Stephen Farry
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Speaking for a party that has a longer pedigree in advocating a public inquiry than both the DUP and Sinn Féin, I nonetheless welcome this announcement, despite the torturous path that we have had and, indeed, the missed opportunities.”
“The first was a reform of the petition of concern to take it back to the original intent when it was designed in 1998. It was clear at that stage that Arlene Foster banged the table and said, "No, never. We are not doing that. That is a way whereby we are going to have to fold on equal marriage: it's not happening".”
“<BR /> <BR />The main points that I make concern the substance of the order. There are probably three aspects that the Minister needs to address properly before the Assembly, and they really relate to what other options he has.”
“That raises the question of why they want to go as far as 2022, especially when I am not sure — I would welcome any clarification to the contrary on it — that there has been formal Executive approval of this.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are three major substantive issues that I do not believe have been properly aired on this: VAT; European Commission infraction proceedings; and, most important, the opportunity foregone to revisit the classification of Northern Ireland Water and the ability, through a separate water charge, to allow it to borrow commerc…”
“While my party was supportive of the Good Friday Agreement back in 1998, at that time, we expressed some reservations around the very detailed nature of the proposals and how those could, in due course, destabilise Northern Ireland and prevent us from realising our full potential. We have been very much vindicated in that analysis.”
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“There are particular issues that we need to bottom through.”
“However, reconciliation is also about building friendships and overcoming divisions. It is possible that you could achieve that type of outcome through people tolerating activities better in different parts of the community rather than a genuine coming together, so we need to be careful as to exactly how that will be achieved. <BR /> <BR />Also, we need to have some concern about how far we go in focusing on the regional imbalance in our economy. We need to transform the Northern Ireland economy overall, and we need to recognise that there are imbalances and try to address those, but, if we become a slave to that, we might end up overly micromanaging investment decisions and neglecting the ability of greater Belfast to drive our economy — not just the areas around greater Belfast but all of Northern Ireland.”
“We are talking serious reform or, potentially, some form of revenue raising or addressing the cost of division. <BR /> <BR />I will spend the balance of my time focusing on some of the specifics that have been set out. Some of them are good and sound — for example, what we are doing on skills. I am pleased to see that there is recognition of gradation with skills, and we are not looking at a very flat indicator; that is positive. I am glad that economic inactivity is mentioned. The logic there is that we efficiently implement the existing strategy that was agreed by the previous Executive. <BR /> <BR />I have concerns about other areas. If we are talking about increasing reconciliation, the theme seems to be about people respecting different cultural traditions in society, which may be one aspect of reconciliation.”
“I am all for spending the right amount of money on health to achieve much better outcomes, but surely the most logical thing to do is to put in place the reform process and work out what we need to spend to achieve outcomes and to resource that transformation, rather than making an arbitrary commitment now that the round figure of an additional £1 billion will be spent by 2021. In particular, the realisation of that outcome in the absence of other efficiencies being found means that we are looking at very stringent cuts to other Departments if we are to achieve that £1 billion extra for health. That will undermine a lot of the draft framework's other worthy objectives. When I say "efficiencies", I mean more than simply tampering with the levels of rate exemptions, rate capping or abolishing a few quangos here and there.”
“That is fine: we are a political Assembly. However, when that happens, it portrays the true disingenuousness as to how those targets can be reached. The process can be compromised through too many political considerations coming from the different partners in government. <BR /> <BR />I have a concern about what has been said about health. There has been a lot of focus on the importance of setting objectives and following through in due course with policies to get that outcome, but the two parties in the Executive are both making a commitment to spending an additional £1 billion of revenue spending on health by 2021. That seems to run entirely counter to the approach that is being adopted.”
“While I can understand Members' frustrations that certain actions are not mentioned at this stage, if the process is respected to its logical conclusion, the Executive should come forward with proposals that will get us to the outcome most effectively. At times, however, we may disagree about what those may be — I suspect that there will be disagreement in the Executive parties as to what those may be — but I believe that the theory remains sound. <BR /> <BR />From our experience of the Executive, not only of being in the Executive but of being in opposition under previous mandates, we are sceptical about how genuine the situation will be with the Executive's adopting the most logical approach to achieving the objectives. Far too often, other considerations enter into the equation, which sometimes reflect political realities.”
