Kellie Armstrong
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the Fisheries, Aquaculture and Water Environment Bill. It is timely and important. Miss McIlveen, a fellow MLA for the Strangford constituency, has just spoken.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill reflects the realities of the post-Brexit landscape by aligning protections here with those in other UK jurisdictions and the UK Fisheries Act. That consistency is important for standards, enforcement and international confidence in our products.”
“Last year, I met the Department and we discussed that. The opportunities for seaweed farming in Strangford lough are wonderful, and the opportunities from seaweed that Queen's University has identified are incredible. We are lucky to have those opportunities on our doorstep, as long as there is licensing and it is properly looked after.”
“Moving beyond managing individual fisheries, the Bill recognises the interconnected nature of our rivers, loughs and seas — an approach that is very much in line with Alliance's commitment to evidence-based environmental policy. The inclusion of a national benefit objective is also significant.”
“A while ago, we saw that commercial bottom trawling had all but decimated the horse mussel population in Strangford lough. It has since been changed to a special area of conservation. That limits a lot of activity in the lough, which is not a bad thing considering that horse mussels are coming back.”
“They allow for timely action on lower-level offences without over-burdening the courts while still acting as a meaningful deterrent. If only everybody were acting properly, we would not need to have those deterrents, but we are where we are, and the Bill hopes to improve upon that.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,635 lines we hold for Kellie Armstrong, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 13 of 53.
“It was discussed at Committee at some length in one of our meetings. To be honest, it was the Member's DUP colleague who proposed that it be the oldest Member. We considered how it would go forward, but, as this is part of the rules of the House — for instance, when the Speaker, in between times, was the oldest Member — it was felt then by Members unanimously at the Committee that "the oldest Member" would be put into Standing Orders. <BR /> <BR />Assuming that the Standing Order is agreed by the Assembly today, we will undertake a review in autumn 2025 with the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee to ensure that the facilities provided for substitute Members and remote access are sufficient to enable that Committee to effectively discharge its statutory functions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Assuming that the Standing Order is agreed by the Assembly today, we will undertake a review in autumn 2025 in conjunction with the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee of the provision of substitute Members and whether the provisions, together with the availability of remote attendance facilities for Committee meetings, are sufficient to enable that Committee to effectively discharge its statutory functions.”
“Legal advice provided to the Committee set out the need for the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee to diligently discharge its functions and outlined potential risks associated with the provision of proxy voting for that Committee. Having considered the advice, the Committee on Procedures agreed not to include it in the Standing Order, noting that the provision of substitute members would provide flexibility for the Committee without incurring the potential risks identified in relation to proxy voting.”
“If the Chairperson is absent, the Standing Order confirms that the Deputy Chairperson will chair the meeting rather than any substitute member appointed by the Chair. If both the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson are absent, the oldest member present who is not a substitute member will chair the meeting. The provisions provide the necessary clarity on the chairing arrangements when substitute members are appointed. <BR /> <BR />Finally, paragraph (11) is an interpretation provision. <BR /> <BR />Before I finish my remarks as Committee Chairperson, I will briefly comment on the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee's request for the provision of proxy voting in addition to substitute members.”
“<BR /> <BR />Paragraphs (7) and (8) provide for a substitute member to attend a meeting of the Committee when the nominating member is absent and to undertake the full functions of the nominating member, including voting during the proceedings of the Committee meeting. The process to be followed for nominating a substitute member, including timescales and other practical administrative arrangements, will be set out in guidance to be agreed by the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee. Such operational details do not need to be included in the Standing Order. Setting them out in guidance provides greater flexibility to amend them if necessary. <BR /> <BR />Paragraphs (9) and (10) set out the arrangements for chairing a meeting in the absence of the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson.”
“Standing Order 52 sets out the procedures for membership of Standing Committees and applies to the establishment of the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee in this mandate. <BR /> <BR />Paragraph (6) enables each member of the Committee to appoint a substitute member and sets out a number of requirements for the substitute. Those requirements include that they must be a Member of the Assembly, must be of the same political party as the appointing member and must not already be a member of the Committee or nominated as a substitute for any other member of the Committee. The one-member-to-one-substitute approach recognises the quorum required by the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee to make decisions, which is five members.”
