Kellie Armstrong
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the Fisheries, Aquaculture and Water Environment Bill. It is timely and important. Miss McIlveen, a fellow MLA for the Strangford constituency, has just spoken.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill reflects the realities of the post-Brexit landscape by aligning protections here with those in other UK jurisdictions and the UK Fisheries Act. That consistency is important for standards, enforcement and international confidence in our products.”
“Last year, I met the Department and we discussed that. The opportunities for seaweed farming in Strangford lough are wonderful, and the opportunities from seaweed that Queen's University has identified are incredible. We are lucky to have those opportunities on our doorstep, as long as there is licensing and it is properly looked after.”
“Moving beyond managing individual fisheries, the Bill recognises the interconnected nature of our rivers, loughs and seas — an approach that is very much in line with Alliance's commitment to evidence-based environmental policy. The inclusion of a national benefit objective is also significant.”
“A while ago, we saw that commercial bottom trawling had all but decimated the horse mussel population in Strangford lough. It has since been changed to a special area of conservation. That limits a lot of activity in the lough, which is not a bad thing considering that horse mussels are coming back.”
“They allow for timely action on lower-level offences without over-burdening the courts while still acting as a meaningful deterrent. If only everybody were acting properly, we would not need to have those deterrents, but we are where we are, and the Bill hopes to improve upon that.”
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“In keeping with convention, I will take the opportunity to say a few words of thanks to those who have helped me along the way: in the private Member's Bill unit, James Gilsenan and Denise Morgan; in the Bill Office, Caroline Perry, who has been instrumental in making sure the Bill has got this far; in the Education Committee, the Chair, Chris Lyttle, the Clerk, Aoibhinn Treanor, and all the members; the political parties and members who have taken time to engage; the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education (NICIE); the Integrated Education Fund (IEF); AlumNI; the Association of Principals in Integrated Schools (APTIS); and everyone who took the time to respond to my consultation or to the Education Committee's consultation. <BR /> <BR />Mr Speaker, I thank you and your office.”
“The Final Stage of a Bill is the last debate when the House discusses why a Bill should or should not pass. We have already debated at length the content and detail of the Bill, so there is no need to rehash amendments won and lost.”
“The Minister has outlined her intention for a second piece of work that deals with those issues to be carried forward into the next mandate. Online gambling is a key area that we need to manage, as it is recognised as a key issue in gambling-related harm. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Alliance Party, I support the Bill and look forward to working on the next Bill in order to continue to deliver a safer betting, gaming, lotteries and amusements industry.”
“A licence- or permit-holding operator who ignores or claims lack of knowledge of the codes will have no excuse. The codes are also available for the public to review and use as a basis for lodging a complaint. It is important to note that continuing breaches of a code are grounds for revocation of a licence and/or a permit. <BR /> <BR />The Bill updates the legislation to permit gambling on Sundays, clarifies the rules about pool betting and who can participate in bingo and places more emphasis on protecting people under 18 from gambling. The legislation limits charges and prizes and provides clarification on the rules for societies' lotteries, cheating and the enforceability of gambling contracts. <BR /> <BR />As others have said, the Bill does not deal with online gambling or any issues related to the National Lottery.”
“I thank Gambling with Lives for its very insightful evidence and, at times, harrowing accounts of the impact that gambling addiction has on individuals and their family and friends. <BR /> <BR />The legislation requires the Department to issue codes of practice for the industry. The codes of practice place an expected duty of care on those using facilities to ensure that gambling is conducted in a fair and open way, to protect persons under the age of 18 and other vulnerable persons from being harmed or exploited by gambling and to make assistance available to persons who are or may be affected by problems related to gambling. Those codes do not, in and of themselves, make a person liable for criminal or civil proceedings but are admissible in evidence in criminal or civil proceedings and must be taken into account by a court or tribunal.”
