Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“I welcome the report that has been brought to the Assembly today and emphasise that what has been agreed in the report needs to be implemented as soon as possible and ideally before the end of the mandate. As I will detail, it is vital that we all work to ensure that legislation and Standing Orders are updated swiftly to reflect the work and progress that has been made in the House. <BR /> <BR />Updating provisions for an official Opposition will, ultimately, give greater powers to parties that choose not to form part of the Executive, and we welcome that change. The recommendations in the report will ensure that any future official Opposition will be properly funded, allowing for adequate staffing to support the effectiveness of official opposition, and will provide clear, detailed information on the role of opposition versus government.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. To be honest, I am rather underwhelmed by its contents. Stuff like renaming the Department as an eco-Department does not really inspire me, but there is a consultation ahead. One of the key things that are meant to relate to this is the commitment in 'New Decade, New Approach' to establish an independent environmental protection agency. Why has that not been established yet?”
“I thank the deputy First Minister for her response on the support for travel agents. The ability to travel safely around Northern Ireland is paramount. Will the deputy First Minister join me in condemning the hijacking of yet another bus last night, wishing the driver and passengers well and a speedy recovery from the horrendous incident, and calling for the rule of law to be upheld throughout Northern Ireland?”
“We will continue to support them, and thus we support the regulations today.”
“It is also a sad but important task to prepare for the death of a monarch, and the introduction of the further regulations will ensure that we are prepared for that sad moment. <BR /> <BR />The Alliance Party's policy on flags is well known by all in the Chamber and beyond. We will continue to support the flying of the Union flag on designated days, which is, in my personal view, a balanced position, respecting the current constitutional status of Northern Ireland and equality obligations. The Alliance Party stands for a shared society. We know that Northern Ireland works best when we acknowledge that views on issues such as flags, emblems and identity are complex and show respect for one another in discussions on those matters. Our stance on designated days is well known.”
“I am responding to the motion on behalf of the Alliance Party and do so as a party representative, not as a member of the Business Committee. <BR /> <BR />I begin by paying tribute to Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh, who, alongside the Queen, had a strong interest in Northern Ireland and played an important role in building relationships and promoting reconciliation across Northern Ireland. Prince Philip also had a positive impact on many of our young people through their participation in the Duke of Edinburgh's Award scheme. <BR /> <BR />Amendments removing Prince Philip's birthday and Her Majesty The Queen's wedding day from the list of designated days for the flying of the Union flag are necessary arrangements that unfortunately need to be made.”
“Let us take the opportunity to support our local community by ensuring that there is regular water sampling at all our popular bathing areas, good communication of that information, visible safety messaging and the ability to take enforcement action against those endangering the safety of others to ensure that everyone has an enjoyable but, most importantly, safe visit to our coastal areas.”
“The Department for Transport in London has also been consulted, and it proposed changes to legislation to make operators of personal and other recreational watercraft subject to similar safety obligations for the operators of ships and to give enforcement authorities additional prosecution powers in cases of deliberate and negligent misuse. In response to the consultation, I welcomed the proposed changes and highlighted many issues that we face across North Down with regard to the lack of regulation surrounding watercraft. <BR /> <BR />I am proud to live in and represent an area of outstanding natural beauty that people are making the most of.”
“Throughout the summer, I was contacted on a regular basis by constituents who had witnessed near-collisions and accidents between people on motorised watercraft and people swimming in the sea. I fear that it is only a matter of time before a serious incident occurs due to the lack of regulation on the issue. <BR /> <BR />Earlier this year, I was pleased to hear from the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs that his Department is developing options for by-laws to regulate the use of jet skis in marine protected areas. Mr Poots also said that jet ski and sea swimmers' safety would be raised at the Better Beaches Forum, which was due to take place last month. I look forward to hearing about the progress that was made on that incredibly important matter.”
“Such information sessions are a great way to ensure that those who regularly use the water are informed and aware of how to stay safe. However, there is a need for visual information at bathing sites that can be easily accessed by all. Increased investment in bathing water infrastructure, such as bathing shelters and sea wall railings, ladders and slipways, will ensure not only that the users of the coastal areas are safe but that the spaces are inclusive and can be accessed by everyone. We have also heard calls from local swimming groups for the installation of defibrillators. <BR /> <BR />The lack of regulation around recreational and personal watercraft such as jet skis and small motorised boats also poses a huge risk to the swimming and coastal bathing areas.”