“<BR /> <BR />Paragraph (5) outlines that membership of the Committee:”
“as set out in schedule 6B to the Northern Ireland Act 1998. That approach is similar to that adopted for other Standing Committees in Standing Orders, while also recognising that the establishment of the Committee and its functions are already provided for in schedule 6B. <BR /> <BR />Paragraph (4) of the Standing Order highlights the Committee's section 44 powers. It is not essential for the Standing Order to cover the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee's section 44 powers, given that they are provided for in paragraphs 5(1) and 5(2) of schedule 6B to the Northern Ireland Act 1998. However, to ensure consistency with the existing Standing Orders for the other Standing Committees, the Committee on Procedures is of the view that it is important to reference those powers in the Standing Order.”
“I turn now to the detail of the Standing Order. Paragraphs (1), (2) and (3) provide for the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee and recognise its purpose and functions:”
“Over the past few months, the Committee has given detailed consideration to those issues and liaised with the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee by way of correspondence and a very helpful meeting with the Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson of that Committee on the development of the Standing Order before the Assembly today. While keen to move forward quickly on the matter to assist the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee, we have also been mindful of the need to explore carefully the implications of the various issues and have sought legal advice where appropriate.”
“It, therefore, asked the Committee on Procedures to undertake, as a priority, exploratory work to identify options that would provide in Standing Orders for substitute members, including rules on substitution and proxy voting for that Committee. <BR /> <BR />The Committee on Procedures subsequently agreed to consider provision, including substitute members and/or proxy voting, in Standing Orders for the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee as one of a number of key areas of work to be progressed this year.”
“The Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee also outlined the point that, given its statutory functions and time scales, as set out in schedule 6B to the Northern Ireland Act 1998, it was likely that the Committee would be required to meet during periods of recess and, potentially, more than once a week.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. On behalf of the Committee on Procedures, I am pleased to introduce a new Standing Order, which recognises the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee as a Standing Committee of the Assembly and provides for substitute members of that Committee to assist it in fulfilling its statutory functions within the strict time frames within which it must operate. <BR /> <BR />In March 2024, the Windsor Framework Democratic Scrutiny Committee wrote to the Committee on Procedures highlighting the issue that, whilst it had been established as a Standing Committee under the Windsor Framework (Democratic Scrutiny) Regulations 2024, it was not provided for in Standing Orders, unlike other Assembly Standing Committees, and asked that work be undertaken to draft a Standing Order to address that.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Blair): The Business Committee has agreed to allow up to one hour and 30 minutes for the debate. The proposer of the motion will have 10 minutes in which to propose and 10 minutes in which to make a winding-up speech. All other Members who are called to speak will have five minutes. I call Kellie Armstrong to open the debate on the motion.”
“Thank you very much, Minister. It warms my heart to hear that, but, as you said at the start of your speech, this is an Executive disability strategy that you are bound to take forward. Will you have clear targets and arrangements for the other Departments in your strategy?”
“I voted with the DUP in the last debate on abortion, because I too believe that disabilities should not be used as a reason for abortion. Does the Member agree that a woman should not be asked to justify her request for an abortion by giving a reason? It is up to her, with the help of whoever her doctor is, to make that decision.”
“— to enable every citizen to have equal inclusion and access.”
“Why, almost every year, do we have a child left abandoned on a school bus? <BR /> <BR />When adopted, the UNCRPD actions would enable access to an appropriate home, yet the design and provision of accessible accommodation has some of social housing's longest waiting lists. When it comes to access to employment, why is it always part-time and short-term contracts? Why can we not have support for permanent employment? By adopting UNCRPD recommendations into legislation, Northern Ireland can move from being one of the least inclusive places for people with disabilities to one of the most progressive. I want Northern Ireland to be more equitable. To be equitable, positive action needs to be taken —”
“I ask the pro-life Members this: when did you cry out against that? I am disgusted that the lives of people with learning difficulties were to be ended purely because they had learning difficulties, had COVID and were in hospital. Honestly. <BR /> <BR />The Health and Social Care hospital passport scheme has been developed, but why do no front-line staff know anything about it? It could help people with learning disabilities who are non-verbal. Why do people with disabilities and their families have to fight for appropriate access to healthcare all the time? I can go on. It is about access to transport. Why do people with mobility issues or wheelchair users have to book transport 24 hours in advance when nobody else has to? When it comes to education, why are so many pupils with special educational needs left without a school place?”
