Máirtín Ó Muilleoir
South Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“Go raibh maith agat as an cheist sin. I think it must. I followed the Public Accounts Committee under my colleague Mr Swann, and I read the devastating October hearing when Ofgem appeared.”
“While the areas it will investigate will be wide-ranging, it will necessarily include key areas in which there has been huge public interest, including the development and roll-out of the RHI scheme by the then Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment; the signing off of the scheme by the then Department of Finance and Personnel; th…”
“I thank Mr Clarke for that question. I know that Mr Clarke was at the PAC hearing that Robin Swann had the wonderful occasion to chair. I would have paid money to attend that because it was certainly a difficult session for the PAC.”
“In relation to the question asked, I want to speak in particular of the seven months that I have been in the Department of Finance. I have been deeply impressed by the commitment, diligence and alertness of my officials to the RHI scandal. I mentioned previously alerting the Comptroller and Auditor General.”
“Ba mhaith liom buíochas a thabhairt don Chomhalta as an cheist sin. I think that any inquiry will ask what went wrong, where it went wrong, who was accountable and what happened. In that context, I am totally convinced that the decision to involve Ofgem in the RHI scheme was a major mistake. Ofgem has failed.”
“Therefore, I wish to reassure the public by setting out the steps that I think must be taken to ensure absolute openness and transparency. The arrangements I have detailed in this statement are intended to ensure this.”
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“We have resisted calls in the Chamber to introduce water charges, which would be another tax on working families. We have stood by our senior citizens and refused to introduce fares for pensioners, and we will keep that free of charge. We have kept prescriptions free of charge. We can be proud of all those things. We have managed to deliver on those because of the leadership of the parties in the Chamber, in the Executive and in the main parties. <BR /> <BR />The only alternative that has been put up to the Budget is a suggestion from the SDLP that we take £800,000 from the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister and give it to women's centre kindergartens for childcare.”
“What we have done amounts to a good day's work: £170 million for Invest NI, £27 million for Tourism NI, £11 million for our friends in Tourism Ireland and £3 million for InterTradeIreland, with the last two being doubled by the Irish Government. That puts us on a strong footing as we move towards the introduction of corporation tax, making it affordable and ensuring that our people are skilled up and that we can grasp the full opportunity. Those are key achievements in the Budget of which we can be proud. <BR /> <BR />We can be very proud of the fact that we have capped student fees. Voices in the Chamber have said, "Heap more pain on students. Make them pay more for the liberation of a third-level education". We have said no to that.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am enormously proud of the fact that we are spending £4·8 billion on our health service and well over £2 billion on our education service. Those who criticise and snipe at what we have done need to tell us what they would take from the health budget or the education budget and where they would put it. That is what has been absent. There have been attempts to denigrate the Budget, but there is no suggestion of where those people would take money from and where they would replace it. <BR /> <BR />In my view, not enough money is being set aside for economic development, but you can never have enough money.”
“Absolutely. Some of the projects-in-waiting are in the inner city. Some parties here do not have a lot of support in inner-city areas and are caustic about the social investment fund. In my view, however, the Sandy Row enterprise hub is a project that can transform Sandy Row. We need to put our shoulder to the wheel to make sure that these things happen. I am very proud of the fact that the A5 and A6 are now up and running. I salute those who convinced the Irish Government to put in their £75 million against our money. I welcome the fact that, through this Budget, we will start the north-west gateway between Derry and Donegal, as mentioned in the Fresh Start Agreement, with £1·5 million set against it.”
“In particular, I am proud of the fact that we have set aside over half a billion pounds for welfare top-ups. No other place in these islands has managed to match that in any way at all. It is testimony to the generosity of the political parties that lead the Executive and to our constituents that they have agreed that we should set aside such a monumental sum of money to ease the effect of Tory welfare cuts. <BR /> <BR />I am also proud of some local things in the Budget. The school of law at Queen's will get £10 million. I really hope that the social investment fund prospers in the year ahead and that the money allocated to it is spent. I think of the Markets tunnel project, a magnificent project to link the Markets to the city centre. I hope that that will be realised —”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Tá áthas orm páirt a ghlacadh sa díospóireacht seo inniu faoin cháinaisnéis. Mr Weir brings good news: I did not know that we had an extra £50 million for capital build. <BR /> <BR />I want to speak in favour and in defence of the Budget. It is a Budget of which we can be proud. These are tough issues and tough times. Despite that, we have come up with a Budget that will serve our people well. It does not have everything in it that I would like, and there are areas in which I would have liked to see additional expenditure. However, being in government, sharing power with others and having to come to agreed settlements mean that you do not get everything that you want. Despite that, there are many things in the Budget that the electorate will be grateful for.”
