Stephen Farry
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Speaking for a party that has a longer pedigree in advocating a public inquiry than both the DUP and Sinn Féin, I nonetheless welcome this announcement, despite the torturous path that we have had and, indeed, the missed opportunities.”
“The first was a reform of the petition of concern to take it back to the original intent when it was designed in 1998. It was clear at that stage that Arlene Foster banged the table and said, "No, never. We are not doing that. That is a way whereby we are going to have to fold on equal marriage: it's not happening".”
“<BR /> <BR />The main points that I make concern the substance of the order. There are probably three aspects that the Minister needs to address properly before the Assembly, and they really relate to what other options he has.”
“That raises the question of why they want to go as far as 2022, especially when I am not sure — I would welcome any clarification to the contrary on it — that there has been formal Executive approval of this.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are three major substantive issues that I do not believe have been properly aired on this: VAT; European Commission infraction proceedings; and, most important, the opportunity foregone to revisit the classification of Northern Ireland Water and the ability, through a separate water charge, to allow it to borrow commerc…”
“While my party was supportive of the Good Friday Agreement back in 1998, at that time, we expressed some reservations around the very detailed nature of the proposals and how those could, in due course, destabilise Northern Ireland and prevent us from realising our full potential. We have been very much vindicated in that analysis.”
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“It is a very cunning approach that he is adopting to it all. <BR /> <BR />A number of cases in this regard have been brought to my attention. The particular issue that is arising here is around an issue of double-funding, where, because we have a limited amount of money available for investment in higher education, our preference is to invest for one time in the students accessing higher education. Sometimes that may well be a year for somebody, which then leaves them in eligibility for two or three years, depending upon the nature of the course that they are applying to next. However, sometimes people, where they have done a previous higher education qualification, do not understand why they are not getting full access to funding for the full duration of another higher education course.”
“At the risk of being contradicted by the Member in a few minutes' time, I will say that we work very closely with the education and library boards in that regard. That is not to say that work cannot be done to make guidance and forms simpler. We are certainly happy to take representations on how things could be done better, which, I suspect, the Member is about to make.”
“That is an indication that our economy is moving in the right direction.”
“It is probably not within my powers; indeed, it is not within the powers of the Assembly. We may have a discussion in the coming months, depending on what happens on Thursday around the further devolution of powers, or not as the case might be. That may well be something that will enter into that debate. Before we legislate, we need to be fully alert to the full economic picture. I have outlined some of my concerns to the Member. Short of legislation, we can encourage employers to invest in the payment of their workers. There can be benefits to the economy where that is done in a sustainable way. The Member should take some comfort from the fact that, when you look at a lot of the jobs that we have created and announced in the past months, you will see that, increasingly, they are paying higher and higher salary levels.”
“If we were to shift the goalposts in that regard, a lot of employers would be more reluctant to take a chance on taking on an extra person and addressing our situation with unemployment, where we are making some very, very good progress at the moment. While I have sympathy with the concept, I think it is something that is best approached voluntarily. If we want to go down the line of compulsion, we need to be very alert to the unintended consequences.”
“However, if you end up setting a threshold of wages that is way in excess of what is viewed as being the natural market rate, there may be a danger of unemployment or, indeed, an increase in the prices that a shop or business will charge for their goods, facilities and services, and that will have a knock-on consequence elsewhere in the economy. <BR /> <BR />We also have a number of employment programmes in which we are trying to get people out of unemployment and into work. We often offer subsidies to employers to take people on. For small businesses in particular, those are decisions that are made on the margins.”
“It is important that we approach the issue of the living wage with a degree of caution. I encourage employers to consider the living wage. It is important that people are paid well. I think that we need to be slightly cautious about where we would go for a degree of compulsion for employers to pay a living wage. The first thing that we have to do is recognise that the best way of driving up wages in society is through investment in skills. On the back of that, we would have a productivity gain, and, arising from that, you would have a natural rise in wages. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, we have the national minimum wage, which is guided by the Low Pay Commission. I believe that there is a case for an increase in that.”
“My understanding is that the customers were extremely pleased with the quality of workmanship in that regard. It has placed Harland and Wolff in a good place for future work.”