“<BR /> <BR />The transparent lack of awareness from the Executive of the necessity for improvements to reduce discriminations for persons with disabilities across Northern Ireland is a disgrace. It is as though the Executive have chosen to ignore the rights of citizens. Every Department must do better to ensure that deaf and disabled people have the same rights as non-disabled people. That includes access to healthcare. For example, why is finding a sign language interpreter so difficult for a patient who is deaf? Some of you may have received communications about a deaf lady who had to go through giving birth without a sign language interpreter to help her. How isolating was that? Why were do not resuscitate orders issued for people with disabilities, especially people with learning disabilities, during COVID?”
“As a member of the Committee for Communities, I asked the Minister, who, kindly, came to the Committee, about the reporting mechanisms for something such as the disability strategy. I was aghast when I heard that the Department for Communities would not be reporting on how the other Departments were complying with the disability strategy. If a strategy does not have teeth, with someone to monitor, measure and report back, what is the point of it? When a disability strategy is introduced, I hope that it will have teeth and be a cross-departmental document. As a person with hearing impairments, I am very frustrated by the snail-like pace from the Department for Communities on introducing a disability strategy. What is the hold-up? As a person with disabilities, I am affronted by the fact that it still has not been brought forward.”
“Why has the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities not been progressed in Northern Ireland? The UNCRPD is an international human rights treaty that sets out the human rights of deaf and disabled people. It has been agreed by the UK. Since I came to the House, I have noted that every party and independent MLA has supported the introduction of the convention's recommendations, so why has that not happened? The House has failed to progress the UNCRPD because there is not the political will to bring about equity in Northern Ireland. As was said earlier by, I think, Mr Kingston, we are living a life of less value. <BR /> <BR />Parties can prove me wrong by prioritising the rights of people with disabilities in the Programme for Government and by ensuring that funding is invested in positive and targeted actions.”
“Before I get into the main detail of what I will speak about, it is important that I place on record clarification of something that was incorrectly stated in the House earlier in the debate. The Alliance Party position on start-of-life and end-of-life issues is that they are conscience matters. They are matters that each of us takes quite seriously as individuals, but we do not vote on them as a party. If the proposer of the amendment, who has just left the Chamber, had looked back at the voting record, he would have seen that Alliance Party Members were split on the abortion vote. That is worth noting. <BR /> <BR />Returning to the motion, I will quote from the 2022 report titled 'Progress Towards the Implementation of the UNCRPD in Northern Ireland'. A contributor summed up the feelings of people with disabilities when she said:”
“I hope that the Minister can clarify that the regulations will state the minimum qualification that will be required for electricians to carry out the work in private rented homes. I ask the Minister if he can lay the guidance in the Assembly Library and supply a copy to the Landlords Association for Northern Ireland (LANI), which I welcomed and met last Friday. I appreciate that some landlords have said that it will add to their costs. However, most good private landlords, as confirmed by LANI, already carry out regular checks and maintenance on electrics in their properties. The introduction of the regulation causes them no issue or additional cost. <BR /> <BR />I look forward to seeing the easy-read guidance. Alliance supports the regulations.”
“<BR /> <BR />The purpose of the regulations is to introduce the requirement for private rented landlords to have the hardwired electrical installation of a rental property inspected and tested by a qualified electrician at intervals of not less than five years. During consideration, the Committee requested clarification from the Department of whether the guidance would include a requirement for specific qualifications for electricians to carry out the work. A departmental reply on 11 October noted:”
“I thank the Minister. I rise as a member of the Committee for Communities and as Alliance housing spokesperson. <BR /> <BR />In the initial briefing provided to the Committee for Communities by Mark O'Donnell, deputy secretary with responsibility for housing and sustainability, he confirmed that the Department would bring forward regulations for fire and electrical safety in the private rented sector. That comes as an outlier of sections 8 and 9 of the Private Tenancies Act.We put the requirement into legislation in the last mandate as part of the Private Tenancies Act. It is one of the improvement standards that the Assembly agreed to protect our private renters.”
“Thank you very much, Minister. I hope that, when you said earlier that plenty of man-hours would be spent on this, you meant that plenty of woman-hours would be spent too. <BR /> <BR />Minister, if the Committee for Communities had had the opportunity to discuss this with you, one of the things that we would like to have done would have been to ensure that you have enough support. Of the £17 million, is a portion going to be withheld for your Department to administer the scheme? Can you explain how the computing system will work to identify the people who are not on pension credit?”
