Kellie Armstrong
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the Fisheries, Aquaculture and Water Environment Bill. It is timely and important. Miss McIlveen, a fellow MLA for the Strangford constituency, has just spoken.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill reflects the realities of the post-Brexit landscape by aligning protections here with those in other UK jurisdictions and the UK Fisheries Act. That consistency is important for standards, enforcement and international confidence in our products.”
“Last year, I met the Department and we discussed that. The opportunities for seaweed farming in Strangford lough are wonderful, and the opportunities from seaweed that Queen's University has identified are incredible. We are lucky to have those opportunities on our doorstep, as long as there is licensing and it is properly looked after.”
“Moving beyond managing individual fisheries, the Bill recognises the interconnected nature of our rivers, loughs and seas — an approach that is very much in line with Alliance's commitment to evidence-based environmental policy. The inclusion of a national benefit objective is also significant.”
“A while ago, we saw that commercial bottom trawling had all but decimated the horse mussel population in Strangford lough. It has since been changed to a special area of conservation. That limits a lot of activity in the lough, which is not a bad thing considering that horse mussels are coming back.”
“They allow for timely action on lower-level offences without over-burdening the courts while still acting as a meaningful deterrent. If only everybody were acting properly, we would not need to have those deterrents, but we are where we are, and the Bill hopes to improve upon that.”
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“<BR /> <BR />Checks and balances should be introduced to ensure that smaller parties and individual Members are not discriminated against — for example, allowing a Member to introduce at least one private Member's Bill per mandate. The capacity and ability for Members to bring forward legislation must be balanced against the need to allocate time for Executive legislation. The lack of such legislation from certain Ministers has been notable in the current and previous mandates; hence, perhaps, the focus on private Members' Bills. <BR /> <BR />To make the best use of private Members' Bills, it is important that consideration be given to how to differentiate between those seeking to legislate —”
“The actual process is that, once a private Member's Bill is published and has been through introduction, it goes through the processes of the House, and the relevant Committee completes scrutiny. A second scrutiny stage is not completed or required to be completed by the Bill sponsor. <BR /> <BR />With an unlimited number of private Members' Bills available to come before the Assembly, there is the potential for a huge amount of business time to be devoted to this area. We propose that a ballot system, such as in the Welsh Parliament, be introduced but with a more generous allocation than the Senedd, where the Bills ballot permits only 20 Members to bring forward a Bill within a mandate.”
“The supported private Members' Bill service will ensure that that takes place for all private Members' Bills. We advocate that the outcomes of all consultations be formally documented in an agreed manner, detailing feedback and how it was dealt with. We already have Committee reports detailing their scrutiny. It makes sense, therefore, that Bill sponsors should have to produce a report confirming how they completed scrutiny in advance of drafting. <BR /> <BR />There needs to be clarification if a Bill sponsor has to consult again after a Bill has been drafted and published. My experience was that Bill sponsors are criticised for a consultation stage that some Ministers and Members appear to think is part of a process when it is not.”
“Therefore, it is vital that all Members are provided with clear and unambiguous written clarification confirming the processes that any Bill has to go through before it gets to the Floor and while it is going through the legislative process of the Assembly. That is why Alliance absolutely supports recommendation 3. <BR /> <BR />Much of the time of the Assembly and Committees is taken up amending Bills, especially privately drafted Bills. Alliance supports the recommendation that all private Members' Bills must go through the supported private Members' Bill service, as that will ensure that Assembly and Committee time is used most effectively. <BR /> <BR />It is vital that all private Members' Bills undertake a period of consultation before being tabled.”
“As part of a consultation exercise, it should be a mandatory requirement for engagement with the Minister and officials of the relevant Department and, where necessary, multiple Ministers and officials should the proposed Bill cross over more than one Department. In addition to that, the consultation should include the Human Rights Commission and the Equality Commission. If a Bill is to be brought to the Assembly Floor, it is vital that those groups be consulted. <BR /> <BR />Having been through the private Members' Bill service, I think that it is extremely concerning that some Ministers and parties call Bills flawed and claim that they were not consulted on, even though those Bills went through hours of expensive and extensive private Members' Bill service and were worked on by professional drafters and Assembly staff.”
