Andrew Muir
North Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. As Minister, I am grateful to the Chair of the Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and to Members from all sides of the Chamber for their consideration of the Bill and their contributions to the debate, which have been valuable and useful.”
“I will write to you with regard to your query. <BR /> <BR />The other issue, as I said, is reporting pollution incidents so that they can be effectively investigated. There is a duty on everyone to do that promptly.”
“Aquaculture provides real economic opportunities, and the Bill will help ensure that those opportunities are realised responsibly without compromising the environment. Importantly, the Bill includes transitional provisions so that existing licences can continue seamlessly as aquaculture licences, with their conditions unchanged.”
“That is not about being punitive for its own sake; it is about ensuring that the legal framework reflects the true value of our natural resources and the importance of protecting them for future generations.”
“<BR /> <BR />On strengthening the regulation of inland waters, the Bill modernises long-standing powers under the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966, ensuring that they are fit for today's environmental and industry challenges. That matters because fisheries management today goes far beyond simply catching fish.”
“<BR /> <BR />A full regulatory impact assessment of the financial impact has been completed. It concluded that the Bill does not introduce significant new financial burdens and that any costs are outweighed by the long-term benefits.”
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“Whilst I accept that there are undoubtedly challenges — I am aware of them — I believe that the outlook for agriculture is positive and that young people and new entrants will continue to be attracted to it. The proposal for guaranteed farm-gate prices, put forward in the article referenced in the question, is not feasible and would not be contemplated for other sectors of a market economy. It would make our exports uncompetitive, which, for a sector dependent upon exports, would be disastrous. Furthermore, to prevent our domestic production being replaced by imports, economic controls on food imports from GB, the EU and the rest of the world would be required. That would be very controversial, if not without the remit of the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />My Department provides extensive support to the farming sector.”
“At the beginning of this Question Time, I pay tribute to Jennifer Fulton following her sad passing on Sunday 5 May. Jennifer had a long and successful career, including as chief executive of Ulster Wildlife. She was an exceptional person and will be forever missed. My thoughts and prayers go to Norman, Sarah, Peter and James and her wider family, friends and colleagues. I think I speak for everyone in the House in saying that she leaves a powerful legacy. Our thoughts are with everyone affected by her sad passing. <BR /> <BR />I thank Mr Beattie for his question. I recognise the challenges that the agricultural sector faces, particularly in dealing with volatility in prices, incomes and the present weather conditions. However, I do not agree with the premise of the report that the farming sector is on the verge of collapse.”
“<BR /> <BR />I recognise the concerns about the emergency department at the Ulster Hospital, and I hope that Alex's wife has a speedy recovery. I know the pressures around this, but the solution is not to oppose change. It is to be able to face up to that and support people in their positions. I recognise that there are concerns around the consultation, but nothing is perfect in this. We could have been debating this for two years. We could have had a Health Minister in position to take a decision, but that was denied. It was denied by the DUP, Alex Easton and Jim Allister, so there is the responsibility when it comes to accountability issues with this. <BR /> <BR />I conclude by saying that we owe it to Health and Social Care to take the difficult decisions, show leadership and be able to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.”
“We owe it to them to take the difficult decisions, but we have not travelled the journey that we need to travel on transformation in Northern Ireland. When we go to the UK Government and argue for additional funding, our inability to do transformation in Northern Ireland is cast back at us, and rightly so, because the waiting lists in Northern Ireland are the longest in the whole of the United Kingdom, yet we are spending, arguably, the highest amount on health and social care. Therefore, we need to do transformation. We need to be able to take the difficult decisions. Members say that people were not happy about the position that we took, but I got involved in politics to take difficult decisions. It is easy to stand at the protest lines on these issues.”
“Sorry; I will just continue. <BR /> <BR />Some people will say, "But this was not Bengoa. It is not in line with No More Silos", but, in a meeting on 15 March 2023, the previous permanent secretary in Health confirmed to health spokespeople from all parties that the proposed change was in line with Bengoa and No More Silos. Whilst other people have contributed towards it, the people whom I will be guided by on the issues are doctors and medical experts. I have immense respect for the staff who work in Health and Social Care (HSC). It is an immensely challenging job. I have the utmost respect for them. I know them personally. They are family and friends. My mother worked in the NHS for decades. I will declare that, and I am proud of the service that she gave.”
“<BR /> <BR />The easiest thing that the Alliance Party could have done would be to join the protest lines and vote on the motions on the matter in the council, but we did not. People have to ask themselves why we did not. The easiest thing would have been to go with the flow and not have ourselves criticised in this Adjournment debate or in council. The reason is that we believe in transformation. If we cannot do transformation of that nature in an area that covers, essentially, the distance between Newtownards and Dundonald, which is approximately 5 miles, what hope do we have of achieving the true transformation that is required in health and social care? <BR />Some people will say —.”
