Kellie Armstrong
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the Fisheries, Aquaculture and Water Environment Bill. It is timely and important. Miss McIlveen, a fellow MLA for the Strangford constituency, has just spoken.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill reflects the realities of the post-Brexit landscape by aligning protections here with those in other UK jurisdictions and the UK Fisheries Act. That consistency is important for standards, enforcement and international confidence in our products.”
“Last year, I met the Department and we discussed that. The opportunities for seaweed farming in Strangford lough are wonderful, and the opportunities from seaweed that Queen's University has identified are incredible. We are lucky to have those opportunities on our doorstep, as long as there is licensing and it is properly looked after.”
“Moving beyond managing individual fisheries, the Bill recognises the interconnected nature of our rivers, loughs and seas — an approach that is very much in line with Alliance's commitment to evidence-based environmental policy. The inclusion of a national benefit objective is also significant.”
“A while ago, we saw that commercial bottom trawling had all but decimated the horse mussel population in Strangford lough. It has since been changed to a special area of conservation. That limits a lot of activity in the lough, which is not a bad thing considering that horse mussels are coming back.”
“They allow for timely action on lower-level offences without over-burdening the courts while still acting as a meaningful deterrent. If only everybody were acting properly, we would not need to have those deterrents, but we are where we are, and the Bill hopes to improve upon that.”
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“Minister, thank you for your statement. I am sad to say that I saw it only a minute before you got to your feet.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Can the House be given a further 15 minutes to examine the statement from the Minister for Communities, given that it arrived into our inboxes at 12.19 pm?”
“<BR /> <BR />When the Minister for Communities is considering where to make allocations, he needs to prioritise meeting need and ensure that the Supporting People programme has the resources it needs to deliver for the most vulnerable in our society. It is vital, when taking difficult budget decisions, that the Minister for Communities and all Ministers ensure that decisions are compatible and do not result in people who are homeless, who have disabilities or who are suffering the most from poverty carrying the consequences.”
“<BR /> <BR />A survey sent to the Committee for Communities by the Committee Representing Independent Supporting People Providers (CRISPP) illustrated that many Supporting People-funded providers are deeply concerned about their financial situation. If services feel that, due to a lack of funding, they have no option other than to hand back contracts or reduce the vital services they provide, that will have consequences that will be borne by the people who need those services and by the Housing Executive. Cutting the Supporting People programme will be a false economy that will only exacerbate problems in other statutory services such as education, health and justice. The truth is that the Supporting People programme is in real need of additional funding to meet rising inflationary needs.”
“I make a plea to the Minister and the Department for Communities to allocate their budget wisely to ensure that some of the most vulnerable people in Northern Ireland are prioritised. I appreciate that the budget will be incredibly challenging for Communities this year and that it will require difficult choices to be made. One option that the Minister may consider is to cut the Supporting People programme budget. That would be a mistake. The Minister has described Supporting People as a fantastic programme, and he is right. Supporting People provides invaluable housing support to people in need across this society. As the response to a question for written answer that I tabled illustrated, the baseline budget for Supporting People has been held flat over the past decade. Inflation has eroded the value of the fund year-on-year.”
“When the Housing Executive is provided with data that can help with the removal of problem tenants, the same data cannot be provided to housing associations. Will the Minister consider reviewing the policy to allow that to happen?”
“Can the Minister, please, provide an update on proposal 7 in the fundamental review of the allocation system?”
“<BR /> <BR />A number of people in Northern Ireland live in private rented accommodation. We would have a worse housing crisis if they were not able to live in private tenancies. The evidence from Scotland, however, shows that bringing in a ban on no-fault evictions has not led to a mass exodus of private landlords from the sector. In fact, they had not seen much difference in it, but I have to say that some of their figures were from the COVID period, when there was a ban on moving out of houses. We need to work with our private landlords and with private tenants and we need to consider better how we can protect people in the private rented sector, given the fact that Renters' Voice is saying that those tenants need that type of support.”
“<BR /> <BR />If we are going to ban no-fault evictions, however, there will need to be careful consideration of the reasons why landlords are permitted to end a tenancy. That matter was raised by the previous contributor, Ciara Ferguson. Permitted termination grounds need to be very carefully thought about. For instance, I am not very impressed by the fact that, in Scotland, they include on their list misuse or annoyance as some of the reasons that a landlord can get rid of a tenant. They can also evict someone if they want to lease their property for off-season holiday lets or if they want to use it for a lay missionary property. Some of those reasons are just not acceptable to me, and it would be appropriate to have proper scrutiny of that and bring that forward.”
