Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“As the Member will be aware, legal proceedings are under way, and if there is litigation in relation to a case, I am limited in what I can say. However, the Economy Minister has provided written ministerial statements on the issue, and I refer the Member to those.”
“The 2030 and 2050 emissions reductions targets in the Act were agreed by the Northern Ireland Assembly unanimously at the Bill's Third, and final, Reading in 2022. Subsequently, the 2040 target and the first three carbon budgets were approved by the Assembly in December 2024. My Department's focus is on delivering on those targets and the other requirements in the Act that, whilst challenging, are achievable. Therefore, I have no plans to review the legal targets that the Assembly has previously agreed.”
“Given the challenges that we face from TB, I am very grateful that all the stakeholders around the table agreed a blueprint for the way forward, and I am committed to delivering the actions arising from that. The blueprint is based on three pillars: people, cattle and wildlife. I have been very clear that there has to be a wildlife intervention in order to allow us to deal with the challenges of TB and how they affect family farms in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />We will consult on the wildlife intervention in spring next year. It is important that everyone comes back and gives their responses to that. Once we have considered the responses, we will set out the way forward, and that will include legislation.”
“Thank you, Aoife. The review that was undertaken by the independent panel — I again put on record my thanks to it — recommended a range of actions, one of which is about how we can work better together. Another recommendation was about the need for memorandums of understanding between bodies, and I will seek to take that forward, because it will be really beneficial for us. I recognise, as you said, that environmental challenges do not respect borders, and we need to work together on that. We are ready to do that at official and ministerial level, and I am committed to addressing those issues head-on.”
“We all know about the environmental challenges that we have in Northern Ireland. There are the situations with waste crime, Mobuoy and Lough Neagh, and the list continues. The case for an independent environmental protection agency is clear. It really frustrates and disappoints me that the DUP is taking the approach that it is. Its lack of care for the environment and consideration of the need for us to take further action to better protect it for future generations is deeply disappointing, but I will continue the work that I do because it is important that we look after our environment for everyone in Northern Ireland.”
“Thank you, Gerry. My passion for and commitment to environmental protection and setting up an independent environmental protection agency are on the record, and I restate them here today. I would like to see an agency legislated for in this mandate. <BR /> <BR />I am extremely disappointed in the outcome of the vote last night, when some of my DUP Executive colleagues voted against the motion to set up an independent environmental protection agency. That is extremely disappointing and is yet another example of our need to reform these institutions so that they can deliver for all the people in Northern Ireland.”
“Following public consultation, firm policy proposals would be brought back to the Executive to enable my Department to draft and implement the legislation that is needed to set up the body. <BR /> <BR />The costs of inaction are simply too great. I am fully committed to strengthening environmental governance, improving public confidence in our arrangements and, ultimately, reducing environmental degradation, and I will seek the support of the Executive and the Assembly in doing so.”
“I also fully support the independent panel's recommendation to establish an independent environmental protection agency in Northern Ireland as a non-departmental public body (NDPB). It would have functions that would include the oversight of air and water quality, waste management, nature and biodiversity and the marine environment. <BR /> <BR />I am seeking the support of my Executive colleagues to agree, in principle, to the establishment of an independent environmental protection agency in Northern Ireland as a non-departmental public body of DAERA. That agreement would allow us to move swiftly to look in greater detail at the powers, functions and funding of the new body.”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will answer questions 1, 7 and 12 together. <BR /> <BR />First, I put on record my thanks to the independent panel for carrying out its extensive review of environmental governance, and I welcome the findings. The panel has made 32 recommendations that, taken together, aim to deliver a governance system that it considers to be robust, trustworthy and capable of meeting Northern Ireland's environmental obligations whilst restoring public confidence. <BR /> <BR />Recommendation 2 states that the DAERA website should offer a clear list of environmental legislation in Northern Ireland, including information on whether it has commenced. Sources of environmental law are complex, and I agree that we should provide greater clarity and transparency in that area to improve confidence and trust in the system.”
“Will the Member acknowledge that the ability to block things at the Executive and our resulting inability to progress something on which the will of the Assembly has been stated is damaging our environment, which is why we want to reform the institutions?”