“I absolutely concur with that. The Member is aware that there are some advertisements appearing already for a project that Harland and Wolff is conducting at this time, so there is real-life evidence in that regard. That has come perhaps a bit too quickly to allow people going through the academy to avail of those opportunities but, through discussions between my officials and Harland and Wolff, we are very encouraged by the long-term prospects in this area. <BR /> <BR />The Member is familiar with the fact that an oil rig was in during the first half of this year.”
“I thank the Member for his interest in the issue. Alongside my colleague Chris Lyttle, the Member has been very vocal in encouraging the Department to go down this route. We have responded to concerns to ensure we are facilitating opportunities at a much greater level for people who have some welding skills but have not been able to access employment in recent times due to the need for very specialist qualifications. The advertisement for the first cohort of people going through that has now closed and selections are underway. I hope that the course will be completed within, perhaps, a six-to-eight week window and that people graduating from that will then be eligible to work on projects coming through Harland and Wolff.”
“This is being driven to provide a real-time experience for students, in terms of the whole range of skills involved in the performing arts, whether they are onstage or backstage activities, and the various digital and media support. That full range of activities is going to be provided, and we want to have a world-class facility to enable students to learn in that type of environment. The local community will benefit from that.”
“Sustainability will depend on resource funding coming through my Department. Obviously, that will be under increased pressure over the coming years. That said, this is the new investment and we want to make sure that it is a success. <BR /> <BR />We encourage the college to make as much public use of the facility as it can and, in doing so, the facility can become a theatre and a performing arts space for the wider community in Bangor and elsewhere in north Down. <BR /> <BR />I can certainly assure the Member that what is being constructed is a full spec theatre. It will have all the facilities that one would expect to see in that type of environment.”
“Yes, I am happy to do that. Good progress is being made and, with luck and no unexpected delays emerging over the coming months, we look forward to construction being completed by next summer. Hopefully, the facility will be open and available in the autumn of 2015 to students and, crucially, to the public for the performing arts.”
“We decided, back in 2011, when we last looked at issues around higher education funding, that it would be unfair to provide a higher tuition fee loan to Northern Ireland domiciled students attending alternative providers than to those attending our own public providers in Northern Ireland, especially when we are asking those local providers to find efficiency savings. That was a collective decision taken by the Executive. So there is a balance to the argument, but I can certainly confirm to the Member that we are giving it full consideration and are open to a change in policy.”
“It is difficult to make exceptions. Every case could make that argument, and we have to make decisions that are based on an agreed policy. The case that the Member has outlined is not unusual, and we receive correspondence from a number of MLAs and, indeed, directly from students about similar situations. That is why we are considering the issue as part of the current review of higher education funding. However, whether we are going to be able to close that gap remains to be seen, as it will be dependent on resources.”
“We are working within a context of constrained public resources, and a major challenge during the review will be to decide where our funding priorities should for student support. A public consultation on the review will commence towards the end of the year.”
“Local students who attend a designated course that is owned by a recognised UK degree-awarding body but delivered by an alternative provider are entitled to a maximum tuition fee loan of up to £9,000. Local students who attend a designated course that is owned and delivered by an alternative provider and simply validated by a recognised UK degree-awarding body are entitled to a lower rate of tuition fee loan of £3,685. That aligns with the maximum loan that is available to students who study in Northern Ireland. It is not uncommon, however, for providers to charge over and above that amount. <BR /> <BR />The current student support package available to local students, including those who attend alternative providers, is being considered as part of my Department’s review of higher education funding.”
“At present, the level of tuition fee loan available for local students who wish to attend courses in non-publicly funded higher education institutions, or alternative providers, is dependent on both the location of the provider and the nature of the course. Following the Executive’s decision to freeze tuition fee levels here, I have ensured that all local students attending higher education providers in Northern Ireland, whether they are publicly funded or not, are eligible to the same maximum tuition fee loan of £3,685. Alternative providers are not, however, subject to fee caps and may charge more than that amount. <BR /> <BR />When the alternative provider is based elsewhere in the UK, the level of loan available is dependent on the nature of the course.”
“The university should be encouraged to continue and widen its efforts in that regard, particularly as it moves towards the completion of the site in 2018, the successful opening, and commencement of studies in the area.”