“The industry levy, therefore, as outlined in clause 15, will require all who operate as a bookmaker, a bookmaker's office or a bingo club or who have gaming machines or an amusement permit to pay an industry levy in order to support projects and activities related to gambling addiction or associated forms of harm and exploitation, including treatment, education and research. <BR /> <BR />The levy will be consulted on, and the consultation will include persons who have experience or knowledge of issues relating to such addiction, harm or exploitation. That means that those who are affected by gambling addiction and their family and friends will be consulted. That is a very welcome step, and it is one that the Committee encouraged the Department to include.”
“Today sees the Final Stage of the Betting, Gaming, Lotteries and Amusements (Amendment) Bill, and I thank the Minister and her Department for bringing it this far. As others have said, it provides for the most substantial change to gambling law here in 40 years. We on the Committee for Communities listened to people impacted by gambling addiction, businesses that work in the sector and charities, sports clubs and other voluntary organisations that raise much-needed funds for good causes through gambling and lotteries. <BR /> <BR />A key element of the Bill is the recognition that gambling can cause harm.”
“I thank the Minister for her response. Minister, on, I think, 24 February, you announced the launch of labour market partnerships (LMPs) for council areas. Can you confirm how those new labour market partnerships will work with our jobs and benefits offices?”
“As I said, on behalf of Alliance, I support the amendments. They would achieve a lot of the clarifications that we required at Consideration Stage. They would also achieve some of what Mr Carroll wants. Maybe it will not happen as straightforwardly as he wanted, but the wider public will be able to respond to the consultation with what they think about the rents. For now, I am happy to support the Minister.”
“We cannot make people completely homeless. I would like to think that, in any future consideration of notices to quit, we will consider what to do with people who would be exempt and, because of their actions, who may find themselves out of statutory or private accommodation outside of social sector accommodation. Such people are usually involved with the health service or other services.”
“With the amendment, we have in clause 11 a new way of wording notices to quit that is easier for tenants and landlords to understand. <BR /> <BR />It is appropriate that there are exemptions from the notices to quit. I see the situation the other way around. I think about older people or people with disabilities who, when they give notice to quit or have been given notice to quit, need to find an alternative place to live that will suit their needs, which may take a longer time. I have concerns, however. There are people out there who, through antisocial behaviour or other reasons, may fall foul of those exemptions and may be evicted. <BR /> <BR />One thing that we have to consider, even though it concerns a very small number of people in Northern Ireland, is that we cannot put people out on the streets.”
“As the Minister said, the Bill will be the first part of a larger piece of legislation that will come forward in the next mandate. <BR /> <BR />There are very good things for tenants in the Bill: it limits the amount of deposit that can be asked for; it limits the amount of times that rents can be increased; and it provides for better standards on electricity and health and safety in the properties where tenants live. <BR /> <BR />I am absolutely delighted with the amendments to clause 7 that the Department has tabled. I am also very pleased with amendment No 5, because it simplifies the amendment that Ms Ferguson tabled. I was delighted to hear that Ms Ferguson had worked with the Department on that amendment, because, when I spoke to renters and we talked about the number of days for notice to quit, they were as confused as I was.”
“As the Chair of the Committee mentioned, members of the Committee pulled together some amendments to try to save the Bill, but, thankfully, the Minister and her team had already done that. We were delighted to see that the amendments had been tabled. <BR /> <BR />I will give heart to Mr Carroll, however. He looked for a rent decrease; he will now have a consultation on that rent decrease. That has not disappeared completely, as there will be a consultation. <BR /> <BR />An effect of Consideration Stage was that I was made aware of a number of landlords who had already contacted their tenants to tell them that they were putting their rent up in advance of the Bill receiving Royal Assent, because they could not afford the 10% reduction that had been put in by an amendment at Consideration Stage. Consultation is the right way to go.”
“On behalf of the Alliance Party, I will support the Minister's amendments. As she said, they will bring the Bill back into legal competence. There is too much in the Bill, for tenants and for landlords, to allow it to fall. <BR /> <BR />Like many others, I was contacted after Consideration Stage by renters and by housing rights and other organisations. They were in a blind panic about the amendments, because they realised that Mr Carroll's amendment was not, unfortunately, legally competent and that it would, therefore, bring the Bill into difficulties, so that it would not be able to go forward after Final Stage. Therefore, they asked for the amendments.”
