Stephen Farry
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Speaking for a party that has a longer pedigree in advocating a public inquiry than both the DUP and Sinn Féin, I nonetheless welcome this announcement, despite the torturous path that we have had and, indeed, the missed opportunities.”
“The first was a reform of the petition of concern to take it back to the original intent when it was designed in 1998. It was clear at that stage that Arlene Foster banged the table and said, "No, never. We are not doing that. That is a way whereby we are going to have to fold on equal marriage: it's not happening".”
“<BR /> <BR />The main points that I make concern the substance of the order. There are probably three aspects that the Minister needs to address properly before the Assembly, and they really relate to what other options he has.”
“That raises the question of why they want to go as far as 2022, especially when I am not sure — I would welcome any clarification to the contrary on it — that there has been formal Executive approval of this.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are three major substantive issues that I do not believe have been properly aired on this: VAT; European Commission infraction proceedings; and, most important, the opportunity foregone to revisit the classification of Northern Ireland Water and the ability, through a separate water charge, to allow it to borrow commerc…”
“While my party was supportive of the Good Friday Agreement back in 1998, at that time, we expressed some reservations around the very detailed nature of the proposals and how those could, in due course, destabilise Northern Ireland and prevent us from realising our full potential. We have been very much vindicated in that analysis.”
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“Whatever choice is made, we would be in the situation where we are a devolved Assembly that is dependent on a transfer payment from a national Government — one in London or one in Dublin. That is the fundamental reality and will be the reality for the best part of 10 or 20 years in the best-case scenario while we actually balance our Budgets and create a situation where we have a self-sustaining economy in terms of the level of tax receipts that we have compared with the level of public spending that is required. <BR /> <BR />In essence, when we hear, from Sinn Féin in particular, comments that the UK Government have no legitimacy in doing what they are doing, they are wrong; not just wrong in a general sense, but actually undermining the principle of consent, which is an integral part of the Good Friday Agreement.”
“Frankly, it was there on an even bigger scale in relative proportional terms than has been the case facing the UK Government. <BR /> <BR />We do not have the luxury of opting out of these big decisions that are taken by national Governments because we are a regional Assembly. If people want to make the case for Northern Ireland going it alone, they can, but bear in mind that the Good Friday Agreement does not make provision for an independent Northern Ireland. The choices are binary: either Northern Ireland is part of the UK or it is part of a united Ireland, albeit with the provision of some degree of autonomy within the context of a united Ireland. Those are the choices that face us.”
“Indeed; that is very much the case. I want to make the point as well that, even in some sort of different scenario where there were actually a united Ireland and the northern part of the island had some degree of devolution, it would still be in the context of having to balance the books and we would be subject to transfer payments coming from a national Government. We know that, in the context of what has been happening in Ireland over the past number of years, they have had their own issues with regard to how they would address balancing the Budget. Indeed, parties may well have their own views as to the rights and wrongs of the precise approach that was taken in that regard, but nonetheless that selfsame challenge was there.”
“The principle of consent is that we recognise the right of the people of Northern Ireland to determine their own future and that our position remains in the UK until or unless the people of Northern Ireland decide otherwise. There is no fine print that says, "Subject to there being a Government in the UK that is not dominated by the Conservative Party." It is in all circumstances. The UK population as a whole has elected a Conservative Government, albeit on a flawed electoral system. That is the legitimate outcome of the rules as they stand. We in this House may not like that particular outcome — I certainly do not like it — but, nonetheless, that is the outcome of the election.”
“It should also be noted that our colleagues in Scotland and Wales have balanced Budgets for this current financial year. When we hear this eulogy for the Scottish National Party, the "in" party of the moment, having overtaken Syriza in Greece — we all know how well it is performing at present — we need to put in context that even the SNP has a balanced Budget, notwithstanding its attempts to stand up to the Tories. <BR /> <BR />The second point that we need to make about the wider context, which is probably even more challenging for both the SDLP and Sinn Féin, and potentially the Green Party, is about the implications of what we are currently doing to the Good Friday Agreement settlement. First, we seem to be turning the principle of consent on its head.”
