Stephen Farry
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Speaking for a party that has a longer pedigree in advocating a public inquiry than both the DUP and Sinn Féin, I nonetheless welcome this announcement, despite the torturous path that we have had and, indeed, the missed opportunities.”
“The first was a reform of the petition of concern to take it back to the original intent when it was designed in 1998. It was clear at that stage that Arlene Foster banged the table and said, "No, never. We are not doing that. That is a way whereby we are going to have to fold on equal marriage: it's not happening".”
“<BR /> <BR />The main points that I make concern the substance of the order. There are probably three aspects that the Minister needs to address properly before the Assembly, and they really relate to what other options he has.”
“That raises the question of why they want to go as far as 2022, especially when I am not sure — I would welcome any clarification to the contrary on it — that there has been formal Executive approval of this.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are three major substantive issues that I do not believe have been properly aired on this: VAT; European Commission infraction proceedings; and, most important, the opportunity foregone to revisit the classification of Northern Ireland Water and the ability, through a separate water charge, to allow it to borrow commerc…”
“While my party was supportive of the Good Friday Agreement back in 1998, at that time, we expressed some reservations around the very detailed nature of the proposals and how those could, in due course, destabilise Northern Ireland and prevent us from realising our full potential. We have been very much vindicated in that analysis.”
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“I am certainly keen to ensure that we develop the capacity around apprenticeships and vocational training not just in Antrim but in every quarter and corner of Northern Ireland. With reference to South Antrim, there is a critical mass of good employers who are interested in apprenticeships and are already engaged. However, there will be times when people move to other parts of Northern Ireland for work opportunities, and that also applies to apprenticeships. It is important that we encourage labour mobility and recognise that it is part and parcel of the modern world of work. That is matched, of course, by ensuring that we do what we can to invest in local capacity. I can certainly write to the Member and give him any information that we have on the inflow and outflow of apprentices.”
“Critically, for the first time in Northern Ireland, we are also looking to introduce a central service that will act as a brokerage for employers and potential young apprentices so that we can have a more efficient matching of supply and demand. A lot can be done outside the structures, whether by MLAs or other opinion formers, to highlight the importance of the apprenticeship pathway as a strong alternative to the more traditional academic pathways that people are perhaps more familiar with.”
“The Member is right that Northern Ireland is starting from a relatively small base on apprenticeships, which somewhat goes against what people view as the industrial heritage of Northern Ireland. However, the new strategy is set to change the landscape dramatically. Key interventions include a new advisory forum to look at the system as a whole that will include employers and other key stakeholders and a range of sectoral partnerships that will try to drive apprenticeships in particular sectors, including drawing attention to opportunities for employers. We are working on five potential new sectoral partnerships. Hopefully, there will be more announcements on that in the very near future.”
“It outlines a significant new approach to apprenticeships to be introduced in Northern Ireland between now and 2016. It will be central to transforming the skills landscape in Northern Ireland and securing our economic success. Evidence shows that apprenticeships provide an excellent means by which employers can obtain the skills they require, as well as being assured that there is a critical mass of people with strong technical and employability skills across the economy. Apprentices know that they are getting the skills that are required by employers and are relevant to the economy, both now and in the future.”
“The most recent published statistics show that, as of 30 April 2014, 481 employed apprentices in the South Antrim constituency are being funded through my Department's ApprenticeshipsNI programme to undertake the off-the-job training element of their apprenticeship. Of those, 250 are targeted to achieve level 2 qualifications, and 231 are targeted to achieve level 3 qualifications. Apprenticeship qualifications are outlined in apprenticeship frameworks for each occupational area. The age distribution is as follows: 192 are between 16 and 19 years old; 222 are between 20 and 24 years old; and 67 are aged 25 or older. The Member will be aware that I published a new strategy for apprenticeships, 'Securing our Success', in June 2014.”
“I go back to what I said. If there are any inequalities in the system, I am committed to driving them out. A range of support already exists, and our colleges are bound to abide by equality legislation in all its forms. If something is not quite right, I am happy to look at that on the Member's behalf, and it will be remedied.”
“That depends on the particular circumstances that prevail. We had a useful debate this morning on student finance, and we have stressed that, in a large number of situations, there is access to support through disability student allowances as well as access to the additional support funds that allow a lot of mechanisms to be introduced to help students with a range of disabilities. It depends on the individual circumstances and cases that arise.”
