Stephen Farry
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Speaking for a party that has a longer pedigree in advocating a public inquiry than both the DUP and Sinn Féin, I nonetheless welcome this announcement, despite the torturous path that we have had and, indeed, the missed opportunities.”
“The first was a reform of the petition of concern to take it back to the original intent when it was designed in 1998. It was clear at that stage that Arlene Foster banged the table and said, "No, never. We are not doing that. That is a way whereby we are going to have to fold on equal marriage: it's not happening".”
“<BR /> <BR />The main points that I make concern the substance of the order. There are probably three aspects that the Minister needs to address properly before the Assembly, and they really relate to what other options he has.”
“That raises the question of why they want to go as far as 2022, especially when I am not sure — I would welcome any clarification to the contrary on it — that there has been formal Executive approval of this.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are three major substantive issues that I do not believe have been properly aired on this: VAT; European Commission infraction proceedings; and, most important, the opportunity foregone to revisit the classification of Northern Ireland Water and the ability, through a separate water charge, to allow it to borrow commerc…”
“While my party was supportive of the Good Friday Agreement back in 1998, at that time, we expressed some reservations around the very detailed nature of the proposals and how those could, in due course, destabilise Northern Ireland and prevent us from realising our full potential. We have been very much vindicated in that analysis.”
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“Contrary arguments are being made about increasing or decreasing those. By contrast, Scotland has provided free tuition for local students but has increased its funding of higher education from its block grant. Northern Ireland has attempted to find a middle course between the two, which is to keep fees down but without addressing the funding shortfall as fully as is necessary. <BR /> <BR />There is a structural issue regarding the funding of higher education in Northern Ireland. We need to address the funding gap first; otherwise, any expansion of Magee would be seeking to build on shaky foundations. Any failure to address the structural problems would entail a considerable dilution of quality. That is in no one's interests, and all our universities are clear on that point.”
“<BR /> <BR />With the efficiency savings asked for across the public sector during the current Budget period, combined with a restriction on income generation, our universities have a major challenge to match the rate of growth of the leading universities across these islands. To put it in perspective, the amount invested per university place in Northern Ireland is between £1,000 and £2,500 less than in English universities, depending on the funding band. To put it another way, the universities require an investment in the region of £25 million a year to remain competitive. <BR /> <BR />We should be conscious that, in different parts of these islands, different approaches to higher education funding have been adopted. England has opted for fees of up to £9,000 per annum.”
“The business case puts the costs at £23 million per annum. We need to check and challenge those figures as part of our scrutiny process — they could be much higher. Moreover, those costs represent recurrent expenditure; they would not be one-offs. <BR /> <BR />We are looking at the opportunity for Magee in what was already a difficult financial context for higher education in Northern Ireland. The points that I make here predate the current round of Budget cuts. The decision to freeze tuition fees for local students at local universities was the right one. It is a recognition of the Executive's commitment to widening participation. However, we must at the same time recognise that it does curtail the universities' ability to generate additional income.”
“The benefits would be the provision of higher-level skills; an increased boost for research capacity; the consolidation of Northern Ireland, and the north-west specifically, as an inward investment location; and the additional spending power in the economy that comes from a campus. <BR /> <BR />It is also worth stressing that, while Northern Ireland as a whole has a high level of participation in higher education, the local sector is small relative to our population. That provides a further rationale for expanding higher education provision in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Having set out the opportunities, I need, however, to explain the challenges that need to be confronted in order to make the ambitions that Members have expressed a reality. First, there are considerable cost implications to any expansion.”
“I welcome the opportunity to respond to today's debate. At the outset, I want to make a number of things clear. First, in principle, I want the expansion of the Magee campus of Ulster University. I am committed to doing what I can to make that a reality, subject to the discipline of the business case and economic appraisal and, crucially, the availability and sustainability of resources. <BR /> <BR />I understand the historical hurt and the timing of the motion in relation to the Lockwood report, but any decision to expand Magee would be about much more than addressing a historical wrong; it would be about a solid investment in the future of our society and our economy. I appreciate that an expansion would bring potential economic benefits to the north-west in particular and to Northern Ireland as a whole.”
“Let me be clear: the Northern Regional College will be a priority area of capital investment, albeit that our capital budgets are declining. We are looking for a new build in the northern part of the catchment area and a new build in the Ballymena area. We are still processing the business case. One particular issue that we need to bottom out relates to curriculum design and ensuring that what we are putting in place meets the needs of the future curriculum. Once that is in place, we will clear the business case and look to secure the resources to progress what are, hopefully, going to be two new builds in the area.”