“<BR /> <BR />In essence, if we are to make common cause and say that there are differences in the pattern of economic activity, the nature of population and the dependency on the public sector in different parts of these islands, then we should make common cause, but do it from a position of maturity and responsibility. Frankly, if we go into those discussions without having a balanced Budget in place for this year, our credibility will be so much more diminished. I urge Sinn Féin in particular, which is making that argument, to explain to us why we cannot enter that process while at the same time balancing the books in Northern Ireland, and why we have to insist on wrecking our society in Northern Ireland over the coming months in order to make some sort of political point, which, in truth, will actually be a fairly futile gesture.”
“However, I diverge from that point on a very important aspect. Our credibility would be so much more enhanced if we actually manage to balance our books, because all of those issues — notwithstanding the issue of the £38 million passed on in-year — are down the line for future years. We have an urgent requirement in-year to ensure that we have a balanced Budget and, with respect to the £38 million itself, which is an in-year pressure that has arisen from underspends being collected around Whitehall Departments, we have the option of deferring that until next year. Whether that is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do is an entirely separate issue, but we still have the right as a devolved region to have that particular pressure deferred and accounted for at a different point.”
“That is a legitimate point to make. <BR /> <BR />There is also a wider point to make about the best way of trying to address a deficit. Is it through making targeted investments in economic drivers and overcoming those deficits through increased growth, or is it through balancing the books? That has been the subject of an ongoing debate and, indeed, there has been a lot of comment from international organisations over the approach that has been adopted by the UK Government, some of it positive and some of it negative. <BR /> <BR />The point I will make is that it is right for us — and this is where I concede that other parties have made a valid point — to make common cause with others in these islands to make representations around what is happening in the future of welfare and the future of public spending.”
“<BR /> <BR />Let me just turn to those ever so briefly. It is right for us to be critical of the approach that the UK Government, particularly the new UK Government, are taking towards welfare reform and public spending. Indeed, a number of political parties were very clear in opposing what was happening on welfare reform in the appropriate place, which is the Westminster Parliament. Indeed, all political parties, with different degrees of emphasis and in their own different ways, have expressed concerns at the rate at which the UK Government are trying to address the UK deficit. I think most of us take the view that there are differences on a regional basis within the UK and that what may well be in the interests of the south-east of England, and London, indeed, is not in the interests of other parts of the UK.”
“What we are doing, have done over the past year and will potentially have to do this year — indeed, there may well be more to come — is of a much greater magnitude and over a shorter period of time than has been the case in Whitehall. That brings its own particular challenges to us. <BR /> <BR />There are also a number of what are, in essence, to a certain extent, red herrings in the process, and a lot of talk about what is happening in Westminster about wider debates and other things that are coming down the line. That is not to diminish the importance of all of those, but the nature, balance and essential outcome of those do not take away from our central requirement and responsibility as an Executive and an Assembly to have a balanced Budget in place for this year, which we do not currently have.”
“The longer we leave the resolution of those issues, the more difficult it is going to be to find a solution and to manage that solution, bearing in mind that a lot of the pressures that are built up in the system are in-year pressures and are not pressures that we have the luxury of planning around over a longer period of time. <BR /> <BR />When I intervened on Mr Ross earlier, I made the point that, yes, it is normal for Governments to try to find innovative solutions to problems that are faced, to do things more efficiently and to progress a programme of public-sector reform, but it is interesting to note that, as deep and challenging as the cuts have been in Whitehall over the past number of years, those have been phased over a period of four or five years.”
“For the record, Mr Speaker, I am speaking from the Back Benches as an ordinary Member, although it is a pleasure to follow Mr Buchanan, the Deputy Chair of the Committee for Employment and Learning. Although I am not speaking as Minister, I may very indirectly refer to some of the comments made by him and also by Pat Ramsey and, earlier on, Alasdair McDonnell that affect those particular issues. <BR /> <BR />The proposition before us today is a very simple one. It is about keeping the flow of money in Northern Ireland going while we create the space to resolve the deep political and financial issues that we face. In itself, the Bill does not resolve those, but it does create that time. However, that time will be short.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Like a lot of Members, I have been careful not to let frustrations boil over at the comments that he is making, given the clear lack of an alternative being set out. If people vote no, the course that we will be on is one of even steeper cuts that will occur in July. Does the Member recognise that it is my judgement, as the person with direct responsibility for further and higher education, and that of those with whom I work, that the course of action that the Member and other parties are taking is doing more to undermine the points that he is advocating than anything else that is happening in society?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that, while I accept the point he is making, it is easier for Governments to go through a process of public-sector reform and find efficiencies when Budget savings are being found over longer periods? In the situation that we find ourselves in today, where we have an unstable Budget and the potential for in-year cuts, the scope for Departments to engage in that type of activity, through no fault of their own, is badly constrained by the wider political context.”