“That said, the concept makes considerable sense. It is better than an arbitrary list of action points and targets thrown in by Departments, which may or may not be realised. Instead, we have a series of high-level set objectives. By definition, this will come across as motherhood and apple pie at this stage: that is the nature of the process. The real test will come in due course with the targets that are set, how challenging those will be and the policies, programmes and resources that will be allocated to turning those targets into reality. <BR /> <BR />There is a logic in developing the most rational policies and practices that will get us to the targets that have been set out most efficiently with regard to resources.”
“However, at no stage have we formally endorsed the content. The development of the content was accelerated in the final few weeks before the election by the Civil Service and also in discussions between those parties who were joining the Executive in the past couple of weeks.”
“Given that we participated in the early stages of the process, up to the point of the election being called, we have certainly given our implicit endorsement of the process.”
“Thank you very much. Certainly, my view is that governance around decision-making in the social investment fund is poor and is more prone to risk than would be the case in the normal processes that are run through Departments. Indeed, if there are concerns about the lack of attention to certain issues, that can be rectified. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to the motion and the framework. In common with my colleague Naomi Long, I stress that we believe that the concept is essentially sound but is clearly still under development. We are keeping an open mind at this stage and are withholding our final judgement until we see the detail over the autumn. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, as a party, we are comfortable with the general direction of travel.”
“Madam Principal Deputy Speaker, I was slightly alarmed at your cutting off Mr McElduff prematurely, because I wanted to hear a bit more about the split in Sinn Féin over this issue. <BR /> <BR />Before I get into detail, reference has been made to the social investment fund. At times, the opposition parties may well disagree on issues, and I will come to our approach to that shortly. To follow on from the comments made by Claire Hanna, I would say that it is worth referencing that nothing that has been done through the social investment fund could not have been achieved by Departments putting programmes in place on the ground. Sometimes, the issue seems to be who is getting the funding as opposed to the ability of Departments to spend that type of money.”
“I accept that we have to recognise that there will be particular substrategies plus the overarching economic strategy.”
“It is important that we have that proper, rounded discussion with the business community and particularly those in manufacturing as to how best we can serve their interests and keep an open mind as to what the best set of structures will be in that regard. I regard this as being a false choice, because I believe that there is scope for us to do something that is particularly focused on manufacturing in the broadest sense.”
“That strategy will make references to other strategies — for example, the current skills strategy or the STEM strategy. There are a lot of particular issues around skills. When we look to manufacturing, we see a range of interventions in particular subsections of manufacturing, whether it is life sciences or IT. Indeed, Invest NI has a number of initiatives in that regard already. <BR /> <BR />It is also important that we recognise that manufacturing is very diverse. It ranges from things like life sciences through to plastics and heavy engineering. There is also an ongoing debate as to whether agrifood is part of manufacturing: some people count it as part of manufacturing, and some do not. Of course, we already have a separate strategy there, Going for Growth.”
“At the same time, it is important that we recognise that, while there is serious scope for growth, we have a healthy situation and employment in manufacturing is at a level exceeding the figures as far back as 2008. We have many strengths, and we are seeing an evolution of our manufacturing sector or sectors in a move to more high-value-added jobs. That involves some bad news at the same time as we are having good news about new jobs being created. <BR /> <BR />In terms of the architecture itself, I see the choice between the motion and the amendment as being a false binary choice. It is important that we recognise that manufacturing must be central to any new or refreshed economic strategy, but there may well be scope for doing additional and more detailed work outside the very particular confines of the economic strategy.”