“Yes, I am very happy to follow the approach suggested by the Member and to encourage the university to deepen its existing efforts. We want to avoid a situation in which we build a university in Belfast — in north Belfast in particular — but it is detached from the community. Looking elsewhere in these islands and, indeed, internationally, we can see examples of universities that are in cities but that are detached from those cities and much better examples of such universities that are very much integrated into local communities. We obviously want to see the latter happen in Belfast. More work can be done to ensure that that becomes a reality. <BR /> <BR />A few weeks ago, I met a delegation of traders from the Antrim Road and the wider vicinity. They made a number of useful points that we are reflecting on.”
“That is part and parcel of the local responsibilities that MLAs and councillors have.”
“As I said in answer to the main question, a number of areas will be retained on the site. However, to be fair, the vast majority of the site is being relocated to Belfast. That will have implications for the east Antrim area, north Belfast and the wider city. There is obviously a wider issue, which the Member will be familiar with, on the future of the site as a whole, which is very large. No doubt he and his colleagues will want to make representations in that regard.”
“However, we will reflect on what the Member said about the future use of the Jordanstown campus. Indeed, I will encourage the university to do so as well.”
“I am happy to reflect on the comments made and to pass them on to the university for it to consider directly. As for jobs, this is not a reduction in provision; it is a relocation of the vast majority of the Jordanstown campus to Belfast. It is an investment for the future. That said, universities are obviously in a very difficult situation at present. A wider funding challenge predates the current Budget situation facing the Executive, and this year I have had to pass on to the universities cuts approaching 4%. That will be for them to manage, and they will be under a degree of pressure in maintaining existing services. It goes without saying that, when we are talking about cuts of that magnitude, there will be pressures on employment. People need to be very alert to that.”
“The demolition phase was completed on schedule, and the physical structure of the new university buildings is beginning to emerge. The university is finalising the procurement process to appoint a contractor to construct the main campus building. The university is engaging with the local community in the vicinity of the new campus to ensure that it is involved in a meaningful way, so that the new campus will provide tangible benefits for the local area. The Department is working closely with all stakeholders through inclusive implementation structures to ensure a coordinated approach to the relocation and to maximise the opportunities arising from the development.”
“The relocation from Jordanstown to Belfast will see the vast majority of activities transferred to Belfast by 2018. The exceptions will be student residences, the high-performance sports centre and the fire safety engineering facility. The development in Belfast will cost £250 million. My Department is providing £16 million, while the university has secured a £150 million loan from the European Investment Bank as well as a financial transaction capital loan of £35 million. The remaining funding is being raised by the university from a variety of sources. <BR /> <BR />Good progress is being made with the development across many fronts, and the university remains confident that the project will be delivered on time and within budget.”
“I thank the Member for the question. Again, if he refers to the apprenticeship strategy, he will see that quality assurance is absolutely fundamental to the approach that we are taking. That applies particularly to the qualifications network and the off-the-job training that is provided. I am very sensitive about not chasing numbers or trying to label something as an apprenticeship for the sake of it. This has to be driven by quality. Young people and businesses need to respond based on quality and have the assurance that they are investing in something credible. There are no shortcuts. We have to ensure that we can stand over what we are investing in and that people can have confidence in it.”
“We will seek to act responsibly in that regard. <BR /> <BR />What I do fear is that, particularly as Northern Ireland emerges from a very deep recession and when we have a lot of international goodwill, the potential to bring inward investment into Northern Ireland and the potential to grow jobs locally, due to cuts to key economic drivers, whether they be in my Department or elsewhere, we will simply fail to capitalise on those opportunities. There is a real danger here that we will collectively shoot ourselves in the foot and miss the absolutely open goal that is there for us with regard to future investment and job creation.”
“I will certainly say to the Member that I have considerable concerns about funding. There are a number of pressures out there, of which the failure to date to come to terms with welfare reform is the major one. That will have implications for what we are doing with regard to skills. <BR />As the House knows, investment in skills is perhaps the key economic driver in the transformation of the economy in Northern Ireland. To date, we have sought to act in a strategic way and to avoid hitting areas that are of crucial importance to the transformation of the economy, such as apprenticeships. We also have support from the European social fund in that regard. How long we can sustain that, particularly in the context where the cuts become even deeper, whether that happens this year or in subsequent years, remains to be seen.”