“<BR /> <BR />While trustees of pension schemes are already required to consider all financially material risks as part of their fiduciary duty, the Government are seeking to strengthen and clarify the focus on climate change by proposing steps to require increased analysis and consideration of climate change to be embedded in the decision-making process of trustees, as well as requiring the disclosure of climate risk information. On that basis, the Alliance Party is absolutely behind the Minister in bringing forward this legislation.”
“Climate change is expected to have a significant impact on pension schemes' assets due to the physical risk associated with a warmer planet and the transition risk that movement towards a low-carbon economy brings in the form of lower valuations of many sectors across the economy. As long-term investors, pension scheme trustees should be especially alive to those risks. At present, evidence suggests that the market does not fully price in climate risk, meaning that many assets that pension schemes hold may be mispriced. As a result, there is a risk that, without intervention, members of pension schemes may be overexposed to the financially material risks of climate change, which ultimately impacts their expected outcomes in retirement.”
“We have heard that there may well be an opportunity for the Executive to bring forward their report quickly. There is little time left in the mandate. It will be up to the Business Committee and the Speaker to decide whether there is room on the agenda for the Bill to pass by the end of March. I sincerely hope that it does. On behalf of my family members and friends who are teachers, I say that the Bill gives them the protection that I had as an employee, that my employees have and that many employees have, including, for instance, people who work in the Assembly. Why should teachers not have that protection, too? I absolutely welcome Chris's work on that. I welcome the change of heart that has taken place with some of the organisations that have an interest. It is right and proper that we have that change at this time.”
“Like others, I will not speak for too long. The planets appear to have aligned on the Bill. I congratulate Christopher Lyttle MLA for bringing forward the Fair Employment (School Teachers) Bill. It is certainly a short Bill, with only four clauses. It has been extremely well drafted. As the Bill sponsor confirmed, it will ensure that teachers are included in the Fair Employment and Treatment Order, giving all teachers the same protection as all other employees. As we heard from Mr Sheehan, it updates the practices that relate to teachers in line with what is happening in schools today. I do not believe that any sectors have been using discriminatory practices when employing teachers, so why should we still have something in legislation that is not being used? It is right and proper that it is not. <BR /> <BR />Today is 2 March.”
“There is not much more to say on this, other than that the Alliance Party will be supporting the motions that have been tabled this evening.”
“<BR /> <BR />As Mrs Barton spelled out, there are a number of proposed amendments on when the Opposition will be able to speak. There will be Opposition days and so on. I point out that the AERC, under recommendation 3 in its report, said that the process should be reviewed after two years to ensure that it is working appropriately. <BR /> <BR />I am delighted to say, Mr Speaker, that this is a huge step forward to having an effective Opposition in this place. As you will know — I have spoken about it before — the Alliance Party position is that we do not require mandatory coalition and should be looking at voluntary coalition, and one of the effective ways in which we can hold the Government to account is through having an effective Opposition. The motions to amend Standing Orders before us certainly represent a way forward.”
“I will not repeat some of the points that Rosemary Barton made, because she summarised very well the motions to amend before us this evening. <BR /> <BR />As we know, on 9 November 2021, the Assembly noted the outcome of the independent review of the adequacy and effectiveness of the statement of entitlements for an official Opposition. That was brought by the AERC, of which I am a member. The proposed amendments to Standing Orders are part of the outworkings of that report and have been brought today by the Committee on Procedures. I thank the Committee very much for doing such quick work. As the Committee Chair said, that Committee is dealing with an awful lot of business, as most Committees are, so I thank the Committee on Procedures for its timely work on the amendments.”
“That advisory panel may well bring forward recommendations to further improve the support that families across Northern Ireland need. For now, we have done a good deed here. I thank the Minister and all the people in the background who have worked on the Bill, whether they were in the Department or the Bill Office. It has been a long time coming, but the Minister is absolutely right: we have ended the bedroom tax.”