“It is vital that the private Members' Bill service enables access to the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC) for Bill sponsors. If the OLC is the gold standard of legislative advice and input, why would we not provide access to it for a Bill sponsor? Why does a Bill sponsor have to depend on convention and the will of a Minister to take forward any OLC consequential amendments?”
“I thank the Chair and Committee on Procedures for their work on this important matter. Alliance believes passionately in Members being able to introduce legislation and the importance of ensuring good law. <BR /> <BR />We are incredibly fortunate to have the non-Executive Bills unit in the Assembly as an excellent resource to ensure that robust legislation is proposed. To that end, Alliance supports making it mandatory for all private Members' Bills to go through the supported private Members' Bill service, including privately drafted Bills. That will ensure the drafting of robust legislation with mandatory consultation.”
“None of us take it lightly when our vote is exercised by a proxy. When we vote, we ensure that we know what we are voting for and why we vote for it. It is right and proper that the Committee has put it in its legacy report that immediate and urgent consideration of the matters in Standing Orders 110 to 116 are considered as soon as possible in the new mandate.”
“I thank the Chair and the Committee on Procedures for taking forward the proposal. As a Member who is using the Standing Orders to attend remotely today, I know that COVID has not gone away. Those of us who catch COVID and are, unfortunately, not able to be in the Chamber can, fortunately, at least take part in proceedings. The Alliance Party will support the extension of Standing Orders 110 to 116 — the temporary provisions — until the end of July 2022. <BR /> <BR />I noted what the Chair said about the Committee's giving the matter consideration. It is right for the Committee on Procedures to do so. We know from the renewable heat incentive (RHI) inquiry that scrutiny is important.”
“It seems unusual that, for those who are "Other", if the numbers are there, you can be a First Minister but not a deputy First Minister. On the first day, when the political designations are counted, it is right and proper, for the reasons that the Chair has pointed out, that, if someone is not available, they can have their designation recorded. However, while we in Alliance accept that change, we are extraordinarily disappointed that, yet again, those who designate as "Other" are being treated as something different and that the issues that were brought forward in the St Andrews Agreement have still not been dealt with.”
“I thank the Chair and the Committee on Procedures for tabling the change. As the Chair has set out, there are changes to Standing Order 3, and the changes to Standing Order 4 are consequential to those. While the Alliance Party supports the change, it does not resolve the big, glaringly obvious issue created by the St Andrews Agreement that designation is fine and dandy if you are a nationalist or a unionist, but, if you are "Other", it does not effect the change that is needed. That is because, should those in the "Other" designation have the numbers to nominate a deputy First Minister, they are barred from doing so because they are not "Nationalist" or "Unionist". That has been an ongoing issue in the Assembly and will continue to be so in the next mandate.”
“The Pensions Regulator has faced difficulties in forecasting the medium- and long-term performance of businesses for the purposes of the existing material detriment test. That has been because of the need to extrapolate performance into the future amid the uncertainty and challenges that exist. The employer resources test is designed to assess that on the basis of a snapshot, thereby removing the need to forecast how employers might perform in the future, absent to the act or failure to the act. We support the legislation.”
“Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I forgive you completely. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of Alliance, I support the passing of the Minister's legislation. The legislation makes technical changes to the contribution notice and provides the Pensions Regulator with the tool to simplify the process to assess employers' resources. <BR /> <BR />The sponsoring employer of a defined pensions benefits scheme is responsible for ensuring that the scheme is adequately funded to pay members' pensions when they fall due. The Pensions Regulator has oversight of occupational pensions and, where necessary, can take action to safeguard pension scheme members under pensions legislation. <BR /> <BR />The regulations introduce two additional tests to the contribution notice regime, one of which is the employer resources test.”
“For now, all I will say is that the democratic process will be followed today: those who support the Bill will vote for it; those who oppose it will not vote for it. I ask Members to agree that the Integrated Education Bill do now pass.”
“We need a single education system in Northern Ireland. Honestly, going by the debates that I have heard, I would expect the DUP to put in another petition of concern to stop a single education system Bill going through, because the DUP is not ready to have children educated together.”