“I speak in the Adjournment debate as an Alliance Party MLA for North Down. It is important that we are able to discuss the issue. We were not able to for two years, because the institutions were not sitting. It is not lost on me that the person who secured the Adjournment topic is one of the people who voted consistently against the restoration of the institutions, which would have allowed us to consider these matters. However, we are where we are now, and we are able to consider the matter in front of us. <BR /> <BR />I will be relatively brief because I do not want to delay Alex from his campaign launch in Bangor tonight. It is an important issue for the Assembly, and I recognise that the DUP has handed over its slot for the Adjournment debate to Alex.”
“That is the opportunity for Northern Ireland. I am confident that we can achieve that, because there is real community buy-in. We were in Donaghadee a few weeks ago, where the community actively sought grant funding to deliver a community orchard in the area. That is really positive.”
“Northern Ireland is one of the least forested areas in western Europe. The ultimate objective is to address that for two reasons: the first is the impact on the environment of that situation, and the second is our climate change obligations. Afforestation provides us with a real opportunity to deliver on our legal obligations around climate change. Forested areas are extremely popular. I am cognisant that a number of councils have taken on lease agreements with the Forest Service for amenities. Those places are packed, with many people coming to them. There are great opportunities in that regard. We can see that today in the number of questions about afforestation and tree-planting. People are keen to see that happen. I am keen to work with people on that. We need to be able to facilitate that in cooperation with landowners.”
“I have met farmers and the Ulster Farmers' Union, so, frankly, I do not know where that is coming from. I engage with people regularly and am well known as a listening Minister and one who is prepared to act. If you want that meeting, I can arrange it this week.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I have had hundreds of meeting requests and am trying to accommodate them. It is important that I meet the Ulster Farmers' Union and other bodies associated with the TB strategy to discuss interventions that could be made on it. I am keen to facilitate that, and, if the Member wants to write to me, we can try to arrange it. <BR /> <BR />I meet the Ulster Farmers' Union regularly, and we discuss such issues. I am conscious that the TB issue needs action. That is why I have tasked the new Chief Veterinary Officer, Brian Dooher, with taking a fresh look at it. I am conscious that, because of budget pressures, time is not on our side, but I am keen to deal with it.”
“I recognise that there are difficult choices to be made across Departments and with budgets. I fully get that, but if we are going to make something a priority, we need to fund it.”
“We are all aware of the issues associated with Lough Neagh. We need funding for engagement and education on the causes of this, particularly on agricultural run-off. We also need to provide incentivisation and to put resources into enforcement. If we do not fund any of that, what do people expect will happen to Lough Neagh? The situation will be repeated. We need to fund those interventions and our waste water infrastructure. We cannot, on the one hand, bemoan the consequences of pollution in Lough Neagh and, on the other hand, not fund the interventions required to deal with the source of it. <BR /> <BR />We need to get real about the environment in Northern Ireland. We have a problem that we need to acknowledge and fund. That is absolutely fundamental for my Department.”
“<BR /> <BR />My concern with the Budget and what may be allocated to my Department is that I will potentially be doing less, rather than more. That would mean that actions on Lough Neagh would be paused, and that would be neither credible nor acceptable. We need to be able to invest in actions on Lough Neagh, and I am keen to make the point to Executive colleagues that, if we are to make Lough Neagh a priority, we need to fund it. <BR /> <BR />Another concern is that over half of my Department is funded through funding earmarked for agriculture support. I need staff to deliver it, but, without funding for my Department, we may struggle to distribute it. <BR /> <BR />Finally, it is important that compensation levels for bovine TB be funded. Otherwise, the Budget will force me into taking decisions that I do not wish to take.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I am conscious that decisions on the Budget that Northern Ireland faces will involve all Ministers making difficult choices. I will not shy away from those decisions, and I am not known for doing that. I am keen to ensure that, as an Executive, we are successful in setting a Budget. It is important that the Budget be a fair one and that it allow Departments to deliver on the expectations of and duties to the people of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the fact that, at their first meeting, the Executive set as a priority tackling the issues associated with Lough Neagh. Some Members have talked in the Chamber about issues such as water quality. Such issues are a priority for the public. They want to see action.”
