Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“It is absolutely key that we do that consultation and engagement so that whatever we do going forward is fit for purpose. On the future rural affairs policy, I will meet officials again next Monday, and, the next day, I will engage in a process of co-design with practitioners from community development in rural areas. It is absolutely key not only that we do that and target it to those most in need but that we shape the future policy direction in conjunction with local communities. <BR /> <BR />I am very happy to consider your invitation and to engage with communities on this, because we need to ensure that policy works for people in rural areas.”
“<BR /> <BR />Looking ahead, as the TRPSI framework has been in place for over eight years, my Department commissioned an independent review to examine how effectively it has been implemented. The review is engaging with a range of stakeholders, including public authorities and rural community organisations, on addressing poverty and social isolation in rural areas. The review is due to report back in early 2025. The review will help to inform DAERA’s future policy direction, building on the collaboration and partnership working that underpins TRPSI. It will reflect that all Departments have responsibility for exercising their functions in rural and urban areas, and I plan to develop for consultation a new evidence-based rural policy next year.”
“Despite the cessation of the rural development programme post EU exit, I would like to reassure you that my Department continues to invest in and support our rural communities through a range of initiatives, including the tackling rural poverty and social isolation programme. Through TRPSI, my Department has invested £54·58 million across a range of initiatives aimed at tackling those issues in rural areas since 2016. That includes the rural micro capital grant scheme, which launched recently. Grants of £1·5 million have been made to over 900 voluntary and community organisations. In addition, I was pleased to renew our support for Rural Support. The charity was recently awarded a three-year funding contract.”
“I have consistently said on the record that I am not into blame games because it does not get us anywhere. I am also on the record commenting on the statistics on the causations of poor water quality, and about a quarter of that is due to waste water infrastructure. We need to do a lot more in relation to that because, whilst farmers are playing their part, Northern Ireland Water needs to step up to the game.”
“I am very aware of the impact of sewage pollution on our rivers, lakes and loughs in Northern Ireland. I do not think that it is acceptable for us to be pumping sewage into those waterbodies. That needs to be addressed, because it has an impact on our environment. That is why I will continue to support John O'Dowd in his call for investment in waste water infrastructure. We cannot continue with this situation, because it is damaging our environment and holding back economic development and housebuilding. I am very aware of the concerns about the impact on Lough Foyle. I have been assured, from a public health perspective, about the safety of drinking water, but let us be clear: the impact on our environment is severe, not just in the area that the Member represents but across Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for his question. First of all, I am glad that we have got the environmental improvement plan agreed and published. I run marathons and, sometimes, getting things through the Executive is a bit more difficult than completing a marathon, but you train harder and succeed, and I am glad that we got that plan approved. <BR /> <BR />As the Member knows, prosecutions of Northern Ireland Water do occur, but we also have the statement of regulatory principles and intent (SORPI) regime associated with that, and I am on the record as saying that that is not fit for purpose. If the Member wants statistics on previous prosecutions of Northern Ireland Water by the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, I am happy to address that in writing or through Assembly questions.”
“The river basin management plan will contain a programme of measures that set out the actions required to protect and improve all waterbodies and will require collective action across government, the public and private sectors and wider society. <BR /> <BR />Although I have had a number of conversations with Infrastructure Minister, John O'Dowd, I have not yet met the Minister on this specific issue. As the Member will appreciate, there are many areas of concern in Northern Ireland with regard to water quality and sewage pollution.”
“The River Foyle, as part of the wider Lough Foyle catchment, is subject to the same routine monitoring and assessment of water quality as all other waterbodies in Northern Ireland. Reports of pollution are investigated by the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) and the Loughs Agency, with enforcement action undertaken in line with existing policy. <BR /> <BR />The recently approved environmental improvement plan lays out my commitment to improving water quality in Northern Ireland. That draft plan contains the requirement to publish a third cycle of the river basin management plan for the period 2021-27, taking an integrated approach to the protection, improvement and sustainable use of the water environment.”
