Kellie Armstrong
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the Fisheries, Aquaculture and Water Environment Bill. It is timely and important. Miss McIlveen, a fellow MLA for the Strangford constituency, has just spoken.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill reflects the realities of the post-Brexit landscape by aligning protections here with those in other UK jurisdictions and the UK Fisheries Act. That consistency is important for standards, enforcement and international confidence in our products.”
“Last year, I met the Department and we discussed that. The opportunities for seaweed farming in Strangford lough are wonderful, and the opportunities from seaweed that Queen's University has identified are incredible. We are lucky to have those opportunities on our doorstep, as long as there is licensing and it is properly looked after.”
“Moving beyond managing individual fisheries, the Bill recognises the interconnected nature of our rivers, loughs and seas — an approach that is very much in line with Alliance's commitment to evidence-based environmental policy. The inclusion of a national benefit objective is also significant.”
“A while ago, we saw that commercial bottom trawling had all but decimated the horse mussel population in Strangford lough. It has since been changed to a special area of conservation. That limits a lot of activity in the lough, which is not a bad thing considering that horse mussels are coming back.”
“They allow for timely action on lower-level offences without over-burdening the courts while still acting as a meaningful deterrent. If only everybody were acting properly, we would not need to have those deterrents, but we are where we are, and the Bill hopes to improve upon that.”
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“I rise as a concerned Member of the legislature. While I accept that the budget is there, is well considered and has been brought forward by our excellent team, there are certain things that I would love the Commission to consider, namely the savings that can be made. Certain issues within the budget are not being considered. The amount of paper that is used in this place is one example. We have an antiquated system: we should be using Account NI as opposed to any other process. Our financial system relies on copious amounts of paper and what is called "wet signatures". That is not in keeping with such a modern establishment as we should be bringing forward. <BR /> <BR />I hope that the recommendations of the RHI report are brought forward when we are considering Member development.”
“The revaluation occurred on 1 April 2018, but there are pubs and hotels that have seen significant changes since then. If they submit evidence of the impact of those changes to their business after 1 April 2018, will that be taken into consideration in a revaluation?”
“I ask the Minister to go further and tell us how much is being spent from the Fresh Start budget on shared education and integrated education, how much is planned to be spent and how much will be left over.”
“By comparison, the Cambridge Dictionary definition of the word "single" is, "one only". <BR /> <BR />Our school system comprises wonderful young people who are taught by wonderful teachers, and we are letting them down by taking £100 million a year out of the system to maintain segregation.”
“I have to agree with Miss Woods, but we have even more problems than that, given that the Fair Employment (Monitoring) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 1999 define community by binary means and do not take into account any section 75 obligations. <BR /> <BR />We have to think that an inclusive system is one that includes disabilities, and a way of doing that is through our school system. We cannot do that while our school estate is no longer fit for purpose, so the review is critically needed. We included the word "inclusive" in the motion. The Cambridge Dictionary definition gives this example:”
“I will remind Members that, in building an inclusive society, we need to think about LGBT, Catholic/Protestant, all faiths and those of no faith.”
“<BR /> <BR />Segregation and separation of children is something that I absolutely believe is wrong. Justin McNulty said that he is a Catholic who went through the Catholic education system and that he understands diversity. I am sorry, but I have to disagree. I am a Catholic who went through the Catholic education system, and, other than for the fact that I had a mixed family, I never came across diversity through my school. It talked to me about it but did not include me with it. I completely respect the Member when he says that the Catholic education system is a good system. I am a product of it, so I have to agree. However, we must take the best of that system and the best of everything else and bring it all together to create a system that is so much better. <BR /> <BR />I say this to all as well: it needs to be an inclusive system.”
“It may then take 15 to 20 years to change our education system to meet its recommendations. As well as time, it will take the belief of everyone in the House to support an education system that will be fit for the future. <BR /> <BR />We have children who are coming out of education at the moment. Some go to university. Some are lucky enough to go into jobs. Some go on to further education. However, many of our children come out without qualifications. What is happening to them? They are being left behind, and many of those young people have special educational needs. That is a poor measurement of our society. Why are we not protecting those people who need us the most, to ensure that they have a lifelong pathway whenever the options that we take for granted are not available to them?”