“Tonight is the time for making your mind up.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I stated last week in my oral statement, this is a pivotal moment for Northern Ireland. I urge Members to put their support on the record, not just in principle but in practice in the voting Lobbies, so that we can move forward together in setting up an independent environmental protection agency. The people of Northern Ireland expect and deserve better environmental protection, greater accountability and a system that they can trust. I am committed to delivering that. I hope that the Assembly will join me in supporting the establishment of an independent environmental protection agency. <BR /> <BR />As the Bucks Fizz song 'Making Your Mind Up' goes:”
“If we can advise and guide as much as possible, and that brings about the change that is needed, we will not need to enforce. However, when pollution happens despite our best efforts to educate and inform, and regardless where the pollution comes from, we need to move swiftly to enforcement and to ensure that sufficient deterrents and resourcing are in place for that. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that some Members have expressed scepticism about the creation of another public body. Let me be clear: this is not about bureaucracy; it is about delivering effective, accountable and independent environmental protection. There are many non-departmental public bodies throughout Northern Ireland that perform a vital role. This one should be no different.”
“A regulator that operates independently should give greater confidence that issues are being tackled proportionately and regulation applied fairly. That is about more accountable regulation and, through that, creating a fair and more level playing field for all. The independent EPA will operate under a clear legislative framework, with oversight by an independent board and scrutiny mechanisms that are established by the Assembly. It will have a clear mission, with measurable environmental outcomes. <BR /> <BR />I have been clear in the past that enforcement should be the last stage in the process to ensure compliance when all other options have failed. Education will play a crucial role in how we shape our governance structures going forward. Prevention is key to all that.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the funding issue, my officials will consider detailed costs to establish a new independent environmental protection agency and will bring formal proposals back on that in due course, if I get the green light to proceed with an independent environmental protection agency in principle. However, that should not be seen as a barrier at this early stage. What we need to agree is that the status quo is no longer sustainable. Funding issues can be worked through. The enabling legislation will include safeguards to protect against underfunding, similar to those that are in place for the Office for Environmental Protection, which replaced the role that was previously undertaken by the European Commission. <BR /> <BR />We should have nothing to fear from an independent environmental protection agency.”
“A key part of the new governance system will be to look at the functions of NIEA and other bodies and to remove any duplication. The overall intention is to streamline the new independent EPA and ensure that it is effective and efficient in order to, for example, allow a speedy response to planning applications. <BR /> <BR />I am acutely aware of the shared environmental challenges across these islands. Pollution and environmental crimes do not respect borders. Through a new independent environmental protection agency, I want to foster a culture of improved collaboration in which we all work towards better environmental outcomes by sharing information and best practice. There are existing structures in place for that. I will seek to build on those through formal memorandums of understanding.”
“<BR /> <BR />Aside from the recommendations on an independent environmental protection agency, the report makes a number of recommendations that fall within my Department. In parallel with our work to prepare an independent EPA, I will work with my officials to take forward those recommendations. Some aspects already align with ongoing work or our own plans for improvement. <BR /> <BR />At this stage, I will address some concerns that were raised after my oral statement last week. I understand that Members will have concerns around the delay in establishing a new independent EPA. I assure you, however, that the review was critical to understanding the complex environmental governance landscape post EU exit and to charting a practical way forward.”
“I am therefore seeking Executive agreement to establish an independent environmental protection agency as a non-departmental public body of DAERA. A public consultation will follow securing agreement, after which firm policy proposals will be brought back to the Executive to enable legislation to be drafted and implemented. I am fully committed to progressing that work at pace, but in order to do so, I need urgent support from my Executive and Assembly colleagues. The window of opportunity is tight, but, with swift decisions, full and unconditional backing and a willingness to work at pace from both the Executive and the Assembly, we can legislate for an independent EPA in this mandate. We need to see some of the current momentum and desire for change. How people vote on the motion is important.”
“I find it strange that Members of a party that purports to have a concern about other issues believe that we should have a different set-up in Northern Ireland when it comes to the environment or on rights and equality for people in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The costs of inaction and of not having an independent environmental protection agency in Northern Ireland are stark. The Mobuoy illegal waste site will cost between £100 million and £700 million to remediate. This year alone, my Department is spending over £17 million to address the crisis in Lough Neagh. Those figures illustrate the economic consequences of failed governance and non-compliance. Inaction also leads to degraded ecosystems, public health risks and lost opportunities for sustainable growth. We must act decisively to reverse that trend.”
“The model would ensure a clear separation between policymaking and regulation, aligning with best practice across these islands. It would also provide the necessary independence to build public trust whilst maintaining accountability to the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland is currently the only region — the only region — in the UK and Ireland without an independent EPA. I fail to see how any Member here today would want to continue to support that position. The absence of an independent EPA undermines public trust and confidence, weakens compliance and hampers our ability to deliver meaningful environmental outcomes.”