“Minister, I come from a rural area. Street lights make it safer for pedestrians to walk along rural roads. Is there a record that we can access of removed street lights in each area in Northern Ireland?”
“Thank you, Minister. What proactive engagement will you undertake to promote the apprenticeship inclusion challenge fund among businesses and individuals in order to meet your targets?”
“Thank you, Minister. Are you concerned that if Ministers do not live within their budgets, it will have an impact on negotiations with the UK Government on a permanent fiscal framework and debt forgiveness?”
“<BR /> <BR />Others from the Alliance Party have spoken very warmly about Anna today. I think of Kate, Cathy, Jenna and all who worked with Anna for so long over the years. She was their work mummy, and they will desperately miss her. <BR /> <BR />Anna was my friend. She and I did not exactly share a lot of height, but the good thing about that was that, when she hugged me, she hugged me really hard, and I will miss her so much.”
“<BR /> <BR />Anna was a person who loved very warmly. In recent times, an event was held for former and current female elected representatives of the Assembly, and Anna attended it. I watched as she went round the room, and there was not a single female elected representative in the room, no matter what the party, whom Anna did not hug. We all know what Anna's hugs were like. I am very sorry for Owen and Conall and for Robert. Although they have lost a very precious person, we have all lost. Anna was a warm person. She epitomised what Alliance is about. One did not really get into an argument with Anna. She talked you round and made sure that you understood exactly how she felt, but it was all done with a smile on her face and with great warmth in her heart.”
“I came to the House in 2016, after Anna had left, but that does not mean to say that I did not know Anna in her role as a politician. I remember that, in 2014, as part of the European election campaign, she came to Portaferry to look at the SeaGen turbine that was in Strangford lough at the time. It was an absolutely miserable day. The car was fogged up. It was terrible, and there was nothing that we could do other than get out of the car and stand along the coastline, where Anna quizzed me for about 45 minutes about how the turbine worked. That encapsulates part of what we have heard here today from so many others. Anna Lo was absolutely committed to the environment. She not only loved doing her work but loved the environment. She loved doing things that were going to protect it, not just for her but for all of us.”
“If we ask all 11 councils to promote the debt advice services that they will take forward, it will take a chunk out of that money. Is there any option for the Department to promote or advertise the scheme to ensure that more people will get the benefit of that money?”
“Minister, money is always welcome. Thank you very much for bringing the funding forward for debt advice services in particular. As you said:”
“The Minister talked about the review of accommodation requirements that is under way. That may well lead to a rationalisation of the estate. Is there an option or policy on change of use that could be brought forward to allow the Minister for Communities first refusal for housing options, given that we are in a housing crisis?”
“Minister, can you confirm that, when the review is completed, you will define "essential services" to ensure that councils can provide them if there is a reduction?”
“I would love the Department to put out a clear communication to all schools to ban parents from vaping at school gates. Far too many parents or people who collect children vape at school gates. We do not want smoking or vaping there. We do not want children to think that vaping is a normal habit. <BR /> <BR />The risks of vaping to our young people are far too high. As my colleague Michelle Guy said, children are also turning to cigarettes. Vaping is not having the effect of stopping cigarette smoking; it is encouraging smoking in all forms.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am aware that some schools have had to take drastic action to control the amount of vaping. They are applying for things such as additional smoke detectors: vape smoke detectors to identify where vaping happens in school buildings or outside. I would love the Department of Education to invest in those smoke detectors to assist our teachers, classroom assistants and boards of governors in finding out where children use the vapes. Some schools have invested in glass panels in the access doors to toilets — not in the toilets — so that they can watch those private spaces to make sure that nobody is vaping, because it is dangerous not just for the person who is vaping but for the other young people who are around it.”
“We need to tell the Department to change this, get the licensing sorted out and stop the promotion and sale of vapes to children. It is not just vapes: other shops sell sunbeds and sweets to children at the same time, and they all target areas near schools. <BR /> <BR />From the Education Minister's point of view, there needs to be cross-departmental consideration of how we can end the problem, because vaping is not good. While many say that people vape in order to get off cigarettes, vaping is not good for a child when vapes are full of synthetic rubbish such as spice, which has been such a terrible blight on some of our schools across Northern Ireland. Children in those schools have had to be taken to hospital because they have used spice in vapes.”