“I am not suggesting that you are running out of steam, my fellow colleague from South Belfast. Last night, you were good enough and bold enough to give us examples of things that the SDLP would do. Now that we are debating the Budget, I think that, despite the special and, perhaps, rushed, circumstances, it would be helpful if you were to give us an opportunity to see some of the alternative ideas that the SDLP has about spending.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it in order, despite our many differences, to commend the Minister on the Alert Logic job investment in Belfast yesterday, which, incredibly, he did not mention? I think that the House should congratulate him on that.”
“Can the Minister guarantee that he will give us clarity on that issue, work in collaboration with the sector, and include the Committee as he reaches a decision? Let the date not be next week, Minister.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Mo bhuíochas fosta leis an Aire as na freagraí go dtí seo. We all have some sympathy with the Minister in that these decisions have emerged from London, but I want to move on past the ROC to the renewable heat incentive (RHI). This morning, we spent two distressing hours in the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment listening to officials tell us that another bombshell has been dropped on the renewable industry sector and that the RHI is to be removed.”
“Go raibh maith agat. Mo bhuíochas fosta leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. Minister, you have been a formidable advocate and battler for the fishing industry and the dairy industry, but what can you do to oppose the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership as a Minister in this small part of the world?”
“Thank you very much, Minister, for your response. I did not mean to spring that on you. I suppose it is topical because St Patrick's Day is coming round, and you will remember that that is always a very tough time for the families and residents of the Holylands. Perhaps, Minister, in the time remaining before Parliament breaks up, I could invite you to come back to the Holylands. Maybe you will visit south Belfast and meet some of the residents. In short, Minister, I presume that you would like to see a vibrant, family friendly community that does not have the sort of antisocial behaviour that we have seen on St Patrick's Day in previous years.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Ba mhaith liomsa fosta tacú agus tréaslú leis an Aire as a cheapachán. I also congratulate the Minister on his appointment. Your predecessor tells me that he left a little note for you to deal sympathetically with my questions, so I hope you received that, Minister.”
“I would be really pleased, Minister, if you could come back at some stage and tell Members that Invest NI is having regular dealings with the IDA and ensuring that it is getting all the information and knowledge that it has, so that that is also brought to bear north of the border when corporation tax is harmonised across the island, as we hope and trust will happen if it is affordable.”
“I want to follow up on what Conor Murphy said about the visit to the Dáil last week and the report on the all-island economy. We are sometimes critical of unionist Ministers for not doing enough for the all-island economy. This is the first report on an all-island economy since the Oireachtas came into being, so the criticisms and blame can be shared. <BR /> <BR />It is very relevant to what you said today, Minister, that one of the big proposals is for one economic and enterprise agency on the island. Will you ensure that your officials work proactively, in a professional and systemic fashion, with the IDA on corporation tax harmonisation and reduction, because it has been there, done that, got the T-shirt. It has shown that it can maximise the full benefits of a reduced level of corporation tax.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Buíochas arís leis an Aire. I thank the Minister for the statement on cross-border economic cooperation. I want to commend him on managing to find the £206,000 for InterTradeIreland because, of course, Minister Bruton was able to double that and put £600,000 into InterTradeIreland at this time when there is so much momentum behind the work that it is involved in.”