“Around the world, we see a pattern that apprenticeships are more readily provided through larger companies and less so through SMEs. Even in countries such as Switzerland or Germany, that is the case. It is important that government seeks to put incentives and assistance in place, as far as we can, to try to break the barrier that discourages SMEs from engaging. Some of the issues that the Member touches on beyond insurance are the type of issues that we will explore through that mechanism.”
“I suspect that the issue that Dr McDonnell raises is more of an issue around work placements, where the person in question is not the employee of the company as such. In an apprenticeship, the apprentice is an employee of the sponsoring company and would be covered by the existing insurance policies that the company has. <BR /> <BR />In a wider sense, it is also worth highlighting that we are developing a central service, which, again, is a new departure for Northern Ireland. That will be run by my Department and will work with employers directly in advertising vacancies to a portal that will encourage young people to apply for apprenticeships and deal with a lot of the bureaucracy. <BR /> <BR />One issue that we are trying to address is the barriers that SMEs experience around apprenticeships.”
“That is strongly supported by my Department's Assured Skills programme, whereby we can give guarantees to investing companies that they will have the skills base locally to take up the jobs that they create. <BR /> <BR />We are being successful in creating jobs locally, and, while outward migration is still, sadly, a factor for Northern Ireland, I expect that it will decrease over coming years. Also, a number of people who have left Northern Ireland may seek to return, given the job opportunities that are now being created.”
“The timescale for the full implemention of the new strategy is September 2016, so, to give the Member a very direct answer, that is the timescale. Between now and then, a lot of work will take place around the implementation of the strategy. Already, we have had pilots of higher-level apprenticeships, and we are working to create the first of our sectoral partnerships, which gives employers a direct voice. <BR /> <BR />I also stress to the Member that a lot of work is being done to create jobs in Northern Ireland both by local companies and through attracting inward investment. The Member will be aware that Invest NI has had a very successful year; indeed, its most successful year ever.”
“It is not the way that any mature Government goes about its business.”
“We have explained to the Committee how we have approached the situation in-year. Our books are balanced, so far as the 4·5% that has been announced so far is concerned. What we do beyond that has still to be determined. We have some options in that regard. While I have sought to act strategically and to protect those who are most vulnerable, when we are in a situation where we face cuts in excess of 10% or 15%, all bets are off, and it becomes next to impossible to give any guarantees of protecting any particular area of activity in the Department. If we were to try to do that, we would massively skew commitments elsewhere. The only thing I can say to the Member is that going down this route is really not sustainable. We cannot simply keep cutting and cutting budgets in order to put off taking a difficult decision.”
“That is an inequity, and it becomes doubly so when you consider the different socio-economic backgrounds of the two cohorts that we are talking about.”
“The current speculation is that, next year, there will be cuts well in excess of 10% and that that will continue into future years. That will have a massive impact, right across the board, on what my Department does. <BR /> <BR />More immediately, I make the point that, while I am nonetheless seeking to act strategically and to protect the most vulnerable in society from the cuts, we have a certain inequity in the approach that has been taken to date with the protection given to the Department of Education. That means that the 16- to 19-year-olds who are in school will benefit from that protection, whereas the 40% of 16- to 19-year-olds who are in further education and training are not given protection. The fact that we have sought to protect them is due to our own actions, not the strategic decisions taken by the Executive.”
“I am glad that the Member stressed the words "could have". At this stage, the current budget uncertainty has not impacted on that particular intervention around FE awards and hardship funds. There has been a little bit of confusion around the fact that we have identified underspends in student finance as one of the areas through which we are seeking to manage the current in-year pressures. That is a reflection of the fact that we have to set a budget allocation based on an estimate of demand, and our projection is that demand will come in below the budget, allowing us to have what is, in effect, a reduced requirement that can be moved elsewhere within the system. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware that we are looking at cuts of 4·5%-plus on an in-year situation.”
“Through what we are doing in careers, apprenticeships and investing in further education and higher education, we are trying to drive that situation out of our economy. We all stand to benefit if we get it right.”
“Overall, it is clear that we will have a much higher demand for higher-level skills over the coming years and, in particular, in STEM subjects. Even within higher-level skills, there can sometimes be a skills mismatch, and that is why it is important that we have proper careers advice and encourage people to take up opportunities in some of the high-growth sectors in the economy. The Member is quite right: when that goes wrong, we have a situation of underemployment, in terms of either the number of hours that people work or the areas in which they are employed, where they are overqualified. That can have knock-on consequences elsewhere, in displacing other people's opportunities.”