“From recollection, I think that we cleared a response to the Member in that regard and the issue has been satisfactorily resolved. If the Member wishes to come back and feels that that is not the case, we are more than happy to entertain further representations. I think that the issue has been resolved. Hopefully the Member has received correspondence from the Department to that effect.”
“I cannot give the Member a direct answer on that point, and it is probably not appropriate to discuss an individual case on the Floor of the Assembly. I am pretty certain that I cleared a response to the Member about that. Hopefully it has been received and a positive solution has been obtained.”
“They are increasingly seen as the first point of contact with businesses, particularly SMEs, that are looking for skills and, increasingly, for research and innovation solutions. Some of the things that we are doing to manage the current budget problems and address duplication between the Department and the colleges have been resolved in favour of the colleges. We are trying to give them more power at a local level to engage with their local business communities to create local economic solutions.”
“If anything, we are probably likely to go in the opposite direction, given the real pressures with resources. One of the initiatives that we are seeking to take forward is the promotion of shared services across the six colleges to try to find efficiencies in provision. <BR /> <BR />One thing that is not on our agenda is any rationalisation of the six colleges down to five, four, three etc. On the other side, we are not seeking to devolve things any further. We have come from a position of having a larger number of colleges, and the decision to consolidate, quite rightly in my view, was taken about 10 years ago. <BR /> <BR />I also want to be clear that our colleges are incredibly responsive and have changed dramatically their engagement with their local businesses communities over the past number of years.”
“I cannot give the Member the complete figures. I will write to him in that regard. <BR /> <BR />The situation in the FE sector has meant that the colleges have faced declining financial support from government over the past seven or eight years and have not had any meaningful increases. At the same time, we have asked them to do a lot more, so they have been doing extremely well to maintain their level of activity on what is, in effect, a declining resource basis. <BR /> <BR />As the sponsoring body for the colleges, my Department keeps a close eye on their accounts. While deficits may occur from time to time, none of the colleges are causing us any concern with their direct financial management. As the Member may know, some colleges have been in a very worrying situation in the recent past.”
“Let me be very clear: organisations can appeal and we will listen to all the evidence that is provided. I am not part of that process. Equally, the Member needs to be aware, as does every other Member, that we have to ensure that we have an objective standard by which we allocate funds from the European social fund. Were we to find ourselves in a situation where the guidance notes and rules had not been followed, and if we were to bend those for particular organisations, that would have a knock-on effect for the integrity of the process. We would end up in a situation where a group that would otherwise be funded, and had followed the rules, would then have an even bigger potential claim against the Department.”
“It is important to bear in mind that we are currently going through a live process. Where groups wish to make an appeal, they can do so. At this stage, I should say that the guidance notes that were sent out in relation to the ESF round were very clear on the need for both audited accounts and management accounts. People were advised to ensure that they provided all the information requested. Nonetheless, where a group wishes to challenge or appeal any decision that has been taken, it is free to do so. A number of organisations are taking up that opportunity.”
“It is important that our colleges continue to outreach in the community. There are some good examples of students themselves, through community and voluntary work, working in disadvantaged communities on some of those issues. Indeed, students can get credit through the new higher education achievement report, which has been rolled out in our higher education sector for those non-curricular activities that are so important towards employability skills. It is a real benefit for students engaging in those types of activities. Without doubt, we are facing a potential loss of provision, and there is no plan B for how we can mop up. If we had additional resources, we would do what we would like to do in our existing plans.”
“We are also trying to see how some existing good practice can be replicated in the forthcoming European social fund (ESF) round. Applications have gone in on the basis of how they can engage with young people who are disengaged from the labour market. Indeed, that is one key feature of the current ESF round, which is a bigger round than in previous years. It is a very challenging situation, but, nonetheless, the strategy stays in place, and we will continue to see how we can find alternative means to deliver for that important group of young people.”
“Very clearly, there are some major challenges in relation to NEETs. We were lucky to have a very generous settlement from the Executive for our Pathways to Success strategy for the 2012-15 period. That funding package expires on 31 March. To be fair, that was always the understanding. Had the situation been different, I would have hoped that that funding package would be renewed. That has not been the case, so we have lost that money, in the same way that we have lost some of our jobs and economy initiative money. It then falls to us to see how we can best address those shortfalls. <BR /> <BR />We are looking at how we can continue the community family support programme, and I am optimistic that that will be the case.”
“In the 21st century, when we are trying to build a shared future, I find those attitudes to be utterly shocking.”
