Kellie Armstrong
Strangford · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the Fisheries, Aquaculture and Water Environment Bill. It is timely and important. Miss McIlveen, a fellow MLA for the Strangford constituency, has just spoken.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill reflects the realities of the post-Brexit landscape by aligning protections here with those in other UK jurisdictions and the UK Fisheries Act. That consistency is important for standards, enforcement and international confidence in our products.”
“Last year, I met the Department and we discussed that. The opportunities for seaweed farming in Strangford lough are wonderful, and the opportunities from seaweed that Queen's University has identified are incredible. We are lucky to have those opportunities on our doorstep, as long as there is licensing and it is properly looked after.”
“Moving beyond managing individual fisheries, the Bill recognises the interconnected nature of our rivers, loughs and seas — an approach that is very much in line with Alliance's commitment to evidence-based environmental policy. The inclusion of a national benefit objective is also significant.”
“A while ago, we saw that commercial bottom trawling had all but decimated the horse mussel population in Strangford lough. It has since been changed to a special area of conservation. That limits a lot of activity in the lough, which is not a bad thing considering that horse mussels are coming back.”
“They allow for timely action on lower-level offences without over-burdening the courts while still acting as a meaningful deterrent. If only everybody were acting properly, we would not need to have those deterrents, but we are where we are, and the Bill hopes to improve upon that.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,635 lines we hold for Kellie Armstrong, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 34 of 53.
“Importantly, clause 5(2) states that, in clause 5(1)(a):”
“That subtle change will enable integrated education, at long last, to be placed on an equal footing with other education sectors. <BR /> <BR />In clause 5(1), I have defined that promotion means”
“I expect that the Department will continue to engage the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education (NICIE), as the Department already recognises and engages with that body as part of its encouragement and facilitation of integrated education. <BR /> <BR />Clause 4 amends the Education Reform (Northern Ireland) Order 1989 to include a duty to promote integrated education as well as to encourage and facilitate it. Clause 4 also amends the Education Act (Northern Ireland) 2014 to require the Education Authority to”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 2 defines the purpose of integrated education. While some Members have commented to me that all schools have that purpose, the unique position of integrated schools is that the promotion of equality, good relations and respect for identity, diversity and community cohesion happens every day in every class under one roof, as children are educated together, learning about themselves and their friends together from teachers, non-teaching staff and governors who are all integrating. <BR /> <BR />In clause 3, I have not defined what the advisory body is, as it is left to the Department to recognise any body that includes in its objectives the provision of support and advice to the Department in its promotion of integrated education.”
“That means that the Education and Training Inspectorate can now measure whether an integrated school is, indeed, meeting the meanings laid down by this legislation. An integrated school will be able to confirm how integrated it is not only by the number of types of pupils but through its intentional promotion, protection and improvement of its ethos of diversity, respect and understanding between those of different cultures and religious beliefs and none, between those of different socio-economic backgrounds and between those of different abilities. To clarify, that applies to pupils, teaching staff, non-teaching staff and the board of governors. As we all know, an integrated school does not just consider the ethos of the school from the viewpoint of pupils attending; it seeks a balance across all persons involved in the school body.”
“Mr Justice Treacy, who confirmed integrated education as a stand-alone concept, said that the term cannot be used to describe any other school, no matter how mixed or how others might consider themselves to be. <BR /> <BR />I refer Members to clause 10(1), which requires that”
“The case outcome confirmed that the article 64 duty in the Education Reform (Northern Ireland) Order 1989 refers to integrated schools alone, not shared or mixed schools. The ruling reaffirmed that the Department of Education has a statutory duty to fulfil article 64 of the 1989 Order. It is also important at this point to confirm that the requirements to create or become an integrated school, as set down in the 1989 Order, do not change. <BR /> <BR />While schools, other sectoral bodies and even politicians, may use the word "integrated" to describe mixed schools, they are not integrated. Only schools that fulfil the requirements as set down in the 1989 Order can legally be recognised as integrated.”