“— beyond anyone's reach, not least because we have to respect the democratic wishes of the people of Northern Ireland. There are a lot of not only political and constitutional but financial and economic issues that we have to square if we are to make progress over the coming days.”
“If Sinn Féin is essentially linking delivery of a united Ireland in the short run and as a precondition to progress on all these issues, it is obviously erecting a bar that is —”
“We are here to add value and make a difference, not always by spending money in different ways but by showing creativity in policy and the type of projects we put in place and ensuring that those projects are much more in keeping with our set of affairs. <BR /> <BR />Most troublingly, if you join the dots in what Conor Murphy said implicitly on 'The Stephen Nolan Show' last week, Sinn Féin not only insists that it be immune from what happens in the UK as a whole, bypassing entirely the principle of consent, but believes that Northern Ireland must have the ability to determine its own future and that, because in itself Northern Ireland is not sustainable, there needs to be an all-Ireland framework.”
“Indeed, if we were to imagine a future united Ireland, unless there were a major change of circumstances, Northern Ireland or a devolved Administration in the northern part of the island would be very heavily dependent on a fiscal transfer from the Irish Government as a whole, which themselves have gone through a process of austerity and spending cuts. They could then put a lot of pressure on public spending in Northern Ireland, and the same arguments would be voiced again. <BR /> <BR />The approach also does a great disservice to the creativity and innovation that has been shown under devolution. We are not simply here to dole out money on behalf of others.”
“That is not what they were elected into politics for. Certainly, I do not want to be in a situation in which I am cutting budgets; I find it incredibly difficult, and it pains me every time that I am forced to make a cut. However, we have to recognise the wider constitutional reality: we are part of a UK framework, and that is where our public spending comes from. We do not have the resources to go it alone and have a free-standing situation. Insofar as tax-varying powers can be considered, it has to be in a framework in which we are still dependent to a very large extent on the Treasury.”
“I do not see how having an understanding of this year's financial framework will, in any way, shape or form, prejudice our ability to argue our case — our special case and our special circumstances — in any process of dialogue with the Treasury over the years to come. Those who are deliberately holding out on providing financial certainty because of their stated concerns about what may happen in the future need fundamentally to reassess their position. <BR /> <BR />Perhaps even more fundamental political and constitutional questions are being raised. We hear talk, particularly from Sinn Féin but echoed implicitly by the SDLP, that they want to be masters of their destiny in Northern Ireland and that they are not here to administer cuts on behalf of the UK Government.”
“<BR /> <BR />If we drill even more deeply, we find troubling issues that need to be teased out. I appreciate that a lot of people have very deep concerns about the cuts made to the Northern Ireland block grant over the past number of years. Also, there is uncertainty about the future, with the very real prospect of cuts to welfare payments and the Northern Ireland block grant in the immediate years to come. If we are to fight that process and join forces with Scotland and Wales to present a common front, surely our position will be strengthened if we are able to show that we are capable of acting in a responsible manner through having resolved the financial pressures facing us this year. By contrast, if we go into that process with those issues unresolved, our credibility will be so much weaker.”
“The two nationalist parties articulated concerns about the cuts and talked about how terrible it is that this is happening, that that is happening and that we are missing out on opportunities. If they had any sense of joining the dots, they would recognise that the failure to deliver the agreements at Stormont House and Stormont Castle and the failure to face up to the realities of welfare reform are plunging Northern Ireland into financial uncertainty, and that is making the pressures on public services and on the economic levers that transform our economy even more acute. Every time individuals stand up and talk about cuts, they need to look at themselves in the mirror and ask what they are doing to help or hinder that particular situation. Are they part of the problem or part of the solution?”