“Legal advice that is provided to a Committee is privileged, so I did not know that. It is up to you whether you want to quote that in the House. <BR /> <BR />The Bill does not do what other people claim that it does, which is to erode and take away from other sectors. For instance, the controlled sector has the Education Authority and the maintained sector has CCMS. They are both employing authorities and planning authorities. Where are the employing authorities and planning authorities for integrated education and the Irish-medium sector? Those sectors do not have any. They sit around the area-planning table as one voice in a group of very many who have vested interests. <BR /> <BR />I respect the different sectors in Northern Ireland. I just wish that they would respect all sectors instead of seeing them as competition.”
“Far too many sectoral bodies are taking money out of front-line education provision. <BR /> <BR />Some have said to me that a private Member's Bill should not be so complicated and that I should not have sponsored it. Mr Newton said that the private Member's Bill should not be here. However, if I had sponsored a Bill for a single education system, everyone would have lost their minds. Instead, I tried to protect the integrated education sector. <BR /> <BR />The integrated education sector is small. It works extremely hard —”
“What I heard when I met the CSSC and the CCMS was completely different to what was in the letter that has been circulated by them. I am very disappointed that those with a vested interest would not want integrated education to be supported. It is another education sector and one of the four in Northern Ireland. I have to ask why. <BR /> <BR />Is it because, instead of supporting parental preference, as we all have done because we know that we have education sectors, those vested interests know that every child or parent who chooses to go to a different type of school than theirs means that an amount of money will go into a different sector? If so, that is very sad. Instead of supporting parental preference, it is seen as competition. That is why we need to move towards a single education system.”
“Thank you, Mr Carroll. To be honest, I was not expecting to be provided with the legal advice to which the Minister has access, because her access to legal advice is privileged. As an ordinary Member of the House, I am not entitled to that, and neither is anyone else. Therefore, no one can say what is in that advice or whether what we have been told is right or wrong. <BR /> <BR />In the Bill, I have tried to support integrated education. As Ms Sugden said — she was right — I have not tried to undermine any other sector. However, the fact that integrated schools comprise 69 of the 1,091 schools in Northern Ireland confirms that, even if their numbers were to double overnight, they would still be a minority in the education system. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate that the Bill has caused emotional upset to a lot of people.”
“I have been quite careful in the drafting of the Bill. I spoke to professional drafters, and I used the resources of the Bill Office, who are professional people. Yet, all along, all that I heard was that the legislation is flawed.”
“So far, the Department has not carried out its duty, so I have asked for support, and I have defined what that support would be. In fact, as Mr Carroll pointed out, what I originally intended in the Bill has been watered down to an "aim to meet" need, not must meet need.”
“No, I will not, sorry. <BR /> <BR />Organic integration is not working. The encouragement and facilitation that has been a duty of the Department for decades has not worked. <BR /> <BR />I am not saying that schools will heal all ills in society, and I am not saying that schools are the cause of division in society. I am definitely not saying that. I am reflecting the power of schools to bring people together and create a school community that is diverse and inclusive, and integrated schools do that. Others do not seem to appreciate that I am trying to establish equity through the Bill. The integrated education sector within the education sector is a minority. There are a small number of schools. To be fair, the Irish-medium sector is even smaller.”
“Organic integration has resulted in 83 schools achieving 10% mixing.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />As I said, a single education system is something that we would all like to aspire to. However, we have all seen, through the process of this Bill, how much parties are not ready for a single education system. The fact that the DUP was willing to put down a petition of concern to attack a minority part of education says a lot.”
“Indeed, one of the clauses was brought forward by the Minister at Further Consideration Stage, so the Department has its fingerprints on the Bill. The Bill has changed and developed. The officials in the Box are having a chat. I can lip-read what you are saying: you did have influence on the Bill. This —”
“<BR /> <BR />I had some quite difficult meetings with the SDLP. I did beg several dozen times for us to have meetings, but we got there, and it tabled amendments, so its fingerprints are on the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Not every amendment that was proposed by the Ulster Unionists was turned down. The House voted for some of those, so the Ulster Unionists certainly have their fingerprints on the Bill.”
“In fact, if anybody wanted to look at the documents that are in this Building, they would see that the original intention of the Bill was changed after consultation and before it got to drafting. I did listen to people, and everyone had the opportunity to contribute to that. <BR /> <BR />Then, when it came to drafting the Bill, I said that anybody who wanted to work with me on the Bill could do so, and I held to my word. I have to commend Sinn Féin. I did not expect it, but we worked extremely hard, and I have to thank Sinn Féin members and their back office staff, including Patrick, for the work that they did. There were difficult meetings. There were meetings when I came out and said, "Oh, my goodness, are we ever going to see the light of day with this Bill?", but I thank them for that.”