“I confirm to the House that that meaning of integrated education does not replace or change Mr Justice Treacy's ruling, in which he emphasised integrated education as a "standalone concept". That is:”
“The new meaning of integrated education adds further information to what is already in other legislation. <BR /> <BR />Clause 1(2) defines an "integrated school" as”
“is already stated in the Education Reform (Northern Ireland) Order 1989 and that clause 1(1)(b) has already been agreed by the House in the Shared Education Act (Northern Ireland) 2016. However, I have added to and updated the definition to reflect the changing demographics of Northern Ireland and the actual mix of children who attend integrated schools. I have added children of other faiths "and of none", "socio-economic" and "different abilities". None of those additions causes any issue for existing integrated schools. There are children of many faiths and of none. There are children who receive free school meals and those who do not. Children with differing vocational skills, special educational needs (SEN) and academic abilities attend integrated schools.”
“I draw it to Members' attention that the term:”
“Not just at the moment, please. I would like to go through the clauses. <BR /> <BR />The definition in clause 1(1) continues:”
“Not just at the moment, thank you. I will move on to the clauses, and maybe we will come back to that. <BR /> <BR />The explanatory and financial memorandum (EFM) provides you with commentary on the 15 clauses of the Bill. I will now detail the clauses as introduced. <BR /> <BR />Clause 1 defines the meaning of "integrated education" as:”
“Finally, the ninth objective requires integrated schools to be inspected by the Education and Training Inspectorate (ETI) team as part of its usual programme of inspections to ensure that they uphold their integrated ethos.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill will require funding to be dedicated by the Department of Education, according to the remit of the strategy, to be available for the facilitation of integrated education and resourcing in the Department itself of a dedicated team for that purpose. The seventh objective requires a standardised and accredited diversity and all-inclusive module on how to teach in a truly inclusive and integrated classroom for primary and secondary schools and for PGCE for schools in initial teacher training provided by the teacher training education providers. The eighth objective requires the Department to ensure that there is a dedicated departmental resource to help schools to strengthen their ethos and to make sure that all integrated schools put an integrated ethos at the heart of everything that they do now and in the future.”
“Secondly, it will require the Department to ensure that there is proper auditing of demand on a biennial basis for integrated education in Northern Ireland by area. Thirdly, it will require the Education Authority (EA) to report on and publish the auditing of demand to the Department and take account of it in budget and planning decisions. Fourthly, it will establish a presumption to overarch area-based planning that all new schools should be either integrated or otherwise non-single identity schools. The fifth objective is to require the development of an integrated education strategy that will be published six months after the commencement of the Act. It will report on the implementation of the Act, along with regular biennial reporting on the implementation of the provisions of the Act, a post-legislative scrutiny clause.”
“I extend my sincere thanks to Mr Greenberg and the staff in our Bill Office, including James Gilsenan and Denise Morgan, who patiently produced the Bill. It is the first private Member's Bill in this mandate that has been crafted with the support of our Bill Office. The legislation has followed all of the stages, consultation requirements and drafting processes outlined in Standing Orders, and it is within the legislative competence of the Northern Ireland Assembly. <BR /> <BR />The Integrated Education Bill has nine policy objectives. The first is to place a duty on the Department of Education and other education bodies to promote — not merely to encourage and facilitate — the development of integrated education. That will require the Department to ensure that resources are dedicated to the sector for that purpose.”
“<BR /> <BR />I wrote again to the Minister of Education and the Committee for Education to ensure that no similar legislation was going to be brought forward and that nothing had changed in the interim. On that basis, the Bill was submitted to the Speaker and subsequently allowed to go forward for drafting. I admit that I found the drafting, like this debate, quite nerve-racking. When you have worked on a Bill for so long and there has been such in-depth research and discussion, it is hard to hand it over to someone else. However, the drafter, Mr Daniel Greenberg, who is a barrister specialising in legislation and was commissioned by the Assembly's Bill Office, managed to convey in legislative language what I hope to bring forward.”
“I also had face-to-face discussions with educationalists, academics, including the local teacher training colleges, and many organisations and individuals interested in the provision of education here. I wrote to the Minister of Education and the Committee for Education to seek clarification that no similar legislation was being brought forward. <BR /> <BR />After the collapse of the Assembly in 2017, I continued to work on the Bill to refine and define content. When the Assembly returned in January 2020, the Bill was accepted by the Speaker and allowed to continue with the existing consultation findings and the work already completed by the Assembly research team to be included. I thank the Bill Office for its work to enable the Bill to reach this stage.”