“I think also, of course, of the States and the great wish that Belfast and its sister city of Boston could be united by an air route. Additionally, Minister, welcome back.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Ba mhaith liom fosta buíochas a ghabhail leis an Aire agus fáilte a chur roimhe ar ais go hÉireann ghlas. I thank the Minister for his statement. I welcome him back from his successful tour of the United States. It is 4.00 am in California and so, if the Minister yawns, he has an excuse. <BR /> <BR />I suppose that I have two questions, Minister, about this successful engagement with Tourism Ireland. The first is, before we all go on our way and seek election, those of us who are standing again in May, can we perhaps get the air development route fund up and running? I think that it would make a difference. As you know, tourism is 9% of GDP south of the border and 6% up here. Closing that gap would be enormously helpful to our airports.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I am not usually in the Chamber this early in the morning, and I am pleasantly surprised to see how many Members are here. I do not want to continue the debate on Brexit, Minister, and the disasterville that will ensue should there be a vote to leave the EU. I want to focus on your statement. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you outlined the sums of money involved and some of the areas where it will be spent. How do we ensure that the moneys spent here under the Peace programme and INTERREG complement the work of government — the work, for example, that Belfast City Council is doing? How do we make sure that the money is spent not only strategically but in a bold and ambitious way to lift, in my view, the city of Belfast, which is my great interest of course?”
“Is that something that the Minister might consider in the future?”
“Go raibh maith agat. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. Thank you for that, Minister. An additional issue with the funds that we have, in particular the £100 million NI innovation fund, is the ability to attract funds from other areas. I was with the New York State Comptroller on Friday morning in New York. Some of our Assembly colleagues were there the night before. The New York City Comptroller and the New York State Comptroller have invested here previously through different ventures. With these funds, I wonder whether there is an ability not only to have our own money, like financial transactions capital money, going in, but a way to say to pension funds across the globe — it could be the Church of England pension fund, OMERS in Canada or New York state — "Let your money go into our kitty as well, and we will manage that for you".”
“Déanaim comhghairdeas leis an Aire fosta. I congratulate the Minister on his elevation. I hope you are not regretting it yet, Minister.”
“A little birdie tells me that Mr Newton been selected again, so I presume that he will return in May. I think that there may be a future for him — I do not know whether he will be in your Chair, Mr Speaker, after the break — moonlighting as a tour guide for the Stormont estate.”
“I know that his medical team are a bit worried about a man of his advanced years taking part in the parkrun, but I was glad, and it was a victory for modern science, that he was able to finish the parkrun. An interesting point about the Saturday morning parkrun is that the biggest ever parkrun was on New Year's Day, as you said. There were 500 little tags, and 514 people took park. That shows that, when we allow people to take ownership of this Building and the estate, they will do so. I wish them well in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />Finally, in West Belfast, we have a famous flâneur, tour guide and walker — Tom Hartley. I see in Robin Newton the Tom Hartley of the Stormont estate. I would go on a walk with him to see all the different icons of Stormont that he mentioned, plus the GAA tree, of course.”
“That would be first class. Anything that Sustrans is involved in, you can sign me up for. <BR /> <BR />I wanted to make that point about bus stops, and I want to make the point about disability access. Mr Andy Allen has pointed out how poor disability access was, and it was not his job to get it sorted out. In fact, it is an indictment on us that it was not sorted for him and for other wheelchair users. It is absolutely imperative that we measure up and shape up and that we make sure that, if you are a wheelchair user, you have exactly the same access as anyone else in this Building. I hope that that will happen in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />Mr Lyttle mentioned the parkrun.”
“The thrill of the City Hall is sitting in the Lord Mayor's chair, and, here, I ask the Minister, where we can say yes to people to increase use, we should do so. There is always a reason to say no, but, if we can stretch ourselves to increase usage, that would be a victory for us. Anything that increases ownership of the place and that makes people have a higher regard for Stormont and its representatives would be a good thing. <BR /> <BR />I have two final points. We do not have any shelters at the bus stops, and I know that the Minister will get that sorted. There are four bus stops and no shelters, and we are trying to encourage people to access Parliament Buildings and the estate without having to use a car.”