“The tenant must also give notice. The next stage of the Private Tenancies Act will be taken forward by the Minister without needing an amendment to a motion today. <BR /> <BR />We support the ban on no-fault evictions in Northern Ireland, but to back that up, I have some of the communications that I have received from Renters' Voice, which was extremely helpful on the Private Tenancies Act. It has said that, as a group of private tenants, it has concerns that without security, private renters are not raising issues regarding repairs and maintenance for fear of being evicted. So, having a ban on no-fault evictions in Northern Ireland is something that we should and must consider.”
“I have three minutes, so I will try to fly through this as quickly as possible. As the Alliance Party's housing spokesperson, I can say that we will support the Opposition motion but not the amendment. The reason why we are not supporting the amendment is that the Department for Communities has published on its website some of the protections around notices to quit that are contained in the Private Tenancies Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 and have already been brought through. We already have the provision that, for instance, from 5 May 2022, if a tenant had less than 12 months left on a tenancy, they were entitled to four weeks' notice. If a tenant has less than 12 months left but not more than 10 years tenancy, it is eight weeks' notice, and for tenants with a tenancy of over 10 years, it is 12 weeks' notice.”
“That community and voluntary sector support scheme has delivered support directly to people to help them to meet their bills. I hope that this is the last year that we have to do that, and that we can do something more proactively in the long term to help to reduce those bills forever.”
“That strategy, which will look at child poverty, could also include the fuel poverty work that needs to be done. We need to think about fuel poverty as a way to move forward on our climate change objectives. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the motion, which is very timely. We have nearly run out of time to get this work done. We have people who will no longer get a cost-of-living support from the UK Government in the year ahead. That additional money, which they have had in the past, will not be there this winter. We need to think about how we are going to do things in the short term and the long term. As one of the many MLAs who were able to roll it out, I pay tribute to the Bryson House support scheme, which has helped people with their energy costs.”
“If we are serious about eradicating fuel poverty, we have to help people to move away from fossil fuels so that they can heat their homes in the most cost-efficient way. I have seen amazing results in retrofitted homes that I have visited. One lady with a grown-up family went from paying £500 on her oil bill every couple of months to paying out no more than £20 a fortnight for her heat and light, and that is absolutely incredible. <BR /> <BR />It has been brought up at the fuel poverty strategy pre-consultation events that we need a new definition of fuel poverty. That could be taken forward by the task force that is mentioned in the motion, or in the consultation that takes place on the fuel poverty strategy. Yesterday was a good example of how the House can come together to agree on an anti-poverty strategy.”
“That will not be for the Minister for Communities to deal with; it will be for the Minister for the Economy. That is a longer-term issue. <BR /> <BR />The other thing — it is close to my heart — is what we will do about retrofitting or establishing Passivhaus-standard homes across Northern Ireland. I have spent a good bit of time, I have to say, going around looking at options for retrofitting. It will not come cheap. The fabric-first approach that is already being taken by the Housing Executive, for instance, to put insulation into homes goes some way towards helping with that. Recently, I met the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. We talked about its heat pilot scheme. It is targeted at 300 homes across Northern Ireland. That is very welcome, but it is focused on gas-fuelled homes.”
“We could cap bills, or we could have price protections in place. Those are some of the short-term actions that we could take. Fixing cold homes is another way. <BR /> <BR />The other thing that we need to consider is who we will help first. I am sure that many in the House have received papers from Age NI and others that outline the issues that there are for people who are at home during the day, are often quite immobile and who depend on having the heating on to help them. I think of older people and people with disabilities who are immobile. While those people may well be asset rich, they are income poor. We have to consider how we will help them. Others have mentioned rural homes. I live in one of them. At the moment, I am dependent on oil. We need to bring oil into line with other fuel supply under the Utility Regulator.”
“On behalf of the Alliance Party, I can say that we will support the Opposition motion on eradicating fuel poverty. I can also confirm that I am very aware that the Minister's officials have been holding fuel poverty strategy pre-consultation meetings to look at the climate change objectives. My staff attended one of those meetings. I have to say that it was very helpful, resourceful and thought-provoking. <BR /> <BR />As the motion states, we should be working to eradicate fuel poverty and the next Programme for Government should include clear targets to achieve that. How we achieve that was discussed at the pre-consultation event. Will it be person-led or stock-led? To explain: do we deal with people or homes? We could certainly provide people with money to deal with their bills, as we have in the past.”
“I thank the Minister. A part of the transport sector is private cars. Will the Minister confirm how he will commit to exploring push policies that discourage private car usage in Belfast and other city centres and, indeed, large towns across Northern Ireland?”
“Member; I am sorry, Gerry. I am giving you promotions. In the House of Commons on 31 January 2012, when the vote was taken, Naomi Long, who was an MP at that stage, voted against welfare reform.”