“I say to every Member in the House that we are failing some of our children in society by not having an education system that is fit for all. I ask every one of you to stop for a moment and consider the fact that we have already agreed to have such a system in 'New Decade, New Approach'. Are we already saying that that document is a failure? No, we are not. We are saying that we are going to take forward reform. We are simply asking the Minister to bring terms of reference to the Executive. He indicated in his response that he will be doing that, for which I thank him. We look forward to seeing the terms of reference very soon, because a review of education is not something that we can wait on. As you rightly say, Minister, it will take a substantial amount of time to create the report.”
“One of the Members to my left — I apologise; I am not sure who it was — said that the head teachers were not pleased: that is a vested interest. Everyone should have their say in the consultation. It needs to be independent so that the independent person can make sure that all those voices are brought forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have already agreed some of the terms, Minister. The reason we pointed you out in the motion as opposed to the Executive is that the Executive, for two months, have not moved on this. When you are bringing forward terms and conditions, I will remind you to look at the footnote on page 43, which defines what "education" means. It is the full gamut of education; it is not just the schools. It looks at nursery provision and further education. It also looks at teachers, sectoral bodies and the curriculum — the whole gamut. <BR /> <BR />Can we please now have some bravery in the House? Bengoa was tough. I put it to each and every one of you that this will be the toughest thing that the Assembly will ever face, because there are a massive number of vested interests in education across Northern Ireland.”
“Let me make this argument, and then I will come back to you. <BR /> <BR />The Member brings me back to my point: nowhere in the Alliance motion will you see the words "integrated education". The Alliance Party and I are more interested in integrating education for the benefit of our young people and the staff who work in those schools. Why are we, as adults, pushing our segregation down the throats of children? If CCMS offers a fantastic education system, let us get the best parts of it and bring it into the system. The same applies to the controlled sector, the integrated sector or any sector. It is time that we stopped spending so much money propping up organisations in order to maintain segregation and looked back at what there should be: an education system that is fit for all.”
“When we were discussing that in the talks period, a number of people said to me, "You're never going to get this in, Kellie. This will never work. There are too many vested interests". I have to say that there are. We have some excellent school systems, but we simply cannot afford them any more. We cannot afford them for two reasons: it is not just the financial aspect but the damage that it does to our children. While Mr Newton and others have said that we have a fantastic school system, we do, but only for some. We have special educational needs provision that, the Education Authority has already admitted, has been failing. We have children being left on school buses. We have other children, as Mr Allister pointed out, receiving different levels of funding depending on which type of school they go to.”
“I do not argue with the Member on that. <BR /> <BR />Page 43 of the document continues:”
“We know that, and we thank those who work in those systems. I pay tribute to them not just for their excellence in their work but the fact that they struggle to get by with what they have. <BR /> <BR />It is also stated on page 43 that the system is not sustainable. I remind Members that:”
“I hope that I will not take the full time. The reason why the Alliance Party tabled the motion was frustration. Today is 10 March. The 'New Decade, New Approach' document was published on 10 January, and it made it clear that a Programme for Government should be published within two weeks of the restoration of the institutions. That has not happened. Page 43 of that document, as Mr Allister pointed out, states:”
“I am delighted to hear the Minister state her commitment to co-production and co-design. I was very interested when she described the terms of reference that are going to be used for the disability strategy. How many people with disabilities are working to pull together those terms of reference?”
“— to live in fear, be dismissed or considered an annoyance.”
“— yet they are allowed to go into homes for only 15 minutes. We must do better. <BR /> <BR />The Pensioners Parliament has been closed down. We must do so much more to give people voices. With an ageing society that is living longer, we should not allow older people —”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I am just coming to that point. <BR /> <BR />Although not all homes employ abusers, what systems do we have in place to prevent abusers from going to work with older people? The AccessNI system has worked well to stop people from working with children, but what about with older people? <BR /> <BR />As the Member pointed out, we also treat those who care for our older people and our vulnerable people as unskilled. Those are the people whom we entrust to look after our mums, our dads and our grandparents —”
“In society, however, we hear of nursing homes and residential homes closing down and of older people being evicted from their home, with no consideration given to where they will then go to live. We have all heard the terrible stories of abuse that have happened in residential homes for older people.”