“I think that that will be a very lucrative route in future months.”
“Yes. We are very keen to work with employers right across Northern Ireland, including in the north-west. Indeed, there may well be potential for things to happen on a subregional basis. Discussions have been taking place with a number of employers in the north-west. We are not at the stage yet to publicise that, but the Member will indeed know who the main players in the local economy are. It is also important to bear in mind that, given the profile of employment in places such as Derry, we seek to develop the public sector as a means of apprenticeships. There will be areas of public sector employment that are highly relevant to that type of training. We are seeing that through a number of organisations where technical skills are relevant that have expressed interest and had discussions with my officials.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the very encouraging things that we have seen, even in response to the fact that we were discussing a new strategy on apprenticeships, is that a lot of businesses and colleges have begun to vote with their feet and come up with new and innovative ideas. Indeed, our strategy has actually been moving to catch up with what has been happening on the ground. I believe that Northern Ireland has a very promising future with regard to apprenticeships. They will become a very effective means of ensuring that employers are getting the right people for their organisations in the future. Indeed, young people will be skilled in areas that are highly relevant to the modern economy and will have much better prospects of securing and sustaining jobs.”
“I thank the Member for her questions. As the House will know, we released Securing our Success, our new apprenticeships strategy for Northern Ireland, in June 2014. It is certainly not sitting on a shelf — if anything, it is very much the opposite. A lot of work has been conducted already. We are working through our implementation plan. Over the coming weeks, I will chair meetings with employers with a view to establishing sectoral partnerships. That is a key means of ensuring that we have buy-in from stakeholders in particular industries. Those groups will be used to effectively plan the roll-out of apprenticeships in some current areas and indeed some new areas.”
“In June, alongside the Regional Development Minister, Danny Kennedy, I announced a higher-level apprenticeship for around 10 apprentices in civil engineering. Proposals from the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service, the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service and the Police Service of Northern Ireland are also anticipated. <BR /> <BR />We know that the demand for skills at levels 3 to 8 — that is, A level to doctorate — is set to increase significantly. My vision is that, through the apprenticeship strategy, higher-level apprenticeships will play a major role in meeting that demand.”
“In finance and accounting, recruitment is currently under way, with expressions of interest received from a range of accountancy employers, including FPM Accountants, ASM Horwath and BHP Accountants Ltd. The training will be provided by Belfast Metropolitan College and the Southern Regional College. In industrial, chemical and life sciences, recruitment is currently under way through Norbrook Laboratories, with training of around 14 apprentices through the Southern Regional College. Those are but a few examples, with further pilots planned in engineering and aeronautical engineering with major employers, including Bombardier. <BR /> <BR />A further exciting development that I have promoted is the extension of higher-level apprenticeships to the public sector.”
“I have been actively encouraging and facilitating the development of higher-level apprenticeships. Higher-level apprenticeships enable young people to benefit from working with important employers in Northern Ireland, as well as to gain a recognised qualification at level 4 or above. <BR /> <BR />I am currently supporting a number of pilots. For example, in ICT, we have 15 apprentices employed by the McAvoy Group, Allstate and Core Systems who are undertaking training at South West College. In engineering, 15 apprentices working with Terex, Kiverco and the Quinn Group are undertaking training at South West College as well. PricewaterhouseCoopers has employed 18 apprentices in professional services, 14 in taxation and four in audit.”
“So, that is something that I think we all have to reflect on when considering the future of our budgets to ensure that money is well spent and that we take equality considerations into account.”
“That is not a plea from me that my Department should be protected as well; it is rather that I think that we have to reflect on the fact that, when decisions like that are taken, certain inequities will be created in the system. A particular inequity relates to what happens for those young people aged between 16 and 19. Those young people who are at school will benefit from protection, but those who are in further education or training programmes will not. We have to be conscious that some 40% of young people aged between 16 and 19 are in education and training outside of the school sector and that the socio-economic background of that cohort is different to that of the population as a whole.”