“Even the abolition of quangos does not produce a huge amount of additional resource, because the functions of quangos still have to be addressed elsewhere in the system. It is important that, when we talk about the steps that are required, we put in place the resources to ensure that they come forward. If we are talking today about this historic moment of opposition and even constructive opposition, that is not just about being an Opposition with a nice smile; it is about having a clear alternative and ensuring that it is feasible and can be properly resourced. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that manufacturing in Northern Ireland is going through challenging times. There have been a lot of negative headlines and bad news stories in particular over the past 12 months.”
“I also pass on my congratulations to the Ulster Unionist Party on its new-found appreciation of the value of strategies. As someone who listened in the past mandate to them bemoaning yet another strategy and demanding action, I note that finally they have recognised that a strategy is useful for crystallising visions, aims and objectives and for setting out the action points that will be taken and, crucially, the resourcing that will be set aside against those. <BR /> <BR />Indeed, while Mr Aiken read out a very important list of initiatives that could be taken to improve manufacturing, it is important that we are also mindful of the resources required to turn that into a reality. The only commitment that I heard to new resources was some minor tinkering with quangos.”
“It is clearly in the interest of Northern Ireland that we remain part of the European Union, particularly for the manufacturing sector, which already depends very much on exports and access to international markets for its current level of activity. If we are to follow through on the laudable objectives of increasing the share of our economy for manufacturing, it is only through exports that that will be realised. Being part of Europe is absolutely fundamental to the future of manufacturing here. <BR /> <BR />It is also worth taking a moment to think about exactly what we will be doing in terms of manufacturing. It is important that this does not become an issue of the precise architecture of how strategies fit together but is more about the commitments that people will be making to turn those into reality.”
“That is the protocol out of the way. <BR /> <BR />In any discussion on manufacturing, we must bear in mind that we meet with the referendum barely weeks ahead of us. That colours anything that is said in the Chamber about manufacturing.”
“I congratulate Sinead Bradley on her maiden speech. I have no doubt that she will follow in the footsteps of her predecessors in giving a very passionate voice to the people of South Down. I also pass on my congratulations to Mr Aiken on his maiden speech, the Minister on his appointment and, obviously, you, Mr Speaker, on your appointment as well.”
“Today, however, we are focusing purely on having a solid foundation for clear transparency around information sharing on what is being generated in relation to the apprenticeship levy. It is very much in our interests as an Administration to ensure that, whatever the future holds, we have a solid foundation based upon the evidence regarding financial matters.”
“In a similar light, when I speak to the Secretary of State later this afternoon about the matter, I will reinforce the points that have been made and reflect to her the comments made by Members during this debate today. The Department of Finance and Personnel is also making representations to Her Majesty's Treasury — in particular, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Greg Hands — about the issue of transparency and the need to ensure that we get what is due to us through Barnett as part of the apprenticeship levy. Those efforts and discussions are continuing, and we will continue with that right through to the election and beyond. <BR /> <BR />I reiterate that this is a much wider policy debate today. There is an emerging consensual view in the House about the risks of this approach and the need for mitigating measures.”
“<BR /> <BR />In response to the Chair and Deputy Chair, work is ongoing in relation to ensuring that Northern Ireland's interests are taken into account in decisions in this regard. Beyond my own and my officials' engagement with our counterparts in Scotland and Wales and also with BIS, the First Minister and deputy First Minister have written on behalf of the Executive to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to ensure that, in wider discussions at Cabinet level, our particular interests are taken into account and, in particular, that concern and consideration is given to ensuring that the proper resourcing returns to Northern Ireland.”
“That will come back into the central pot, and, quite rightly, the Chair and Deputy Chair have commented on the importance of this money being redirected back into supporting skills and, specifically, apprenticeships and other forms of training. At the very least, given that local companies will be paying this, I think that there will be an expectation from the business community that it will see that money recycled by the Executive into those types of provisions. Those are all issues that still need to be addressed, of course, by the incoming Executive after the election, but, if there is a strong consensus across the political parties that that is the way to go, I am sure that that will be the course of action that the Executive will take in due course.”