“The Human Trafficking and Exploitation (Criminal Justice Support for Victims) Act (Northern Ireland) 2015 defines a vulnerable adult as:”
“<BR /> <BR />Another recommendation raised by the report was having pre-recorded cross-examinations, and I am encouraged that the Department of Justice is exploring that to improve the experience of victims who have had to give evidence in court, meaning that vulnerable victims could give their evidence ahead of trial and outside the courtroom. Not having to attend the trial should reduce the stressful impact on victims, as well as hopefully improving the quality of their evidence as a result. I look forward to hearing from the Minister on the further activities and actions that she intends to bring forward. <BR /> <BR />Before I take my seat, I will raise an issue about how we treat older people in society. The measurement of respect and inclusion is how we treat our most vulnerable people.”
“This service is aimed at people over the age of 60, and the PSNI crime prevention officers undertake assessments of a house and make recommendations for home security equipment. When that is being fitted, other support services can also be signposted. There are similar schemes in my local village of Cloughey, a tiny wee place. They provide door chains and a good neighbour scheme. They were afraid of the neighbourhood schemes that you see around, so they set up a good neighbour scheme. The result of that has been to build confidence and community cohesion to help to defeat that fear.”
“This type of service helps older people after a crime has happened and encourages others to know that, when their friend has reported a crime, they have received support through that process and, therefore, they too will receive support through that process. <BR /> <BR />There are wider issues of how we take proactive steps to help older people feel safer in their homes and community, and this is why the role of PCSPs is so important. One positive PCSP initiative is the Belfast home security service that provides home security. We have all seen the door chains and the fake beans cans that you can hide in your house. That helps people who have been recent victims of domestic burglary and also helps people who feel vulnerable that they may become a victim of crime to feel more secure in their homes.”
“<BR /> <BR />The report of the Commissioner for Older People had a number of recommendations that I believe have been taken up and are making significant progress to help older people. The report highlights a number of contributory factors for lower crime rates for older people, including delays in reporting crimes because of embarrassment or delayed realisation that a crime has occurred. Support for older people to report is key, and I wish to highlight the excellent work of the support responders service in Ards and north Down. It was launched in December 2018 and then looked at again in December 2019 and still runs today. It provides immediate practical and emotional support to older people when they have become a victim of crime.”
“While that was a terrible event that happened to her, she did not leave her house for six months afterwards for fear that it was going to happen again. <BR /> <BR />While it is true that crime against older people is, thankfully, rare, the fear of crime is significant among older people. In 2018-19, there were four crime victims aged 65 or over per thousand of the population, 12 per thousand were victims of burglary, 12 per thousand were victims of criminal damage and three per thousand were victims of violence against the person. While the crime levels can be low, we have to be very careful that today's debate does not exacerbate the fear that is felt. As has been spoken about before, the reverberations and the ripple effect do have huge implications.”
“I thank Mr Storey and Ms Bunting for tabling the motion. As someone who has worked with older people, I am grateful that a focus on crime and the effect of crime on older people is being debated today. The motion highlights the report compiled by the Older People’s Commissioner, Eddie Lynch, which confirms that being a victim of crime can be a traumatic experience for anyone but that there are particular consequences for older people. <BR /> <BR />As I said, I worked with older people before. I can give an example of an older lady, who was blind and who, unfortunately, was known to have kept £200 in her house. Lo and behold, one day, two young people arrived at her door purporting to be from the milkman and stole her £200.”
“Once we have this Budget Bill out of the way, we want Committees to start planning for the three-year period, because while we understand that, in this period of time, we have a Budget Bill and a Programme for Government that are set for a year, there is a commitment to a three-year process or longer and we need to be able to plan for that. I look forward to movements being made by the Executive after the summer to bring forward discussions on the future Programme for Government.”
“They can provide a tourism opportunity in areas, particularly rural areas, where there are none and can potentially bring jobs into those rural areas. I look forward to that coming forward. <BR /> <BR />We absolutely welcome the domestic abuse Bill. We take this forward knowing that, finally, we will have legislation that will protect victims and provide a good way for the police to look after people. <BR /> <BR />We appreciate that this year's Budget Bill will be for one year. We need to see the Programme for Government for that.”
“Thinking about that sector size criteria, my colleague from Strangford Mike Nesbitt MLA has confirmed that we do have an issue about housing and that is why it is vital that the housing (amendment) Bill comes forward. The reclassification of social housing is very much needed to ensure that co-ownership stays as an option for people and can actually receive funding to enable people to use that to buy a house, but if the reclassification of housing is going to take some time, we are in trouble. The Minister has confirmed that her legislation may well come through before the summer, but it will be about how long it will take ONS after that. That will cause difficulties for us. <BR /> <BR />On the licensing and registration of clubs, I reiterate what others have said: microbreweries deserve to be treated appropriately.”