“We have to act quickly to resolve the outstanding issues because, if we keep putting off their resolution until the late summer and into the autumn, when we finally reach a conclusion on the way forward, we may well face even steeper cuts than those that we have had to face so far. Much less time will be available to deliver those cuts, meaning that the options available to Ministers and Departments will be much more constrained and the pain across society even deeper. We have a duty to give those whom we serve a degree of financial certainty as early as we possibly can. <BR /> <BR />There was a degree of unreality in some of the remarks that I heard from Members from all Benches, particularly from the two nationalist parties. I know that the Green Party will join in later.”
“In that eventuality, there would be not only a political problem but a financial problem, in that we would be facing much deeper cuts even than those that we wrestle with at present, with all of the pain that has been articulated not just by MLAs but by people across society over the past number of weeks and months. <BR /> <BR />At the very best, agreeing the motion does not in itself resolve any of those political and financial issues, but it buys us a little time. I have to confess that I have a slight reservation about proceeding on this basis because, true to form, there is a danger of people sitting back and becoming complacent: somehow, having got over one hurdle, money can be spent regardless. We have to use the time that we buy wisely, and time is not a luxury that we have.”
“<BR /> <BR />Obviously, we would not wish to start from this place, but the least irresponsible thing to do is to proceed and ensure that we have some sort of legal framework in place around money. We have a duty to ensure that the money does not run out, and anyone who is thinking of voting against the Supply resolution this evening needs to think very long and hard about what the consequences would be of a no vote and, indeed, if the Assembly were to follow suit and endorse their perspective on a no vote. That would mean that, in the absence of an intervention from the DFP permanent secretary, the money would run out.”
“<BR /> <BR />As we meet today, that context takes on a certain air of unreality, because we all know that there are some major financial challenges facing Northern Ireland, most of which are self-inflicted wounds due to our lack of ability to agree on the politics of the way forward. Northern Ireland is in a bad place financially and politically, in the sense that we do not have a sustainable framework of public finances. The immediate issue, above and beyond those wider structural difficulties that I have alluded to, lies in the non-implementation of the Stormont Castle agreement and the Stormont House Agreement, including the thorny and difficult but inescapable issue of welfare reform.”
“<BR /> <BR />As people know, my party opposed the Budget in the Executive for a host of reasons, including a lack of strategic thinking for the future and difficult decisions not being taken, including a fair and balanced approach to revenue-raising issues and issues around the cost of division. Those are all issues that are big structural difficulties within our Budget. Once that debate happened this year and a democratic agreement was made, we all had a duty to ensure that we follow through with the supply of the necessary resource. So, as we find ourselves in June, our duty is to ensure that we follow through with that Budget, albeit one that we believe was flawed in a number of respects. That is our responsibility as legislators in this context.”
“All in good time. <BR /> <BR />At this stage, it is important that we understand and recognise what we are doing today and what we are being asked to do today and over the next couple of weeks, namely to pass a Supply resolution to authorise the supply of resource and pass a Budget Bill to give legal authority to Departments to spend that money. That should be the normal course of action during any financial year. The Executive and Assembly take policy decisions in terms of the Budget resolution, and then there is a responsibility on the Assembly to ensure that that money flows.”
“I am speaking as an ordinary MLA, and I will resist the temptation to respond to some of the comments made by Mr Swann in his capacity as Chair of the Employment and Learning Committee.”
“Obviously, we would like to do more. What is important is that we that we have the resources to do more and that, through careers, we have a good throughput of young people who are interested in skills and careers in this area.”
“We announced the rebuilding of the Bernard Crossland Building at Queen's earlier this year to facilitate expansion in that regard. Notwithstanding the cuts that the higher education sector is facing, I am pleased that it has given a commitment to seek to protect narrow STEM subjects, which are of particular relevance to the IT sector. <BR /> <BR />We are also looking to develop higher-level apprenticeships in IT, and, again, one of our early works under the new strategy is a sectoral partnership on that. We also developed a number of different academies under our Assured Skills programme, working predominantly in the IT sector in areas such as data analytics, cloud computing and software testing. Again, that is proving a very good way of providing, in effect, a conversion course for young people to enter the IT sector.”