“Those recommendations aim to deliver a governance system that is robust, trustworthy and capable of meeting our environmental obligations whilst restoring public confidence. At the heart of the report is a recommendation to establish an independent environmental protection agency as a non-departmental public body sponsored by DAERA. The proposed EPA would be responsible for:”
“<BR /> <BR />The independent review of environmental governance, led by Dr Viviane Gravey and supported by Diane Ruddock and John McCallister, has provided a comprehensive and evidence-based road map for reform. I thank the independent panel and the related stakeholder reference group for their rigorous work, which included the consideration of 590 responses to a public call for evidence, three public events and extensive stakeholder engagement across Northern Ireland, Great Britain and Ireland. The panel's final report, which was published on 21 October, sets out 32 recommendations under four key themes: clarity and coherence; meaningful independence; better compliance; and transparency and accountability.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Opposition motion on the establishment of an independent environmental protection agency for Northern Ireland, and I thank the leader of the Opposition for tabling it. From the outset, I make it clear that I have long held the view that Northern Ireland needs an independent EPA. That belief is rooted in the clear and growing evidence that our current environmental governance arrangements are not fit for purpose and are failing everyone. For too long, our environment and nature have suffered from a lack of robust protections. The consequences are visible to us all and are increasingly severe, from the crisis in Lough Neagh to waste crime, as exemplified by one of Europe's largest illegal dumps at Mobuoy.”
“— and they have my support. It is important that we respect individuals who work in public services in Northern Ireland. That is what I do.”
“These are officials whom I have respect for. They are part of the Northern Ireland Civil Service —”
“I will seek support from others on the proposal. I will say to you, Colin, that the officials who work in the Northern Ireland Environment Agency —.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will close by saying two things. First, the Chamber causes me great concern. It is nothing more than a toxic thunderdome in its engagement. Some people love that, and I think that that is poor. Secondly, I am happy to receive analysis and scrutiny on issues, but people need to make those points on issues of substance.”
“People outside Northern Ireland look to this place with despair when they see people who turn around and hold these institutions to ransom over issues. We are focused on delivering for the citizens of Northern Ireland and working in a power-sharing Executive. It is difficult. Believe me, working in a power-sharing Executive is hard. Your party knows that as well, because it has been in the Executive before. You have to work with your partners in government, and they are partners in government. We do not see eye to eye on many different issues, but we have to work together. That is what I have sought to do since I became Minister, and I will continue to do that. However, if people turn around and we start going back to the world of demands and whether the institutions are up or down, I despair.”
“Sorry, but if you are not across the detail, that is not my problem. I set out the need for support, in principle, in regard to the agency. If we get that support in principle, we will work through the costings, but the costs of inaction are very significant. It is a no-brainer that we want to progress this.”
“The Alliance Party sought to progress it via an amendment to the climate change legislation, and your party did not even turn up.”
“I set out the difference that it will make in my statement, as did the review report. If the Member does not understand that, I ask that he read it again.”
“Sorry, but you are trying to turn around and do that. When I have looked for support on measures, you have not supported me. That is the truth, and sometimes the truth is inconvenient for you.”
“— who pushed for the return of Going for Growth? It was the SDLP, time and time again. You may turn round and pretend that you support the environment, but the reality is otherwise.”
“When I came to this place to look for support to remove the cap on penalties for repeat polluters, your party did not support me. Who was it in Fermanagh and Omagh District Council —”
“When you were asking your multiple questions, I was thinking about what the "S" in the SDLP stands for. I think that it is "sound bite".”
“Thank you, Declan. The independent panel's report was useful in teasing all that out. We have a very different regulatory landscape since leaving the EU. <BR /> <BR />SES supports district councils to process applications, and I respect that. NIEA has a separate role in planning applications. That would remain largely the case in the independent environmental protection agency. It is important to respect that. The Office for Environmental Protection's oversight function will remain in place and will replace, in part, the role of the European Commission. We should not underestimate the impact that leaving the EU has had on Northern Ireland. We all know that. We see it in not only the UK economy but the environment. There have been significant impacts and a changed landscape, and I am seeking to address that.”
“The list is endless, unfortunately, Nuala. We have Lough Neagh, Mobuoy, nature decline and issues with air quality. Northern Ireland is a laggard in the environment. Whenever I say that or look to take action, I get vilified — vilified — because people are not prepared to take difficult decisions. This is a point of decision for this place, and people need to back me on it.”
“There is a window of opportunity here for us to set up an independent environmental protection agency in Northern Ireland. I need support, in principle, to do that. We will then go through the process that we are required to do, which is consultation. Sometimes I am criticised for doing too much consultation, but I am legally required to do it. We will then look to get Executive support for drafting legislation. With the Assembly's cooperation, which is critical — if people want this, they need to work with me — we can legislate for it by the end of the mandate. However, people need to put their money where their mouth is and support me in establishing the agency. There are many issues in my Department that I work night and day on. People need to understand that this is a priority for me and to support me on it.”