“It is not about any other sector, because, at this stage, we have four sectors of education. Integrated education makes up 7% of the pupil population. It is a minority within the education system, just as the Irish-medium sector is. I have faced allegations of being sectarian and, by some principals, of being threatened to be excommunicated from the Church. I had people ask me not to return to Mass and had local people say to me that they would rather see me out of my house and out of the area. That is all because of the misinformation that was shared about the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Some said that I did no consultation. Well, I did. I absolutely did, and the Bill was drafted as an outcome of that consultation.”
“The independent review of education is something that I and my Alliance colleagues put down, not the DUP, as, it seems, its members would like everybody to believe. We put that in the 'New Decade, New Approach' report and were absolutely amazed when it saw its way through, in the appendix and footnotes, to the end document. <BR /> <BR />The independent review of education will produce a report, not legislation. The Bill — I make no apologies — is about integrated education. It says it on the Bill. It states clearly on page 1 that it makes:”
“My throat is about to go, so, if you do not mind, I will try and keep going here. <BR /> <BR />I know that the Minister does not agree with the Executive Office report, but the 'Good Relations Indicators' report confirms that one in five pupils who preferred integrated education could not secure a place in an integrated school. On that basis, when I was coming forward with this private Member's Bill, that helped to confirm that I was doing the right thing. <BR /> <BR />Some Members talked about a single education system. I will be very clear: I agree with you — there should be a single education system, but we do not have one at this stage. Other Members asked, "How long do we have to wait for that?".”
“I can just hear a whisper across the House of, "Thank goodness for that", because we are finally at the last speech on the Bill. I will not lie; I am absolutely delighted with the amount of debate about integration that has happened because of the Bill. I know that Mrs Dodds seems to think that I have a magic wand and I made this happen, but it is the fortieth year of integrated education. It also happens to be March, which is Integrated Education Month, but, believe me, the timetable of the Bill was not of my making. I wish that I had been able to plan it this well. <BR /> <BR />I believe that this is progressive, positive legislation. It supports intentional integration where pupils, teaching and non-teaching staff and governors all come from diverse backgrounds and are together every day in the classroom in an integrated school.”
“Can I ask a clarification question? It says "different abilities": can you, please, explain to me why that would mean that children of different abilities would be excluded from an integrated school?”
“Does the Minister recall the declaration of ethos in the statement of principles that was drawn together with her Department's involvement? How, in any way, does the Bill counterbalance that?”
“When I met Mr Beattie and Mr Butler about that, I said to them that that would mean that, after the strategic plan goes forward, when the first child walks into an integrated school and the school receives the common funding formula, that would be a detriment to the other sectors because that child will be funded. They agreed with me, but they would not change that amendment in order to clarify that they meant additional money. That is why the House voted against that amendment.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I met some of those organisations, and it is amazing to see the change between what they said at those meetings and what they then said in public. The Member has again mentioned Mr Butler's amendment about there not being any detriment. Actually, I will take him back to what the amendment was. It was that, following the strategic plan, an integrated school would not create any financial detriment.”
“I thank my colleague from Strangford for giving way. The words "stand-alone concept" are not mine but those of Mr Justice Treacy, who made it very clear in his decision on Drumragh Integrated College that mixing in schools is not the same as integrated education. He determined that integrated education was a stand-alone concept.”
“I agree absolutely. This is the Integrated Education Bill that talks about the integrated education sector. Of course the principal and the school that Mrs Dodds talks about will be supported. It has the Education Authority as its employing and planning authority. The Bill will not stop the Education Authority supporting that school.”
“Will the Member clarify whether he is accusing me of making him out to be something less, given that I have exactly the same educational background and come from the same background as him?”
“I thank Mr Newton for bringing up Mr Greenberg, who certainly received instructions from me on the drafting of the Bill. However, Mr Greenberg also contributed quite strongly to the Bill and said that it was his moral privilege to work on it. Indeed, he was able to bring forward amendments that the Office of the Legislative Counsel could not bring forward because they were not put forward in the House at Further Consideration Stage. Perhaps the Member will agree that having Mr Greenberg's influence on the Bill shines a light on how well private Members' Bills are supported through our Bill Office.”