“I welcome the Member's interest in the IT sector. It is a sector with huge potential for the local economy, and it is also one that has grown very significantly over recent years. Indeed, it never really experienced a recession as such, unlike some other areas. We have an ICT working group that brings together universities, colleges, Departments and the business community to map out the needs of the sector. Indeed, a meeting has been scheduled for a couple of weeks to review progress on that. <BR /> <BR />There is a global shortage of IT skills, so Northern Ireland is not alone in having that particular pressure point, but we have a range of different interventions that we are taking forward. We have seen a significant increase in the number of places at university and an increase in the interest and application rate to them.”
“Again, we need to be conscious of the timescales in this, because we want to respect the company's ongoing business needs, but I am more than satisfied that there is a full commitment from it to work with us at the appropriate time to make sure that we fully implement the opportunities that are there to assist the workers.”
“I am happy to give the Member that reassurance. I am conscious of the interest of the outgoing Ballymena Borough Council, which, if my lingo is correct, is now Mid and East Antrim Borough Council. I know that it is very keen to work with them. We also highlighted the potential for a critical mass of highly skilled workers, particularly with engineering skills, to come on to the market. As the Member knows, there are engineering companies out there that are keen to recruit. We are seeing what we can do to match workers coming out of JTI with opportunities.”
“<BR /> <BR />While not wishing to disrupt the factory's ongoing work, which is of importance and which, if anything, has been intensifying in recent months, there is a commitment from JTI to work closely with the Department and the Northern Regional College over a skills audit and to then see what additional courses can be put in place to facilitate the retraining of workers who are affected by redundancy.”
“There are a number of different initiatives that we committed to doing. One is the potential pursuit of an application to the European globalisation adjustment fund. On previous occasions, I reported to the Assembly the parameters around which a bid needs to be made and the potential difficulties we perceive in trying to see how JTI would fit into it. Ultimately, it will be a decision for the Department for Work and Pensions in London on taking forward a bid, given that it is the national Government in that regard. Again, that is a discussion that we will have to have. That bid can be made only in the context of the redundancies becoming live. As the Member knows, they are still some time away. This is a rather unusual situation to come before us.”
“We now take the view that that is better devolved through the FE colleges, where they already have a business development infrastructure, and it is best to build upon that and have that seen as the first point of contact for local businesses. So, we will reroute contacts back to the FE colleges with a stronger localised knowledge to engage with their local community.”
“Also, when they are developing their community plans, skilling and upskilling will be key elements for what they are seeking to do on the economy, and they will quite rightly be looking to FE colleges to provide a lot of the solutions. We are encouraging FE colleges to be the first point of contact for businesses and, by extension, councils at a local level, appreciating that Northern Ireland is not homogeneous and that there are different specialities in different areas, so, again, that is an opportunity. <BR /> <BR />We also recently devolved what was formerly known as the Department's skills solution service to the FE colleges. Previously, when businesses wanted solutions to their training needs, they went to centralised services.”
“I am happy to encourage that. In January, I hosted a dinner between the incoming chief executives of the 11 councils and the directors of the six FE colleges to spark those types of conversations. A number of initiatives are being pursued already in that regard at different speeds in different parts of Northern Ireland. I am hearing some very strong noises about the Northern Regional College and BMC. It is very proactive in that area with Belfast City Council, so, in the Member's area, that work is happening. <BR /> <BR />There is a very clear opportunity for community planning and urban regeneration for colleges.”
“It is not a form of reconstitution as such because we are going through a process of gradual incremental change, but there are a number of governor posts that we will seek to fill in the coming weeks. That is at a fairly advanced stage. Given the nature of public appointments, as the Member will well know, I, as Minister, simply sign off on the specification at the outset of the process and then I have no role until recommendations come forward to me from the panels that study the applications for me to make the final appointments. We are not at that stage just yet, but my understanding is that that will be with me in the next few weeks.”
“We will send on a copy of the press release and associated information that will list all the programmes that are happening. I will not attempt to list all the areas off the top of my head, but the Member will be aware of the general priorities that we have for research, particularly life sciences, cybersecurity, agriculture, agrifood, nanotechnology and other areas of life sciences. Those are areas where we believe there are strengths on both sides of the border. We are very keen to build on existing strengths, but we will ensure that the Member has the full list of projects, who is undertaking them and the institutions involved with them.”