“The Chair mentioned in her Second Stage speech that we were briefed by the Cliff Edge Coalition on welfare reform mitigations and the difficulties that families were facing. I hope that the fact that the Bill has progressed quickly will bring that group and the families who are affected some comfort and reassurance. I look forward to its implementation. <BR /> <BR />As Alliance's spokesperson on communities, I will add quickly that my party absolutely supports the Bill. At Second Stage, I certainly raised concern about a cliff edge being created by an end date. I am delighted that the amendments that were made will see an end to that. I am also acutely aware that the advisory panel has still not brought forward its recommendations.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee also welcomes the fact that the Bill will require the Department to monitor and report on the operation of the mitigation schemes in order that we can evaluate the ongoing need for the schemes or the need for new schemes in the future. It is also good that that will include a view on the provision of extension beyond March 2025 of those schemes other than the social sector size criteria. The Committee will include those matters in its legacy report for a new Committee to scrutinise and will highlight the need to consider the report of the independent advisory panel. <BR /> <BR />The Bill will have a direct impact on around 36,000 households. It is, therefore, welcome that the legislation has reached this stage in such a swift manner, as it will ensure that there is no negative impact on those households.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. As was stated at Second Stage, the Committee has taken a consistent interest in welfare reform mitigations. It has been a long and, at times, frustrating road. However, on behalf of the Committee for Communities, I welcome the Bill's Final Stage. <BR /> <BR />You will be glad that I will keep my comments to a minimum, Mr Deputy Speaker, as the Committee's thoughts at Second Stage highlighted the many times that the Committee discussed the issues, wrote to the Minister and wrote to the Executive in support of the Minister. We welcome the fact that the Bill now has no new end date for the social sector size criteria mitigation payments, as that will ensure that we do not reach a cliff edge again for those payments and should provide reassurance to the most vulnerable people in society.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I just want to clarify that, over the past couple of years, with COVID, those young members entering the profession have lived on Zoom and other online platforms, including throughout their university careers. <BR /> <BR />Will the Member outline how many appeals have been taken because of court systems happening through online provisions?”
“In the long term, it would be great to make such technology available permanently when other legislation is brought forward. Given the fact that the extension will come to an end, I ask the Minister what it will mean if there is no Executive or Assembly at that time. We all know that live links are an important tool to make courts' business faster and more efficient and to reduce our carbon footprint. We will always be cognisant of the need for open justice and, indeed, of any barriers to the use of technology. Therefore, I am satisfied that court users who cannot or do not wish to use live links will not be made to do so. <BR /> <BR />As I said, on behalf of Alliance, I will support the legislation. I ask others to do so.”
“On behalf of the Alliance Party, I support the Minister and agree to her request for the approval of the Coronavirus Act 2020 (Extension of Provisions Related to Courts, Tribunals and Inquests) Order (Northern Ireland) 2022 — that is a mouthful — which deals with live links and inquests. As the Minister highlighted, section 32 of the Act gives the power to allow a coroner to deviate from normal requirements. It is not intended to be permanent, and the coroner retains discretion to conduct an inquest with a jury where they believe that it is appropriate in the circumstances. <BR /> <BR />The article 3 provisions on live links are part of a wider programme of modernisation in our courts. Keeping people safe during COVID has accelerated the use of technology.”
“Minister, your announcement is very welcome. We had an idea that the payment was going to be made to people in mid-March, and you have delivered on that. <BR /> <BR />With the Bryson scheme, oil companies, in particular, are charging beneficiaries £20 on top of their fuel costs just for a delivery. That will also happen with the energy payment scheme. Can you do anything to address that misuse of public money?”
“Thank you very much to the Minister for that. I am sorry you were cut off in full flow. <BR /> <BR />Pupils from local schools in my area have been out beach walking in the past few weeks. In the area of biodiversity, over 2,000 types of marine species live in Strangford lough. What progress has the Minister's Department made during the mandate to protect important marine life and their habitats?”
