Máirtín Ó Muilleoir
South Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“Go raibh maith agat as an cheist sin. I think it must. I followed the Public Accounts Committee under my colleague Mr Swann, and I read the devastating October hearing when Ofgem appeared.”
“While the areas it will investigate will be wide-ranging, it will necessarily include key areas in which there has been huge public interest, including the development and roll-out of the RHI scheme by the then Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment; the signing off of the scheme by the then Department of Finance and Personnel; th…”
“I thank Mr Clarke for that question. I know that Mr Clarke was at the PAC hearing that Robin Swann had the wonderful occasion to chair. I would have paid money to attend that because it was certainly a difficult session for the PAC.”
“In relation to the question asked, I want to speak in particular of the seven months that I have been in the Department of Finance. I have been deeply impressed by the commitment, diligence and alertness of my officials to the RHI scandal. I mentioned previously alerting the Comptroller and Auditor General.”
“Ba mhaith liom buíochas a thabhairt don Chomhalta as an cheist sin. I think that any inquiry will ask what went wrong, where it went wrong, who was accountable and what happened. In that context, I am totally convinced that the decision to involve Ofgem in the RHI scheme was a major mistake. Ofgem has failed.”
“Therefore, I wish to reassure the public by setting out the steps that I think must be taken to ensure absolute openness and transparency. The arrangements I have detailed in this statement are intended to ensure this.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,305 lines we hold for Máirtín Ó Muilleoir, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 8 of 27.
“He also understands that, until the 23 November statement, which is around the corner, and a clear declaration of where their corporation tax is going, we cannot have the type of intense negotiation that we need to have, but we are on track. <BR /> <BR />If the Member wishes to put pressure on the British Government in this regard, he can be my guest. Let the British get the 23 November statement out of the way. Will they commit to 17% or something else? I think that there may be no change, neither that suggested by George Osborne nor by the papers at the weekend. We will do our bit, and I am committed and confident. We will make it affordable, because that is in the Fresh Start Agreement as well.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Chief Secretary, by the way, did not mention the issue of reform at all, but I went back over the rule book with him. I am committed and confident that we will introduce a reduced rate of corporation tax on 1 April 2018. We will do so to create thousands of jobs and a step change in our economic growth, which will benefit, in particular, communities that have not seen the economic bounty that they should have in the past. I am taking his own views from him on the issue. The Member will know — he has spent many years in the corporation tax furrow — but he understands that there is a negotiation ahead.”
“I think that the RHI has got you confused; it is the back burner that you put things on. We have many boilers going in the RHI. <BR /> <BR />I can tell you this about Mr Gauke in all honesty: to save his own blushes, he did not pretend for a minute that the delay in corporation tax was on our side. Let us be honest: these are the guys who have no idea what they will announce about their own corporation tax on 23 November. This is the Government who have created what Mr Hammond refers to as "economic turbulence" at this time. This is the Government who cannot tell us with absolute certainty what they will do with our resource budget in the time ahead. There were indications yesterday but not absolute certainty.”
“I am confident that the City of Derry Airport realises that it has to use this money in a way in which it will actually try and base jobs there and perhaps create a new initiative. I hope that that happens in the time ahead.”
“I thank Mr Robinson for his question. As the Member knows, some of this was trailed previously in the press in relation to drugs and the city of Derry investment. It is the hope of the City of Derry Airport that it can actually create a jobs boost by locating a manufacturing or maintenance facility at the airport which can use the resource that the airport has — for example, the hangars, not only the equipment but the airport itself. I hope to hear more news coming out of the City of Derry Airport on its plans. We know that all airports are under pressure, not least because of air passenger duty, and there were a couple of body blows to the City of Derry Airport earlier in the year.”