“First, people said that they did not feel safe celebrating their Irish culture outside the context of St Mary's. In terms of what we hear, particularly from unionist Benches, over our universities and the perception — false in my view — about the Gaelic culture in universities, I found that an incredibly strange and narrow approach to take. <BR /> <BR />I also heard people say that they did not see the need to engage in sharing. They were quite happy, having gone to a Catholic primary school and a Catholic secondary school, to go to a Catholic-based third-level education system, because they would be going on to teach in a Catholic secondary school or Catholic primary school when they qualify, so why did they need to mix with anyone else in society?”
“The Member knows well that, as a Minister, I am bound by the ministerial code and that, where a decision is taken by the Executive, that decision will be respected. However, that is not going to prevent me from ensuring that I continue to highlight the importance of prioritising skills in our economy. It is not going to stop me from talking about and continuing to promote the importance of a shared future. <BR /> <BR />The Member talks about the importance of protecting the Irish culture. I took the opportunity to invite some of the protestors who were at Parliament Buildings a couple of weeks ago to talk to me about teacher education and what was so important about it that they were trying to protect. I was quite shocked by some of the things that I heard.”
“That applies to both the Church of Ireland and Catholic Church ethos in teacher training in the Catholic maintained system. That begs this question: if something can be done successfully in Glasgow and Dublin, why is Northern Ireland insisting that it is so different?”
“<BR /> <BR />That is why it is important that we consider reform, in the context of which we can put in place a range of models that can ensure that we protect issues around ethos, including how we can train teachers for the Irish-medium sector. We have seen how reforms have taken place successfully in Glasgow, and more recently — from September — in Dublin. In the case of Dublin, we see a Catholic institution, with a history longer than St Mary's, and a Church of Ireland institution with a history longer than either, coming together with Dublin City University to create a new approach to teacher training in the city. That is happening with the support of the Catholic hierarchy, and issues around ethos can be accommodated within a shared and inclusive environment.”
“Let me be clear at the outset: there is no crusade against St Mary's University College, although, at times, if you listen to comments from the college and other political parties, there is perhaps a crusade against me in all of this. We have to recognise that the system we have at present is not working or delivering. It is very much an artificial system, where we subsidise our teacher training, whether through an artificial figure of teachers to be trained, the premia or the expansion into non-initial teacher education (ITE) subjects. We are doing more and more to prop up a system that is not sustainable in its own right.”
“We stand ready to go when the company deems it appropriate for us to do so.”
“Speaking for Arlene Foster and myself, we have had full cooperation from the company. It has been accessible to us and is acutely aware of the impact of the loss of jobs on the lives of individual workers, their families and the wider community. The company is more than happy to facilitate the work that we do as a Department, and also that of other agencies and the Northern Regional College's skills audit and retraining. It is important that Members bear in mind the key issue of the timing around when this will take place, because production is continuing in the factory and, if anything, will increase as it works towards the change in directives, so it is important that we do not interrupt the company's natural flow of business. At the same time, though, we can move quickly to intervene at the appropriate time.”
“We have had a number of discussions with the company and floated with it the potential of its making some contribution, in the event that a successful bid could be made. We have had discussions with the Commission about how best to make an application. I intend to take those forward further next week when I am in Brussels. We are not yet in the position whereby we would be expected to make any application. We have to wait until the job losses become a reality, which will not be until May 2016. However, if we feel that we have a reasonable prospect of a successful application, we will seek to proceed on a shadow basis and get a provisional indication of the likely success or otherwise of a bid so that we can process a bid very quickly when the timing allows us to make one, which is once the redundancies become a reality.”
“We then have to ensure that any bid that we make is approved and processed by the Department for Work and Pensions in London. As the Member will appreciate, it has to be channelled through the national member state, which, in our case, is obviously the UK. To that end, the UK Government have not previously supported any application to the fund. We also have to ensure that what we put in place in Northern Ireland is additional to our existing provision. We will have to make sure that we match fund the European globalisation fund from local resources or the company itself.”