“Absolutely. As Minister for Employment and Learning, my overriding objective is to ensure that we have proper efficiency of supply and demand in the labour market and that we address our skills needs.”
“We are keen to ensure that there is a more even geographical drawdown of funds and that we have better engagement with local communities, particularly through the new council structure, to work with us around the various proposals that will come forward. Hopefully, the Member will see the fruits of that over the coming months.”
“We have a number of different interventions. First, we have the excellent resource of the South West College. As the Member knows, our further education system in Northern Ireland is recognised as being the best in these islands and, within that, the South West College has been recognised as being one of the very best colleges in these islands. Therefore, that is a very good resource to draw on. We also have the local jobs and benefits offices and the Careers Service, all of which are vehicles to engage with the local community. <BR /> <BR />The Member will also be aware that we officially launched the next tranche of the European social fund in the past week.”
“I am happy to assure the Member that she will be provided with a full answer. Obviously, the college is responsible for the courses that it provides and how it manages its budget. It is only speculation on my part, but, given the time of year, it may be based on the enrolment figures.”
“The Member is probably aware that we are in the process of doing a major review of youth training, which is very much geared around those young people who would be leaving school at the age of 16 or 17 and who have the potential to engage in the world of work. An expert panel from a range of stakeholders is in place to advise us on the development of the strategy. It is envisaged that there will be two different strands — an employed strand through what you could term a traineeship and an unemployed strand that is, nevertheless, still linked to work placements. That builds on the comments that I made to Mr Easton earlier. We hope to have a draft consultation paper ready within the next few weeks and to go out to public consultation towards the end of the autumn with a view to having agreement on a new strategy in the spring of 2015.”
“The situation around youth unemployment no doubt causes young people to reflect upon their future opportunities. The statistics collected do not fully capture the internal and external movements of young people. Figures produced by the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency give an indication around long-term migration flows. In 2012-13, 7,700 18- to 24-year-olds left Northern Ireland and 5,900 came in — a net outward migration of 1,800 or 1% of that age group. In 2000-01 when youth unemployment was much lower, 5,700 18- to 24-year-olds left Northern Ireland and 4,000 came in — a net outward migration of 1,700 individuals or, again, around 1% of that age group.”
“Youth unemployment remains a major challenge in Northern Ireland, in common with other parts of these islands and elsewhere in Europe. Almost one third of those who are unemployed fall within the 18- to 24-year-old age group. The challenge is being proactively addressed by my Department and the wider Executive. Responses include the youth employment scheme and the Pathways to Success strategy. Wider reforms including the review of careers, the new strategy on apprenticeships and the forthcoming new youth training system will all help to reduce the incidences of youth unemployment in the future.”
“I think that it is important that everyone works constructively so that we can achieve that. If everyone shares the ambition around those principles and a desire to see a world-class system, we will find an answer.”
“I would say two things to the Member. First, on the point about fixed viewpoints, his party, through my predecessor Mr Kennedy, issued a consultation document before the last Assembly election that quite clearly endorsed a merger between Queen's University and Stranmillis as the way forward. That was a fixed view, and it is down on paper as part of the formal record. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, in response to Mr Attwood, I set out the three broad principles that will guide the approach that I am taking forward in this regard, and I have said that a range of different institutional formats could fall within the parameters of those three guiding principles. I do not see the potential for any outcome emerging, that will find favour across the board and with my personal opinion, being difficult to establish.”
“We also have to ensure that we have a financially sustainable system. Those are the key principles as we move forward. <BR /> <BR />While Mr Attwood may wish to ascribe certain ambitions, or perspectives, behind the approach of Queen's University, let me be very clear that the three principles I have outlined are the basis of my approach to the issue. It is about ensuring that we have a world-class system of teacher education in Northern Ireland — nothing more and nothing less. <BR /> <BR />With respect to Stranmillis, we will obviously wish to take the views of staff on board, but, constitutionally, the Department deals with the board of governors. The board and its chair are appointed by me, and we will officially receive the views of the college directly from them.”
“There were quite a lot of issues in the question, which I will try to work through as best I can. As to my view of the way forward, I am not sure that it would be terribly productive for me to stake a claim and say that this is the way forward and the only way forward. It is important that we have a proper discussion amongst all the providers. I have made clear the direction of travel that I want to see in that regard, but it is important to recognise that a variety of different institutional formats could fall within those parameters. <BR /> <BR />The only thing that I would say is that the status quo is not sustainable. We need to encourage more sharing and integration in teacher education. We also have to ensure that it is of world-class standard and, in particular, that it has greater interaction with research excellence.”