“We will take that money and see how it can be used to offset the costs of RHI. <BR /> <BR />The second thing that I would say to the Member — I know it will please him as well — is that I think we are making progress with regard to RHI. Last week, your colleague talked about the exorbitant costs if we do not get it in check. I hope that the Economy Minister, at Question Time in the near future, will be able to able to give you some comfort in that regard. We are absolutely united in making sure that we control the RHI cost and that we, as far as possible, eliminate it in the time ahead because it is a drain on our budgets.”
“I thank the Member for his question to go with the minutiae. The good news is that the Economy Minister is up for questions shortly and you can probe him on how he made his allocations. <BR /> <BR />One of the things that pleased me greatly over recent weeks is that, first, we moved £20 million to the centre, as you know, in June. That has not been used yet, but it is a contingency, and we know that RHI is causing us problems. You will know about this, more than most, since you chair the PAC. I was pleased that the Economy Minister and his Department tried to absorb some of the pressure rather than coming back to October monitoring saying that they needed an extra £7 million or £8 million. The Economy Minister will have to answer in more detail as to why he was able to do that.”
“I am confident that all Ministers will deliver and that the Justice Minister, in particular, will deliver on her promises and pledges based on the budget she has been allocated; that that money will be spent and that none of it will be lost, and that it will do the work that the Member worked towards in uniting our community and tackling paramilitarism. I am confident that it will deliver on that pledge in the time ahead.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The last time I saw him, he was on the stage with the Belfast Community Gospel Choir singing, 'Oh Happy Day'. I thought, perhaps, you would give us a few verses of that today in response to this first step economic stimulus. <BR /> <BR />When Claire Sugden was appointed, she asked, "Who will I turn to for advice?", and I said, "David Ford, of course". Here you are today, giving her advice. I do not know whether it is tinged with envy; I am not going to suggest that it is.”
“That is true of a stimulus package at this time. It also said that a stimulus package can accelerate economic growth and improve opportunities. There has been a Damascene conversion on the part of the British Government on the issue. Members will know that we asked for additional investment over many years at the height of the lunatic drive towards ideological austerity, and we did not receive a hearing. Now, because of, whatever about our import and influence, the voices of influential bodies, including newspapers like the 'Financial Times' and economic commentators like Robert Reich, the British Government realise that they need to invest in infrastructure. We will get a Barnett consequential from that, and we will then put our shoulder to the wheel to create, I hope, with the agreement of the Executive, a greater stimulus package.”
“of the uncertainty following the EU referendum, but it can:”
“I would love to say that David Gauke and Theresa May took my advice, but I will quote from what the 'Financial Times' has been saying about stimulus for some time, not only because borrowing rates are at historic lows. It said:”
“Even if it comes a month after you exit, you should still commit to cover that". There is still a gap there that we will start focusing on with the British Government in the time ahead. <BR />As the Member knows, the commitment was made that no funding or projects would be lost. I hope that, in the days and months ahead, we get that commitment. That will enable us to really press ahead with all types of projects that could have funding streams coming and letters of offer issued after March 2019. The Member and I are agreed on the importance of York Street interchange, and I hope that we will see it delivered by our Government.”
“I thank the Member for his comments. I note that he waited until Mervyn Storey left before he turned the focus back on Belfast. I agree with him: York Street interchange is a key project for the Executive. I go further: I believe that, together, we will deliver the York Street interchange. <BR /> <BR />I made the point yesterday to David Gauke that, if I were to build a new home and I had the money to build 60% of it, it would not be prudent to move ahead, build 60% and hope that I get the other 40%. The Member will understand that we moved the British Government on their commitment. At first, there was no guarantee over EU funding. They then moved to guarantee a certain degree. Now, they have moved to guarantee until an exit, if it happens. Yesterday I said to David Gauke, "Look, go the extra mile and commit to funding.”
“For me, the First Step Stimulus package would have been incomplete if we had not made a commitment to communities that have great opportunity and are really thirsting for a brighter future.”