“The Committee heard that, for consistency, the proposed amendment extends that explicit basis to include bingo clubs, registered clubs and lotteries. The Committee supports amendment No 2. <BR /> <BR />I will conclude by stating again for the record that the Committee would have wished to see a more ambitious Bill in this mandate. However, it is aware that the outcome of reviews of gambling legislation in neighbouring jurisdictions will provide valuable information to inform the second phase of reforms here. <BR /> <BR />As Alliance communities spokesperson, I am very pleased to see that, in amendment No 2, article 28(1) has been included, as was brought up at Consideration Stage. The Alliance Party supports the Minister's amendments at Further Consideration Stage.”
“The Committee supports amendment No 1. <BR /> <BR />With regard to amendment No 2, the Committee, at its meeting on 24 February, was advised that the amendment proposes to change the wording of one of the amendments made at Consideration Stage to clause 15 on the codes of practice. We were advised that the amendment inserts a new provision in every article of the 1985 Order that expressly deals with the procedures for revoking or renewing licences, certificates and permits. It also establishes a more explicit basis for revoking or refusing to renew gambling licences, certificates or permits in instances of serious, continuing or multiple breaches of one or more of the departmental codes of practice.”
“With regard to amendment No 1 on gaming machines, the Committee was advised that proposed new clause 7A will allow the Department to prescribe either the same or, if necessary, different stakes and prize limits for gaming machines according to the premises in which they are located, whether that be a betting shop, bingo club, pub, amusement arcade etc. The Committee was assured that the amendment does not change the type of premises that can apply for a gaming machine certificate. We were also assured that it does not alter any of the stakes and prize limits for gaming machines that currently apply to those premises under the 1985 Order. The Committee was pleased to hear that any changes to those limits will be made at a later date using secondary legislation and by affirmative resolution to allow for the appropriate scrutiny.”
“On behalf of the Committee for Communities, I welcome the Bill's Further Consideration Stage. You will be glad to hear that I will keep my comments to a minimum, as the Chair of the Committee outlined the Committee's deliberations and views at Consideration Stage. The Chair also highlighted that, through the substantial number of comments and recommendations in our report, we dealt with many of the important but wider issues brought to the Committee in evidence. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the Minister's proposed amendments on gaming machines and the code of practice. The Committee was aware of concerns from the Northern Ireland Amusement Caterers Trade Association (NIACTA) about gaming machines. We requested a briefing on the amendments from the Department at our meeting on 24 February.”
“I thank the Minister for the work that she does in the area of modern slavery and human trafficking provisions, and I pay tribute to Invisible Traffick, which works so hard in my constituency. Does the Minister share my concerns that the UK's Government's hostile environment policies, including the ban on work for those seeking asylum, risk further marginalising vulnerable people and leaving them at risk of exploitation through modern slavery or trafficking?”
“Minister, the Finance Minister stated last week that the Department of Justice's baseline would actually increase under the proposed draft Budget. Can you clarify that, please?”
“Given that no Executive can meet now and, if the rumours are true, no Executive will be able to meet for some time after the election, is the Minister considering setting up an infrastructure advisory panel as an interim option to achieve some of the objectives that would have been delivered by an infrastructure commission?”
“I thank the Minister. You said, Minister, that many people thought clearly about how they would spend their card. In my constituency of Strangford, many spent their card on electricity and gas or oil for home heating. Will that spend on electricity and home heating oil or gas be included in the granularity of the detail that you provide about where the spend was made?”
“The SDLP has said that it will not move amendment Nos 19 and 20. <BR /> <BR />I thank everyone for their amendments. They have certainly helped me. I worked with others on some of the amendments. I am delighted that the Minister, the DUP and the Ulster Unionists are taking part in the democratic process today. I can only hope that the threat from parties that do not seem to be getting their way to use a petition of concern to remove the democratic vote from the Final Stage of the Bill will not come to pass.”
“I absolutely agree with you. It is shocking. <BR /> <BR />Mr Aiken said that amendment No 17 will not be moved. I have to say that, when I spoke to Mr Butler about that amendment, I wondered why the Department would not have due regard to the Assembly or a Committee of the Assembly. I said to Mr Butler — I think that this shocked him — that, at long last, recommendations of the Assembly and Committees would legally be required, under that amendment, to be taken forward. There have been so many recommendations on integrated education over the years, and it would be nice to see them moved forward. Amendment No 17 will not be moved, however. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 18 adds "inclusive and diverse classes" after "diversity", and I absolutely agree with Mr McNulty: why not put it in? It gives clarification and can only help.”
