Kellie Armstrong
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the Fisheries, Aquaculture and Water Environment Bill. It is timely and important. Miss McIlveen, a fellow MLA for the Strangford constituency, has just spoken.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill reflects the realities of the post-Brexit landscape by aligning protections here with those in other UK jurisdictions and the UK Fisheries Act. That consistency is important for standards, enforcement and international confidence in our products.”
“Last year, I met the Department and we discussed that. The opportunities for seaweed farming in Strangford lough are wonderful, and the opportunities from seaweed that Queen's University has identified are incredible. We are lucky to have those opportunities on our doorstep, as long as there is licensing and it is properly looked after.”
“Moving beyond managing individual fisheries, the Bill recognises the interconnected nature of our rivers, loughs and seas — an approach that is very much in line with Alliance's commitment to evidence-based environmental policy. The inclusion of a national benefit objective is also significant.”
“A while ago, we saw that commercial bottom trawling had all but decimated the horse mussel population in Strangford lough. It has since been changed to a special area of conservation. That limits a lot of activity in the lough, which is not a bad thing considering that horse mussels are coming back.”
“They allow for timely action on lower-level offences without over-burdening the courts while still acting as a meaningful deterrent. If only everybody were acting properly, we would not need to have those deterrents, but we are where we are, and the Bill hopes to improve upon that.”
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“Instead of the Bill stating that it may consult with "or" somebody else, it will state that it may consult with "and" someone else "if required". <BR /> <BR />One of the main things that I will take from what everyone else has said is that, obviously, there is a difference of opinion in the House. The House will vote on the Bill and on the amendments today, but I highlight the fact that the Minister said in her speech that students get "no tangible benefits" from the Bill. I fail to see that students get no tangible benefits from integrated education. <BR /> <BR />Just to confirm for others, this is the Integrated Education Bill. It does not speak about any other sector because the title of the Bill is as it is. It is the Integrated Education Bill.”
“So it is up to the Department. What I am saying is that, if the Department chooses to consult, it will consult with:”
“I thank Mr Allister for that. I point out to him that it says:”
“That "or" was felt to be disingenuous. It was felt that it meant the advisory body could be set aside and not consulted. That is why it was changed from "or" to "and if required", to allow the Department to make that decision.”
“The current part of the Bill that talks about an advisory body originally said:”
“I will stick to the amendments at hand. Only a few of the Members who stood today asked me questions to answer. I will deal first with the contribution from Mrs Dolores Kelly. On amendment No 1, I absolutely agree with her that if the word "must" applied to any functions, that would have been a concern. However, at Consideration Stage, we changed it to apply to only those in the interest of integrated education, so, hopefully, that will settle her concerns about that. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 2, to remove the word "or" and replace it with "and if required", was tabled because that was brought to my attention. As I have said throughout this whole process, when someone comes to me and they have concerns, and there are amendments that can be made to make better legislation, I will take those forward. I was approached.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Minister is veering into discussing the group 2 amendments, as opposed to discussing the amendments before us. I did not know that what I do on my social media accounts is so important to the Minister.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Minister is rightly debating the Bill. She is now talking about clause 1, however, as opposed to the Further Consideration Stage amendments. I ask that we come back to those.”
“Thank you very much for giving way. I know that we are due to be speaking about the amendments, but, just to be clear, I could not have consulted on the content of the Bill, because that then leaves my hands and goes into the process for the Education Committee to consult on. I consulted on the principles considered in advance of putting forward the Bill for drafting, so the actual Bill was consulted on in the way it is supposed to be: by the House, through the Education Committee.”
“I thank the Member for giving way and for bringing up the point. I would have thought that the Presbyterian Church would have access to the Assembly website and therefore to my contact details, because writing to the 'News Letter' as opposed to the Bill sponsor to try to influence the content of the Bill was not really going to work.”
“I agreed with Mrs Dodds earlier, and I agree with you, that we should not be putting one sector above others. The Bill does not do that, because I have not asked for the Integrated Education Bill to have additional things, such as an employing authority, a planning authority or any of the other mechanisms from which it is currently excluded. The sector does not have the same as every other. We are simply asking that 69 schools have a strategy.”
“Absolutely. Thank you very much for giving way. I am delighted to hear Mrs Dodds say that she is willing for all sectors to be treated exactly the same. I look forward, at some stage, to an authority like the Education Authority or the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS), which are planning and employing authorities, being provided for integrated education, because it does not exist for either integrated or Irish-medium education.”