“The grace and generosity with which they welcome people is truly tremendous, and they make it fun and enjoyable to visit the estate and the Building. <BR /> <BR />There are still a number of small restrictions. You may not know, Mr Speaker, that, when they come into the Chamber, visitors are not allowed to sit in the Speaker's Chair. Maybe in the time ahead someone will look at that. I do not know whether you know that that is a rule. At City Hall, that is the big thrill. It is the big money that you get to sit —”
“If I take a picture in the morning and there are no people about, my heart sinks, because, really, the test of our ability to throw the Building and the estate open is that there should be people around and being seen running, walking, walking their dogs and admiring the place. As Mr Newton said, there should be tourists here. I think that all of us want to see that maximised in the time ahead. Sammy had to jump through a number of hoops to try to get a wedding picture at the castle. <BR /> <BR />I want to pay tribute to the generosity of the staff in this Building. Of course, there are the wonderful ground staff that we have, who make the estate look magnificent, but there is also the generosity of the ushers who are here, the cafe staff, the tour staff, the education staff.”
“I thank my colleague Robin Newton for introducing the topic, and I asked Sinn Féin whether I could speak on it, because I believe very strongly that Parliament Buildings and the estate are a great asset of our community. They are a great treasure of the city of Belfast, and I echo the comments made by my friend and colleague Mr Douglas that we need to make maximum use of the estate. <BR /> <BR />Mr Speaker, I know that you do not follow Twitter, but, every morning when I come in, I take a picture of the estate. There was a fog rolling in this morning, but I was glad to see that disappear during the day. I like to see people in those pictures, and, for me, that is the test of whether this is a people's estate and a people's Building.”
“Ba mhaith liom mo léamh féin a chur ar an scéal seo. I take the opportunity to congratulate the Minister on his elevation. I am told that, in the long negotiation about taking the job, he said that he wanted to be present for the Adjournment debate on the Stormont estate. You have that glamour engagement tonight.”
“None of us is happy with any cut at all to third-level education. Does the Member agree with me that it would be wrong to increase tuition fees as some of those who are loudest in their condemnation of the challenges that we face in asking for more money for universities suggest. That has been put forward as one of the solutions at this time. We need to freeze tuition fees while trying to get more money for our universities.”
“Mr Nesbitt said that our debt costs us £60 million a year to service out of an £11·5 billion Budget. Does the Member accept that that is wholly manageable and that any other £11·5 billion organisation or Government would be very comfortable to have debt that requires £60 million a year to service?”
“Pardon me, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I say that to Mr Nesbitt because none of us will disagree with what is in the book or the Bible, but could he move on to the solutions? I am really interested in them. I heard Mr Cree speak earlier, and I would love to hear some solutions from the UUP to the problems that we have.”
“Thank you, yes. That is two that you have in the bank. I accept all of that. You are reading from the book, so the statistics must be right, but I hope —”
“Can I make a point of information? I owe you a point of information, Mr Nesbitt. Perhaps you will take one on that point?”
“Will the Member take a point of information?”
“Can the Member remind us of how much money is set aside in this Budget to protect those on welfare — the most vulnerable?”
“It is 110 years since Belfast Met was established. Will you look at finding a way this year — you have only a few weeks left, or maybe you will be back in a bigger post — to mark and celebrate its contribution to the city and all our successes over that period?”
“Mar is gnách, a LeasCheann Comhairle, gabhaim buíochas leat agus leis an Aire as an fhreagra chuimsitheach sin. I thank the Minister for a comprehensive response. I know that he has done groundbreaking work with Belfast City Council and Belfast Met on the Leading the City to Work programme and the E3 campus. <BR /> <BR />Given that the work that the Belfast Met carries out is often with those who are on the margins and those who perhaps did not have other education opportunities, given the fact that there are 20,000 students there and given the fact that Marie-Thérèse McGivern and her team have devoted themselves to making sure that Belfast Met is central to the education story of the city —”
“Minister, when you talk about taking it forward, I ask you to make it a priority to provide the funding and resources to allow us to do more detailed work on this, and to give the backing to InterTradeIreland for those sectors, to create the jobs that we want to see North of the border in particular.”