“It is something I am keen on. I did not anticipate taking up this Ministry, but I now have responsibility for delivering the legislation. Dereliction in our town and city centres has a real impact because it does not help deliver regeneration; it delivers quite the opposite. The regeneration powers sit with the Department for Communities, and there needs to be a crossover, when the legislation is delivered, on how we can grant aid some of the engagements. It is key that we bring it forward, and I am conscious of the impact of not having the legislation. The legislation will be an enabler in tackling dereliction, not an entire solution, and there will be a crossover to the Department for Communities. Hopefully, it will provide hope for town and city centres that have been victims of dereliction.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I am keen to progress the Bill. It is ready to go, and I am waiting for the Executive to agree their legislative programme.”
“I entirely agree. When we see a decline, that points to a concern about our environment, and we should be very conscious of that. That is why I encourage initiatives that address those issues. The work across Northern Ireland on those matters is to be encouraged and is something my Department is keen to support.”
“My Department is responsible for three actions in the all-Ireland pollinator plan. My Department funds organisations such as Buglife and Butterfly Conservation to undertake actions to provide habitats for pollinators. My officials support and coordinate guidance publications to promote the all-Ireland pollinator action plan.”
“The regulations are unprecedented and are a movement in the devolved space. I am assured that they have been made to uphold our international obligations under the Windsor framework, but I am conscious of the practical challenges.”
“Apologies. I was trying to face Mr Allister and be polite, but I will speak into the microphone. <BR /> <BR />I am not aware of whether a direction has been issued. Perhaps I am not the person to ask. It is probably the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, because, when a direction is issued to officials in my Department, they are then reporting to that Secretary of State, and that is the relationship. As set out in the guidance, there is a requirement for engagement with relevant Ministers, and I have made it clear that I wish to see those engagements occur monthly because of the operational challenges. <BR /> <BR />I will make your point about whether a direction is issued and whether the House receives communication to Steve Baker tomorrow, because it is important for democratic accountability.”
“It is under his remit, but Members asked me questions about it. I seek to participate, answer questions and engage with Members of the House on every matter that I can, but, if something is under the direction and control of the Secretary of State, I am impeded by that. I have outlined my concerns on multiple occasions to the UK Government, and I am meeting Steve Baker again tomorrow about those issues.”
“I thank the Member for his question. There was no formal consultation. The public were aware that regulations on the matter were being considered in, I think, September last year. On taking up office, I became aware that the issue was being considered again. There was reference to an element of it in the 'Safeguarding the Union' Command Paper. I met the Secretary of State and the Minister of State, Steve Baker, and I outlined my concerns about the issues. What has been brought forward is extremely challenging operationally, and I have outlined my concerns about the impact of that on multiple occasions to the UK Government. We saw that today during Question Time when I received a question about an issue that is under the direction and control of the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.”
“I would be delighted to do so. If the Member follows that up with my private office, hopefully, we will be able to schedule it.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I regularly receive correspondence on the subject. There is no formal departmental responsibility for it, but it is an increasing issue, especially for coastal communities in Northern Ireland. I saw that at first hand when Diane Forsythe took me to Kilkeel and I saw the cliffs and some of the areas affected there. It also affects other areas around Northern Ireland. I intend to meet the Minister for Infrastructure in the time ahead so that we can scope a way forward for the Executive on the issue. I understand the concerns around it, but I am also aware that funding is needed to accompany actions on it.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It forms a key part of the earmarked funding that we receive for agricultural support, alongside other measures that come together in relation to it. I have lobbied the UK Government strongly for future funding for Northern Ireland, and I have lobbied the Labour Party, in the event that it might form the next Government, because it is key that we are able to assist and enable our agricultural community to move forward. Climate change is a really big challenge for Northern Ireland, particularly for the agricultural sector, but, if we can give funding to tackling it, we can grasp opportunities and give sustainability to communities in Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The just transition commission is a key element of the climate change legislation that was passed democratically by the House in 2022. I am keen to see it in place, and I hope to have it in place by the end of this year. A key aspect is funding. A just transition fund is meant to come alongside the commission. It will comprise a number of pots of funding that will be brought together under one umbrella. It is key that we have just transition funding for Northern Ireland, because it will allow us to work on and deliver climate change with people. It is key that we address that. I have engaged with the UK Government and with the Labour Party on its future fiscal policy, because tackling climate change is an opportunity for Northern Ireland if it is funded correctly.”