“That was a person reporting issues around Helen's Bay and the waste water pumping station. <BR /> <BR />Hundreds of people swim in coastal areas daily, and it is vital that any possible risk to their health by swimming in polluted waters is identified before they take the plunge. Through the EU SWIM project, we saw how easily that can be done. Due to the passion of regular swimmers, it is clear that local swimming groups are prepared to volunteer to do the water-quality sampling. <BR /> <BR />There is also an urgent need for increased investment to promote safety and sea awareness across North Down. At a council level, there has been progress in that, with the Ards and North Down Borough Council, in conjunction with Sport NI, delivering open-water safety awareness webinars.”
“Simply telling people not to enter the sea for 48 hours after heavy rainfall is not good enough. The public should be able to access information about the activity of the waste water pumping stations so that they may make informed decisions about when to enter the water. There is a critical need for regular and wide-ranging water-quality testing across North Down and beyond. A person told me recently that:”
“In response to a question, I was told that it was down to the relevant authorities and councils to alert the public to such matters by the erection of signage. In this day and age, we should have more in place to alert the public to pollution in our bathing areas. <BR /> <BR />Just around the coast from Crawfordsburn beach lies Helen's Bay — another incredibly popular spot for water sports enthusiasts. Also located on that coast is a waste water pumping station. Current guidance states that bathers should avoid the water for 48 hours after heavy rainfall in the area due to large spills potentially being released into the sea. <BR /> <BR />As we all know, heavy rainfall is not uncommon in Northern Ireland, yet many sea swimmers try to visit our coastal bathing areas daily.”
“While I very much welcome the progress that was made with the pilot EU SWIM project at Ballyholme for providing water-quality sampling throughout the bathing season and making that information easily available through an app, such projects need to be implemented and expanded to cover all coastal bathing areas and to ensure that sampling takes place throughout the year. One of the main concerns of local bathers is the lack of communication on water quality. The EU SWIM app demonstrated how easily that can be remedied. <BR /> <BR />Last year, a significant amount of pollution made its way from a field into the river and then into the sea at Crawfordsburn Country Park. A number of local residents got in touch with my office to highlight the lack of notice of that contamination on the beach.”
“Brompton Road and Skippingstone beach in Bangor are not designated bathing areas, but they are popular all year round, as is the area around Orlock and Groomsport. Brompton and Skippingstone even have ladders and railings that make them the perfect spots for getting in and out of the water.”
“It is also important to note that many of North Down's most popular bathing areas are not listed as bathing waters where water quality is tested during the summer months.”
“<BR /> <BR />Sea swimming has become an invaluable outlet throughout the pandemic. Many regular swimmers highlight the positive impact that it has had on their physical and mental health. As the pastime becomes ever more popular, it is vital that we ensure that swimmers bathe in areas that are clean, safe and pleasant for those who are brave enough to enter. <BR /> <BR />Currently, water-quality testing takes place, between 1 June and 15 September each year, at 26 designated bathing water sites across Northern Ireland. However, it only takes a quick glance at Helen's Bay beach, Brompton or any of the other key swimming spots in North Down to see that this is not just a seasonal sport. In fact, the presence of jellyfish throughout many of the summer months mean that many swimmers choose to avoid the water at that time.”
“While running, as I often do, it is great to see many people taking a dip, including my good friend Colin. Colin finds great solace in taking an open-water plunge. He is encouraging me to jump into the water too; maybe one day, I promise. Seeing his head bob up and down near Brompton one morning made me say to myself, "Fair play", and then on I dashed, my feet staying firmly on the ground. <BR /> <BR />A number of organised groups meet regularly to swim together, including the Donaghadee Chunky Dunkers, Helen's Baywatch and the Brompton Belles and Beaux Dippers. Members of those groups, and others from the area, have helped to highlight some of the issues that we will cover this evening, demonstrating the importance of water quality, safety and the local environment to North Down's bathing water users.”
“I thank the Minister for coming to respond to the Adjournment debate. I am grateful for the opportunity to highlight an incredibly important issue, which has become one of increasing concern for many people who live in or visit my constituency of North Down, namely the need for increased water-quality testing and safety measures across North Down's ever popular coastal bathing areas. <BR /> <BR />We are extremely lucky to have a number of beautiful coastal bathing areas on our doorstep, right across North Down. These spots are used by sea swimmers, paddleboarders, kayakers and other open-water sports enthusiasts. Open-water swimming has become increasingly popular in recent years and especially since the beginning of COVID-19 lockdowns.”