“It is a test for us, because, when I talk about First Step Stimulus, what I am really presaging is what I hope will be the Executive coming together and saying that, from the capital budget for 2017-2021 plus whatever additional infrastructure Barnett consequential there is on 23 November plus hopefully a £200 million loan facility for councils from the European Investment Bank, we are able to fashion a much more strategic, large and meaningful stimulus package — really a Fresh Start package — in our budgets next year. <BR /> <BR />For now, this is a first step in a stimulus package. For me, it was important that we did not do the First Step Stimulus package without putting some into the communities that have not received enough of the peace dividend. I represent South Belfast, parts of which have done well and some not so well.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Member and I share concerns about the speed of delivery. The window of opportunity of £5 million to make transformative investments largely has to go into property or land acquisition or into equipment in some cases. What I will say to the Member is that she and I share the desire that this money be allocated before 1 April, so it cannot be a long-run process. I think that it will be a process that will be welcomed across the community.”
“It really means that, if, for example, you take the Ballybeen autism centre, which is a really imaginative, innovative and important project in the heart of a working-class area, we could not allocate funds to build because you could not tender and build at this time of the year. Other projects, such as an Cultúrlann McAdam Ó Fiaich, are being well advanced. As everyone in the Irish language sector — pobal na Gaeilge — knows, it has a really inspiring plan to build up what is already the country's greatest Irish language arts centre into a beacon of progress for the entire city at the heart of the Gaeltacht Quarter. It has a project that involves the swift allocation of capital moneys. There are, in fact, projects already on the table. Members who work at the grass roots will know about some of them.”
“I thank the Member for her question. When we were here for June monitoring, the Member discovered allocations that were not made and issued a statement immediately saying that my wonderful officials had got it all wrong, so I am glad that at least this time she accepts the figures. We are making progress. I hope that by January monitoring she might be in a position to welcome the investment that we have made in our health service, our education service and other projects. <BR /> <BR />The Member might not understand this, but allocating capital DEL is quite a challenge at this stage of the year.”
“I have found any project that Tim Losty has led on behalf of this Government to have been a worthy one. There are great opportunities there. They require diligence and focused effort. I am pleased to see Ulster University, Queen's University, Belfast City Council and the Executive really lining up together to make sure that we seize those opportunities. I am very sympathetic to efforts by the First Minister and the deputy First Minister to ensure that our efforts in China have adequate resources in the time ahead.”
“I do not think that the First Minister and deputy First Minister would allow me to take over their budget or budget priorities. However, I will say this in agreement with the Member. I was speaking at the weekend with Shaun Kelly, the global CEO of KPMG, who sits on the north-east USA advisory panel for the Minister for the Economy. He is just back from China and met our lead representative there, Tim Losty, who did sterling work for the Executive in Washington and, before that, when the Member was still at kindergarten, for LEDU on investment in working-class areas of the city.”
“The investment fund concept has been really welcomed by the business community, and people are lining up to engage in new projects if they can get some of the investment fund. We are on course, and it is appropriate to thank David Gauke for his flexibility on the issue.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am now confident that we have £77 million financial transactions capital. Some of my colleagues in the Ulster Unionist Party were fretting in the newspapers that it would be lost to our Budget. If they had called into my office to speak to me first, they would not have made the mistake of thinking for a minute that we would allow any of our resources to go back to London, resources that are given to us to build this society. I am confident that the Treasury will work with us now; that we will not lose any of the financial transactions capital, even if it is unallocated at year end; and that we can now move confidently forward to create the investment fund, the idea of Simon Hamilton when he was Finance Minister.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as a ceist. I should put it on record that, at our meeting yesterday with the Chief Secretary, David Gauke, at the Treasury in London, we had full and firm support from our colleagues in Scotland and Wales. Of course, when we speak together, we speak for 10 million people, not only in our opposition to austerity and our demand for a fiscal stimulus in the autumn statement but in our particular difficulty with financial transactions capital because of the new approach taken by the European Investment Bank. I am pleased to say that, with the three Governments speaking together, we put our case. The Scottish and Welsh also brought up issues that the Treasury — I do not want to say "gave ground on" — moved to a compromise on.”