“No further pieces of work are excluded from current discussions. The panel has formally discharged its commitment to the Department and, indeed, has given evidence to the Employment and Learning Committee in recent days. What the Member set out can take place at any stage and, indeed, could have taken place at any stage in the past. There is no doubt that there will be issues that we will wish to reflect on when considering any potential for progress.”
“Obviously, the Member and others in the House, perhaps even including me, will have more ambitious views on how we can take forward reform, but, at this stage, I will say that all the institutions are willing to engage in further discussions with me and the Department.”
“I am still considering the best way forward, and we are not taking any fixed approach. At present, we are working through bilateral discussions with the institutions. I can say that I have had some very constructive discussions with St Mary's in the past week, and we have made a commitment to have further discussions. While the Member is correct to report that St Mary's does not favour any of the four options on the table, it is nonetheless willing to consider what is the best way forward for the institution and, indeed, the system. It is fair to say that St Mary's itself recognises that the status quo is not an option.”
“However, I remind Members that both the international panel and the stage one report on the cost of teacher education training and the financial sustainability of the university colleges agree that the status quo is not an option because of the quality of initial teacher education provided and financial reasons. My main aim in the process continues to be how we can best structure a system that can deliver world-class standards of teacher education, is financially sustainable, promotes greater sharing and integration, and is in the best interests of our young people.”
“Rather, they serve as a very useful guide, shaping discussions as we go forward. <BR /> <BR />In my statement, I asked the sector to use the summer months to consider the content of the report and the options. I also committed to engaging with the initial teacher education sector in the autumn to discuss the review panel's report. As a first step, earlier this month, I met the four initial teacher education providers — Queen's, Stranmillis, St Mary's and the University of Ulster — to hear each institution's views and discuss how best to find a way forward. The meetings have been constructive, and engagement will continue as we consider how best to align the views put forward by each of the institutions with the options suggested by the panel.”
“With your permission, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I will group questions 6 and 15. I wish to request an additional minute for the answer. <BR /> <BR />Members are aware from my statement of 1 July that the international panel completed its review and delivered its report 'Aspiring to Excellence' on the initial teacher education infrastructure in Northern Ireland. The report has proposed four options for future structures: a collaborative partnership; a two-centre model with a Belfast institute of education and the second centre based in the north-west; a Northern Ireland teacher education federation; and a Northern Ireland institute of education. I do not regard those options as being mutually exclusive or as the totality of the range of possibilities before us.”
“We can take some encouragement from the experience with the youth employment scheme, where a considerable number of employers came forward. That was largely driven by very good, proactive engagement with employers directly and the various business organisations. It is also important to get the message out that employers want to have surety that they will have a strong pipeline of young people coming through, and the only way in which they can ensure that they have the right technical skills and the employability skills is to offer work placements to young people so that they can begin the task of investing in those skills. I am pleased to say that more and more employers are recognising that.”
“First, I stress that any contracts that Charter NI provides on behalf of the Department and with public money are open to all sections of the community. It is important that that is made extremely clear. The Member may be conscious of particular issues for one section of the community, but it is important that we have a neutral approach in the provision of resources. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right to stress the importance of engaging with employers to source placements. This is an ongoing challenge and one that we have experienced with the current Training for Success programme and other schemes that we have been working with.”
“In particular, learners benefit from experience of the work environment to complement their studies. It is also a very effective way for learners to acquire the all-important employability skills required by employers. <BR /> <BR />My Department’s reviews of further education and youth training are considering how work placements can be included in the most effective way in individual students' programmes of learning. The youth employment scheme is a voluntary scheme designed to help young people to develop the skills needed to get a job. It also recognises that employability skills are more readily obtained by active participation in a work setting with an employer or a voluntary organisation.”
“According to the college, 1,141 students and trainees participated in work placements in the 2013-14 academic year as part of their programme of learning. In addition, the college has extremely good working relationships with employers in its area and engages with over 5,000 employers to obtain relevant work placements as close to students' homes as possible. The process of obtaining, monitoring and evaluating work placements takes significant effort from the college but is a key element of the student experience and an integral part of their study. <BR /> <BR />I can also advise that the college has developed bespoke software called business engagement and student tracking to monitor placements. Research emphasises the importance of work placements.”