“I welcome the Member's intervention. To answer the second point, there are procedures in place between the UK Government and the three devolved Administrations around addressing issues where there is, shall we say, default on either policy issues or, indeed, financial issues. It is in that respect that it is so important that we have this clear line of sight on the revenue that is being raised in Northern Ireland, to make sure that we can properly police it. It is our hope that the transfer back to Northern Ireland will be through the Barnett formula, and the figures that Members are talking about may well be the ultimate figure. It could potentially be slightly higher.”
“Elsewhere in the UK there may well be other businesses that are in difficult economic times — for example, the oil and gas sector — and which may not be interested in training at this time and which pay this levy nonetheless. There are major issues at a UK level about the wisdom of this policy, but there is also the potential for this to walk across the devolution settlement with our own discretion on how we set our own skills and training policies locally and the distortion that will flow in that regard.”
“Indeed, we have met and discussed this on a number of occasions and also have met collectively with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, as have my officials and those Departments' respective officials, to express our concerns. <BR /> <BR />This is essentially a tax on employment, and, on the one hand, at a time when we are on the brink of having a greater degree of incentive through a lower rate of corporation tax, at the same time, that incentive is being blunted by this levy. It also will work as a bit of a blunt instrument for different companies that may be in different places with training. For example, we have had the recent news that Bombardier is not well placed to engage in training, given what is obviously happening with its current situation globally.”
“The Chair and the Deputy Chair have alluded to the wider policy and financial implications that flow from this, and I think that we are very much at one in this regard. While, today, we have the opportunity to pass what is in essence a technical matter regarding information transparency and information flow, there are some very important issues that we will have to address as an Executive and, indeed, as an Assembly over the coming 12 months until the point when the levy goes live in April 2017. I do have deep concerns about the levy and its implications for Northern Ireland. These concerns are shared by my counterparts in Scotland and Wales.”
“I thank the Chair and the Deputy Chair for their contributions. I anticipate the support of the House for the LCM. <BR /> <BR />I will respond to the comments collectively. The Chair and the Deputy Chair reflected on the necessity that we have a clear line of sight of the revenue that is generated in Northern Ireland by local companies, how it will feed into our approach of ensuring that we receive the full return of that money so that it can be reinvested in Northern Ireland and associated issues in relation to the flow of resources. Without that, we will be operating potentially blind, and our ability to hold the Westminster Government to account on what is our due will be severely curtailed. I welcome the appreciation of the necessity to have this in place as a lever to ensure that we have transparency in this matter.”
“<BR /> <BR />Wales and Scotland are bringing forward relevant legislative consent motions within the current mandate to extend powers to enable apprenticeships information sharing with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. Therefore, I reiterate that it is important that Northern Ireland is not disadvantaged by a lack of access to information relating to the apprenticeship levy. The ability for Northern Ireland to access and share data with HMRC will ensure greater transparency on the levy revenue streams at a local level. I commend the motion to the House”
“The legislation will enable the Department or other relevant authorities in Northern Ireland to access data on levy payments due from employers in Northern Ireland. It will assist the management of apprenticeship funding in an effective and transparent way. For example, it can help to plan and target funding and to align policies to levy payments made by employers. It can then be used to inform employers of their entitlement to funding. Access to information on levy payments will be simple and efficient and will minimise the administrative burden on businesses, as data will be shared between HMRC and the new Department for the Economy.”
“<BR /> <BR />This function will be vital for transparency on how much Northern Ireland employers are paying into the levy and, importantly, for openness, fairness and equity on exactly how much of the levy is coming back into Northern Ireland. The provisions stipulate that Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs may disclose information held by it on apprenticeships in Northern Ireland and that the relevant Northern Ireland authority, namely the new Department for the Economy, can request HMRC to disclose information held by it. <BR /> <BR />In summary, extending the provisions in the Enterprise Bill to Northern Ireland will allow us to access information about levy payments made by employers. That is tax information held by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, and any release of information is permissive.”