“I thank the Member very much for giving way. Does she agree that the definition of integration in the Bill does not take away from the fact that integrated schools can be created only through the Education Reform (Northern Ireland) Order 1989? That is not talked about in the Bill; it is kept as it is. The Member talked about all the integrated schools, but the Department of Education's legislation defines what an integrated school is and when it can legally be called an integrated school.”
“The Bill allows a coherent policy direction for integrated education, meaning that the sector will not have to rely on the political position of the Minister of the day. There are those who say that the Bill is flawed because they do not want it, but it is positive and progressive legislation. I ask all Members in the House to support the provision of integrated education by voting for my private Member's Bill today.”
“It references no other sectors, because there are planning authorities for controlled and maintained schools that carry out those functions for those schools.”
“The Bill's long title clearly states that it makes:”
“<BR /> <BR />Whether others like it or not, integrated education is one of the four sectors in Northern Ireland. Integrated education is a stand-alone concept. Every integrated school has had to meet the legal processes required under the Education Reform (Northern Ireland) Order 1989 before the Department of Education has legally recognised it as either a controlled integrated school or a grant-maintained integrated school.”
“I thank the Member, but there has been a duty to "encourage and facilitate" integrated education over the past number of years. Look where that got us. <BR /> <BR />The Bill adds to the duty to "encourage and facilitate" by placing a statutory duty on the Department for Education to support integrated education, to assess parental preference and to produce a strategy and action plan to aim to meet the demand for integrated education. Why is that needed? It is needed because, after 40 years of integrated education, only 7% of the pupil population attends integrated education, and there are only 68 schools, soon to be 69 with Bangor Central Nursery School opening as an integrated school in September 2022. That will be 69 out of 1,091 schools in Northern Ireland. It is a minority in the number of schools and a minority of pupils.”
“The Integrated Education Bill adds to the duty to "encourage and facilitate" by placing a statutory duty on the Department of Education to support integrated education, to assess parental preference and to produce a strategy and action plan to aim to meet the demand for integrated education.”
“The main aim of the Integrated Education Bill is to allow parents to have a preference for the type of school that they want to send their child or children to. Across Northern Ireland, some areas do not have an integrated school, so parents and children have no choice, and, in many areas, lots of integrated schools are oversubscribed, which means, again, that parents who want to send their child to an integrated school are denied that opportunity. Their children then go to a controlled or maintained school. That does not happen to parents who choose a maintained or controlled school. If they choose that type of school, their child will go to it. There will always be an option for controlled and maintained schools. There is not the same opportunity for people who want to go to integrated schools or, indeed, to Irish-medium schools.”
“The agreement placed a duty on the Department of Education to "facilitate and encourage integrated education". Integrated education is part of our peace process, It is a vehicle for change. I am aware that it is not the panacea to fix all that is wrong with our education system, or even with Northern Ireland itself, but having more young people growing up together and being educated together will help to move Northern Ireland forward. <BR /> <BR />Dr Matthew Milliken of the School of Education UNESCO Centre at Ulster University said:”
“I do not think that I have ever heard another policy officer mentioned so much in the Chamber. Fiona's intelligence, diligence and ability to work with others have been outstanding, and I thank her very much for all her time. Finally, I thank my family, both my Alliance family and Barry and Sophia, for putting up with me for the past six years. <BR /> <BR />I believe in a shared society, free from intimidation, discrimination and fear, where everyone is safe, can play their part and is treated fairly and with respect. I believe in a society for everyone. That is why, when the opportunity arose to support integrated education through a private Member's Bill, I felt that it was time to turn words into actions. <BR /> <BR />Integrated education was enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement as being:”
“There have been 36 hours of debate, so far, with some very long sittings for your team. I appreciate the professionalism that has been maintained throughout the process. Of course, I thank Alex and Roisin in the Business Office for all their help and advice. I thank Daniel Greenberg, who drafted the consequential amendments when the Minister decided not to progress the amendments prepared by the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC). The drafting of the Bill was done by a professional, leading draftsperson. Indeed, Mr Greenberg was one of the drafters of the Good Friday Agreement. It was a privilege to have his professional input. I also thank Fiona McAteer — she will very cross at me for mentioning her name — who, with me, has lived with the Bill from day 1.”