“That means that the requirement for grant-maintained integrated schools and controlled integrated schools are aligned. <BR /> <BR />By tabling these tidying and technical amendments, I have ensured that the changes discussed with the Department and the OLC on 31 January have been completed and that the appropriate consequential amendments, which would, under normal convention, have been tabled by the Minister, have been introduced.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 23 to 28 are technical amendments that have been discussed with the Department and the OLC. They tidy up references contained in the following articles of the 1989 Order: article 88, the management of controlled integrated schools; articles 71 and 92, both of which deal with proposals for acquisition of integrated status; articles 79 and 97, which deal with significant changes to grant-maintained integrated and controlled integrated schools; and article 81, which covers the withdrawal of grant. <BR /> . <BR />A letter from the Minister, dated 31 January, stated:”
“Amendment Nos 7, 8 and 9 tidy up clause 6, which is the clause added by the Minister at Consideration Stage. The amendments to clause 6 simply add the term "support", a term already agreed and voted for by the House, to the language of the Minister's amendment. I have not changed in any way the intention of the clause as introduced at Consideration Stage and voted for by the House. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 10 is an SDLP amendment, which I will support as it clarifies that the Department, in carrying out its duties in respect of integrated education, shall not prejudice or subordinate its duties to shared education. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 21 gives the Department an enabling power to make by regulation any consequential amendments that may arise.”
“It is a technical amendment to ensure read-across to other legislation. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 4 was also discussed with the Department. It adds explicit confirmation that "support" includes:”
“Amendment Nos 3 and 4 relate to clause 5 and deal with the meaning of support in respect of integrated education. Following the meeting with departmental officials on 31 January, it was agreed in relation to amendment No 3 adding to "reference" to clarify that the meaning of support in relation to integrated education applies to:”
“This means that the Department must consult the advisory body and, if required, any other body that the Department considers appropriate.”
“Following concerns raised in earlier debates regarding the continued need for the Department to consult "the" advisory body for integrated education — I have not mentioned the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education (NICIE) in the Bill because I am not entitled to do so; it is not part of a statutory body — I have proposed to change "may" in line 15 to "must" and to remove "or" in line 17 and insert "and if required".”
“<BR /> <BR />Even though I had asked the Minister to provide the amendments, as is the convention, I could not be sure that the convention would be followed. I therefore engaged a professional drafter, along with the skills of our Bill Office, to bring forward the technical amendments in group 1. I bring to the attention of the House the fact that the amendments were discussed and agreed in principle with the Department and OLC on 31 January. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to the amendments. Amendment Nos 1 and 2 are to clause 3.”
“Realising that a number of consequential amendments to the Bill had not been tabled, I asked the Speaker if I could remove the Further Consideration Stage from the following week's Order Paper in order to give me time either to get the amendments from the Minister or to have the amendments drawn up using a professional drafter. <BR /> <BR />I checked with the Minister again to ask whether she would table the consequential amendments, as discussed on 31 January, and I confirmed that the new deadline for amendments was Friday 18 February. She confirmed that the scheduling of Further Consideration Stage had come at relatively short notice. Subsequently, the consequential amendments were not tabled by the Minister by the second deadline of 9.30 am on Friday 18 February.”
“<BR /> <BR />The deadline for amendments at Further Consideration Stage was 9.30 am on Wednesday 2 February. The time passed, and, when the notice of amendments was published, it was a shock to see that the Minister had not tabled any of the consequential amendments. I reached out to the Minister and to the Department to ask why, and I received an email from the Department that stated:”
“All 16 amendments in group 1 are tidying-up and consequential amendments for the Integrated Education Bill. As others have asked me to, I will explain to the House why I have tabled the amendments and why they have not, in accordance with normal convention, been tabled by the Minister. <BR /> <BR />I was invited by the Minister of Education to meet her departmental officials on 31 January. Also attending the meeting were two representatives of the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC). It was a productive meeting, and the tidying-up and consequential amendments were discussed. It was agreed that I would take forward amendments to clause 6 to tidy it up and that OLC would prepare the consequential amendments for the Department and the Minister.”