“To give no welcome at all to this first-step economic stimulus or to our efforts to grow jobs and to create a better future says everything that needs to be said about the failed austerity politics of the British Government, which, of course, were brought into being in the company of our friends in the Ulster Unionist Party as part of the gloriously named UCUNF.”
“I know that the Member would like to interrupt, but I will push on. He is very fond of and close to the British Government. He was involved in the architecture of the Tory austerity programme at the very start in 2010. We will focus on making a step change in delivery for our people. <BR /> <BR />You have my full blessing to focus on minutiae, if you wish. I am happy to go there with you as necessary. You have my full blessing to support the NIO and the Treasury in what they do. However, what I say to Members is this: regardless of taking the politics out of health, let us take the politics out of creating a better future for our people. Let us applaud what deserves to be applauded and criticise where criticism is necessary.”
“It does not surprise me, because the Member is focused on opposition for opposition's sake, that he can see nothing worthy or to be lauded in that. Instead, he wishes to give succour to the British Government, who have created perhaps the greatest economic mess of our time”
“We have taken decisions that will make a real difference in the heart of areas such as east Belfast, Tiger's Bay, the Creggan and Ballymurphy.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am happy for you to focus on minutiae. In fact, I know that it is an area of expertise for the Opposition, but I am focusing on delivery. I made it clear to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury yesterday that we would ensure that we deliver stable, sustainable budgets and that we would work in partnership with them on Fresh Start funding but, ultimately, our Ministers would make the decisions. I am confident that the Minister of Justice will be able, in negotiation with our colleagues in Treasury, to deliver an action plan, as they desire. <BR /> <BR />For me, the overarching point is this: we have taken decisions today that are to the benefit of the community. We have taken decisions that will accelerate economic growth. We have taken decisions that will create jobs.”
“We did, of course, have a difficulty with the European Investment Bank that we did not expect, but the response is not to abandon ship but to find an innovative and novel way in which we can have the investment fund. I agree absolutely that TLC is needed not only in the jurisdiction's two large cities but for the opportunities that exist outside them. <BR /> <BR />My final point is that perhaps still the most impressive initiative that I have visited since my appointment was the South West College in Enniskillen, and I know that it hopes to get new premises. There are opportunities like that across the region — I hope that they will not depend on the investment fund — and I hope that we can seize them, not just those in Belfast and Derry.”
“I thank the Member for his question. My concern extends to his constituency and wider. That said, when I was in Portrush last week, I was deeply impressed by the plans to develop the town to coincide with the Open. What made a real impact on me was the number of small, indigenous businesspeople in the private sector who want to make a contribution and want to invest. They now see an opportunity that would be good for them as businesspeople and really good for Portrush. I have visited Ballymena and Ballycastle, and, as you know, in Ballycastle, evidence of an investment can be seen in the hotel right on the beachfront. That has made a difference. <BR /> <BR />I say to the Member that we will have the investment fund.”
“I would be more focused on the outcome than on any concerns about the timing of the announcement. <BR /> <BR />In all these matters, alacrity is important, and I am really keen to work with the Committee, the Assembly and my Executive colleagues to deliver as we promised. That means June monitoring in June, October monitoring in October and January monitoring in January. The added bonus is that, if we work together, we can identify the pressures that are most urgent. As Executive Ministers, we are making choices together, not just in our own little patch or silo, and we are making decisions that are for the good of all the community and all of society rather than just on behalf of our Departments.”
“It is no surprise to the public that, because we have an Executive facing in the one direction and firmly focused on a shared and prosperous future and on making the investments we need to build a strong economy, I have had the good fortune to be able to deliver the monitoring rounds in a more expeditious fashion than heretofore. I spoke about the difference in timings between now and last year. More important than that is this new start, this fresh start and this Executive, who, despite deep political differences, are able to make common cause on these key issues. I think that people on the ground will see the difference in that. If I was a school principal or governor waiting for urgent moneys to repair classrooms or improve and enhance a school estate, I would be pleased.”