“This is one of the packages of measures that we are looking at as part of the future farm support development programme. We need to be able to encourage more people into the industry. My vision is that, in time, we will have a situation where more people want to get into the industry than there is availability. There is one key issue around this, which is about land use and land use management. We want to be able to encourage people to pass land through the generations. That is something that we are going to explore in the time ahead.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Often, in Northern Ireland, you are talking about family farms and businesses, and I take that seriously. That is why we are rolling out packages and measures in the future farm support programme. The focus of that is on building resilience in the industry, with the complete guiding aim of sustainable productivity, because that is where we are on that. We are engaging with people as we roll out those packages and measures, but, in my role as Minister, I am determined to deliver a strong future for agriculture in Northern Ireland. That means having a situation in which environmental and economic sustainability go hand in hand. It is critical that we get to that. Previous policy was about favouring intensification, but we are clearly focused on sustainable productivity now.”
“I am aware of the issues that the Member has outlined about the closed period. I will be honest with him: given the current situation with water quality in Northern Ireland, I cannot move towards changing that closed period and would not have credibility with others in society if I were to change it. However, I outlined the interventions to Members, and, if we are able to take action on the better management of slurry, options will be available to us. At the moment, I cannot look at changing that. I am being honest with you.”
“We will announce some stuff in the time ahead on the sustainable utilisation of slurry. From engagement with the Ulster Farmers' Union and AFBI, I know that they are keen to see us roll that out at pace. That is one action that we are taking. The other action relates to low-emissions slurry spreading equipment (LESSE) and how we can incentivise its uptake. There are interventions that we can make. <BR /> <BR />I also understand the concerns about planning and ammonia. That is one of the issues about which farmers have been coming to me. They want to get better ways of managing it, so I have convened a ministerial round-table so that we can work through those issues.”
“We all know that water quality in Northern Ireland is a significant concern, and the Office for Environmental Protection has issued comments on that. There is an Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI) report on water quality that I will share with the Member. Approximately a quarter of the issues related to poor water quality can be attributed to the waste water infrastructure; about 12% can be attributed to septic tanks; and 60-odd per cent can be attributed to agricultural run-off. <BR /> <BR />We are doing further research on the specific issues in Lough Neagh, but it is my understanding that a good element of that relates to diffuse pollution. We need to find ways to tackle that. That is why we are taking forward a measures on the management of slurry that will be consulted on as part of the nutrient action programme.”
“I am cognisant of the developments that have taken place in England, and I will make announcements further to those. <BR /> <BR />Let me be clear in concluding: I take the issue very seriously. It is important that whatever we do not only is guided by evidence and science but takes into account the impact that it has on farmers across Northern Ireland.”
“The issue of bovine TB is serious and causes me concern, not primarily in a financial sense, although it is a real factor in the pressures on my Department. The concern that I have is about the mental health impact that it has on farmers. A TB breakdown has a significant impact on a family business, so we need to take action. I am meeting Minister McConalogue on Friday in Dublin to discuss what they are doing and what we are looking to undertake. <BR /> <BR />When the new Chief Veterinary Officer, Brian Dooher, took up office in April, I commissioned him to undertake a quick review of where we are on the issue. We are approaching a point in the next number of months, hopefully in October or November, where we will announce the way forward.”
“I thank the Member for his question. That report has been received, and I have read it. We have shared it with former members of the TB Eradication Partnership (TBEP), as far as I am aware. I will double-check whether they have received it. I am happy to share it with the AERA Committee, if that would be appropriate and people would be happy for me to share it in that way. I am happy for it to be shared.”
“I will. That is an important issue. Unfortunately, a number of my friends took their own lives. In some cases, that was due to societal attitudes in Northern Ireland towards LGBT people. It is important that we send out a message from this place that you are not alone and that you should reach out and speak to people to seek support.”
“<BR /> <BR />My Department also has a long-standing funding relationship with the Young Farmers' Clubs of Ulster through which it promotes good health and well-being for young people in rural areas of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Finally, the College of Agriculture, Food and Rural Enterprise (CAFRE) provides a student support service that is accessible to all learners and includes a focus on health and well-being.”
“<BR /> <BR />Further to that initiative, Rural Support, a charity that is also funded through the TRPSI programme, has commenced a go-to resource for farmers and their families in rural Northern Ireland when they have a personal and/or farm business-related crisis. Rural Support provides a range of programmes and services for farmers and farm family members in support of their farm business and personal well-being. Its objective is to reduce emotional distress and help alleviate poor mental health triggers, which it can measure through use of the well-established Warwick-Edinburgh Mental Wellbeing Scale, with onward referrals being made to the appropriate support services as required.”