“Mr Speaker, I am asking for clarification regarding Standing Order 37 on whether a Minister is required to comply with a rule of law duty to table tidying-up or consequential amendments or if access will be given to a Bill sponsor to appropriate legal advice to enable that Member to table those amendments to put the Bill into good shape. Convention can be and has been ignored. <BR /> <BR />Mr Speaker, the clarification provided on this point of order will have no bearing whatsoever on my private Member's Bill. The Integrated Education Bill is about to have its Further Consideration Stage. However, I feel that it is my moral duty to ask for clarification on the processes for Standing Order 37 on behalf of the Members of this Assembly who may bring forward a private Member's Bill in the future.”
“'Craies on Legislation', which is the authoritative text on the nature, process, effect and interpretation of legislation, says in 5.2.22:”
“The Assembly's publication 'Deconstructing Legislation' states:”
“Mr Speaker, my point of order relates to Standing Order 37, which deals with the Further Consideration Stage of Bills. <BR /> <BR />For my private Member's Bill — the Integrated Education Bill — the Minister has chosen not to follow convention and has not tabled any technical and consequential amendments. Only Ministers have access to the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC). Therefore, I, as the Bill sponsor, was not permitted access to OLC's advice and could not ask that consequential amendments be drafted by it.”
“I just wish that some of the rest of us who have other communication needs were also considered.”
“Quite a lot of what I would like to have come forward from New Decade, New Approach has not moved. However, there was a commitment to Irish and Ulster Scots translation being provided in this place. I cannot wait for the day when we have the translators in place. If, at long last, as someone who has partial hearing, I could have subtitles on one of those screens, I would be delighted, even if they were in English. If they were in Ulster Scots or Irish, I would try my best. Communication in the Building should reflect the needs of the people working here. I am one of those people. There are many others like me in the Building, and we do not get that option. Some say that they are concerned about the amount that will be spent on translating Irish and Ulster Scots. I am delighted that people speak Irish and Ulster Scots.”
“There is concern that Members do not have access to Legal Services, particularly with regard to private Members' Bills. I thought that could have come forward. Perhaps, now that we are coming to the end of a mandate, with so many private Members' Bills at Further Consideration Stage and coming to an end, that issue is just coming to light. <BR /> <BR />There are changed working patterns for staff and Members in this place. I ask that consideration be given to the savings that we can make when staff or Members are not in the Building. <BR /> <BR />Translators for Irish and Ulster Scots were in New Decade, New Approach, as were many other things. Translators happen to be one of them. I can appreciate some saying that this is cherry-picking parts of that agreement.”
“I cannot make a mobile phone call from my allocated office in Parliament Buildings, and Zoom calls can, at best, be intermittent. <BR /> <BR />What appears to be significantly missing from the budget is investment in our Bill Office. As we know, the Bill Office, during this mandate, is coping with an increased number of private Members' Bills, but it is a small team that is coming out of COVID. I do not see that investment in the budget. Perhaps whoever is making the winding-up speech could advise on how that might be funded.”
“The money that was set aside or considered by AERC was based on a level of staffing to provide an effective Opposition in this place. As we have seen in recent weeks, if the mandatory coalition cannot work, perhaps we need to go back to the system of opposition, where the Government are held to account. <BR /> <BR />I will not talk about Members' salary increases or expenses because that just riles the public. I absolutely welcome the fact that Members' staff will now be able to take maternity leave knowing that they are not under pressure to come back to work early and that Members can replace those staff while they are on maternity or paternity leave. <BR /> <BR />I was glad to hear mention of significant improvements for broadband and Wi-Fi in this place. I do not know about the rest of you, but it is horrendous.”
“We are already paying money for sign language translators, but the one place where they are not available is on any of the screens in the Chamber. Translators are in place and available to the outside world, but for those of us in the House who may have hearing impairments and would appreciate sign language, they are not available. That may be something to consider operationally when we talk about translators. <BR /> <BR />I was a member of the Assembly and Executive Review Committee (AERC) when it discussed an Opposition, and Ms Bunting is absolutely right. During considerations in AERC, the financing of an Opposition was not meant to incentivise any party to go into opposition; similarly, it was not there to disincentivise a party from being in opposition.”
“I rise in absolute appreciation of our Assembly secretariat and the work that happens behind the scenes to allow us to work here in the Chamber. It has been an extraordinary time for all the staff. I do not know about the rest of you, but the last six months have been extremely busy, and staff are working extraordinarily long hours. Last week, after 11.00 pm, I spoke to staff who were still busy at work. <BR /> <BR />It was hard to get the papers for today's debate on the Assembly Commission budget. While they were laid in the Business Office, they were not available to all Members. Perhaps the Commission could make sure that that is improved for the future. <BR /> <BR />As an ordinary Member, I will raise a few issues.”