“Failure to move the Bill to Second Stage and beyond risks real issues with regard to the pension scheme remaining compliant. Action is needed.”
“Pension schemes are, by their very nature, complex. In essence, the LCM will enshrine in law the right for affected members to receive a deferred choice of which pension scheme benefits they would prefer to take at the point at which they retire. I know people who are personally affected by this. The choice must be given. Everyone must be treated equally. <BR /> <BR />As I outlined, I am a member of the Assembly Members' pension scheme. As a member of that scheme and a previous pension trustee, I am acutely aware of the need to bring the scheme up to date and into line with the laws that we are debating today. It is, therefore, my sincere hope that the Assembly Commission progresses the Assembly Members (Remuneration Board) Bill.”
“At the outset, I declare that I am a member of the Assembly Members' pension scheme and the local government pension scheme. I speak in support of this important legislative consent motion as spokesperson for the Alliance Party on finance but not as a member of the Finance Committee as we do not have a place on that Committee at present. <BR /> <BR />It is vital that our public servants, including devolved tribunal judges, are enrolled in to fair and non-discriminatory pension schemes, so it is welcome that this LCM ensures that regulations are revised. I am sure that we all agree that public servants in Northern Ireland who are enrolled in devolved pension schemes should have discrimination addressed in the same way and to the same timescales as in public-sector schemes across the rest of the UK.”
“SPPS, PPS 21 and the PAN that was withdrawn are key parts of our planning system. The Minister will be aware of the review of the 2011 Planning Act. Will she update us on when the outcome of that will arrive? Will the Minister commit to the House to deal with statutory consultees and their delays in coming back, because they are inhibiting economic growth in Northern Ireland and resulting in a planning system that is not fit for purpose?”
“At the outset, I declare that I am the event director for Crawfordsburn Country Park parkrun. I thank the Minister for her response. Does the Minister agree that the physical and mental health benefits of participating in parkrun events on a Saturday morning are immense? Following on from that, does the Minister recognise the challenges in getting funding for new events? Will she join me in taking part in a parkrun on a Saturday or, failing that, meet the organisers and me to see how we can give further support?”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the Chamber to answer questions on the monitoring round. There are a number of questions, particularly in relation to Northern Ireland Water and the bid that was not met. <BR /> <BR />As has been outlined, there are still millions of pounds unspent of conventional capital funding and financial transactions capital. What more is being done by the Minister and his Department to ensure that we can invest, using that capital money, this year and in the next financial year, when it is likely that more funds will be allocated to Northern Ireland?”
“That is on the record. <BR /> <BR />So, there are clear issues with the PAN and the confusion that it caused. However, Members also need to understand the context, and we need to grasp the reasons why the PAN was issued. That the case for change was not made adequately enough is a key issue of concern. We may have this debate today, and we may criticise the Minister, but, however good that may feel, it will not resolve an awful lot. Perhaps we will learn lessons, but we will have to come back and address the same issue. If we do not, future generations will not forgive us: this was a planning process that was meant to safeguard the environment.”
“Concerns were raised about the PAN, and it is important that they are noted and given an airing here today, particularly about the financing of new homes and the clause on health and safety. <BR /> <BR />On 1 June 2010, when issuing PPS 21, the then Minister of the Environment, Edwin Poots, came to this place, and Hansard records him as saying:”
“The planning function in the Department needs to change. There are systemic faults in Northern Ireland's planning system. In the first quarter of 2021-22, the average processing time for major applications was 53·6 weeks, compared with a target of 30 weeks. Some regionally significant applications have been waiting for over 10 years for a determination. Hagan Homes recently announced that it is pulling out of Northern Ireland because of the delays in our planning system. <BR /> <BR />I hope that the review of the Planning Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 will deliver action and that the forthcoming Northern Ireland Audit Office report will be a useful contribution. However, change is required. Frankly, planning issues and the reform of the planning function need to be a higher priority.”
“I am clear that the Department, by issuing a PAN but then issuing that note, demonstrates a conflict in its desire to be able to deal with the issues around this. Let me be clear: we will come back to this. There is a clear issue with how PPS 21 is being interpreted by district councils, so another planning advice notice will be needed. Hopefully, however, the lessons that can be learned about what happened in this case can shape how we go forward.”
