we will take forward in relation to zero-hours contracts. An important consideration that Members need to bear in mind is that a definition of zero-hours contracts has to be put in place before other measures can be built around what will be permissible or not permissible in that regard. That is a particularly thorny issue, and it is important that it is got right in any legislation. <BR /> <BR />My desire remains that this is an area where we need to see action being taken by the Assembly. Whether it will be possible now is difficult, and, unfortunately, we are running out of time. However, I hope that it is an issue that the Assembly will be in a position to address at some stage in the very near future.”
“It is disappointing that we have not yet had agreement in the Executive on the policy on zero-hours contracts. I cannot understand why that has been the case. It is for those who have not seen fit yet to clear the paper to explain why that has been the case. <BR /> <BR />The difficulty now is that we are very much up against time. I have made references to the process and how it is not ideal that we are only now considering the Second Stage of a Bill in January 2016. There is not yet any policy agreement to take forward proposals. The Bill is up against a very tight deadline and a fixed point, which is the end of this mandate. It is important that we get what is very progressive and coherent legislation through.”
“<BR /> <BR />As Members will know, my Department initiated a consultation on zero-hours contracts in June 2014 to which we received 35 individual and 235 standardised responses. On the basis of the consultation, I presented a series of policy recommendations to the Executive in February 2015. An outright ban, in my opinion, was not appropriate. It would have been a disproportionate response, and we would have seen people losing the opportunities created by zero-hours contracts, where that applies in certain cases, or others forced out of employment. By contrast, our proposals would have put in place a range of regulation of zero-hours contracts and other forms of minimum-hours contracts. Our proposals, in fact, were the most radical in these islands and would have taken us beyond the situation in Great Britain.”