“I will just take a breath because I am quite nervous on the Bill. Thank you to all in the House for coming along to the Second Stage of the Integrated Education Bill. I appreciate that the Bill is the last piece of legislation that we will debate before the summer recess and I am keeping you from a summer spent in your constituency offices, so my apologies. <BR /> <BR />The Bill makes provision for integrated education and its promotion. It will also provide for reform and expansion of integrated education. The sole topic of the Bill is education. <BR /> <BR />In advance of coming to the House, I consulted over an initial period of 12 weeks during the 2016-2017 mandate. That consultation took the form of online surveys, one for adults and one for children, resulting in over 800 written responses.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am absolutely delighted that officials confirmed, when they met us in Committee, that no councillor will be denied a vote, placed on mute or silenced, and that points of order can be raised; that no chief executive, mayor or chairperson can deny our council colleagues the ability to take part in debate and play their role in the democratic process; and that regulations may not be made unless they are approved by the Assembly. Given that protection, I am delighted, on behalf of the Alliance Party, to support the Bill at Final Stage.”
“I am pleased that the future of council meetings will be considered and that this issue does not relate only to COVID or the pandemic. How our councillors and, indeed, we in this place take our meetings in future will be different. At long last, we will be able to afford councillors access to remote meetings if they are on parental leave or if they have a long-term illness. When that measure is considered and brought forward, it can only be welcomed.”
“I am content that the Department and the Minister will engage with councillors and council bodies when bringing forward those regulations. We all agree that co-production and co-design are the way forward for all legislation. <BR /> <BR />I, too, thank Julie Broadway and Anthony Carleton for their work and for engaging with the Committee when they did not have to. Thank you to the mayor — apologies; I have councils on the brain this morning — to the Minister for allowing those officials to meet the Committee at such short notice. It was much appreciated, and it helped to clear up a lot of my concerns. <BR /> <BR />I am grateful that the Minister took on board the concerns raised by the Committee and that changes were made. That is how we do legislation in this place; we can work together.”
“As others have said, accelerated passage is not always the best way to do legislation. However, we all recognise the pressures that our councils have been under. We know that the legislation that allowed them to have remote access to meetings expired early in May and that, since then, as the Committee Chair mentioned, councils have been trying workarounds and hiring large premises to hold their meetings. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate the concerns raised by others at Further Consideration Stage that changes to the Local Government Act 2014 were being made and that the legislation would supersede standing orders of councils. The new clause 2(5) of the Bill specifies:”
“That means that, where there are concerns about them, those regulations will have to come before the House. We can then scrutinise and have input into the regulations, and I welcome that. <BR /> <BR />I will not say too much more other than to thank the Minister for the Bill. Our councils need remote access continued as soon as possible. Given that this is Further Consideration Stage and that tomorrow we are doing Final Stage, I ask the Minister when she hopes that the Bill will be given Royal Assent so that our councils can continue without there being any further delay to their remote access.”
“It is good, right and proper that we should put that in Hansard so that they can read that for themselves. <BR /> <BR />I am delighted by proposed new clause 2(5), which states:”
“I am delighted to see that, because a number of council colleagues from various parties, including my own, have been concerned that their voice has been hampered as a result of using remote access in this recent period. Some have been denied the ability to vote when participating remotely, while some have been placed on mute and silenced. They are not allowed to raise points of order, for instance. <BR /> <BR />The officials kindly confirmed for me that this legislation means that that will no longer be the case. Every one of our council colleagues will have the same level of access to speak and vote in their council chamber. That means that no chief executive, mayor or chairperson can deny our council colleagues their democratic right.”
“I thank the Minister for having open ears and listening to the Committee's concerns in previous debates and for tabling a new clause. <BR /> <BR />We did ask for clarification. Although the Committee did not have to have representation at it, officials did come along. I thank Julie Broadway and Anthony Carleton for their time spent taking us through the amendments that are before the House. <BR /> <BR />Proposed new clause 2(2) states:”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. If you hear barking, it is not coming from me.”
“I thank the Minister for his commitment to taking on the issue. It is a very important issue for me and for many across Northern Ireland. Indeed, just before I came into the Chamber, I saw an email that Action for Children has sent to all MLAs to provide an update on young carers. Having just left school for the year, they face a summer without respite or day centre support. What support will you ask the trusts to provide to young carers so that they do not become further exhausted before going back to school in September?”
“Will the Minister provide his initial assessment of the impact of the Functioning of Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act on the workings of the Executive and special advisers?”
“Minister, will you work with the Minister for Communities to lobby the Treasury to allow councils to utilise capitalisation schemes, given the additional financial strain caused by the pandemic? Can you reassure the House that businesses will not face a cliff edge at the end of reliefs in April 2022?”