“We are very hopeful that there will be some very strong progress on Horizon 2020 over the coming months, and I urge the Member to look out for that. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I stress that we are privileged to be part of the US-Ireland research and development alliance, which is an agreement between both jurisdictions on the island and the US State Department. That sponsors a number of collaborative projects. We are seeking to build upon all our different strengths and to make a much bigger impact.”
“The collaboration that we do, particularly around the SFI-DEL investigators programme partnership, gives us a very strong foundation on which we can then move into Horizon 2020. Other collaborations are already happening in that regard, and, of course, given that it is European funding involved, they are very keen to push collaboration between different jurisdictions.”
“A number of different initiatives are under way, and, as the Member will know, it is important that we seek to develop more and more collaboration on high-level research. A global phenomenon is what is expected. Several years ago, I signed an agreement with Richard Bruton, my equivalent in the Republic of Ireland, for a partnership between Science Foundation Ireland (SFI) and my Department to support collaborative funding for research on a North/South basis. Indeed, we announced a number of such projects during May. The Member is hopefully aware of that, and we can provide further details if she wishes to receive them. <BR /> <BR />The Executive are very keen that we maximise the drawdown from Horizon 2020, and some very challenging targets have been set.”
“As the Member knows, the college is extremely proactive in almost every area of its work and is very much part and parcel of the community. We have had ongoing discussions with the college on the whole spectrum of its activity. Like others, it is trying to do its best in very trying circumstances to ensure that it can continue to deliver. It is conscious of issues around trying to ensure that there is a level playing field for provision across all areas, and, in that regard, it is not any different from any other college, given that there are always issues around ensuring that there is equal provision in different parts of Northern Ireland. It is almost impossible to provide that, given the nature of geography and funding limitations.”
“There is also a role for the Department of Education in planning better for transitions, for the Department of Health in day-centre provision and for DRD on transport facilities. Work is under way with Departments to try to ensure a more coordinated approach, but it is important to bear in mind that, as with everything at this stage, we are hampered by a lack of finance.”
“I thank the Member for her ongoing interest in the area. As she will know, we conducted an audit on further education provision across Northern Ireland in those areas, and we are trying to preserve things in the face of pressures in the sector, and, indeed, in other sectors, at present. <BR /> <BR />The issue of transitions is being discussed at Executive subcommittee level. It is one of the topics that was discussed by the Bamford committee dealing with mental health and learning disability issues, and an action plan has recently been agreed across Departments on how to co-ordinate services better. There is a range of different players involved. My Department has a role to play in further education.”
“Between 2013 and 2014, those opportunities were taken up by 106 people across Northern Ireland. However, it is not possible, at this stage, to break the figures down to a constituency level. Seven high-level pilots are under way across five occupational areas including professional services, ICT, engineering, accountancy and life sciences, and off-the-job training has been tested by four further education (FE) colleges, including the Northern Regional College (NRC). They are working with employers including Schrader Electronics, Acute Engineering Surveys (AES) Ltd and Michelin to deliver an engineering apprenticeship. <BR /> <BR />In total, there are now over 120 higher-level apprentices working with 46 different employers across Northern Ireland.”
“Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, with your permission, I wish to group questions 7 and 14 and request an additional minute for the answer. <BR /> <BR />The latest published figures indicate that, at the end of January this year, 461 apprentices from the South Antrim constituency were undertaking Apprenticeship NI-funded training in a range of subject areas. Engineering has the highest programme occupancy in any single area, with 88 apprentices. Of the overall number, 228 apprentices are working towards level 3 apprenticeship framework qualifications, including 46 undertaking level 2 en route to level 3, and 233 are working towards level 2 apprenticeship framework qualifications. <BR /> <BR />The Department is in the early stages of testing higher level apprenticeships as part of the implementation of the new strategy.”
“— we are talking about a situation in which we will need recurring money, in excess of £29 million or £30 million every year, to facilitate that. That is on top of the very deep cut to higher education that we already face. <BR /> <BR />I hear the Member mentioning from the sidelines that that is not what he asked. He asked whether there was any progress on increasing MaSN. There is no point in increasing MaSN if you do not have the money to back it up: it is an utterly futile and pointless gesture to make.”