“I do not want to unveil the strategy until it has been agreed by the Executive. It is a pathway to achieving many targets, including the one that the Member outlined. It is key that the Executive adopt the strategy soon so that we can set it out, because it is also an overarching strategy for how we deal with the issues associated with Lough Neagh. The catchment area for Lough Neagh is way beyond the bed and soil of the lough. We need to have a strategy and an action plan, and I hope that we can outline those soon.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I have had recent discussions with my Executive colleagues on the content of a draft environment strategy for Northern Ireland, otherwise known as an environmental improvement plan. I hope shortly to secure Executive agreement to the strategy, which is both ambitious and deliverable. Once agreement has been obtained — I hope that that will be very shortly — I will make a statement to the Assembly on a strategy that will be published as Northern Ireland's first environmental improvement plan and laid in the Assembly.”
“I am working with officials on the environmental governance review, because we need to have independent oversight in Northern Ireland. I am quite keen to look at that with officials in the time ahead. That would naturally be subject to consultation, and I look forward to the support of other parties in the House, which will be key to securing that.”
“I thank the Member for that question. The end of his question is my answer: I will commit to doing that so far as I am able. That was a commitment under New Decade, New Approach (NDNA). Conscious of that commitment, upon coming into office, I tasked officials to undertake an environmental governance review to see where we are sitting. We have the Office for Environmental Protection (OEP). We have a different landscape post-EU exit. We also have the question of how an independent environmental protection agency would be funded. If it is not independently funded, the question of whether that is a constraint on its work arises. <BR /> <BR />My party has a very strong commitment to an independent environmental protection agency.”
“The Budget settlement for my Department could go one of two ways. It could get us to a situation whereby we can protect our environment, have that engagement and enforcement and have something to be proud of in Northern Ireland, or it could get us to a situation where the Budget settlement is totally inadequate and we reduce the level of enforcement and engagement such that the scenes that have been occurring over the past number of years continue. I hope that the Executive will back my funding bid so that we can address water quality in Northern Ireland.”
“We need to carry out engagement and raise awareness of the impacts of agricultural practices and how they can result in pollution, and we need to look at enforcement. That will be key to the action plan that I intend to take forward on Lough Neagh.”
“My Department works strongly with the NI Environment Agency. It is an agency of my Department, and I engage regularly with its chief executive. The issue that the Member raised about Northern Ireland Water is of concern to me, and I intend to meet the Infrastructure Minister in the time ahead. We need investment so that we can invest in our waste water infrastructure. The result of not investing is the pollution incidents that we are outlining and the constraint on housing and economic development in Northern Ireland. We need to do something differently on the matter, because if we do not, we will continue to be outlining to the House the impacts of not investing in Northern Ireland Water. <BR /> <BR />There are probably two types of approach that we need to take to agricultural run-off.”
“That will enable us to better understand how the indicators fluctuate and to find out what their primary sources are by telling us whether they are from waste water or agriculture. That will allow us to further target measures to improve the quality of the Ballyholme bathing water. <BR /> <BR />There is more information on the incidents that have occurred over the past 10 years. I will write to the Member to set out the details of that. It is important that we not only know what has happened but chart a course to address it. We need to do something about agricultural run-off — quite a lot needs to be done there — while investing in our waste water infrastructure.”
“I agree that it is disappointing, and I am aware of the consequences of that pollution at Ballyholme beach, where people look to go swimming. It is not acceptable to see the pollution of our watercourses. As Minister, I want to take every action that I can to stop the pollution of our waterways and to see a stronger approach to enforcement on that. That will require funding for my Department. <BR /> <BR />There are two points to make on this. I have been engaging with my officials on the pollution at Ballyholme. My Department is collaborating with Northern Ireland Water and the Agri-Food and Biosciences Institute (AFBI) on enhancing monitoring at Ballyholme bathing water and the Cotton river during the coming bathing season by applying microbial source tracking during dry periods and heavy rainfall periods.”
“However, Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) costs were recovered in those cases.”
“I thank the Member for his question. It is something that we know closely as North Down representatives. One prosecution has been taken by my Department in relation to water pollution in the Cotton river over the past 10 years. That case related to an incident from an agricultural source, and the fine imposed by the court was £1,500. During that 10-year period, three incidents met the criteria for formal enforcement actions due to the impact on the environment. One was resolved by a cross-compliance penalty, which I am reviewing with the Department as a general policy area. No further action was possible in the remaining two incidences involving Northern Ireland Water infrastructure as the pollution was due to blockages in the system caused by third parties.”
“I thank the Member for her question. We lost democracy and accountability for two years in this place, and it is good to see that we are back and can answer questions on this issue. As this stage, it remains unclear how the EU CBAM will affect Northern Ireland stakeholders. The EU may approach the UK with a view to including CBAM within the scope of the Windsor framework. To date, however, no such approach has been made.”