“I thank the Member for his important question. The tackling rural poverty and social isolation framework, otherwise known as the "TRPSI framework", has been in operation since 2016. It includes initiatives that address loneliness and improve physical and mental health and well-being. The farm families health checks programme, in conjunction with the Public Health Agency and the Northern Health and Social Care Trust, provides a comprehensive physical and mental health screening and advice service to farmers who visit livestock markets and rural people who attend a range of community events across Northern Ireland that the screening vehicle attends annually. Where necessary, referrals are then made to general practitioners or appropriate support services.”
“If we want to improve water and air quality and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, we need to fund and support agri-food to travel that journey, and that is absolutely key for me. I have engaged with my Scottish and Welsh counterparts on that recently, and I will engage with the Secretary of State on it in London next week.”
“We have earmarked funding. The total earmarked funding, which includes agriculture and fisheries, is about £330 million, and that is largely resource funding. I am making the case that we should have separate capital funding. Also, I have made the case that the earmarked funding, which was guaranteed until the end of March 2025, following our departure from the EU, should be indexed in line with inflation going forward. It is critical that that happen. <BR /> <BR />I have a concern about that earmarked funding. The Member will have read media reports last week about the funding in DEFRA that is earmarked for England and the potential for that to be reduced. I am concerned about how that could affect Northern Ireland, and I will make strong representations to that effect.”
“I agree 100%, and that is what we need to do. I am passionate about a just transition in agriculture. We need to ensure that the work that we carry out to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and reach net zero will be fair and that we support people on that journey. That is why we need to provide those incentives and support. The developments that the Member mentioned will be useful in making the case to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I have made the case in writing, and I will make it in person next week.”
“I work closely with the Department for the Economy on the small business research initiative. I had a meeting with Conor Murphy yesterday. We work together closely in those areas and share a common desire to reach net zero in a just and fair manner. A good bit of that sits with me to take forward, and I will make announcements soon about phase 2 of the small business research initiative on the sustainable utilisation of slurry. We need to do a lot on water quality. A better way to manage slurry and manure is critical to that, and I will talk a lot about it over the rest of the mandate.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will bring the draft green growth strategy to the Executive for endorsement very soon, and a just transition is a core part of that. I am keen that, as we travel the road to net zero, it is just and fair. It is absolutely key that we do that. That is where our economy needs to be as well when it comes to looking after the most vulnerable and ensuring equality.”
“There are a number of issues around that. We will start consultation soon on the regulations that will establish the just transition commission. We will then make the regulations and establish the commission next year. That is important. <BR /> <BR />Another issue is the just transition fund for agriculture. As I outlined earlier in this Question Time, I have made the case to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs that there should be a separate and additional capital fund for Northern Ireland that would be the just transition fund for agriculture. That would be an invest-to-save measure, in that it would enable us not only to drive down greenhouse gas emissions but to deal with the air quality, ammonia and water quality issues that we have talked about today. A lot needs to be done in that space.”
“Whilst I have no immediate plans to review the Act, I wish to engage with relevant stakeholders in the time ahead on future animal welfare policy and legislation. The suitability and capability of all legislation, including that Act, is something that I am willing to consider as and when evidence for change is presented as part of that stakeholder engagement.”
“The Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011 is the foundation on which statutory bodies, including councils, the PSNI and my Department, carry out their duties to improve animal welfare. It is robust legislation that provides a range of powers for dealing with animal welfare cases, including being proactive in dealing with cases in order to prevent unnecessary suffering, and tough fines and penalties for serious animal welfare offences. The 2011 Act is on a par with animal welfare legislation in the rest of the UK.”
“The review and consultation on fines and penalties associated with environmental crime is really important. It will cover waste crime, because I am concerned about that. Officials are working on taking that forward, and when we launch the consultation, I encourage everyone to respond to it.”