“If the Member is asking me to be realistic, I would say that our prospects are narrow. Nonetheless, we will seek to explore all the options. It was interesting that, when the announcement of the redundancies was made last year, virtually every party, in some form or other, rushed to the media to say that the European globalisation fund will be the answer to our problems, without necessarily checking through the issues. We have to bear a few things in mind. One is that we have to ensure that the jobs actually qualify. If jobs in Ballymena are being relocated elsewhere within the European Union, those job losses will not count towards eligibility. It is jobs that are lost to outside the European Union that are eligible. On the other hand, we can also include the supply chain, so we may just make that threshold.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Department has a portfolio of services available to assist JTI Gallaher employees. The careers service and employment service offer advice and guidance. This includes the redundancy advice service, which, in partnership with other organisations, provides information and advice on available options and support. The Northern Regional College has liaised with JTI Gallaher on the help that it can provide. In addition to its ongoing programme, which is open to all, the college is offering a tailored approach of conducting skills audits of the workforce. This would help individuals to obtain relevant qualifications, either by accrediting their experience or providing the training necessary to gain relevant skills and qualifications.”
“Minister Foster and I have been working proactively with JTI Gallaher to discuss its plans and the needs of its workforce in an evolving situation. My officials are exploring the use of the European globalisation adjustment fund in these circumstances. This provides support to people losing their jobs as a result of major structural changes in world trade patterns due to globalisation — for example, when a large company shuts or production is moved outside the EU. The fund has strict eligibility criteria, and my officials are continuing to explore whether these would be met in this case. I plan to build on the work of my officials and to include this in discussions when I am in Brussels later this month for meetings with the European Commission.”
“We take ESOL and access to it very seriously. What is happening at Belfast Met is just the standardisation of the approach taken in the other five colleges. This will remain a feature of all our colleges. As we continue to attract skills and people from overseas to work and invest in our society, it is important that we continue to provide them with access to ESOL-type courses.”
“Nonetheless, it is a challenging situation.”
“I cannot give any assurances when dealing with cuts. They will have real impacts on front-line provision, and we will seek to mitigate those as far as we can. Nonetheless, there will be an impact on the front line. The scale of cuts that we are making means that that cannot be avoided. <BR /> <BR />All of that will have an impact to some extent on the economy in different parts of Northern Ireland and in our society as a whole. We have asked for protection for some areas: for example, what we are doing on apprenticeships and the new youth training system will be protected. We have also asked the universities and colleges to protect investment in STEM subjects, given their particular importance to the economy. <BR /> <BR />A strategic and planned approach is being adopted to how we find the savings.”
“They are an attractive and lucrative way of achieving third-level qualifications that will stand someone in very good stead in their career.”
“Our higher education institutions are entitled to charge a fee just short of £3,800. Our further education colleges are also providers of higher education. Two of the six colleges charge fees in the region of £2,500; the remaining four charge in the region of £1,500. So, across the sector — building on the point that I made to Mr Elliott — there is a view that those fees should be standardised at in the region of £2,500, which is still significantly less than tuition fees for a higher education qualification at a university. <BR /> <BR />Higher education within further education will still be an attractive option, in particular as foundation degree courses are designed with the needs of employers and the wider economy in mind.”
“I am pleased that across Colleges NI, principals and chairs of boards, there is a common understanding of the different means by which the effect of the cuts may be mitigated in a manner that reduces the impact on the front line as best as possible.”
“With respect to the Member, I need to be very careful about speculating about places and jobs and what happens in individual colleges. Each will be in a different financial situation. The effects of the cuts will work out differently in each of those areas. <BR /> <BR />Without doubt, we still face a significant situation. It is worth noting that this is, perhaps, the first time in living memory that we are about to rationalise access to further education, which, hitherto, has always been open to the public across the board. <BR /> <BR />There is a coordinated approach in the sector to how the cuts can be managed.”
“I am proposing a £12 million reduction for the further education sector, which may be partially mitigated by the proposed use of £6 million of end-year flexibility, subject to the agreement of the Executive. That is, in effect, the use of the reserves within the sector.”
“Although the final budget for my Department has somewhat improved since the draft Budget, with £20 million being restored from the initial cuts that were proposed, the Department still faces an unprecedented funding situation. That will impact across all areas of my Department's work, including further education. I have tried to protect front-line services, but there is no doubt that the cuts will have implications for staffing in the colleges and places in the colleges. Those are, however, matters for the colleges. <BR /> <BR />I met with the Employment and Learning Committee last week to apprise it of my thinking on the budget cuts, and I am in the process of finalising decisions.”
“So, there is a big debate there. The intention is, once we get Executive approval, which will hopefully be secured over the next few weeks, to go to the legislative draftspeople to get the clauses drafted. Those clauses will be included in the main employment Bill, which will hopefully be introduced to the Assembly before the summer recess.”