“Reform and improvement have to go together. We are now set on a path of improving, changing and transforming our health service in a way never seen before. I heard the Minister refer to the two-mandate challenge, and there will be a role in that for the public sector transformation fund. However, let us be clear about this, and I know that the Member will agree with me: we will protect front-line services in health and, of course, in education. The Ministers will manage their budgets and will do so in partnership with the entire Executive. Common purpose means that we are very understanding and sympathetic of pressures when they emerge, but it also means that Ministers give the lead. In that respect, we saw strong leadership this morning not only from the Minister of Health but from the Executive.”
“It is a path that requires partnership not only among the Executive parties and with the Minister of Justice but across the Assembly where we take the politics out of health and commit ourselves to trying to improve outcomes in a more efficient health service. <BR /> <BR />We stand ready to support the Health Minister as she comes forward with her request. The allocation of resource DEL is as outlined, but the Member will not have missed the point — he was here for the Minister of Health's statement — that there will be an added requirement on all of us to make sure that we have the fiscal firepower to deliver the change that everyone wants to improve our health service.”
“I thank Mr Farry for his question. I see that our efforts to take the politics out of health have not made it to the afternoon. <BR /> <BR />My commitment to the Minister of Health is that we know that there will be a cost to the new path on which she has set all of us in this society. She is outlining a vision of trying to manage change rather than managing crisis. The Executive as a whole will have to step up. I hope that one of the lessons or messages from the joint meeting of the Executive today was that we all understand that this is a priority, and, when Professor Bengoa says, rather forthrightly, that if Governments across Europe cannot control expenditure on health, health will take up the entire public purse. <BR /> <BR />The Health Minister is setting us on a bold and ambitious path.”
“I will make neither excuses nor apologies to anyone for delivering on behalf of this Executive. In fact, had I come here today and said that we are facing an October monitoring round of further cuts, then there would be something to apologise for. Instead, we are coming here and saying that we are able to buy more buses and ensure that we have a 21st-century bus fleet for Translink. We are saying that, for the first time, we are trying to partner community organisations in a very focused way over the next few months to try to buy some key properties in working-class areas so that they can continue the work of building a shared future. So, I am sorry for the Member, but I do not agree with him.”
“I thank the Member for his question but I do not agree. I have appeared at the Finance Committee twice and I am happy to appear again at its request. What you have seen here is a division between those who want to oppose and those who want to invest, those who want to complain and those who want to build, those who want to find a reason to pick at a scab and those who want to heal. What we are seeing here today is a first-step economic stimulus, which we have not tried for many years. We tried it at the height of the crash. We are seeing money being released for defibrillators in ambulances and to maintain and repair our roads. Money is going into our schools to buy new equipment and to maintain, do up and enhance the school estate. <BR /> <BR />For me, those things are what today is about.”
“Certainly, part of the message that we have been giving for many years about investing to grow the economy is now getting through and we will get a boost to infrastructure spend in the 23 November statement.”
“Members on both sides of the Chamber are saying this, because the DUP also opposed Tory austerity while some parties helped to introduce it. Throughout those six years, we said to the Conservatives that they should end austerity because it is a self-defeating strategy. The good news is that yesterday, in London, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury all but confirmed that in the 23 November autumn statement they will agree that there should be a fiscal stimulus, that austerity has failed and that they are now going to embark on a new start in relation to infrastructure stimulus. Unfortunately, our argument to the Chief Secretary that he should also stop the austerity pressure on our resource budget has not got through yet.”