“There is a commitment from me to address the issue within the financial resources that are available to me. That is the challenge, because, as the Member knows, the cost of remediation could be substantial. I am glad that the Programme for Government was launched for consultation yesterday, and I encourage all in the House and in Northern Ireland to give feedback on it. We also have to be realistic in the Programme for Government about what we can achieve in a reduced mandate, however. We lost two years of this mandate as a result of the House's not sitting, and we are now trying to play catch-up on the issues that need to be addressed, and Mobuoy is one of those issues.”
“What occurred in the past at Mobuoy is a complete disgrace. Although I will continue to pursue the issue of the "polluter pays principle", what is happening is that the public sector and the people of Northern Ireland are having to pick up the tab for looking at remediation, and that is not lost on me. I am therefore happy to meet you and others, because I know that it is a key issue for not just the people of Derry/Londonderry but Northern Ireland more widely.”
“<BR /> <BR />The size and complexity of the Mobuoy site mean that its remediation will not be a quick fix and will be subject to affordability considerations in the context of the constraints on public-sector finances. It is vital that all interested parties have the opportunity to comment on the draft strategy. There is no agreed preferred option, nor will there be until a consultation has been completed and responses carefully considered. <BR /> <BR />The NIEA continues to implement a comprehensive environmental monitoring programme at the site, and regular water quality reports are published, and therefore freely available, on the DAERA website. To date, I am advised that there has been no adverse impact on the safety of drinking water being supplied from the River Faughan.”
“My Department is continuing to progress work in relation to monitoring the site, pursuing a criminal justice outcome against the former operators and determining the best approach for remediation through an industry standard process. A draft remediation strategy has been developed, in line with industry standards, for the long-term remediation of the Mobuoy site. My officials have published the Mobuoy Road remediation options appraisal report on the DAERA website in order to support the completion of the remediation strategy. As part of next steps, officials are working through an industry standard process, following land contamination risk-management guidance. That includes consultation with the public to seek their views on a draft remediation strategy for the Mobuoy site.”
“but it is an important issue. One of the main issues for which Harvey Milk got elected as the first openly gay parliamentarian in America was dog fouling. All politics is local. I am happy to consider the issue if the Member writes to me. I have no immediate plans for it, but if the Member articulates a strong case, I am prepared to give it a strong hearing.”
“It is a bit of a pivot from single-use plastics”
“My Department introduced new carrier bag legislation in April 2022, which increased the carrier bag levy charge from 5p to 25p and extended the scope to include all new carrier bags with a retail price of £5 or less. The primary objective remains to protect our environment by influencing consumer behaviour and promoting a significant reduction in the use of single-use plastic items. I will consider all options to find the most suitable way to help reduce the impact of single-use plastic items on our environment.”
“Single-use drinks containers must have a lid that remains attached, and other products containing plastic, such as sanitary and tobacco products, should have clear labelling of appropriate disposal. My officials will also progress a plan to reduce the consumption of single-use cups and food containers. <BR /> <BR />My Department is also taking a wide range of further actions to tackle the scourge of plastic pollution, including working to bring forward regulations to ban the sale and supply of single-use vapes and wet wipes containing plastic.”
“I am committed to taking action to restrict the consumption of a range of single-use plastic products where sustainable alternatives are easily available and affordable. This includes transposing the single-use plastics directive. The primary objective of the single-use plastics directive is to protect our environment. Single-use plastic products are a wasteful use of resources, being used only once before being discarded and impacting on our marine and natural environment. The introduction of these regulations will reduce the volume and impact of plastic products on our environment. <BR /> <BR />Officials are working to progress legislation that will introduce restrictions on the most commonly littered single-use plastic items, such as straws and cutlery.”
“I will write to the Member with a full breakdown of the spend, but the cost of repairing and remedying the damage in Lough Neagh is way in excess of what it would have been if the situation had not been allowed to unfold in the first place.”
“We are working through that with officials so that I can give you a correct answer. I have some estimates that I have worked out myself, but I want to engage with officials so that I can give you a substantial response. A significant range of actions need to be taken. The investment required in waste water infrastructure is significant, as are the interventions around agriculture. Some of that is mainstreamed as part of agricultural practice, so I want to make sure that I give you a correct figure. This year, I have essentially reallocated resources within my Department towards Lough Neagh and the interventions that are required.”