“I can certainly give the Member an assurance that I am very keen to progress a wide range of capital projects, including in further education. I certainly believe that a modern FE estate is entitled to an assurance that we are investing in the skills agenda. As I am sure the Member will agree, the FE sector is incredibly flexible and diverse and covers a wide range of interventions, from essential skills to the provision of higher education. <BR /> <BR />That said, I have to put on record my concern about the current funding decisions that are being taken. While vocational education is incredibly important to our economy, the Department of Education's budget has been given protection by the Executive but that of my Department has not.”
“Obviously, the more that the site can be used the better it will be for building up different types of relationships. Not every two particular agencies will have a natural partnership, but there will be enough to make the site viable. In turn, that will have further multiplier effects on the local economy, particularly the service sector, given the number of the people who will be working in that vicinity. So, there will be a wider benefit for the town of Enniskillen as well.”
“I think that the Member can take considerable consolation in that there is a lot of interest in this particular site across a number of Departments and Ministers. Indeed, the First Minister and the deputy First Minister visited the location a number of months ago, which is an indication of the collective interest that there is in this regard.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am optimistic that it will go ahead. I appreciate that it has perhaps taken a little longer to come to fruition than had originally been planned. I think that that reflects the complexity of the outgoing site and its former use. That has brought some challenges with respect to demolition and the environmental aspects around all that. <BR /> <BR />I expect to be in a position to receive and clear a business case during 2015. While there are other projects in terms of the FE estate that we are keen to advance, I am certainly minded to make a bid to the Executive for this particular project. I appreciate that the shared services site in particular provides potential for synergies across the public sector, so there is a strong case for this proposal.”
“No funding commitment can be made until the business case has been approved by me and by the Department of Finance and Personnel.”
“The next stage will see the college submitting a business case, which includes a proposal for the purchase of part of the site from the district council for the development of a new college campus. The Department awaits firm proposals from the college in relation to the availability and viability of purchasing the site. This cannot be completed until the Western Health and Social Care Trust has completed the site transfer to Fermanagh District Council. <BR /> <BR />Officials from my Department and the Strategic Investment Board continue to support the project. Planning NI has indicated that the redevelopment will be acceptable in principle and will meet planning policy, subject to the normal site-specific planning and environmental criteria.”
“The South West College is working closely with Fermanagh District Council with a view to being a partner in a proposed shared services project at the Western Health and Social Care Trust's former Erne Hospital site. Fermanagh District Council is leading a development group which is seeking to create a public sector shared services hub on the site. The first stage of the plan is that the council will purchase the site from the health trust when demolition work, contamination surveys and title issues have been resolved. <BR /> <BR />The college is developing a draft business case, which has as its preferred option a new build as a replacement for its Fairview campus.”
“I have to say that people are looking at only one aspect of a budget, and they need to be very careful about drawing conclusions without looking at the full picture.”
“I approach every meeting with an open mind, but let me be clear: we have not taken a decision to transfer money out of hardship funds; they are part of a demand-led initiative. We have redirected money to FE awards, which are allocated in advance of the academic year. So, in that circumstance, a student has the support at the beginning of their studies rather than having to apply in a reactive way to hardship funds. I would have thought that, in all walks of life, it is better to intervene early and give people protection and certainty as opposed to leaving them uncertain. I find it bizarre that people are saying that we should take money from elsewhere and go back to a policy of investing in hardship funds when we have a better means of providing support to students.”
“However, that in no way, shape or form means that we are reducing money from the front line. This is a demand-led process; where demand is there, it will be met. If we happen to overshoot what is now in a revised budget, we will look for other funds elsewhere in the Department to meet that demand. There is a clear commitment from me that we will meet the demand that comes our way.”
“I thank the Chair of the Committee for his question. It is important that we draw a distinction between what is set in the budget and what is actually spent. The key consideration in all these issues is the spend, which is increasing. <BR /> <BR />The Chair is referring to the indications I gave to the Committee regarding how we are going to manage the in-year cuts that have been asked of us during this year. We have indicated that we are likely to see some underspends in some areas of student support, including the FE awards. We will have a budget allocated to that. We may not draw down all the money from that, which would create an underspend. Rather than returning that to the centre, we have the ability to offset some of the cuts through what would otherwise be an underspend.”
“I am more than happy for us to have some internal discussions in that regard to see whether we can do things even better.”