“I agree with what my colleague from Strangford Mr Nesbitt said about a reform of this place, because, while we have Departments working vertically and our systems here working horizontally, we are not able to scrutinise appropriately. We need that cross-departmental sharing of funds in order to deliver an effective programme of delivery for the next three years.”
“That construction programme alone would help our local community to create and maintain jobs and go some way to achieving our environmental targets, while making homes more energy-efficient for residents. To achieve that, Communities needs to be funded. While I accept that money will be tight — it is tight — it will remain financially difficult until such times as the substantial reforms that are needed in the health service are addressed. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, I hope that there will be an Executive after the election, that the Programme for Government will include a housing outcome and that there is agreement for a cross-departmental sharing of funds.”
“<BR /> <BR />This evening, the Budget Bill seeks agreement to provide interim resources and funding for the first few months of the 2022-23 financial year in the form of the Vote on Account. That is equivalent to a total resource requirement of £11·1 billion and a cash requirement of £9·8 billion. I note that the Department for Communities has been awarded £124 million of headroom, £77 million of which is for the thermal insulation for Housing Executive properties, and £47 million for the Housing Executive's tower block programme. That is welcome. Going forward, Communities cannot continue to have to depend on monitoring rounds to supply funds to meet needs. Communities can help our economy through investment, by supporting the build of new homes and by retrofitting the 66,000 Housing Executive homes that are over 40 years old.”
“Their work was and continues to be vital across our community. <BR /> <BR />I will take a moment to confirm that the Department for Communities remains at the front line of the pandemic mitigations. I have heard directly from the Northern Ireland Housing Executive that it will take at least 18 months to recover from the impact on housing that was created by COVID. During the pandemic, significant partnership working enabled many people and families to be housed in temporary accommodation. With that coming to an end, we are facing an increase in the number of people in housing stress being without a permanent home. The situation will need to be financed in order to help some of our most vulnerable citizens. Forty-five per cent will not cut it.”
“That was much needed, as was highlighted earlier in the debate by the Chair of the Committee for Communities. The initial budget for this financial year started much lower than the amount that, I feel, the Department needed to meet its large range of duties. <BR /> <BR />While the Assembly continues to prioritise health and education, our housing stock continues to need to be maintained. The waiting list for homes grows longer, and we still have children and families living in poverty. I recognise that, during the year, there were significant allocations to alleviate pressures that were created by the pandemic. Our councils, the community and voluntary sector, statutory bodies and the Department continued to deliver an incredible service to society as the virus continued to impact all of us.”
“Similarly, the annual uprating of pneumoconiosis — pronouncing that catches out every Chair of every Committee for Communities — which requires the affirmative resolution of the Assembly, will not happen by the end of March 2022. Therefore, it needs to be covered by the Budget Act until such times as the Assembly returns, hopefully after the next election. <BR /> <BR />During this financial year, the Supplementary Estimates reflected the changes to the Budget position for the Department for Communities for 2021-22, which were made in the monitoring rounds and in AME forecasts. As a result of all the changes, there was an increase in the net resource requirement of £109,502,000 and an increase in the net cash requirements of £81,274,000.”
“Overall, in this year's spring Supplementary Estimates, the Department of Finance is proposing an increase in resource DEL of £858 million, or 18·1%, and a decrease in capital DEL of £23·9 million, or -3·4%, when compared with the Main Estimates for this financial year. <BR /> <BR />During the period of these spring Supplementary Estimates, a number of key items were resting on the sole authority of the Budget Act. As party spokesperson for communities, I will speak to the items that relate to the Department for Communities. I support the provisions sought under the authority of the Budget Act to continue for welfare reform mitigations of £37,700,000 until the Welfare Supplementary Payments (Amendment) Bill is passed by the Assembly and achieves Royal Assent.”
“Minister, I will not talk about the Budget for 2022-23 as we are here to discuss the Supply resolutions for the Northern Ireland spring Supplementary Estimates for 2021-22. The 2021-22 Main Estimates were approved by the Assembly in June 2021, and the Budget position to which the Main Estimates were written has since been revised through the in-year monitoring rounds. Most recently, the January monitoring round and its outcome was agreed by the Executive in order to establish the revised departmental spending plans, and those are now reflected in detail in the 2021-22 spring Supplementary Estimates that are before us. <BR /> <BR />I note that there has been an increase in the total net cash requirement of £1·4 billion and in the net resource requirement of £1·61 billion when comparing the Main Estimates provisions.”