“It is relevant to Lough Neagh because the catchment area of Lough Neagh is substantial, and it is important that we take significant environmental action to address those issues. The environmental improvement plan is not just a statutory obligation; it is a tool to improve our environment.”
“The environmental improvement plan will be Northern Ireland's first environment strategy. There was a legal obligation for that to be adopted in July 2023. After taking office in February, I brought that plan to the Executive in March, and I will continue to engage with Executive colleagues to secure its adoption. <BR /> <BR />Subsequent to my bringing the paper to the Executive in March, the Office for Environmental Protection commenced an investigation as a result of the failure to adopt the environmental improvement plan. Legal challenges have also been lodged with my Department around that. I will continue to engage with Executive colleagues in relation to it.”
“I will be meeting fishers from Lough Neagh tomorrow around that. I am very aware of the challenges around inland fisheries in Lough Neagh and the pressures that they have been under. I have engaged with officials. There are a number of issues arising from that, particularly around availability of funding and the recurrent nature of any support that will be required, but I have been exploring it with officials, and tomorrow, I will be engaging with people who are directly affected by it.”
“Following the Executive’s approval of the Lough Neagh report and action plan on 18 July, the focus has turned to implementation of the actions. Good progress has been made on a number of the actions, including, for example, the development of a Lough Neagh science platform, the launch of two small business research initiatives and the implementation of the inter-agency blue-green algae monitoring protocol. While the action plan offers a comprehensive approach, it acknowledges that achieving substantial recovery will take many years due to the complex nature of the issues at Lough Neagh. There is a significant amount of work to do, alongside our stakeholders, which will take both time and resources. I am firmly committed to ensuring the implementation of the action plan as swiftly as possible.”
“Crucially, I will need resource and funding to do that, because it requires officials to consult and engage on legislation and to bring it to the Chamber. My Department's budget for next year will be absolutely crucial, because, if I do not get a settlement that is fair and just to allow me to do that, unfortunately, we will not be able to do the work that we need to do around tackling animal cruelty.”
“I enjoyed my day in Larne, and I was up in Glenarm as well. It is a great constituency to visit. <BR /> <BR />The Paws for Thought initiative is a key intervention, and we are all working together to tackle smuggling. I will highlight that, as part of that initiative, we will communicate with the general public to make them understand that they have a role to play in not being part of it and in being conscious that, when they buy pups and kittens, they are aware of where they came from and have assured themselves in that regard. <BR /> <BR />One last thing that I will say in response to the Member's question is that I want to bring in a good bit of legislation and policy around animal welfare so that we can tackle animal cruelty.”
“I was in Larne last week to see the Paws for Thought initiative, which is essentially about tackling puppy smuggling. It is about seeing all those different bodies coming together to be able to deal with something that is insidious and wrong. That is why it is key that councils, HMRC, the police and my Department come together around the issues. Stakeholders, such as animal welfare charities, have a crucial role to play. That is why I want to sit down with them to discuss the next steps in policy and legislation. I want to work with people on those issues to stamp out animal cruelty in Northern Ireland.”
“On the second question, I am happy for you to send me through details of that. We will consider that based on diary availability. <BR /> <BR />On the first question, it is for councils in Northern Ireland to enforce that. If there are concerns around that, I am happy for the Member to write to me raising those concerns. We do seek to work in partnership with councils, and the importance of this area means that it is about working together.”
“My officials are developing options for my consideration, and I will carefully consider all options and then decide on the best one for appropriately regulating the third-party sale of pups and kittens in Northern Ireland. Any proposals that I am minded to introduce will be subject to public consultation. I am also keen to engage with the animal welfare sector, and I intend to facilitate discussions with key stakeholders in the time ahead as I determine the best course of action in implementing Lucy's law.”
“I thank the Member for her question. When we are designing legislation and policy around animal welfare, we need to be very conscious of the issue that she has outlined about people's ability to navigate the legislation and create loopholes around it all. That is why it is important that, when we are developing it, we do it correctly. <BR /> <BR />On Lucy's law, I am conscious that Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK that is yet to introduce legislation to regulate the third-party sale of pups and kittens. Therefore, I would like to confirm that it remains my intention to deliver a version of Lucy's law in Northern Ireland within the lifetime of this Assembly.”