“and then it lists what they may refer to, including paragraphs (c) and (d), which the Ulster Unionists would like to remove from the Bill. To be honest, if those paragraphs are removed, the Department can bring targets and benchmarks for those numbers of schools and new integrated schools back in again anyway. I do not agree with the Ulster Unionists, because I think that any approach to counting and including data is important.”
“The Department already has to comply with section 75. I was therefore a bit confused by that. I have no issue, to be honest, with its being included, but I think that amendment No 13 could lead to a judicial review, because, if the Department has to take section 75 into consideration for integrated education, I can imagine that the family of a child who wishes to get into a maintained school but does not get in will be looking to section 75 to see how that decision was taken. The amendment does not add to or detract from the Bill, however. <BR /> <BR />I oppose amendment Nos 15 and 16. We hear every day in the House about how data is so important. I will bring Members back to the Bill as amended at Consideration Stage. Clause 9(3), which deals with the integrated education strategy, states:”
“Amendment No 12 is in Robbie Butler's name, but I believe that Mr Aiken will move it. I do not support it, because I believe that changing "must" to "may" waters down the provisions in the strategy that we are trying to bring in. <BR /> <BR />On amendment No 13, I agree with Dolores Kelly, who talked about adding the new paragraph requiring the Department to:”
“Protecting unsustainable schools in any sector is not workable, so I will support amendment Nos 5 and 6. They are sensible, and I thank the Ulster Unionists for tabling them. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 11 from the SDLP confused me slightly. However, I was delighted to be able to speak to the SDLP on the matter, and I now get it absolutely. We do not want to have the issue of an Irish-medium school that is being taken forward being confused with the consultation. My confusion was not with the wording; it was that, when I met the Department, it said that the education bodies as now defined by the Minister's amendment — the Department of Education and the Education Authority — do not take forward any other schools such as Irish-medium schools. However, I will absolutely support that.”
“Before I move on to the amendments, it would be worthwhile to put on the record the percentages of all places in schools that are unfilled, just so that the House knows. In 2021, 12·4% of places in integrated primary schools were unfilled; in non-integrated primary schools, the figure was 19·4%; in integrated post-primary schools, it was 10·3%; and in non-integrated post-primary schools, it was 14·7%. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the amendments. To be honest — I said this to Mr Butler — I am delighted that amendment Nos 5 and 6 would add:”
“Thank you very much for giving way. Throughout this debate and other debates, there has been an assertion that the term "integrated schools" can be applied to anything. Does the Member agree that, in the 1989 Order, it states that, to be deemed an integrated school, the Department requires schools to go through the transformation process or to become a grant-maintained integrated school? <BR /> <BR />It is laid down in the 1989 Order that only those schools that achieve and complete that status can legally be called integrated schools, while others use that term. Sharing is absolutely wonderful, and super-mixed schools are fantastic, but does the Member agree that the 1989 Order defines what an integrated school is after it has completed a process?”
“When I met Mr Butler to discuss that, I highlighted my concern about any child who achieves a place at an integrated school following, for instance, a temporary variation as an outcome of the integrated education strategy. Does it mean that, as soon as that child goes through the doors of the school and the common funding formula is used to fund that child, it breaks with this? Does it mean that integrated education is detrimental to other education sectors? I am concerned that such a wide-ranging subsection being added would have other unintended consequences.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I have read the amendment with interest and seek clarification. Amendment No 14 states:”
“I thank the Member for that intervention. As the Bill sponsor, I have tabled the amendments that I spoke to the Department and the Office of the Legislative Counsel about on 31 January. I believe that the drafting and the work of the Bill Office on this is good. I will not criticise it as others have done.”
“If anyone feels that another sector in Northern Ireland is not being treated equally, they can, as I have done as a private Member, introduce a Bill. For today, I am finished with the group 1 amendments.”