“The Westminster Bill will put in place a UK-wide information gateway relating to apprenticeships, and, for policy reasons, it is helpful that those provisions extend to Northern Ireland. The information-sharing gateway with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs is a technical issue; nevertheless, it is a practical and important matter in the provision of information that is key to Northern Ireland apprenticeships. It will be essential to avoid an information deficit specific to revenues to and from the apprenticeship levy in Northern Ireland, which would result in a distinct disadvantage for us compared with the rest of the UK. Therefore, it is important to ensure that Northern Ireland can obtain and share information with HMRC.”
“However, it is worth noting that a number of provisions in the Enterprise Bill have been the subject of recent debate in this House, specifically in considering provisions in the Bill relating to the extension of powers on the capping of public-sector exit payments and the Small Business Commissioner. <BR /> <BR />I should say up front that the LCM deals solely with the provision of extending powers for apprenticeships: information sharing and not the apprenticeship levy itself. I would like to stress that the apprenticeship levy is a fiscal measure and is, therefore, a reserved matter, which will be legislated for by the UK Government and will apply across the UK as a whole from April 2017 to the private and public sectors.”
“<BR /> <BR />The legislative consent motion is required to allow the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to extend provisions in the Enterprise Bill to allow the relevant Northern Ireland authority, namely the new Department for the Economy, to access an information sharing gateway with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs to retrieve information relating to the revenue streams relevant to Northern Ireland with respect to the apprenticeship levy. <BR /> <BR />By way of background, the Westminster Enterprise Bill, sponsored by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, makes provision relating to the promotion of enterprise and economic growth, not all of which will apply to Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the House for its agreement to suspend the Standing Order to allow the debate to proceed on the LCM on apprenticeships: information sharing. I am pleased that I am able to move the legislative consent motion today, given that the need for it was identified only in late January. <BR /> <BR />The swift progress has been in no small part due to the work of the Employment and Learning Committee in facilitating the briefing by my officials, and reporting on a very demanding schedule. I would also like to express my gratitude to the Committee Chair, as well as the members and staff, for the detailed scrutiny that has been so properly provided in spite of the short time available to them.”
“Therefore, I would be grateful for the Assembly's agreement to suspend Standing Order 42A(8) to enable me to move the legislative consent motion on apprenticeships: information sharing today. I commend the motion to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />The reason for moving this today is that the final amending stage for the Bill in the House of Commons is this week and, with it, the risk that the UK Government would feel obliged to remove the extension of the relevant provisions to Northern Ireland in the absence of full Assembly endorsement. <BR /> <BR />I do not wish to prejudice the outcome of the Assembly's decision on the legislative consent motion. Nevertheless, I feel that it is essential that the Assembly is given the opportunity to make such a decision this week and for that decision to actually mean something as far as the extension of the provisions to Northern Ireland is concerned.”
“At the outset, let me say that I very much appreciate the prompt consideration by the Committee for Employment and Learning of my proposal for a legislative consent motion (LCM) in relation to the apprenticeships: information sharing provisions of the Enterprise Bill. I also welcome the Committee's support for the motion, as recorded in its report published last Thursday, 3 March. <BR /> <BR />Standing Order 42A(8) states that, normally, a legislative consent motion should not be moved until at least five working days after the publication of the relevant Committee report. In normal circumstances, therefore, the debate on the LCM in this case should be held, at the earliest, at one of Assembly plenaries next week.”
“I very much welcome the report, and, as I said, I give a commitment that I will formally respond to the Committee before the end of the mandate, so that members can at least see, on an interim basis, how government envisages taking forward the recommendations from a very detailed report and an extremely worthwhile exercise.”
“In addition, the Careers Service will play a critical role in that work experience, including new portals and websites to ensure that we have proper visibility and equality of access. <BR /> <BR />I know only too well, from my engagement with young people with learning disabilities, their families and through representations that I have received from elected representatives, that this is an increasingly important matter for them and requires a concerted cross-departmental effort if we are to deliver better-quality services.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee's report rightly flags up the need for more robust data collection and information-sharing systems to enable the tracking of young people, including those with learning disabilities. My Department has been exploring this area of work for some time, and we continue to advocate the use of the unique learner number to facilitate tracking the destinations of young people. <BR /> <BR />Work experience and job placements are important aspects of increasing skills and building confidence, and the strategy will also help to facilitate engagement with local businesses in encouraging them to consider the benefits of taking on young people with learning disabilities.”