“How does that fix the issue? There is therefore a lot of work to be done. Further education colleges are an excellent way forward. They can provide some of the solutions and some of the help so that we can meet future climate change requirements. For now, however, people are living with black walls, and that is not good enough.”
“While the Housing Executive is able to sell off properties, however, with the money going into a big pot and all that maintenance still not being caught up on, we really need to think about Housing Executive revitalisation. It is not fair to many of our older people who are living in homes that are not fit for human habitation. Mould is horrible. It smells. It gets into people's clothes. It is getting into people and making them sick. <BR /> <BR />I thank Mr Easton for bringing the motion to the House. He has talked about the issue for years. He has talked about cavity wall insulation for years. I went into one house in which there was a pool of water on the person's living room floor because the water had run straight down the cavity wall and into the living room. Another skim of plaster had been put on the wall.”
“As Mr Butler said, we in the Assembly need to work together. We cannot allow people in our communities to live in houses in which there is black mould on the walls, the clothes in their wardrobe are covered in mould and the mattress on their child's bed has mould on it, all because the home is damp. It is not condensation. I do not know anybody in Northern Ireland whose breath is so hot that it will create enough condensation for a bed to be covered in mould. <BR /> <BR />The Housing Executive has an enormous stock, and it needs a heck of a lot of work. I will back the Minister to the hilt to get as much money as possible to put into the Housing Executive to fix those houses.”
“<BR /> <BR />I looked at the Housing Executive's Decent Homes Standard. Really? Although many Housing Executive staff work hard and try their best, those very old homes could not possibly pass its house condition survey. Will the Minister consider bringing in some means of testing the mould to see whether it makes homes dangerous for human habitation? <BR /> <BR />A consultation has begun on cavity wall insulation. The Minister has updated the Housing Council on the revitalisation of the Housing Executive. A lot of things are going on. When I look at some of the reports that we have been provided with, however, I can see that £32 million will just about scratch the surface of the remedial work needed to get rid of the category 1 hazards in 1,559 houses. That is just damp and mould growth. There are a heck of a lot of older houses.”
“Really? Damp and mould are key triggers of asthma attacks and can lead to rarer lung conditions, such as aspergillosis. Forgive me, but I probably pronounced that incorrectly. We must remember that mould is dangerous. A while back, I wrote to the Department for Communities to ask whether mould is tested. I was told that it is not. Some of the homes of that landlord, the Housing Executive, are therefore incredibly old and have bad cases of mould in them, but that mould is not tested. If someone who lives in one of those houses gets ill, what does that mean? It means that they are probably looking at a limited life; at illness, with further cost to the health service; at restricted or limited mobility; and, potentially, at lung disease. Those are all things that should not be put upon people because of the house in which they live.”
“Thank you very much to the proposer of the motion, which we absolutely support. <BR /> <BR />Like other Members, I have been invited into constituents' houses, albeit before COVID, to see the state of their home. When one goes into someone's home, looks up into the corner of their bedroom and sees that it is encrusted and black with mould, or goes into their bathroom and sees that underneath the sink is thick with mould that has started to form circles of spores, and one knows that, in that household, lives a vulnerable person, small child or someone who is not very mobile and cannot get about much, one asks, "What sort of Northern Ireland do we live in when we have people living in such conditions?". <BR /> <BR />As Mr Durkan said, many of those people are told that it is condensation and that they do not open their windows enough.”
“Does the Minister agree that travel agents are key high street businesses and are vital in supporting our air routes and airports in particular? Therefore, if there is further money coming forward, will he seek to bring forward a further support package through his Department, as opposed to it coming through the Executive Office, in order to target travel agents in particular, because they are so important to our air industry?”
“The Troubles permanent disablement payments scheme has not even been created, yet it has been trashed. <BR /> <BR />We have to look after our victims and those who are applying for PIP. It is up to all of us to take that forward and make those improvements.”
“Given that the Department is working on a disability strategy, I absolutely hope that the expert panel that is responsible for that strategy will ensure that the scandalous treatment that was dealt out to people who applied for PIP will be addressed and that appropriate direction will be provided to stop that treatment from continuing. <BR /> <BR />I call on people to stop harming victims. Today, we heard it conflated that the Victims' Payments Board will use the same system. It may use the same company, but it is definitely not the same system. The Victims' Payments Board is working to put out the criteria for that service, and it is independent of the Department of Justice. We need to stop harming victims, and I am very disappointed by the BBC's 'Nolan Show', which has upset a number of victims on the issue.”