“Buíochas fosta leis an Aire. I want to thank the Minister for work he has been doing on funding with InterTradeIreland over the past month and a half, and also for his comprehensive answer to the question. Minister, you have probably read the entire report, whereas I have only read the summary and conclusions. Right at the end — in fact, the last sentence of the last paragraph — the report refers to the software sector. It states how software industries on the island are located in Dublin and Belfast, and mentions the energy and potential of that Dublin-Belfast corridor for software.”
“It is my hope that, in the new mandate, when there is a completely new Department and new Committee, the Committee will engage positively, as we have done, with the credit union movement, take the shopping list and build credit unions, which are, as Mr Dunne said, at the heart of the community and an alternative to the banking system. Credit unions are a very positive alternative that are growing in strength. <BR /> <BR />I commend the Bill and, on behalf of Sinn Féin, endorse its passage through the House at this stage.”
“<BR /> <BR />When the credit union representatives came in, it was quite clear that they had a long shopping list. They had some concerns over whether a company or a sole trader could register as a business with a credit union, and they did not win everything that they wanted in clause 1. Regardless, they are happy with where we are. <BR /> <BR />It also struck me that, as we might expect with great beacons of the community, they have a shopping list and would like to do more. When you think of where we have been with the banking crisis, we can, and do, trust the credit union movement.”
“Maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I will try to beat the brevity of Mr Cochrane-Watson's comments, but I join him in thanking the staff and officers who prepared the materials for us, provided us with ample and comprehensive research on all the matters and facilitated the credit union movement in its negotiations and discussions with us. <BR /> <BR />I pay a special word of thanks to the Chair. The membership of the Committee kept changing, and, every time that he came in, we enquired about the detailed meaning of each clause. I thank him for his patience and help in that regard. One of the things that disappointed all of us was the fact that it has taken so long for the Bill to get to this stage. As they say in Irish, más mall is mithid — better late than never.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Tréaslaím leis an Aire as an méid atá déanta aici ar son na Gaeilge ar fud na Sé Chondae. It is heartening to hear of so many positive community and Irish language activities right across the North. The Minister is providing funding to the real society out there; she is reflecting the bilingual nature of our society. Sometimes, you do not see that. Will she continue not only to change society but to reflect the fact that there is a vibrant Irish language community out there that needs funding for its many activities?”
“It is clear that the demand for these changes came after the start of the crash, when we were deluged with administrations and people being made bankrupt. It has been a while in coming forward, but I think that this will bring relief to those who suffer the trauma of administration and those who are made bankrupt, which is a dreadful experience. It will also help the practitioners who are there to try to set affairs in order and make sure that those who are entitled to be paid and can be paid are paid, and then get people back on their feet. For all those reasons, it is a positive Bill. I think that it is welcome for those who have been waiting, perhaps too long, for this to go through. The Minister said that it has been a long time in gestation. I do not want to delay the birth any longer, so I am happy to endorse the Bill tonight.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Ba mhaith liom fosta tréaslú le gach duine a raibh baint acu leis an Bhille seo ar shaineolaithe dócmhainneachta. I echo the thanks to the staff of the Bill Office, the DETI officials, the two Ministers and, of course, the Chair of the Committee. There were many times when we were discussing this issue that I was not sure that anyone understood 100% all the complexities, but I think that the Chair came close and kept us going forward.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. Minister, I hope that it is a two-way street and that the Independent Fiscal Council will ask you for some advice as well and that, no doubt, you will give it. Can you confirm to me that, while it will advise, it will be you as Minister and the Executive who will take the decisions ultimately?”
“Go raibh maith agat, Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister. Minister, you mentioned landlords being able to avoid business rates by letting to charity shops, which, of course, do not pay rates. Have you given much thought to that? Is that a loophole being used by landlords, and are we ending up with too many charity shops in our high streets? Can something be done in the rates review to tackle that?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I am sure that that is a warning for me, and I will take it on board. <BR /> <BR />One thing that the Minister and I agree on is that the Fresh Start Agreement gave confidence to the business community and those who wish to build the economy. In that context, has he seen the prosperity plan from the last SDLP Member to speak, Mr McKinney? I have not seen that prosperity plan. Has the Minister seen that prosperity plan, which may have an alternative way to grow the economy? If he has, will he give me his assessment of the SDLP prosperity plan?”