“I think that all of us have this in the back of our mind: where is that legislative paper? We all welcome the mitigations and need those to come forward. The 31 March deadline is pending, yet none of us has seen the paperwork. That was brought up as a concern in the Communities Committee. We appreciate that the Minister is working extremely hard to try to take that forward and that it will be by accelerated passage. That is not the way that we want it to happen, but it is the only way to, hopefully, meet the deadline. However, we have not yet seen the paperwork. My question to the First Minister, therefore, is this: will the legislation be processed in time? If not, I have a great concern that the Civil Service will not be able to cover any gaps. What will we do then?”
“Like others, I reiterate that it is great to be back in this place talking about legislation. I appreciate that, as the First Minister said, this is not the full amount of legislation that will be taken through. We are very realistic that this is a one-year programme and that the legislation will be brought through by the summer in order for it to happen in the coming year. However, a number of things are missing from this, which is sad to see. We could have had quick wins: for instance, the removal of mineral planning permissions and bits and pieces on driver and bus licensing that the Infrastructure Minister could have taken through. We look forward to seeing what the future plan will be. <BR /> <BR />Getting back to what is listed, I have a question on welfare mitigation.”
“I, like the First Minister, share concerns about where the money is coming from. Have there been any discussions about which Department will take forward the scheme, given that it is, effectively, a pension scheme?”
“The cross-departmental Programme for Government has the opportunity to see budgets shared to deliver real change in a shared society. Minister, if you can get us more money from London, that will be very welcome and we will spend it. Minister, I also ask you to ensure that the hard discussions now take place on how our Budget will deliver a sustainable, shared and inclusive society where, instead of investing in the total cost of segregation and division projects, we create an effective, economic and societal path towards our new decade.”
“It is time to get serious about the need to do things more efficiently, not least by embracing reform, tackling division and ensuring that public money is spent accountably and transparently. There is a challenge to the whole Executive. Are you spending our money efficiently? Are you procuring the right services that will take us forward into this new decade? Will there be a new approach? We are about to find out whether we are really serious about making meaningful changes to how we do things in this place and, ultimately, to the society that we are here to represent. We need a bit of a spring rebirth in this place: a lot less of the silo mentality and a lot more working together.”
“Love it. <BR /> <BR />As I was saying, our sewerage system is at capacity, meaning that areas in my constituency and in many of your constituencies are being refused any development and that there is a stay on building much-needed homes. We have a health system with vast and intolerable waiting times. I have hearing problems, and I waited on lists for 85 weeks to have a first hearing test. That is the type of simple thing that makes a difference to people's lives. I got hearing aids, and they have changed my life, but waiting for 85 weeks? Honestly. <BR /> <BR />We have warned for decades that without proper reform and changing the way that we think and do things, this would be the outcome. It is taking far too long to deliver the transformation that this society needs.”
“I could not agree more. It is about time that all our children were educated together under one roof. After all, it is about education. It is not about what adults want. I am glad to see you coming over to the integrated education side, Christopher.”
“Our overall plan cannot be just to rely on monitoring rounds and some shuffling at the end of the financial year. Just doing things the way that we have always done them and hoping to paper over the cracks as we approach the end of March is exactly what has left us with a transport system that cannot continue to provide public transport; a Housing Executive that is threatening to divest itself of 43,000 homes; a segregated school system that cannot afford to pay teachers and our children being taught in dilapidated buildings; a sewerage system that is at capacity, meaning that areas in my constituency —”
“We have concerns about how the last social investment fund was run, not least the fact that money ended up with groups that were represented on steering committees. Any future fund must be dependent on clearer value for money and avoid obvious clashes of interest. It is a basic principle of public funding that allocations must be made on the basis of the evidence. In other words, they must be fair and they must be perceived to be fair. <BR /> <BR />In those three cases, do we know whether money will be allocated from London or Belfast, how the total budget has been worked out and whether spending really represents good value for money? That is before we come to the earlier question about how we make serious savings and whether we need to contemplate revenue raising. It is time for an open and honest discussion.”
“For example, the cost of long overdue compensation to victims of the Troubles and to victims of historical institutional abuse will run to over £0·5 billion. Managing this must be an urgent priority for us all, given that victims have already been further victimised by political gridlock. This raises the obvious question of where the money is coming from. <BR /> <BR />The cost of the Irish language and Ulster-Scots/Ulster-British commissioners will apparently run to nearly £29 million, almost three times the total cost of the current cross-border bodies. Where does this figure come from? Does it represent the most efficient method of delivery on the requirements outlined in 'New Decade, New Approach'? <BR /> <BR />We have also heard about another social investment fund.”