“I welcome the Member back to the Chamber with formal speaking rights. He would have picked up from the previous answers that we touched on the issue of zero-hours contracts. We are finalising proposals in the Department to take to the Executive. Also, the Committee is set to get a briefing on the issue either this week or next week. We are seeking to introduce some regulation in respect of zero-hours contracts, particularly around exclusivity and the conditions under which people would have the right to request or expect a different type of contractual situation. <BR /> <BR />The main issue around casualisation is the uncertainty around pay and the knock-on effects that that has for someone when it comes to planning family life, access to benefits or the ability to secure mortgages and other such financial instruments.”
“We have a situation where businesses can take on employees. We are seeing, for example, a change to a much more casual approach to employment, which recognises how labour markets are evolving. In many respects, that is a natural progression, but it is important that, as government, we keep up to date with the changes in practice, that we ensure that our regulation is balanced and proportionate and that we are mindful of the interests of employees and ensure that their rights are appropriately balanced and protected.”
“In particular, I highlight what we are trying to do about the routing of claims through the LRA and creating a much more holistic approach, based on the alternative dispute resolution techniques. Those things will put us at a considerable advantage compared with many of our neighbours. Unfair dismissal is a much more controversial issue, and the Member well knows that there is not an agreed approach on that issue within the structures of the Assembly.”
“First, it is important that we approach employment law with a perspective of balance, ensuring that we meet the needs of business and give it sufficient flexibility. However, we must also ensure that we are giving protection to workers and that our law is keeping up to date in that regard. That is why we are looking at zero-hours contracts; not to rule them out but to ensure that there is adequate protection in an emerging area in how we are dealing with employees. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we recognise that employment law is devolved in Northern Ireland. We are the only part of the UK where that is the case. It is important that we are competitive, but there are different ways to ensure that.”
“It is intended that a consultation on tribunal rules will be launched in early March 2015. It is my intention to secure Executive agreement to formally introduce the employment Bill to the Assembly before the summer recess.”
“<BR /> <BR />These include a new process of early conciliation to be delivered by the Labour Relations Agency; the drafting of appropriate enabling provisions that would allow for a neutral assessment service to be established; the conversion from confirmatory to affirmative procedure of the Department’s power to amend the qualifying period for the right to claim unfair dismissal; and adjustment from 90 days to 45 days of the period of consultation in collective redundancy situations involving 100 or more employees. <BR /> <BR />My Department has recently undertaken further policy reviews dealing with zero-hours contracts and the rules that govern the operation of employment tribunals. A paper on legislative proposals on regulating zero-hours contracts is being prepared for the Executive.”
“In September 2014, I provided the Employment and Learning Committee with an overview of the key policy proposals that have emerged from my Department’s consultation on a range of measures designed to improve the effectiveness of our current employment relations system. Following that engagement, I secured the Executive’s agreement for the drafting of an employment Bill that will give effect to the agreed policy proposals.”
“Very much so, and I welcome that engagement. I recently hosted a dinner for the incoming chief executives of the new super-councils and the chief executives of our local FE colleges. The FE colleges have a very important role in business support, particularly around matching skills with the emerging needs of the new council areas, which are taking on additional economic development powers. Between the informal structures that we have at present and what we can do more formally through the statutory agencies, there is a real desire to focus on local solutions for these problems, recognising that Northern Ireland does not necessarily suit a one-size-fits-all solution. I was particularly pleased that we had representatives from Lisburn City and Castlereagh District Council, who were very proactive in seeking out new opportunities.”
“The point is how we can look to do better in promotional work with SMEs to make them aware of the opportunities. It would be a much more efficient way, at times, for people to see the potential talent in communities than maybe some of the more traditional recruitment techniques. It may be viewed in the short run as a barrier or an inconvenience for businesses, but we have a message to communicate that this is something that is very much in the interests of businesses of all sizes but in particular SMEs.”
“The Member is right to stress the importance of evaluation and constant learning as we go. I am pleased to hear the very positive feedback received from Limavady. Some1,700 people came through the doors at an event in Craigavon last Thursday; those are considerable numbers. We can evaluate success through a number of different outcomes, one of which is the number of those who progress into work or into further training places. However, we can also get feedback from those who attend events as to whether they found them useful and that they were being matched with potential employers according to their interests. Again, that feedback tends to be very positive.”
“First of all, for the benefit of the press release for this week's 'County Down Spectator': yes, the Member did a good job in helping to organise the event. <BR /> <BR />The partnership between the community and voluntary sector and the local business community is very important. Those work most effectively when they are from the bottom up and respond to local demand. Where we can see clear evidence that there is a critical mass of people in the community sector or in local businesses who wish to take the opportunity, as a Department, we are more than happy to facilitate that.”