“I have not had the opportunity to have any discussions in the past week or so since the referendum. However, the situation remains largely unchanged on the back of the outcome. The Member will be aware of the fees that students from here are charged. There was a lot of speculation before the referendum about what would be the situation in the event that Scotland opted for independence. In that context, all the legal advice, and the Scottish Government's advice, was that students from Northern Ireland or anywhere else in the European Union would have to be treated the same as Scottish students.”
“Most of the courses available in the Republic of Ireland are offered in Northern Ireland. There are a very small number of exceptions. Veterinary science is one example, and there are also opportunities in Great Britain, notably Scotland, in that regard. It is important that, first, we signpost people so that they are aware of the opportunities. The number of students from Northern Ireland going to the South is remarkably small, given that we share an island, and has been quite small for the last number of years. There is a greater flow of students northwards. The issue that we have is multifaceted but considerably unbalanced. A lot of work has to be done to redress the balance so that we have a natural flow, based on informed choice, in both directions on the island.”
“So it is important that we do not just see mobility on the island as just a cross-border issue; it may well be about ensuring choice right across the island and, indeed, these islands.”
“It is important that we look at mobility in a range of ways. As the Member says, we have mobility within Northern Ireland, but some students may wish to study in Great Britain, and others may wish to study in the Republic of Ireland. It is not only geographical proximity that will influence decisions but the availability of courses. While I want a very broad range of courses to be provided in Northern Ireland, there may be areas in which certain specialisms are more effectively taught elsewhere in these islands — I stress that in the broadest sense — and it is important that we facilitate mobility. It is also the case that, when we have to invest in specialist equipment or specialist teaching, neither jurisdiction on the island has the resources to invest in that alone, so there may be opportunities for joint initiatives.”
“I am not sure what the weather is like in Fermanagh, but, in my mind, the autumn extends to the end of November at least, so there is still time for the report to come through. As I have said on a number of occasions, there is no lack of willingness in this jurisdiction in the Department of Education or my Department to address the issues and the barriers to student flows on the island of Ireland. Most of the obstacles lie in the policies and practices of the Government in the Irish Republic, and at times we have to question their willingness to be proactive in addressing some of these points. If the Member has any influence, I encourage him to use it, alongside the influence of others, to see how we can address the issues.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Department of Education is in the lead regarding A-level and leaving certificate equivalences. However, a number of individual universities have introduced interim measures to attract students from here. My officials are working with officials in the Department of Education and Skills to research and analyse cross-border student flows. A joint report that will inform policy development is scheduled for completion in the autumn. <BR /> <BR />I met Minister Quinn of the Department in April 2014 to discuss matters of mutual interest. I have also written to his successor, Minister Jan O’Sullivan, and will discuss matters with her at the North/South Ministerial Council meeting this Friday.”
“In implementing Graduating to Success, my Department has established a project group to facilitate cross-border cooperation and student mobility. A key part of that project is addressing the relevant recommendations from the Irish Business and Employers Confederation and the CBI joint business council study of obstacles to cross-border undergraduate education. In particular, my Department’s Careers Service continues to build the knowledge of its advisers to ensure that students are fully informed about opportunities in the UK and the Republic of Ireland. An anomaly on student finance has been resolved, and, since 2013, students from Northern Ireland studying in the Republic of Ireland have had access to a repayable student contribution loan and other financial support.”
“Maybe I will ask the Member to give us a guarantee that her party will see sense on Budget issues and ensure that we have sustainable finances in Northern Ireland. In that, we will have the answer to her question.”
“We will end up building colleges of a world-class standard but without the resource to equip them properly or to ensure that we invest in the students who will take advantage of them.”
“Some degree of assurance can be given, in that this is a capital programme. Indeed, the first tranche of money has been secured as part of the Together: Building a United Community funding programme. That gives a degree of certainty in relation to this. There will be a need for further capital bids to be made around the balance of money required to make this happen. <BR /> <BR />At present, most of the pressures in the budgets are in the revenue area. The Member is right to express alarm: what is already a difficult situation is set to deteriorate rapidly over coming years. I see a difficulty arising if we end up having to make cuts in the further education sector.”
“The Member will appreciate that the discussions have been at a strategic level, given that the locations for the new leisure facilities and the college campus have yet to be identified. <BR /> <BR />I fully recognise the mutual benefits that can be obtained from the use of shared services. My Department’s successful capital bid to the Together: Building a United Community programme to fund the Craigavon campus project demonstrates the focus on integration across the further education estate. At a time of increased pressures on funding, there is a heightened awareness of and attention on the importance of maximising the use of resources through developing shared facilities.”