“Ultimately, I have considerable sympathy with Paul Frew and my Strangford colleague Mike Nesbitt's comments that we cannot contemplate significant revenue raising until we have made all the savings that we can. This means ensuring not only that we stop handing money back to the Treasury at the end of the financial year but that all Ministers ensure that their Department and arm's-length bodies are operating as efficiently as possible; that we move forward the reform of public services, not least in health and education; and that, at last, we take proactive measures to seriously tackle division and end the duplication of expenditure by providing services on a one-for-you-and-one-for-me basis. <BR /> <BR />The Executive Office's share of the overall devolved Budget is very small, yet it alone shoulders some of the challenges ahead.”
“We do not know what extra money may come forward, but we do know the cost of continuing to deliver services through systems that are yet to be transformed. <BR /> <BR />The Minister stated yesterday, at his press conference held during Question Time, that we are £600 million short of what Ministers define that they need. It is unclear exactly what has been and will be sought by the Finance Minister from the Treasury in London, whether any revenue-raising measures have been seriously considered, or whether there will be serious changes to ensure that we save money, not least on the cost of division. <BR /> <BR />If we are to accomplish everything in New Decade, New Approach, we are entitled to ask the Finance Minister: where are the practical proposals to enable us to fund all of it?”
“We are back just a matter of weeks, and although we are settling into the Assembly processes, that does not mean that we should ignore the necessity to ask questions and demand better. As confirmed by my colleague Andrew Muir, we need to hear more from the Finance Minister about how the Budget process is going to change. We cannot continue as if nothing has happened. There are considerable lessons that we have to learn about how we spend public money, and there has to be a difference between Budget by occasional reallocation in the hope of covering existing services on the one hand and a carefully considered and planned Budget that really transforms society on the other. <BR /> <BR />We need to be absolutely clear at this point.”
“If the Minister is committed to the health and well-being of people, will he ensure that all new trust buildings and other Department of Health buildings are accessible by buses, with roads wide enough for bus lanes? Otherwise, public transport will be unable to come to hospitals.”
“As highlighted by Ms Bradley and acknowledged by the Minister, a number of rural pubs are community hubs, so is there any leeway? Has rural proofing been considered in Reval2020 because some of my local pubs, which are necessary for tourism in the area, are facing hardship, which may lead to potential closure?”
“Given the special educational needs pressures in his constituency and mine, does the Member agree that it is fundamental that we have a root-and-branch reform of education urgently to make sure that those children are provided with the best possible education to meet their needs?”
“I appreciate that we will hear from the Chancellor only on 11 March about how much Westminster will provide to Northern Ireland. I appreciate that the Vote on Account may give us breathing space, but it should also give us time for scrutiny. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I ask that you, as Finance Minister, address as a matter of urgency silo budgeting, which has just been mentioned by an SDLP colleague. This is the new approach. The Programme for Government is a new approach, yet we are still budgeting separately and looking after individual Department's interests. There are cross-cutting programmes that we need to fund across Departments. I ask that the Minister, if he can, bring forward as soon as possible what criteria he will expect Ministers to use to ensure that cross-departmental budgeting is taken forward.”
“We each need, through our Committees, to ensure that the 2020-21 Budget is scrutinised and that, where there are allocations to support people, they are communicated quickly, spent appropriately and not surrendered. <BR /> <BR />The Department for Communities is supposed to provide a fair system of financial help to those in need, to tackle disadvantage and to promote social inclusion and economic equality. It cannot do so if part of its allocation is surrendered because it has not appropriately promoted programmes of support to the public or there are delays in the implementation of the legislation regarding the reclassification of social housing. Can the Minister confirm that appropriate consultation will be completed?”
“The contingency fund provides emergency support for people, but, again, it is not being shared, and the communications on it have been quite poor. People have been offered an advance loan but were not made aware that there was an opportunity to access non-repayable moneys. If Committees had been in place, we would have had more time to scrutinise this and put it right in-year. We need to learn from this and ensure that appropriate messaging is used to enable the public to know what is available to them. I, therefore, urge the Minister to ensure that there is consultation before the next Budget. I appreciate that time is tight, but the Assembly is back.”