“I would like to claim that it is all my own work but the principal never let me away with that in school, so I will not get away with it here. What is happening is that, instead of going back to the past, where every Minister paddled their own canoe, made all their own bids and demands and insisted that they could not make any efficiencies, we now have a united Executive which are trying to be as efficient as possible to deliver real value for money. That common purpose is feeding through into our budgets. <BR /> <BR />As well as that, it is very interesting and should be noted now that six years after the austerity agenda was launched by UCUNF and the Conservative Party in Britain, we have had six years of pain, hardship, penury, unemployment and emigration for people.”
“There has been a taking of the burden by some Departments, including the Department of Finance and the Civil Service, and I think that other Departments will now look at what they can do in the time ahead to deliver a more efficient government service. I will work closely with Ministers in that regard.”
“All Ministers are now focused on outcomes and, in that regard, therefore, instead of trying to protect fiefdoms or trying to ensure that systems that were there in the past have to endure, they are saying, "If we have nine Departments instead of 12, perhaps we do not need people doing a particular job that can be done somewhere else." <BR /> <BR />At the same time, the voluntary exit scheme (VES) offers those who wish to take redundancy an excellent package, and it frees up money for us to deliver and place in the front line of the services for our people. We are now speaking in particular to the arm's-length bodies.”
“I thank the Member for her question. As she will be aware, one of the reasons we are able to deliver October monitoring in October — last year, June monitoring was delivered in November — is what I refer to as a common-purpose Executive. You can see the benefits of that. The Executive met this morning, and Ministers are resolved to bring forward proposals which will provide greater efficiencies and better services and, in particular, schemes that involve investing to save. In that regard, we have reduced the number of Departments that serve our people. It does not make sense to have repetition across former Departments or structures.”
“I welcome questions and, certainly, if you want to focus on minutiae, I welcome it; but I think that we should focus on the delivery, the pledges made and the investment that we are making in our future.”
“Thank you, Mr Smith. Go raibh céad maith agat. If you want to wander into the office of any Minister in this Parliament, you will find that there are pressures on all fronts. I have yet to meet a Minister who says that he or she does not need any money or funding. Pressures are unremitting; but, as you know, while the demand is infinite, resources are finite. What I have done today, rather than focus on the process — you say that it is efficient, but it is more than that: it is a process, a delivery and an outcome that will accelerate growth, create jobs and give a boost to those who want to invest further. It will inspire confidence. I know that, in this House at times, people focus on the minutiae. I think that, instead of focusing on opposition, today our focus should be on delivery.”
“As I have said before, I am strongly opposed to the austerity agenda. I think that that is true of Members across the House, or, if not of every Member, most Members. The austerity agenda places constraints on the Assembly and our capacity to provide much-needed funding for our public services. I will continue to fight against austerity at all levels, and, alongside that, I will continue to develop innovative funding solutions, as demonstrated by the first phase of the Executive’s economic stimulus package that I have announced. <BR /> <BR />I commend the October monitoring outcome and the first phase of the Executive’s economic stimulus package to the Assembly.”
“I believe that, with the cooperation of all Ministers, this position is manageable over the remainder of this year.”
“The Executive will further assess the extent of that pressure in the January monitoring round. However, I understand that the Economy Minister is fully engaged on the issue. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to the October monitoring outcome. As a result of the allocations detailed above and the funding set aside for the RHI, the Executive exit the monitoring round with a £27·4 million overcommitment in resource DEL and £10·8 million in capital DEL.”
“Colleagues will note that we exit this monitoring round with £4·1million of ring-fenced resource DEL unallocated. That funding may only be used to address pressures within the ring fence — depreciation and impairments — and is therefore not available for allocation by the Executive. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware that a significant additional resource DEL pressure exists from commitments under the renewable heat incentive (RHI) scheme. The Department for the Economy has, through internal reallocations processed in this round, sought, where possible, to manage the budgetary impact of the RHI this year, and I welcome that. As mentioned earlier, the Executive have set aside £20 million of resource DEL centrally to meet pressures anticipated from the RHI scheme.”