“That is not good enough, and the failings land firmly with the Minister. <BR /> <BR />The evidence supports a finding of systemic maladministration, and I am so sorry for those who have suffered unnecessarily. The Minister must act, and I believe that she will. She has decided to extend Capita's contract while she prepares to bring assessments in-house. However, unless significant improvements are made, the same assessors will be transferred to the Department under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (TUPE) and will continue to deliver processes that are not good enough. <BR /> <BR />We all know that DWP created the system. Unfortunately, we are delivering it here. People with disabilities should not be treated so appallingly by the very system that is supposed to support them.”
“I welcome, as others have, the stark but well-researched report by the Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman, which identified systemic maladministration in the PIP system. I call on the Minister to outline urgently her planned actions to rectify that situation. <BR /> <BR />Like other Members, I deal with constituents who have tried to navigate the PIP system. They have complained and said that the system is not fit for purpose. Claimants have raised constant concerns about the amount of paperwork and the application process, including the assessment interviews, and the report confirms those concerns. I absolutely accept that some claimants proceed through the system. Others, however, have been forced to appeal and go through a tough tribunal just to allow them to access support and live independently.”
“On the accelerated passage point, we said in Committee that the Bill absolutely needed to come forward, because we know that our councils need us to get a move on with this. I appreciate that there has been a bit of toing and froing about clauses today, but will the Minister confirm her thoughts on how the removal of clause 2 will work and on how we can ensure that hybrid meetings will be in place? I ask her to clarify that part of clause 3 and also clause 5.”
“I know that it specifically refers to the financial year 2022-23, but does that apply to other years?”
“The provision to grant an exemption from an audit is concerning. I appreciate that the Minister has said that it would be in consultation with the local government auditor, but if there is one thing that we have learned over this last period, it is that audits are crucial in ensuring that public money is spent appropriately. Our councils go out of their way to do that. I understand the rationale behind the provision in clause 3, but we need flexibility. Dear love the council teams: the guys who set the rates and bring forward the financial packages. Most of us in the House have been councillors before, so we understand that. However, an exemption is a significant step. <BR /> <BR />I would also appreciate it — if others do not bring it up — if the Minister could talk us through clause 5(2), which states:”
“<BR /> <BR />I would like the Minister to give us an update on clause 3, which has raised concerns. It will allow flexibility when it comes to audits, but I have a concern about clause 3(2), where it says:”
“Nevertheless, we have to be aware of governance and ensure that councillors, who are democratically elected, have a voice. The economy is also a consideration. There are concerns about how some committees meet and whether fair and open access is provided for the public. I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say about that. <BR /> <BR />Clause 1 is out at the moment, but the Committee will be happy to work with the Minister to ensure that hybrid meetings can continue. As we look to the future, the Committee on Procedures is looking at how hybrid meetings could be used for people who are on parental leave or who are experiencing a long-term illness. There are many options and opportunities that we could create for councillors by maintaining such meetings.”
“I want to support the Minister in ensuring a fair and effective democracy and to enable that to be followed across Northern Ireland. No councillor, irrespective of their political opinion, must be prevented from voting, nor should we prevent their voices from being heard. Some councils have limited access to speaking rights and have muted councillors, preventing points of order being made. I would like to see that situation improved as we move forward. <BR /> <BR />Hybrid meetings will be with us for the long term. They are something to consider when it comes to reducing carbon emissions. They help with road safety: many councillors work full-time during the day and have to drive to council meetings at night, which is outside the scope of road safety for driving at work, so it helps with that.”
“<BR /> <BR />When the Bill came forward, we received the papers very late, which gave us only a very short period in which to consider them. I thank the Minister for signalling her intent to remove clause 2. I have a concern that removing clause 2 may remove the intent behind what we were trying to do, which is to allow councils to continue to have hybrid meetings after the deadline passes. We know that Westminster did not come through for us, and it is a pity that we were not able to get our own legislation in place for 7 May so that councils and councillors would not have had to take the alternative actions that they had to. <BR /> <BR />In considering any future amendments to the Bill or to what will replace clause 2, I ask the Minister to think about how we can take a consistent approach to hybrid meetings across all councils.”