“Sadly, I do not believe that a Labour Government are going to do that. I am concerned that £56 million is only the start of the annual costs for this. The IT costs and the length of time that it would take to implement would mean that we would have a generation of children here who would not have that support because Northern Ireland would not be able to afford it. Therefore, I agree with the amendment, but I say this to the Minister: we are looking at you for this, and we are looking for movement forward on it.”
“That money will need to come through as part of a coherent anti-poverty strategy in which all of the Executive have agreed to use the money to lift people out of poverty. I would back you on that, Minister, but I do not know whether the whole Executive would be willing to give up the money to allow it to happen. However, we need to do something. Having a better start larger families payment as a mitigation is what we need to do. <BR /> <BR />That is what we said in the House about the bedroom tax. What a disaster that was, but we could not afford to walk away from the bedroom tax, so we mitigated the costs. That is what we need to do with the two-child limit. Until such times as Westminster changes that, we put a mitigation in place so that we protect children and lift them out of poverty.”
“is not enough for me. I want to see a payment coming forward. <BR /> <BR />Just as my colleague has concerns that the amendment is a bit wishy-washy, so do I, but, to be honest, it gives a better direction, and it gives something on which I, as a member of the Communities Committee, can work with the Minister to take forward. <BR /> <BR />A better start larger families payment by way of a Northern Ireland mitigation will mean that people here will not have to suffer from the loss of the £3,455 per child for the third child and subsequent children, but we need to know where that money is going to come from. If you divide £3,455 per child per year, that cost is £66·45 a week. Where are we going to get that money from?”
“This is Opposition day. There are lots of coulds and shoulds. I am not interested in coulds and shoulds. I want to make sure that people are not without money. Coulds and shoulds do not pay for somebody's school uniform or put food in a child's mouth. I need to absolutely know that, if we take a decision to do this before Westminster does it, we are not going to put people in a worse situation. I explained that when I spoke to the Cliff Edge Coalition, Action for Children and the British Association of Social Workers. I have spoken to everybody about this. Let us do this, but let us do it well; let us not put people in further poverty. That is why the Alliance Party is supporting the amendment. Asking the Communities Minister for:”
“I am on the Committee for Communities, and I will hold your feet to the fire on this. Can the Minister tell the House how much the IT system is going to cost and how long it will take to put that system in place to make this a reality? If we jump before Westminster removes the two-child limit, what will the implications be for the House? I do not say that lightly, because, if I could get rid of the two-child limit tomorrow, I would gladly do so, but, pragmatically, I do not want to take the money out of the mouths of children who are already in poverty in Northern Ireland, and which has been counted on by so many people.”
“I grew up in a family very like Mr Butler's family. I had the added pleasure of a younger brother — I am the oldest — who had quite severe learning disabilities, and a younger sister. She would not have had any money. My brother's costs, because of the amount of disability that he had and the extra support that we, as a family, needed for him, would have meant that we were under pressure. We lived on benefits, and I had two parents who worked. Looking at this, I can say that to take away what support that there was for me and my brother, for any length of time, would have been unimaginable. <BR /> <BR />Minister, we will support your amendment. We detest the two-child limit, but we are going to support the amendment because I want a better start larger families payment.”
“The Alliance Party absolutely agrees that the two-child limit is despicable and that it should be removed, but, as my colleague said, there are costs to the removal.”
“It pays for so many things, so why do we say that child 1 and child 2 can have that but child 3, child 4 and child 5, as in Mr Butler's family, or child 6 or more cannot have that?”
“Thank you, Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />When you get to this stage of a debate, quite a lot of people have talked about stats and figures and the different things that you can talk about, so I will move on from that. <BR /> <BR />Last week, the child element of universal credit increased to £3,455 per child for child 1 and child 2. What does that £3,455 pay for? It pays for their food. It pays for a child's clothes. It pays for part of the roof over their head, because we know that many people live in houses where their housing benefit does not cover the full rental costs. It pays for their extortionate school uniforms. If there is a school trip, it pays for that.”
“As happens when you get to this stage of a debate — I know that a few Members have spoken so far —.”
“I thank the Minister and the Executive for even thinking about taking forward the scheme, because the issue is so taboo that nobody wants to talk about it. This is something special that the House can do. It is something special that I will hold very dear if we can make it happen, and I thank you very much.”