“I am aware that there might be concerns about the impact on trade with the Republic of Ireland. At present, the impact of the EU CBAM on Northern Ireland companies exporting to the Republic of Ireland is not clear. My officials continue to work closely with their UK Government counterparts to develop an understanding of potential impacts in Northern Ireland. UK Government colleagues have committed to ensuring that my Department is kept updated as understanding develops. However, I do not have specific information on the potential impact to share with Members at this time. The UK Government have produced a summary of European Commission guidance on the EU CBAM for UK exporters. That is available on the UK Government website. I will write to the Member because the URL is extremely long.”
“To meet our obligations under climate change legislation and, more broadly, environmental policies, we need to do everything that we can to reduce emissions, and emissions trading schemes are key. <BR /> <BR />The UK emissions trading scheme applies to energy-intensive industry, electricity generation and aviation. In Northern Ireland, there are 17 industrial installations in the scheme, as well as two aviation operators. There are also six electricity generators that continue to participate in the EU ETS under the terms of the Windsor framework. That is to protect the operation of the all-Ireland single electricity market.”
“Those are three very detailed questions about a very technical area, and I will write to the Member to ensure that he gets a fulsome reply. I am aware of the concerns. Alignment between the UK and EU would resolve a lot of issues, and that is something that I would encourage. I know that businesses would encourage that, because there are environmental benefits associated with this, but there is uncertainty around these areas, and it is important that we remove uncertainty so that businesses have the confidence to invest.”
“A summary of the European Commission guidance on EU CBAM for UK exporters has been produced by the UK Government and is available at www.gov.uk.”
“It can only apply in Northern Ireland with the agreement of the UK and in line with the democratic safeguards of the Windsor framework. Consequently, as things stand, the EU CBAM should not impact on trade between Northern Ireland and GB. <BR /> <BR />The UK emissions trading scheme (ETS), of which Northern Ireland is an active and equal partner with the UK Government and other devolved Administrations, is a really effective carbon-reduction mechanism, helping us collectively to deliver a reduction in greenhouse gases and to meet our global commitments. Assigning a price to carbon emissions is a proven way to incentivise innovation and emissions reduction, and positive action taken by many industries and businesses in Northern Ireland will contribute to reducing their exposure to any external CBAM.”
“<BR /> <BR />On 18 December last year, the UK Government announced the intention to implement a UK CBAM, with effect from 1 January 2027, as part of their response to the 2023 consultation on potential carbon leakage mitigation measures. Feedback to this initial consultation highlighted the importance of alignment of the UK design scheme with similar mechanisms in other jurisdictions and questioned how it would integrate with the EU mechanism. <BR /> <BR />The UK Government have launched a further consultation, seeking views on the potential design of the mechanism. That remains open until 13 June. As set out in the UK Government Command Paper 'Safeguarding the Union", the EU CBAM cannot apply in Northern Ireland unless that is agreed by the UK.”
“I thank the Member for his question. My response is quite long and quite detailed. The intent of the EU carbon border adjustment mechanism (CBAM) is to assign a fair price to the carbon emitted during the production of carbon-intensive goods that are entering the EU and to encourage cleaner industrial production in non-EU countries. My officials are working closely with counterparts in the UK Government to develop an understanding of how the mechanism may affect relevant stakeholders in Northern Ireland. That is an ongoing process. As he may be aware, the EU CBAM will come into full operation on 1 January 2026, having been implemented on a transitional basis from 1 October 2023.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I will write back in more detail on where the evidence came from for that figure, but I am conscious that, in the climate change legislation, there are key targets to which tree cover is fundamental.”
“In environmental policy in Northern Ireland, getting the balance right is absolutely key and is something that I am very conscious of. I am also conscious of my obligations on afforestation under climate change legislation. We need to balance that and work with people, and I will not be found wanting in striking a correct balance on these issues. We will also be clear on our targets.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The participation of schools is a fantastic opportunity, and I am very keen to work with the Minister of Education on that. In North Down, there are many areas of opportunity. Only two weeks ago, I was in Hunts Park in Donaghadee, where a community orchard has been planted. That is an example of a community actively stepping forward and wanting to see tree planting. There are many opportunities here, and we need to incentivise and encourage people to undertake tree planting.”
“I thank the Member for her question. I am very conscious that Northern Ireland is one of the least-forested regions in the whole of Europe, but there are real opportunities to address that. Northern Ireland's woodland cover is low compared with other UK countries, and it includes many small native woodlands that are remnants of much more extensive past tree cover. Whilst all woodlands are important for biodiversity and protecting them is integral to efforts to mitigate climate change and promote nature recovery, tree planting to increase the size of existing woodlands and their connectivity through the landscape will contribute to their resilience and provide new habitats to support wildlife.”