“The Department needs to learn lessons about making the case for change and why the planning advice notice was issued. The way in which we have reached this situation today, with the withdrawal of the PAN on Friday, has, in my view, undermined the case for PPS 21. A letter from the Minister on 24 September stated that, while the PAN had been issued:”
“Planning and associated area plans, policies and restrictions are in place for the right reasons: to protect the environment. PPS 21 was brought forward in the context of PPS 14, and political consensus was reached on PPS 21. You can read the debate in Hansard. My analysis, and other analysis that you can see, is that there have been concerns about how PPS 21 has been implemented over the last number of years. However, today, I come to the Assembly to make it clear that the evidence base and the case for action should have been more clearly outlined by the Department. Correspondence from the Rural Community Network in my file states that it:”
“Whilst actions are being taken in relation to that situation and the "bungalow blight", as it has been called, in Donegal, it is, unfortunately, in my view, too late.”
“in this case. It is regrettable that we are in the situation that we are in today, but hopefully the debate can be constructive in shaping the way forward. The Alliance Party comes to the debate as a clear supporter of PPS 21, as other parties were when it was brought forward. It is important that the SPPS be upheld, and all it takes is a trip round Donegal to see why.”
“I wish to cover a lot in the next five minutes, so I will try to rush through this. A lot has changed since the motion was tabled, given the Minister's statement on Friday evening that:”
“— issue, but it also affects other parties. I urge Members to consider the amendment and the motion today.”
“We can have negotiation processes, different deals and all the rest of it, but we need to come to the Chamber in the spirit of wanting to treat each other equally and being able to work together. That is crucial. I make that point alongside what we propose today. <BR /> <BR />Dolores Kelly from the SDLP made a point about the Minister of Justice. In 2011, when that post was up for election, it was part of the d'Hondt mechanism, and there was a cross-community vote to elect the Justice Minister. It is for the House to decide the way forward on that, but that was a process that we agreed in the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />I have already covered Jim's support for voluntary coalition and the need for us to consider a way forward in that regard. <BR /> <BR />Lastly, I will touch on some of the points that Gerry Carroll made.”
“Robbie Butler, who is not in the Chamber at the moment, wanted examples of how others are not treated equally. Since these institutions came back in January 2020, 11 cross-community votes have been held in the Chamber. Most were on Budget Bills, because that is a requirement. When those votes occur, my colleagues and I vote, but our votes do not count unless cross-community consent is achieved. That is not right. It is important that those votes are counted. <BR /> <BR />John O'Dowd made a point about equality and power-sharing. We can have all the structures that we want, and we can, as a result of the motion, reform all of the structures here. I strongly make the case for that, because we need good, fit-for-purpose structures. However, we also need to come to those structures in the spirit of partnership, power-sharing and respect.”
“<BR /> <BR />A comment made about the institutions was that Governments need to be held to account and be able to be held accountable. Obviously, there has to be consideration in the AERC on the issue of designations. I understand that they are considering the election of FM and DFM, but there also has to be consideration in due course of mandatory coalition and the benefits of voluntary coalition.”
“Thank you. It is funny how debates sometimes turn to the Spice Girls, but maybe it would be better if they did that a bit more often in this place. <BR /> <BR />The changes to the process for the election of the First Minister that were made in the St Andrews Agreement were done purely for electoral benefit. We need to be able to address that, because we cannot continue with the constant instability in our institutions. We are very clear in the Alliance Party that we want the First Minister and the deputy First Minister — joint First Ministers, more like — to be elected beyond the designation system, and, strangely enough, there is some consensus emerging. We do not agree with mandatory coalition: we support a voluntary coalition and also collective responsibility, which is an element that has been lacking in these institutions.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will speak to some elements of what the SDLP referred to in its amendment in terms of going back to the factory settings of the Good Friday Agreement. I do not want to go back in Northern Ireland, I want to go forward. That is very clear, so when I see comments about wanting us to go back to 1998, I do not want to go there. It was not a great place, to be honest. I want us to go forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will not be able to go through all of the Members' contributions, as the debate was extensive. Paul Frew, in his contribution, made the case for reform. I agree with him that there is a need for reform, and one clear area of reform is in relation to the St Andrews Agreement. We are living with a situation where, day by day, there is a debate about who will hold the posts of First Minister and deputy First Minister, when in reality it is a joint office. We have been clear, as a party, that the posts should both be referred to as joint First Ministers. The St Andrews Agreement unpicked some elements of the Good Friday Agreement, and we are now living with the consequences of that.”