“We take flowers to the front of the church, and the place is a mound of flowers. The smell of flowers is very strong. To think that we would have the opportunity for a certificate but that the cut-off point would be 2018 is very difficult for me to hear. I would print the certificate myself. I do not care, just as long as I could have something tangible: a piece of paper that says that one of my Armstrongs was here, even for a very short time. That is so important to me. Please do not take that away from an 80-year-old, please do not take it away from a 60-year-old and please do not take it away from somebody in their 50s like me. <BR /> <BR />Let us do something really positive and really helpful for all those parents out there.”
“I say this to you, Minister: please do not do what England has done and set the cut-off point at 2018. I lost my first in 1996. I had been married for six months and, boy, was that a shock to the system. I did not know anybody else who had gone through it. That baby sits in here every single day, and the other, subsequent babies sit in here every single day. There is an annual service of remembrance. We take it year about in Belfast and Derry. There is a service in St Anne's Cathedral and in St Peter's Cathedral in Belfast, and I stand beside women in their 80s, daddies in their 70s, people in their 50s like me and couples who are perhaps in their early 20s, all with the tears tripping them, remembering in the one place and the one space where we can all come together to remember our children.”
“There is no formal recognition of them. I do not have a grave, and I never had a wake or a funeral. That is why it is very important and personal to me that we bring in this scheme.”
“"Empty arms" — I know the organisation very well — explains exactly how empty you feel afterwards. The fact that we have no recognition of our children hurts really hard. <BR /> <BR />The new scheme that is being brought in by the UK Government is very welcome. It is part of their women's health strategy. It is designed to put a greater focus on women-specific health conditions, including fertility and pregnancy loss, and it covers gynae conditions such as endometriosis. The scheme will help women like me, who have experienced miscarriage and have nothing, other than a positive pregnancy test on your medical record, followed up by a negative pregnancy test. At times, you might have the word "miscarriage" used, and that is it. <BR /> <BR />All my hopes and dreams for each one of those children live with me, and only with me.”
“I will start by saying to anyone who has undergone a loss in pregnancy, at birth or just after their baby has been born that I am very sorry. It is a grief that is very hard to bear, and I thank Mr Robinson for the words that he has just spoken. That hit home to me: you will understand in a moment. <BR /> <BR />I have spoken in the House before about being a parent who has lost multiple babies during pregnancy. I will not talk today about the pathology service, because I never got that far. Over the course of my 14 pregnancies, we did not have the opportunity to have the remains of the 13 who did not live checked out, because I lost my children before 24 weeks. At the time you leave the hospital, if you are lucky to go to the hospital, or you are at home, you maybe have a visit with a GP and that is it: it is over.”
“We need to have one particular thing — this was suggested to me by the British Association of Social Workers — and that is an audit of poverty. An audit of poverty will look once and for all at Northern Ireland to see exactly what the issues are with poverty across all society. <BR /> <BR />Anything that affects adults, affects children; anything that affects children, affects adults. We need to see what that looks like. The Minister is right: poverty is a blight on society. It limits opportunity. There is an opportunity today for the House to support the amendment. We agree with the original proposers' indications, but we just think that they need to go further. Let us not limit this to just children; let us get rid of poverty in Northern Ireland for everyone.”
“The Minister mentioned that he might bring that forward. <BR /> <BR />We also need to learn from what has happened before, because we need specific actions and interventions, not need a strategy that is going to sit on a shelf somewhere. <BR /> <BR />The cliff edge on mitigations that is coming next year was brought up before today. An anti-poverty strategy that is developed now can, hopefully, bring forward measures that will influence what we will do with mitigations in 2025. Therefore, we need to take forward clear actions to deliver those anti-poverty measures so that we no longer have people falling off that cliff edge. <BR /> <BR />Children do not apply for benefits, but they suffer when their family is unable to access support.”
“I have only five minutes, so I will not give way. <BR /> <BR />I believe in co-production and co-design, and there are a wealth of organisations that can help the Minister and the Executive to bring forward a clear and precise anti-poverty strategy that has measurable targets that we can achieve before the end of the mandate. <BR /> <BR />The Northern Ireland Office confirms that some of the many reasons for child poverty are linked to low wages, worklessness and the rising cost of living. If you talk to any Department, you will find that those issues impact on all of them. The Northern Ireland Audit Office, on page10 of the 'Child Poverty in Northern Ireland' report by the Comptroller and Auditor General, states:”
“We need to have co-production and co-design in order to bring forward an effective anti-poverty strategy that can be monitored and responded to and that will bring forward actions that will make a change.”
“The Department of Education needs to deliver early years and childcare. The Department for Infrastructure needs to provide affordable access to services. An anti-poverty strategy is an opportunity to bring all of that together. That may take a little bit of time. We tabled the amendment in the way that we did for a reason, and Mr O'Toole asked why we did not go for the target of September. To be honest, I worked in the community and voluntary sector for a long time before I came to the House, and I know that somebody who does not want to know what you have to say puts a consultation out over the summer months. September is too quick for this.”