“I thank the Minister. I am sure that she is as disappointed as I am that she has not been able to progress the strategy any further, primarily, of course, because of the pandemic. Given that the strategy is not yet ready, does that mean that the childcare strategy budget cannot be allocated or accounted for in the three-year Budget period?”
“I will not take too long, as the Speaker said that he does not want us to talk about Second Stage issues. I support all the group 2 amendments. I thank all those involved. The Bill took a long time to come through, and we are grateful that the Minister and the Department took on all the recommendations. The fact that a Committee member was an electrician meant that we were able to keep on track. As a former National Examination Board in Occupational Safety and Health (NEBOSH)-qualified health and safety officer, I believe that it is vital that we ensure that we protect citizens in private tenancies, especially after Grenfell. I thank the Department and the Minister.”
“Those exemptions are very important. <BR /> <BR />At this stage, that is as much as I need to say. I have difficulties with amendment Nos 15 and 19. I see where they are coming from, but they need to be finessed. Unfortunately, I cannot at this stage support amendment Nos 13 and 16, which were tabled by Mr Carroll. I support the rest of the amendments in group 1.”
“<BR /> <BR />The problem is about finessing the amendments, and I do not know whether it is an option not to move amendment Nos 15 and 19 in order that time can be given and they can be brought back at Further Consideration Stage and tightened up in line with the Minister's intentions. I had expected the Minister to go on ahead with the consultation and then to come back with the Department's amendments to clause 11. We do not have those here, and I would like the Minister to confirm later whether the Department intends to table amendments at Further Consideration Stage. <BR /> <BR />We also need to deal with exemptions. We all have cases of tenants across Northern Ireland who are in difficulties because of a problem tenant. When that happens, the landlord certainly needs to be able to evict in extreme circumstances.”
“<BR /> <BR />In amendment No 16, Mr Carroll wants the notice to quit period to be 12 weeks for anyone who has had a tenancy for 12 weeks. I get that. We have had this throughout coronavirus, but, as has been brought up before, it means that, as the Chair said, a person who has been living somewhere for three months will have the same notice to quit period as someone who has been living somewhere for 12 years. While I can absolutely confirm my frustration about the fact that we need to extend the notice to quit period that landlords give to tenants and the fact that we need to protect tenants who need to move from a home so that they do not have to pay double rents anywhere, I do not think that this is the way to do it.”
“Something like that is easy to understand, but, when you start to talk about 180 days if the tenancy has been in existence for more than three years but not more than seven years and the next thing is 196 days for between seven and eight years, it is too confusing. It is the same with a tenant's notice to quit, where it talks about a number of days without clarifying why those dates and number of days have been chosen. <BR /> <BR />I listened to the debate earlier, and I heard what the Chair of the Committee said. The Committee will have an opportunity to look at this, and I agree with Mr Durkan, who said that amendment Nos 15 and 19 need to be finessed to make them as clear as possible for tenants and landlords in Northern Ireland.”
“What does 224 days mean in terms of months?". It is quite confusing, and it will need considerable changes to people's landlord contracts. <BR /> <BR />While I can absolutely support the intention of the amendment and while the consultation showed that 72% of respondents agreed that the notice to quit should vary depending on the length of tenancy, it is just too confusing. I got access to the consultation document on 15 February, and I read that somebody had put forward in the government response to the notice to quit period that it should be four weeks for nought to one year; six weeks for one to three years; eight weeks for three to five years; and 12 weeks for five to 10 years.”
“As those of us who sit on the Communities Committee know, that issue will be dealt with in the next piece of legislation, when we look at rent caps, but, at the moment, I do not want to have any tenants out there in breach of contract. Unfortunately, on that basis, while I absolutely agree with the sentiment, I cannot support the amendment at this time. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 15 has been tabled by Ciara Ferguson. I get it. I have read the consultation document, and I think that the consultation was very worthwhile. I have to say that the timing was appalling because it kept it outside of the Committee's hands. I looked at Ms Ferguson's amendments and spoke with a renter about them, who said the same thing that I said when I read them. I said, "How confusing is this? What does 196 days mean in terms of months?”