“The ice-cream parlour advertises in its window honeycomb ice cream and chocolate ice cream and then goes on to list fruit vapes. That is a shop that is targeted completely at children and families. It is beside a bus stop; it is across from a primary school; it is around the corner from another primary school; and it openly displays the sale of vapes. The shop is targeted at children, but it sells vapes. They are not hidden behind a screen, and the flavours are all wonderfully exciting and brightly coloured. It is an absolute disgrace. We need our councils to step forward and, as part of their role in stopping the sale of cigarettes to under-18s, look at what is happening with vaping. <BR /> <BR />There also has to be a question asked of the Department for the Economy about such shops that sell confectionery.”
“I will be honest: I am not on the Education Committee, and I am not on the Health Committee. I speak as someone whose child went through the education system and as a member of a couple of boards of governors. Vaping is a pandemic that is sweeping through every school in Northern Ireland, including, unfortunately, some primary schools. The Education Minister is not the only person responsible for getting rid of what is, as others have called it, an absolute plague. There are things that need to be done. That is why the amendment that Alliance has tabled, which mentions councils, is vital. <BR /> <BR />The reason I say that is that one of the main bus stops in a rural village in my constituency is right beside an ice-cream parlour.”
“I thank Mr Carroll for giving way. As a Committee, we considered that and took significant legal advice. Our main point, as I mentioned in my speech, was that we wanted to maintain and uphold the importance of our vote in this place. We are not in COVID times now, so the decision was taken to limit proxy voting to very specific purposes that would have the most benefit and the quickest benefit in the House. <BR /> <BR />The Committee will look at long-term illness and other options for proxy voting in the future, but, for now, the Standing Order covers just parental leave at time of birth or when there are fostering responsibilities.”
“I thank the Member very much for her comments so far. I note that Mr McGrath said that we are catching up to the "last century". It is important that we, as the Committee on Procedures, take a family-friendly approach, because, if we do not, we will lose the good people who are in the Chamber today.”
“I will just clarify, if I may, Principal Deputy Speaker, that we advise that Tellers should not be proxy votes.”
“I will also clarify for everyone that the Committee suggests that the duration of application for a proxy vote for parental leave in plenary be a maximum of nine months and that that apply to all categories.”
“The integrity of our voting system was one of our major considerations, and a deadline on the day that a proxy vote was to be exercised, with, perhaps, a vote expected an hour or two later, would leave little time to ensure that all the proper processes were in place and Tellers had been informed. Furthermore, the vast majority of parental leave cases are well known in advance, and most Members who wish to avail themselves of a proxy vote will have ample time to submit a notification. <BR /> <BR />I am just noticing the time, Principal Deputy Speaker. Other matters that the report covers include fostering. We will be the first legislature to bring forward that measure.”
“The Committee's consideration covered the notification process, the eligibility criteria, the duration of parental leave and how a proxy vote may be exercised. <BR /> <BR />First, I will cover the notification process. The Committee suggests that the deadline for notifications should be 4.00 pm on the working day prior to the sitting at which the arrangement is due to begin. The Committee is aware that some Members wanted a later deadline, and we considered that. While a later deadline worked during the COVID-19 pandemic, it was not felt to be appropriate in the post-pandemic environment.”
“They are a recommendation for the removal from office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG) for Northern Ireland, the dissolution of the Assembly, a recommendation for the removal from office of the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman (NIPSO) and a recommendation for the removal of the Assembly Commissioner for Standards. Paragraph (4)(d)(iii) and (iv) are drafted to ensure that, if a similar super-majority provision were included in a future Act, it would be covered by the Standing Order. <BR /> <BR />Finally, paragraph (5) is an interpretation provision. As I mentioned, the Committee was aware that the Standing Order would need to be accompanied by guidance on a range of practical and administrative matters. I intend to use the remainder of my time to cover aspects of those matters.”
“Members will be aware that the first such vote is expected in December, with a vote every four or eight years thereafter, depending on whether the vote receives cross-community support. <BR /> <BR />Paragraph (4)(d) iii and iv relate to votes on motions that either require the support of a number of Members that equals or exceeds two thirds of the total number of seats in the Assembly or require the support of a number of Members that equals or exceeds two thirds of the total number of Members voting on the motion. At the moment, that covers only certain motions, as outlined in detail on page 17 of our report. I will repeat them to ensure that they are read into the record.”