“It is important that that work is done by the end of the mandate and that change is delivered. We also think — this speaks to the amendment — that the UK Government should legislate on this issue. There is little point in the AERC debating the issue and the House potentially coming to a consensus on it, but then no progress. People want to see action on this. <BR /> <BR />That brings me to summarising some elements of the debate. Opening the debate, Kellie Armstrong said that we cannot be kicking the can down the road. If kicking the can down the road was an event at the Olympic Games, the Northern Ireland Assembly would win it. We need to be able to complete this work by the end of the mandate and give decisive leadership on it. As outlined by Kellie, where there is a will there is a way. We can do things here. We can change things.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I understand the point that he is making. Many people in society in Northern Ireland identify as many different things: unionist, nationalist, republican, loyalist, gay, Northern Irish or whatever. That is fine, and it is really important that people are able to have those identities and freely express them. The issue is that, when you are elected by the people and come in here, there is a legal requirement for you to designate and for the voting system to be based on those identities. That is the issue that we have with how the Chamber works and how every single person's vote does not count fairly and equally within it. <BR /> <BR />The amendment that we tabled acknowledges that the AERC is dealing with the matter. We received a letter from the Committee at the end of last week.”
“On being installed as an MLA, which was a great privilege, the first thing that I was asked to do was designate. You are not asked to do that in any other job. Normally, you are asked your name, you get your staff pass and you get shown around the building, but here you have to put down whether you are nationalist, unionist or other.”
“The reality is that not all votes are treated equally in the Chamber. Yes, votes on this motion will count equally, but when there are cross-community votes, for example on the Budget or when a petition of concern is tabled, my vote does not count the same as others', because cross-community consent is required for those things to pass. That is not right. <BR /> <BR />The system also ingrains deadlock and perpetrates division. We have to look only at how the institutions work to see that: the process of getting something onto the Executive agenda to get things through is very slow. People outside are frustrated with that. They want government to deliver for them. The thing that sticks with me is from when my colleague Stephen Farry was elected as MP for North Down.”
“However, the rules of the Good Friday Agreement and of these institutions have not been updated to reflect the new, modern society. It is not just Northern Ireland that has these issues. I remember visiting Sarajevo about three years ago and meeting LGBT organisations in Bosnia and Herzegovina. As a result of being a post-conflict society, they live with the same structures, which very much embed division and inhibit decision-making. They are a community that wants to be heard and to have institutions that reflect the modern society that is evolving in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I want us to do that today. If not today, when? We need change. <BR /> <BR />It seems to me that, in many aspects of this place, the institutions have been stuck in analogue and are yet to move to digital, while the rest of society has.”
“I remember the Troubles and issues that occurred, probably a year before that.”
“It was a very different society and a different time in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I supported the Good Friday Agreement, and I still do. I was proud to campaign for it, and I was glad to see the yes vote having such a high majority. There were certain aspects of the Good Friday Agreement that all of us supported; on others, we had concerns. Some of us were on the other side of the debate, and we argued those points. Seeing Section 75 included in the Good Friday Agreement was a monumental change for me, as a gay man living in Derry in 1998. Public policy was changing to embed equality of opportunity in the public sphere. It was the first time that that had come on the horizon, and I had hope for the future. I realise that the institutions that were established reflected the time and the peace process that we were living in.”
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. In winding on the motion and the amendment, I will seek to do two things: one is to make our case for the motion and amendment, and the other is to reflect on the debate, which was, in my view, good-natured until a short while ago. <BR /> <BR />The voting designations and the structures within the Northern Ireland Assembly are based on a society that was very different from the one in which we live today. Let us recall what life was like, back in 1998. 'Titanic' was released in the cinemas; Google was founded; Britney Spears issued her debut single; Geri left the Spice Girls; and, most importantly for me, there were very few legal protections for LGBT people in Northern Ireland. There were no civil partnerships, never mind equal marriage. There was no equal age of consent.”
“Will the Member agree that there were multiple occasions in the House of Commons when alternatives were offered to the DUP for Brexit, particularly on EFTA? All of those alternatives were rejected.”