“The review recommends that DAERA exit the current SORPI arrangement with Northern Ireland Water. Further to that, I will bring a paper to my Executive colleagues.”
“I am on the record as consistently saying that the separate regulatory arrangement that has been in place for Northern Ireland Water since its establishment is not fit for purpose. The idea that NI Water often gets a bye ball on the pollution of our waterways is not acceptable. <BR /> <BR />I will quote from the review:”
“One of the review recommendations, which I support, was that the independent environmental protection agency be able to set its own enforcement policy. It is important that it has that ability. That will answer a lot of your questions. If we get agreement in principle and people say, "Yes, we are on board with this. We want it" — to date, I have not had that from around the House; I am making a real effort to get support for this so that we can move it forward — we can scope out the details on the functions and the drafting of legislation.”
“Now is the time to ensure that we end the situation whereby Northern Ireland is an outlier by not having an independent body for environmental protection.”
“The report has set out the way forward, and I thank the panel for doing that. A lot of people said to me that they wanted an independent environmental protection agency, but, when I asked, "What would that look like? What would its functions be?", they were not able to answer. The report has answered that, particularly in the context of our leaving the EU and of the different arrangements that we have. <BR /> <BR />The non-departmental public body would have not just the necessary independence but accountability, which is important. It would have specific structures, such as an independent board, and the functions that I set out. We have many non-departmental public bodies in Northern Ireland that play a valuable role; for example, the Arts Council and Sport NI.”
“Ultimately, political leadership will be required here to ensure that sufficient deterrents are in place and that the environmental protection agency, as an independent non-departmental public body, can use the proper enforcement mechanisms. It is really important that we give it teeth. <BR /> <BR />I am progressing a consultation on the fisheries and water environment Bill. When I bring that to the Executive, I will need their support for it. I will also need the Assembly's support to ensure that we have legislation in place to provide sufficient deterrents on the issue of water quality and in so many other areas.”
“Thank you, Colm. I have a couple of things to say. First, I thank all the staff who work in the Northern Ireland Environment Agency. I feel extremely privileged to work with them. I was with them this morning at an event on invasive species, and I will be with them throughout the week. They are good staff, they are working really hard under significant resource constraints, and I am very grateful to them. <BR /> <BR />I have set out the resourcing issue. Ultimately, it is about the budgets that are allocated, but we need to have mechanisms in place to call it out if the environment agency, as a non-departmental public body, is being underfunded. <BR /> <BR />One of the other issues is that, under the legislation, the penalties available to the agency would be set by the Assembly. That will not be a silver bullet.”
“The cost of inaction and the lack of efficient and robust protections for our environment is substantial. The cost of remediation on the Mobuoy site could be between £100 million and £700 million, and, this year, my Department is spending over £17 million on the crisis at Lough Neagh. I could continue. The business case is very clear. We cannot allow ourselves to get into the same situation again. We also need to restore people's trust and confidence in environmental protection, because it is at an all-time low and we have to turn it around. I am setting out a way forward to do that.”
“That is an important recommendation. <BR /> <BR />The other issue is in relation to accountability. There is a recommendation in the review that I have passed on to the Speaker about the scrutiny mechanisms of the Assembly in regard to the non-departmental public body. That has merit as well. <BR /> <BR />On the linkage to Ashers, I am lost, to be honest.”
“Right. When it comes to funding, the independent review clearly sets that out. I will quote from it:”
“I thank the Member for her support. It is appreciated. The report sets out quite a lot when it comes to the independent environmental protection agency and the other issues that the Member has highlighted. We need to have much more joined-up working between Departments and agencies in Northern Ireland but, when it comes to regulators, also on North/South and east-west bases. That is why those memorandums of understanding are set out. There is work that I need Executive approval for, but there is other stuff that we can take forward as a Department. We should do that, because the environmental challenges do not stop at the border. We need to cooperate. We already do that through established functions and structures, but we need to solidify that through memorandums of understanding. I am keen to work with officials to take that forward.”
“We need an independent environmental protection agency that is properly funded and properly resourced so that we can turn around responses to planning applications and allow people to move forward on all the issues about which they are asking for advice from the Northern Ireland Environment Agency. That will be critical. It will be absolutely fundamental that we are able to change that and turn it around. We have many non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs) in Northern Ireland. It is lost on me why anyone would oppose this.”