“We need to break the cycle of poverty by having an anti-poverty strategy. That, of course, must include child poverty actions. <BR /> <BR />There is a direct link between working-age adults who are in poverty and the number of children in Northern Ireland who are in poverty. Action for Children, which, very kindly, met me last week, outlined that over 58% of children in poverty are living in work-constrained families and that 12,000 children in poverty are living in families in which both parents are working. That says something about this place. It is not just about families who are unemployed or families who are on benefits; this is an issue that cuts across all Departments in Northern Ireland. There are multiple barriers, of course, to people getting to work. The Department for the Economy needs to deliver access to skills.”
“The cost of poverty impacts the whole of the Executive. It impacts society from birth to grave. The Northern Ireland poverty and income inequality report for 2022-23, which was released on 27 March, confirms that one in four children is living in relative poverty in Northern Ireland. That is something that I am ashamed of. I think that everyone in the House agrees that it is shameful. <BR /> <BR />Poverty and child poverty will only get worse in Northern Ireland unless we take deliberate actions to address the issue. As my colleague Sian Mulholland stated, poverty is multigenerational and cross-community. We need a holistic approach that looks at unemployment, housing, education and all of the areas in which we can make improvements to the cost of living for people in Northern Ireland.”
“Can you confirm how the Executive Office intends to improve the work of the North/South bodies so that it aligns with the future Programme for Government, investment strategy and budgets that are approved by the Assembly?”
“Thank you, Minister. Credit where credit is due: when the Executive were asked to work together to come up with a solution, you did that, and I thank you for that. I am delighted that you have come to the House today to say that you will be taking forward legislation. That extension of the limitation period for defective residential buildings will introduce new provisions into the Limitation (Northern Ireland) Order, and, as you mentioned, it will be a Bill that will be primary legislation as opposed to any other type of regulation. Can you clarify how quickly you will be able to introduce it to the House, please?”
“I thank the Member very much — I nearly gave you a Minister title there — for giving way. Where will he get the money to spend on all that he talks about?”
“We can do that through reform, whereby every Member in the Assembly has an equal vote and vetoes are no longer the shadow hanging over this place or the people whom we are supposed to support. Minister, I hope that you can give me that commitment today.”
“That is not what, I suspect, will be the case in 2024-25, where the Budget will determine and limit actions. I therefore challenge the Minister of Finance to confirm how she will ensure that such a large Vote on Account is not needed again in this mandate. I ask her to give a commitment to the House that the 2024-25 Budget will be the last Budget in this mandate that is brought to the House before a Programme for Government is decided. <BR /> <BR />As I said, we need to look forward and change how this place works. We need to commit to upholding a working Government to ensure that we never again leave people in Northern Ireland to suffer under a Budget introduced by a Secretary of State.”
“The freeze on Northern Ireland Civil Service recruitment means that the Department for Communities is under significant pressure to deliver large programmes of work, including the move to universal credit. <BR /> <BR />Looking forward, we need to change how this place works. We need a Programme for Government that is underpinned by previously agreed strategies such as the anti-poverty strategy, which should include targeted actions to ensure that no child here lives in poverty. Social strategies, including the disability strategy, the racial equality strategy and the investment strategy, are all listed as key supporting strategies, and we have already agreed them in the House. <BR /> <BR />We also need to improve our timing to ensure that the Budget works to deliver the Programme for Government.”
“<BR /> <BR />In the past year, we did not have enough money to build enough homes. We have the worst waiting lists for social housing and the highest ever number of people who are homeless. Our partners in the community and voluntary sector, on whom we depend to deliver so many social interventions, including supporting people and access to employment and training for those who are furthest from employment, need the financial confidence of multi-year Budgets. Having worked for many years in that sector prior to becoming an MLA, I am fully aware of the pressures placed on those organisations. Their staff face the constant threat of redundancy; in some cases, it is an annual threat.”
“More than half of the people claiming universal credit in Northern Ireland — 62% — are either behind on bills and credit commitments or find it a constant struggle to keep themselves warm. Four in 10 people — 62,000 people claiming universal credit — have fallen into debt because they could not keep up with essential bills. <BR /> <BR />The 2023-24 Budget was, as we know, set by the Secretary of State because there was no Executive and no Assembly. It was only when this place was finally able to get back to work that moneys from the agreement could be released to take some pressure off the people who live in poverty, people whom we are supposed to help. Additional money was able to be spent on discretionary support, which is a lifeline to the people whom the Trussell Trust talked about.”