“My Department’s Careers Service offers support to young people beyond school, in particular to young people who are not in education, employment or training, with a new strategy launched today. The continuation of the transition process past the stage of leaving school has a clear potential to impact on resources, but it must remain a key priority. <BR /> <BR />The report also recommends that my Department make its programmes more transparent and applicable for those with learning disabilities, including those with complex and high support needs. I assure Members that the new strategy will take that into account. There will also be a disability stakeholder forum, with a proposal that user group hubs will have a two-way link to the group. The forum will also have members who have disabilities, including learning disability.”
“It aims to build on the success of existing disability employment services and will focus on the needs of those with significant disability-related barriers to work. <BR /> <BR />I also want to highlight some more recent developments in order to give a flavour of how the strategy will address several other key recommendations that are my ministerial responsibility. On the transition process after leaving school, the new disability employment strategy proposes much of what has been recommended in the report, but delivery will need input from other key players.”
“Given that this is an issue on which there is total unanimity on the importance of and need for improved services, I encourage Members and political parties across the House to make a commitment that we will seek to ensure that there is proper coordination and that we will use that vehicle as a means to take on board not just the Committee's recommendations but some of the existing practice in a much more holistic way. <BR /> <BR />In the time available, I also want to highlight the work of my Department's Disability Employment Service (DES) and the fact that we are moving ahead. Over the coming weeks, I hope to announce a new employment strategy for people with disabilities that has been developed in close consultation with key stakeholders from the disability sector.”
“<BR /> <BR />I suggest that, as we present the findings of the Committee to the Bamford subcommittee of the Executive over the coming weeks or months — whenever the next meeting is scheduled — the action plan should provide the basis on which we can integrate the relevant recommendations and then have the ongoing monitoring of progress. In some respects, what has been happening behind closed doors in the Executive and in the process with the Committee may well readily come together in a revised and enlarged process.”
“That, of course, includes those with learning disabilities. <BR /> <BR />In a spirit of collaboration, my Department chaired an interdepartmental group on transitions that resulted in a transitions action plan being drafted. In May 2015, my Executive colleagues agreed the action plan, which sets out a range of proposed actions across government that aims to deliver improved support for people post-19 with severe learning disabilities. The action plan was monitored for the first time in September 2015. It represents a baseline position for Departments and identifies scope for change. The action plan is very much a living, breathing document, and the potential is there for it to be reviewed on an ongoing basis.”
“The ring-fenced funding for FE colleges enables them to provide the additional support required to allow students with learning disabilities to participate in mainstream FE provision or in discrete provision. Two and a half million pounds of that fund is used to provide additional technical and personal support, while £2 million is used to accommodate discrete provision in smaller class sizes. <BR /> <BR />Regarding social clauses, the Minister of Finance and Personnel agreed to my request to include an additional clause in public-sector contracts to:”
“With regard to my Department’s contribution to date, I hope that Members will indulge me for a few minutes as I outline a few improvements that I have taken forward over the past couple of years to help improve our offering. <BR /> <BR />There has been an increase of £1 million — to a total of £4·5 million — in the funding for students with learning disabilities through the further education additional support fund. That was in recognition of the importance of enabling access and providing support to students with learning disabilities to meet their goals in education, progression to employment or training or towards independent living.”
“Care is taken across the board to ensure that services and facilities are open to people with disabilities, including special educational needs and learning disabilities, and can be easily accessed by them. The Department will always welcome the opportunity to make any improvements that are necessary. <BR /> <BR />The Committee's extensive report contains 44 recommendations in total, 32 of which fall to DEL solely or jointly with other Departments. From my perspective as Minister for Employment and Learning, I and my officials will want to give careful consideration to the report to establish whether there are areas in which my Department's services can be improved.”